ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

[SalisburyClaret]

Think I’ve zoned out and missed something- is the £200m for Garlick’s shares or £200m for the club?

[Steddyman]

CT has gone very quiet about all of this.

[Rileybobs]

I totally agree with that.

But I'd like to know what the "Garlick out, in with the new" protagonists are basing their hopes for the future on, given that £2oom will scarcely fund the club's obviously needed improvements.

Why do people keep saying this? If the buying price is £200m, that has no relevance one way or the other on what will be invested in the running of the club.

[boatshed bill]

Why do people keep saying this? If the buying price is £200m, that has no relevance one way or the other on what will be invested in the running of the club.

I guess because they'd like to know.

[Rileybobs]

I guess because they'd like to know.

But the £200m wouldn’t be invested in the running of the club, it would be given to the shareholders in exchange for a controlling interest in the club. So it doesn’t matter to us whether they’re spending 50p or £500m.

[FactualFrank]

That is worrying. No benefit in that at all.

Rock = ALK
Hard place = El Nokashy & Farrell

Pretty much - yeah.

[arise_sir_charge]

Pretty much - yeah.

What would be the point to them? They’d be spending £200m on an asset that could soon be worth £50m tops
unless they invest.

[boatshed bill]

The strange thing, to me at least, is that none of the pro-takeover lobby seems to have a clue as to how a takeover will benefit either the club as we know it, or the supporters.
So what do some of you expect from this investment?

[Steddyman]

The strange thing, to me at least, is that none of the pro-takeover lobby seems to have a clue as to how a takeover will benefit either the club as we know it, or the supporters.
So what do some of you expect from this investment?

Same applies to the people against the takeover.

We don't know the facts of the deal, so why make them up and speculate. Let's wait to see what they are before pinning our flag to the mast.

EDIT: I should add I expect us to be able to compete on transfers. Without that, we are down anyway.

[boatshed bill]

Same applies to the people against the takeover.

We don't know the facts of the deal, so why make them up and speculate. Let's wait to see what they are before pinning our flag to the mast.

EDIT: I should add I expect us to be able to compete on transfers. Without that, we are down anyway.

The big difference, again only as I see it, is that some of us respect the chairman for what he has done and some basically are calling him all manner of unpleasant names whilst assuming that any takeover is guaranteed to be an improvement.

[what_no_pies]

I'm not suggesting for a minute I think this is what's happening but for those questioning whether somebody ould make a quick buck from asset stripping the club here's some very speculative sums:

Tarky £30m
Pope £20m
Taylor £20m
Dwight £25m
Wood £20m
Brownhill £15m

Don't renew other contracts thus lowering wage bill significantly.

Prem Money (1 season) £100m

Parachute payments £120m

£350m trousered and there's still plenty of meat left on the bone.

[NewClaret]

The big difference, again only as I see it, is that some of us respect the chairman for what he has done and some basically are calling him all manner of unpleasant names whilst assuming that any takeover is guaranteed to be an improvement.

I think the vast majority respect the Chairman BB. Most will look back on his tenure with the rosiest of tinted spectacles.

They’re just frustrated at our current league position and lack of investment, which, for all he has done for the club, is at embarrassing levels in comparison to our competitors.

Worth remembering though Garlick he has been looking to sell for many years, and the only way BFC is sold is with his agreement, so when a sale goes through, he is also the man to thank if it’s positive and blame if it’s negative.

[dsr]

I'm not suggesting for a minute I think this is what's happening but for those questioning whether somebody ould make a quick buck from asset stripping the club here's some very speculative sums:

Tarky £30m
Pope £20m
Taylor £20m
Dwight £25m
Wood £20m
Brownhill £15m

Don't renew other contracts thus lowering wage bill significantly.

Prem Money (1 season) £100m

Parachute payments £120m

£350m trousered and there's still plenty of meat left on the bone.

You're forgetting that there are wages to pay in the meantime. If the entire PL £100m is pocketed, then there is nothing to pay the wages and we go bust before the parachute money comes in.

On the other hand, the cash reserves are in the bank. No easier asset to strip than cash.

