End child food poverty

[chadders]

I struggle to get my head around this. Its 2021 we're in the midst of a pandemic, jobs are lost and yet a large number of MPs voted against providing free school meals to hungry children til easter. What a country we live in. Signed.

[chadders]

2020. Obvs. Long day.

[Chester Perry]

No doubt the government will be happy with this, but the number of small businesses stepping up to the challenge of feeding children through half term is thoroughly heart warming - just follow Rashford's twitter time line

https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford

[Colburn_Claret]

Plenty on here agreeing with the Tories that kids should be punished because their parents are struggling. Even if they're not struggling, and they're just useless or lazy.. then absolutely the best way to teach them a lesson is to make sure their kids go hungry.

All we heard for years was that you shouldn't hand out cash to the parents, they'll spend it on fags, booze and scratch cards. Then we hit a global pandemic, a huge recession and it's suggested by a nice young chap who's also a footballer that maybe we could help the poorest kids with some free meals. "Not a chance in hell, they chose to be poor!".

At least some true colours are being revealed now there's nowhere to hide. More honest, if nothing else.

If you've read the posts on here and come to that conclusion, i think you should try reading them again. This time with your eyes open.

[LAM]

I believe it’s a parents responsibility to feed their child. Most parents accept this, but are genuinely struggling, more so now than ever and especially those single parents. Its also clear that some are just poor parents with wrong priorities.

More than anything though, I believe every hungry child is blameless in this and any solution to feed them should be supported. Signed.

[claretonthecoast1882]

No doubt the government will be happy with this, but the number of small businesses stepping up to the challenge of feeding children through half term is thoroughly heart warming - just follow Rashford's twitter time line

https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford

Brilliant to see local businesses stepping in and helping out especially as they won't be getting the same revenue as normal.

Eventually the government will do a u-turn on this due to public pressure when had they done the right thing from the outset none of this would be needed.

[evensteadiereddie]

If you've read the posts on here and come to that conclusion, i think you should try reading them again. This time with your eyes open.

He's right, though. There are "plenty" of people on this board who, oddly, believe that the need for food banks and the existence of a large number of hungry kids in this country are self-inflicted problems.

He went on to say imply "some" of the responses on this thread show little or no compassion. Correct again.

Luckily, there seem to be more decent posters on here than not.

[TVC15]

If you've read the posts on here and come to that conclusion, i think you should try reading them again. This time with your eyes open.

So when people on the Antony Higginbotham thread say things like the below (I paraphrase)...what is it you suppose they mean ? These comments are hardly cryptic !

People are soft today and the sense of entitlement
They just need to get on with it and stop complaining
We did not complain when we were kids and poor
They can just make a pot of stew
Why don’t they buy a chest freezer
The parents can afford sky, expensive mobile phones etc
Etc

[Firthy]

The answer has to be food vouchers that can only be used by the recipients with ID. Then they can't be sold or used for alcohol or fags.

[AndrewJB]

So when people on the Antony Higginbotham thread say things like the below (I paraphrase)...what is it you suppose they mean ? These comments are hardly cryptic !

People are soft today and the sense of entitlement
They just need to get on with it and stop complaining
We did not complain when we were kids and poor
They can just make a pot of stew
Why don’t they buy a chest freezer
The parents can afford sky, expensive mobile phones etc
Etc

That quote could have come straight from the opinion page of any of a handful of national newspapers at any time over the last forty years. How does a society fight back against news papers that don’t inform, but deform public debate?

[Grumps]

I struggle to get my head around this. Its 2021 we're in the midst of a pandemic, jobs are lost and yet a large number of MPs voted against providing free school meals to hungry children til easter. What a country we live in. Signed.

Was it a free vote, or governed by the whips?

[TVC15]

That quote could have come straight from the opinion page of any of a handful of national newspapers at any time over the last forty years. How does a society fight back against news papers that don’t inform, but deform public debate?

Not just the newspapers - go through your TV guide and you will see somewhere at least one programme showing the minority extremes at pretty much any hour of the day.

In terms of how you fight back against this well it’s nigh on impossible to do this in a society where self interest and preservation of wealth is the number one priority for so many (and as you know this “I’m alright jack” attitude can apply to all parts of society - rich or poor)

The times in history when society does successfully fight back is simply a case of there are enough people who are feeling the pain, injustice, economic impact etc themselves.

[Devils_Advocate]

Was it a free vote, or governed by the whips?