[KRBFC]

OK. Now I accept that I am coming from the most cynical of places.
Tarks, Dwight, Pope, Taylor and Wood. We could sell them for a fair old chunk. We would also save a large amount on wages.
There is a large sum coming for being in the PL.
I reckon that covers the investment and more.

Oh we don’t pay anyone then, got it makes sense, zero outgoings

[arise_sir_charge]

The big difference, again only as I see it, is that some of us respect the chairman for what he has done and some basically are calling him all manner of unpleasant names whilst assuming that any takeover is guaranteed to be an improvement.

And some of us equally respect the chairman, understand that he wants to sell and trust that he will do the right thing when he sells. Why wouldn’t he? After all, he’s a fan like each of us.

[dandeclaret]

I'm not suggesting for a minute I think this is what's happening but for those questioning whether somebody ould make a quick buck from asset stripping the club here's some very speculative sums:
It
Tarky £30m
Pope £20m
Taylor £20m
Dwight £25m
Wood £20m
Brownhill £15m

Don't renew other contracts thus lowering wage bill significantly.

Prem Money (1 season) £100m

Parachute payments £120m

£350m trousered and there's still plenty of meat left on the bone.

I presume that they’re not paying any wages (£66m is it?) per season, so £200m for your 3 years quotes .... means that they’re now £50m short of break even.... where is that meat you talk about?

[elwaclaret]

I’m far from convinced by either takeover, but I do not need to be.
Those who want Garlick to turn them down, want Garlick to carry on but do not trust him to negotiate the sale...

A. I do not see any point having a hissy fit about it, when one we don’t know the least detail of what is going on
B. My opinion on a message board is not going to make any difference.

Until we know what is happening wild guessing is not going to help the club.

[AfloatinClaret]

I presume that they’re not paying any wages (£66m is it?) per season, so £200m for your 3 years quotes .... means that they’re now £50m short of break even.... where is that meat you talk about?

I doubt that the new owners would retain/pay the star players for three years before selling them. Similarly, it's reported that a substantial proportion of the BFC wage bill is for bonuses, if we aren't finishing 10th, or even staying in the EPL, they too will reduce substantailly.

If the oft-quoted £200 million is buying you the whole kit and caboodle and assuming that as reported, the club has nos significant debts, then allowing for finance charges and the wind down/up costs, you could anticipate a comfortable 30-40% and likely 50%+ return on investment if you sold off the club piecemeal.

[Hedontplayforyou]

Gone pretty quiet on this front in the last few days. Any of our , in the know sources for any details to share, like is this moving forwards and if so which party? Cheers guys

[AndyClaret]

I'd be knocking 50m off the offer due to dereliction of duty by not strengthening the squad adequately.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I'd be knocking 50m off the offer due to dereliction of duty by not strengthening the squad adequately.

Exactly this. Fine selling the club but not bothering backing the manager while the sale talks drag on is a shocking strategy that could really come back to haunt us next May.

[Paul Waine]

I'd be knocking 50m off the offer due to dereliction of duty by not strengthening the squad adequately.

If the offer is £200 million - and some suggest this is an "asset stripping" price - maybe the £50m you suggest should be knocked off has already been knocked off.

Slightly more seriously, we don't know anything about the negotiations, other than Reuters reported ALK bidding £180m and other media, more recently, telling us Farnell/El Kashashy have bid £200m and that they've signed "sale and purchase agreement." Plus Hart, our club CEO, acknowledging that there is something....

There may well be some "performance" elements to any deal that is done - for example, pay £Xm upfront and extra £Ym at the end of the season, if not relegated. But, this would be difficult to agree a contract if only because the new owners would have more control over the team than current owners - and these type of "earn out" deals usually keep the previous management in charge of the day to day business.

Anyone who wants to buy a Premier League club has got 20 to consider and (should) already know that 3 clubs get relegated at the end of every season. They will also know that players get injured. Buyers are able to assess the depth of the squad that they are buying, should a key player get injured. Given this knowledge, either clubs will only be bought in the close season before the transfer window opens or it's all taken as part of the landscape of buying a football club, so a price is agreed and that's the end of it.

Of course, that's not to suggest that any price has been agreed. We will only know that is the case when the club announce that it is passing to new owners.

UTC

[mkmel]

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/f ... y-19211511

[MarkGreen]

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/f ... y-19211511

According to that List, Garlick has more money than the City owner Sheikh Mansour who sits in first place with £15.19m...

Capture.JPG (68.02 KiB) Viewed 3983 times

[aggi]

If there wasn't a danger of relegation then, under most valuation models, you'd expect the club to sell for quite a bit more than £200m. Good levels of profit, revenue, assets, etc

Obviously there is a risk of relegation and that's where the "unknown" in the valuation is. How likely is it the club will be relegated, how likely they'll bounce straight back, etc My favoured method is to do a valuation based on current figures and then another based on estimated figures if relegation happened and weighting the two valuations but you're still down to guessing the likelihood of relegation to get that weighting.

[NewClaret]

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/f ... y-19211511

Stark. Proves that we really need an owner whose fortune is measured in billions to compete.

Do not think ALK/El Nokashy bids move us further up that table.

[NewClaret]

According to that List, Garlick has more money than the City owner Sheikh Mansour who sits in first place with £15.19m...


Capture.JPG

All these years bemoaning our lack of funds and turns out we’re 4x richer than City

[KRBFC]

Whatever is going on needs sorting ASAP, all the off field uncertainty and argument is absolutely destroying us on the field imo.

From Dyche moaning in the press to Garlick leaving us criminally short is just draining the fight out of us on field. When has a club ever succeeded without any investment and off field division and argument?

[Paul Waine]

If there wasn't a danger of relegation then, under most valuation models, you'd expect the club to sell for quite a bit more than £200m. Good levels of profit, revenue, assets, etc

Obviously there is a risk of relegation and that's where the "unknown" in the valuation is. How likely is it the club will be relegated, how likely they'll bounce straight back, etc My favoured method is to do a valuation based on current figures and then another based on estimated figures if relegation happened and weighting the two valuations but you're still down to guessing the likelihood of relegation to get that weighting.

The great things with valuation models is how you decide the appropriate discount rate. Let's assume any serious buyer has access to the "data room" with full disclosure of all information relevant to BFC, let's also assume that both the club and potential buyer can agree on valuations of all the assets, including player contracts it will still be all about the discount rate. Is 20% too high? too low? should it be 25%? 30% - or based on our start to this season, 100%? That's where deals will be done.... or not done.

UTC

[CFS]

Gone pretty quiet on this front in the last few days. Any of our , in the know sources for any details to share, like is this moving forwards and if so which party? Cheers guys

Apparently Boden missed a group call with farnell lot. Well so he says hahaha.

[Hedontplayforyou]

Apparently he’s taken that call now and there’s nothing happened since the last update....why would they be phoning a local journo?

Spinning stories perhaps?

[claretandy]

Apparently Boden missed a group call with farnell lot. Well so he says hahaha.

Nothing new to report, superb journalism !

[OffTheBar]

Apparently he’s taken that call now and there’s nothing happened since the last update....why would they be phoning a local journo?

Spinning stories perhaps?

If you were spinning a story, would you say there is nothing to report?

[Hedontplayforyou]

If you were spinning a story, would you say there is nothing to report?

No , which is why I’m asking? Unless they are trying to bluff him into thinking they are genuine by saying there is nothing to report as of yet. - then feeding him nonsense once he’s started to believe their crap?

I just don’t get why the group would call a local journo unless they wanted him on side so they could potentially get him to publish whatever they wanted in order to gain an upper hand with something

[OffTheBar]

No , which is why I’m asking? Unless they are trying to bluff him into thinking they are genuine by saying there is nothing to report as of yet. - then feeding him nonsense once he’s started to believe their crap?

I just don’t get why the group would call a local journo unless they wanted him on side so they could potentially get him to publish whatever they wanted in order to gain an upper hand with something

Presumably they were returning his call trying to ask for comment, rather than cold calling him!

[Hedontplayforyou]

Possibly but who knows

[randomclaret2]

Boden has confirmed they were returning his call

[CnBtruntru]

47 pages of posts and nobody knows nothing regarding this takeover

[arise_sir_charge]

Something else that the asset stripper conspiracy theorists totally miss.

Our biggest assets pretty much all have fixed term contracts that allow them to walk away for nothing when they expire. Not the best thing to spunk £200m on with no intention of investing further.