Is this just a question because you don't know the answer or are you making an implied point? If it is just a question do you think the answer has any relevance to the discussion or again is it just your curiosity?

[Grumps]

Is this just a question because you don't know the answer or are you making an implied point? If it is just a question do you think the answer has any relevance to the discussion or again is it just your curiosity?

It was a question in relation to a post about how MPs voted, totally relevant to that point. I don't know the answer.
Now get back in your box and stop trying to pick on certain posters.

[dsr]

Is this just a question because you don't know the answer or are you making an implied point? If it is just a question do you think the answer has any relevance to the discussion or again is it just your curiosity?

I take it that means you don't know either?

[Devils_Advocate]

I take it that means you don't know either?

I do know but this poster often states or asks things that seem to have an underlying implied point but then if challenged on it comes back claiming he was just asking or just saying and didnt mean anything by it.

Im just wondering if his question in response to Chadders post about being in disbelief at the way MPs have voted is because he thinks that whether the MPs were whipped or not has some baring on their responsibility and accountability for their vote or whether he thinks its irrelevant and just wants to know the answer

My question was pretty straight forward and easily answerable unless you dont want to commit to an opinion you may have to defend and cant back track on.

I'll leave it to Grumps to decide if he wants to engage with me but Id warn others to be careful engaging with him unless you clarify what point (if any) he is making first

[Grumps]

I do know but this poster often states or asks things that seem to have an underlying implied point but then if challenged on it comes back claiming he was just asking or just saying and didnt mean anything by it.

Im just wondering if his question in response to Chadders post about being in disbelief at the way MPs have voted is because he thinks that whether the MPs were whipped or not has some baring on their responsibility and accountability for their vote or whether he thinks its irrelevant and just wants to know the answer

My question was pretty straight forward and easily answerable unless you dont want to commit to an opinion you may have to defend and cant back track on.

I'll leave it to Grumps to decide if he wants to engage with me but Id warn others to be careful engaging with him unless you clarify what point (if any) he is making first

You read far too much into simple questions. Not everybody thinks the same way that your strange mind works.
Iam sure grown ups can make their own mind whether or not to engage with me, and don't need the help of some clown on a message board to make the decision for them.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The answer has to be food vouchers that can only be used by the recipients with ID. Then they can't be sold or used for alcohol or fags.

Ah but if people don't have ID to vote how can we expect them to have ID to use food vouchers, or some waffle like that.

[dsr]

My question was pretty straight forward and easily answerable ...

So was his.

[Devils_Advocate]

You read far too much into simple questions. Not everybody thinks the same way that your strange mind works.
Iam sure grown ups can make their own mind whether or not to engage with me, and don't need the help of some clown on a message board to make the decision for them.

Ive seen you do it and your reluctance to answer a simple question and instead spend more time focusing on me picking on you and bickering with me just illustrates my point.

My simple question still stands if you are willing to answer it with a straight bat

[Devils_Advocate]

So was his.

I know whats your point?

[Grumps]

Ive seen you do it and your reluctance to answer a simple question and instead spend more time focusing on me picking on you and bickering with me just illustrates my point.

My simple question still stands if you are willing to answer it with a straight bat

I answered it at 9.47.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I think this is a short term fix, but no child should go hungry in the UK in this day and age.

However, I am a big believer that people need to be educated about the costs involved with having children. It is a disgrace that an estimated 2.2 million children (prior to Covid) depended on school meals and an estimated 3.8 million children post Covid now depend on school meals.

Yes there a hell of a lot of people struggling due to Covid but as the figures show this was a problem prior to this pandemic.

The government needs to educate people on birth control and the costs associated with having a child and also help educate people on how to control there finances in general. In the long term the government can’t be expected to feed that many children.

However in the current circumstances I am fully on Marcus Rashfords side that all children should be helped out

[Devils_Advocate]

I answered it at 9.47.

No you didnt but to clarify, my question to you from this whole conversation is do you think that whether the MPs were whipped or not has any bearing their own individual accountability and responsibility for the way they chose to vote. This is very much linked to the overall conversation because Chadders was expressing his disbelief that MPs in this day and age would vote against a motion like this.

Just to add some further clarity on my side I actually think if this is the point you were leading to then I think it actually opens up a new and interesting conversation but if there is a discussion to have I think it works best if people are clear about their own position.

If however you do not think it has any baring and Chadders post sparked a natural interest on whether it was a whipped vote or not then thats fair enough

Im actually really trying to steer clear of arguing and bickering and have been very open an clear around where I am coming from. Id appreciate if you did the same now but if you dont want to for whatever reason thats your choice.

[AndrewJB]

I think this is a short term fix, but no child should go hungry in the UK in this day and age.

However, I am a big believer that people need to be educated about the costs involved with having children. It is a disgrace that an estimated 2.2 million children (prior to Covid) depended on school meals and an estimated 3.8 million children post Covid now depend on school meals.

Yes there a hell of a lot of people struggling due to Covid but as the figures show this was a problem prior to this pandemic.

The government needs to educate people on birth control and the costs associated with having a child and also help educate people on how to control there finances in general. In the long term the government can’t be expected to feed that many children.

However in the current circumstances I am fully on Marcus Rashfords side that all children should be helped out

The economy has been managed in such a way not to work for people at the bottom. Look at how the cost of living has risen, while wages for the bottom 50% have stagnated. The cost of housing has skyrocketed, and availability has fallen. The government had the chance to set minimum rental standards and a landlord registry, but refused. Austerity and cuts not just to benefits, but the social fabric all landed on the shoulders of the people at the bottom. Look at this very conversation. Government spends a whopping £12.3 Billion on a test and trace system that hardly works (run on an excel spreadsheet), but refuses to spend £25 Million on feeding hungry children.

[Newcastleclaret93]

The economy has been managed in such a way not to work for people at the bottom. Look at how the cost of living has risen, while wages for the bottom 50% have stagnated. The cost of housing has skyrocketed, and availability has fallen. The government had the chance to set minimum rental standards and a landlord registry, but refused. Austerity and cuts not just to benefits, but the social fabric all landed on the shoulders of the people at the bottom. Look at this very conversation. Government spends a whopping £12.3 Billion on a test and trace system that hardly works (run on an excel spreadsheet), but refuses to spend £25 Million on feeding hungry children.

I agree with you to an extent, the test and trace has been a disaster from start to finish costing far too much money.
As I said I am fully behind the movement to feed school children through this pandemic.

However, the UK is one of the best welfare States in the world offering a number of different routes to support people. I am just simply asking the question what is the long term strategy? The government and tax payers can not be expected to pay for this in the long run (ie next 10-20 years) because as highlighted this is not just an issue caused by the pandemic.

Long term this country needs to come up with a viable way of stopping child poverty, simply increasing minimum wage and capping rent does not work.

[AndrewJB]

I agree with you to an extent, the test and trace has been a disaster from start to finish costing far too much money.
As I said I am fully behind the movement to feed school children through this pandemic.

However, the UK is one of the best welfare States in the world offering a number of different routes to support people. I am just simply asking the question what is the long term strategy? The government and tax payers can not be expected to pay for this in the long run (ie next 10-20 years) because as highlighted this is not just an issue caused by the pandemic.

Long term this country needs to come up with a viable way of stopping child poverty, simply increasing minimum wage and capping rent does not work.

There is no long term strategy from the government. A straightforward thing would be to create jobs by investing in the country's infrastructure. Build more houses, faster communications, green the economy, etc. That would create jobs, and spread wealth around, and sadly, the Tory Party (by their actions) don't do this. With test and trace (according to a recent article in the Sun) the people who make the calls earn £9.42/hour. There are consultants on £7K per day. You can't tell me this wasn't about extracting the nation's wealth in a difficult time, and giving it to their friends.

[Grumps]

So many experts.....

[Newcastleclaret93]

So many experts.....

Not really sure it’s people thinking there experts. More people have a political view on it and an opinion on how it can be resolved

[Grumps]

Not really sure it’s people thinking there experts. More people have a political view on it and an opinion on how it can be resolved

Look at the post above where I made the comment

[pompeyclaret]

I know not all situations are the same, but to me, the amount of benefits has been calculated to meet minimum needs, and is adjusted depending on people claiming.

So if you're getting universal credit with children, you get more benefits to pay for those children's needs. The gov has provided for you the finances it believes is sufficient to make this happen.

Therefore, either the amount it provides isn't sufficient, and this is regardless of Covid, or people aren't able to budget properly. This isn't the children's fault, so I'd agree if any are going hungry then the government can provide them meals at school - but they've already paid once, so to me, any UC would be deducted to remove this element.

However, is its the governments job to do everything for you? Do they need more training for people on how to budget? Make cheap nutritious meals for children? Don't have the answers, but throwing more and more money at something is rarely the answer.

Many different circumstances, and appreciate people are losing jobs - I've gone over 5 months without employment due to Covid, but I have budgeted properly, not overstretched before, and made cut-backs to ensure the bills are paid and food on the table.

[ceborame]

I think when houses get about £250k we really are talking stupid money. These can take £800-£1200 a month to mortgage which is truly unsustainable - these are also Burnley prices, don’t get me started on the cost of a London flat

Mother nature is currently sorting this sh!t out

[AndrewJB]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/polit ... EuZGL3_OsU

Apparently yesterday’s vote was just “headline grabbing.” I’m sure this will fill hungry children with reassurance, if not actual food.

[Colburn_Claret]

So when people on the Antony Higginbotham thread say things like the below (I paraphrase)...what is it you suppose they mean ? These comments are hardly cryptic !

People are soft today and the sense of entitlement
They just need to get on with it and stop complaining
We did not complain when we were kids and poor
They can just make a pot of stew
Why don’t they buy a chest freezer
The parents can afford sky, expensive mobile phones etc
Etc

I take it that they are saying the parents have the means, but not the ability to manage a budget or put their children's needs first .
There is no interpretation of that, that says let the kids starve.

[Jakubclaret]

We had to make do when we was younger, charity shops & you eat what you get served no complaining. I don't think anybody is endorsing children knowingly being deprived of food, we know we also have a obesity problem with SOME children so it's wise to suggest in some cases food is available if anything too much food & certainly the wrong type.

[Burnleyareback2]

Another heated topic, if by any chance you agree that there needs to be a better solution than free meals for all then it means you want children to die. It’s the new voting for Brexit means you are racist.

Nobody want children to die, starve or be hungry.

At the rate of things I’ve seen today we will be walking into tonnes of food waste next week and empty super market shelves.

[Colburn_Claret]

He's right, though. There are "plenty" of people on this board who, oddly, believe that the need for food banks and the existence of a large number of hungry kids in this country are self-inflicted problems.

He went on to say imply "some" of the responses on this thread show little or no compassion. Correct again.

Luckily, there seem to be more decent posters on here than not.

It depends who you are feeling compassion for.
We all feel compassion for the plight of these children, I cannot feel compassion for any parent who doesn't put their child's needs before their own. And if children are going to bed hungry, then these parents have their priorities wrong.

I do believe a lot of it is a lack of education, not just at school but at home when they were children themselves. Trying to put that genie back in the bottle is one of the biggest challenges that society faces, and it is a social problem, not a governmental one. That doesn't mean the government shouldn't or can't play its part, but to suggest its the governments fault is wrong. While prolonging free school meals solves the guilty conscience of the population, it doesn't in anyway, address the far bigger fundamental problem of how some people on benefits prioritise their budget.
TVC sneering at people pointing out that in our day we lived on fresh food and had healthy balanced diets yada, yada, yada
It is a lot easier to eat cheaply, and more healthily, if you buy prepare and cook your own food, than live on takeaways or ready meals. Anyone, can go into any charity shop, and buy a second hand cook book. It isn't rocket science, but there is a lack of will from some people to do the blinking obvious.

I dont suffer fools gladly, that's me right or wrong, and I can't sympathise with people who don't have any inclination to help themselves.

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

I dont suffer fools gladly, that's me right or wrong, and I can't sympathise with people who don't have any inclination to help themselves.

Don’t disagree with your main points but your final paragraph, above, is to punish the parents. That isn’t the problem. It’s the innocent children that are going hungry that needs solving and by popping around to school for one decent meal a day at least you aren’t throwing more cash at parents who will blow it on cigarettes, alcohol and drugs.

[Colburn_Claret]

Don’t disagree with your main points but your final paragraph, above, is to punish the parents. That isn’t the problem. It’s the innocent children that are going hungry that needs solving and by popping around to school for one decent meal a day at least you aren’t throwing more cash at parents who will blow it on cigarettes, alcohol and drugs.

I can buy that, and at the end of the day I wouldn't want to see kids go hungry just to prove a point, I know it isn't their fault.
It's not free school meals that irk me, it's the fact that people claim they are necessary. They're needed, but they're definitely not necessary.

[TVC15]

TVC sneering at people pointing out that in our day we lived on fresh food and had healthy balanced diets yada, yada, yada

What’s the view like up there on that very tall horse ?

Where have I ever “sneered” at people who in our day lived on fresh food and had healthy diets ?
“Our” day is very probably the same time I was brought up. Why would I or anyone sneer at any family who brings their children up to eat well irrespective of their wealth ? What a ridiculous thing to say.

What I did “sneer” out is some of the comments on here which said that nobody complained back in the day or just make a pot of stew and get on with it. The comments around benefits, affording mobile phones etc are not surprising given some of the type of people who post on here....but at least you seem to agree that has got nothing to do with the kids.

Are those the type of comments that you agree with ?
Personally I don’t and based on the majority of people on this threads opinions they disagree too.

I have never said that FSM is the long term answer - it’s very obvious that it isn’t. I’m not sure anybody is saying that. It’s a short term fix but right now I have not seen a better option and based on the groundswell of opinion across the country and business community etc there does not seem to be any better immediate alternatives.

[Jakubclaret]

It stems from the intolerance to opposing views, articulated retorts would probably reduce potential conflict!

[Burnley1989]

Why do people assume that that everyone who is poor spends their money on fags & booze?

Some people have just had terrible look and fallen on hard times.

[Jakubclaret]

Why do people assume that that everyone who is poor spends their money on fags & booze?

Some people have just had terrible look and fallen on hard times.

Not everyone but plenty do, it’s the lifestyle choices SOME make, if you’ve got a massive monthly shop & a chest freezer & all the tubs & labels & a marker pen & the latest cookbooks & throw in a microwave Vs the latest iPhone/Samsung model, they’d be no contest regarding the choice with SOME people.

[Devils_Advocate]

Looking at some of the car crash responses from Tory MPs over the last couple of days you can clearly see why Cummings usually orchestrates a copy and paste stock response when the sh*t goes down

My current Top 3

1 Ben 'behaving' Bradley
2 Selaine Saxby
3 Philip Davies

[Burnley Ace]

On the Benefit calculator (I fortunately haven’t had to use one before) a single parent with 2 children, paying £120 rent for a 2 bedroom would get about £300 a week - is that right?

£120 tax credits
£16 Council tax support
£120 Housing support
£35 Child support

Is £150 a week for food, clothes, utility bills etc a realistic figure?

[Swizzlestick]

Jakub and the Chest Freezer.

[Burnley Ace]

Looking at some of the car crash responses from Tory MPs over the last couple of days you can clearly see why Cummings usually orchestrates a copy and paste stock response when the sh*t goes down

My current Top 3

1 Ben 'behaving' Bradley
2 Selaine Saxby
3 Philip Davies

Is this the response you a referring to?

“At one school in Mansfield 75% of kids have a social worker, 25% of parents are illiterate. Their estate is the centre of the area’s crime. One kid lives in a crack den, another in a brothel. These are the kids that most need our help, extending FSM doesn’t reach these kids.”

Which bit don’t you agree with?

[AndrewJB]

Not everyone but plenty do, it’s the lifestyle choices SOME make, if you’ve got a massive monthly shop & a chest freezer & all the tubs & labels & a marker pen & the latest cookbooks & throw in a microwave Vs the latest iPhone/Samsung model, they’d be no contest regarding the choice with SOME people.

You don’t do a massive monthly shop if you’re poor. You shop for food every day, and buy things going out of date. You’re also unlikely to have a massive chest freezer when you’re poor. You’re also unable to take advantage of buying food in bulk. Or making things like bread yourself - as the base cost of all the ingredients work out to that of a daily food shop. I would bet most people on here would struggle to get by on such a budget, and in such circumstances.

[Jakubclaret]

You don’t do a massive monthly shop if you’re poor. You shop for food every day, and buy things going out of date. You’re also unlikely to have a massive chest freezer when you’re poor. You’re also unable to take advantage of buying food in bulk. Or making things like bread yourself - as the base cost of all the ingredients work out to that of a daily food shop. I would bet most people on here would struggle to get by on such a budget, and in such circumstances.

It’s a vicious circle because SOME poor are constantly in debt & buy everything on the knock at a higher price & want the best of everything & if that means owing littlewoods or brighthouse for however long usually stretched out for years to lower the payments that happens, it doesn’t have to be that way with different lifestyle choices from the outset, flagship iPhones/Samsung’s aren’t necessary compulsory items, food is you’ll die without it eventually.

[TVC15]

It stems from the intolerance to opposing views, articulated retorts would probably reduce potential conflict!

It actually stems from intolerance to ignorance, bigotry and prejudice, and ill informed sweeping generalisations based on no evidence.
Oh and I forget intolerance to those people who are just bat sh-it crazy.