[the_magic_rat]

If the offer is £200 million - and some suggest this is an "asset stripping" price - maybe the £50m you suggest should be knocked off has already been knocked off.

Slightly more seriously, we don't know anything about the negotiations, other than Reuters reported ALK bidding £180m and other media, more recently, telling us Farnell/El Kashashy have bid £200m and that they've signed "sale and purchase agreement." Plus Hart, our club CEO, acknowledging that there is something....

There may well be some "performance" elements to any deal that is done - for example, pay £Xm upfront and extra £Ym at the end of the season, if not relegated. But, this would be difficult to agree a contract if only because the new owners would have more control over the team than current owners - and these type of "earn out" deals usually keep the previous management in charge of the day to day business.

Anyone who wants to buy a Premier League club has got 20 to consider and (should) already know that 3 clubs get relegated at the end of every season. They will also know that players get injured. Buyers are able to assess the depth of the squad that they are buying, should a key player get injured. Given this knowledge, either clubs will only be bought in the close season before the transfer window opens or it's all taken as part of the landscape of buying a football club, so a price is agreed and that's the end of it.

Of course, that's not to suggest that any price has been agreed. We will only know that is the case when the club announce that it is passing to new owners.

UTC

The Venky's allegedly didn't know three teams get relegated every season when they bought Rovers!

[charlton_mad]

I'm not suggesting for a minute I think this is what's happening but for those questioning whether somebody ould make a quick buck from asset stripping the club here's some very speculative sums:

Tarky £30m
Pope £20m
Taylor £20m
Dwight £25m
Wood £20m
Brownhill £15m

Don't renew other contracts thus lowering wage bill significantly.

Prem Money (1 season) £100m

Parachute payments £120m

£350m trousered and there's still plenty of meat left on the bone.

I am another Charlton supporter, and fully agree with what Charlton boy has stated on your forum, I want to back up what he has said with a bit more information that I hope you will read, and then do some checks of your own to see what you might be dealing with in terms of Chris Farnell.

You already know 2 names that are involved in the bid, namely the Egyptian and Farnell, at Charltons low point Farnell was a Director, and he knew someone who was going to be the club's Chairman, Paul Elliott was his name, and at the time some of our fans raided Farnell's offices, another "friend" of his was there, the ex-manager Dave Jones, do your checks on these 4 people, who at different timings were going to take over our club, Dave Jones was also involved with Bury, along with Farnell, what I am posting next is what Elliott is good at, not forgetting Elliott was once a Bankrupt, please, do your homework on these guys, 2 already want a piece of Burnley, the other two wont be far behind them.... See these twitter threads from someone's twitter account for Paul Elliott's history in his involvement of the asset stripped girls school of St Elphins whose land has been redeveloped and sold since.
Initially, ownership involving Paul Elliott and others had apparently been under the guise of saving the school however 9 months later it was abruptly shut down without warning during student exams. The ownership had "illegally dismissed" school staff as found by a subsequent employment tribunal due to this lack of notice.

1st Thread (twitter link: https://twitter.com/DomCafc/status/1289566497308901378) reads:
Paul Elliott ownership “BROKE THE LAW” as found by an St Elphins employment tribunal Tax payers picked up the tribunal compensation cost School shut without warning during key exams which threatened to “make boarding students homeless” of all ages.
Article referenced: http://www.stelphins.co.uk/press56.html ... MCL=XVCHfK

2nd Thread: (Twitter link https://twitter.com/DomCafc/status/1289503723861893125)
Additionally an email was sent from someone to this twitter account recording a personal account of what happened whist the person had been working there as a teacher. This is a truly damning account that appears consistent with all media reports although more detailed from the perspective of someone on the ground at the time.

3rd Thread: (twitter link https://twitter.com/DomCafc/status/1289844405025697792):
Paul Elliott ownership apparent disregard of law at St Elphins: - Construction works began without planning permission + an unauthorised felling of a protected tree - Likely that house construction was the plan from the off at St Elphins
Article Referenced: http://stelphins.co.uk/press22.html

Possible Conclusion:
What would appear apparently clear from all of these reports is that the current Charlton ownership has enormous parallels with what occurred at St Elphin's. The "owners" reportedly appear to have no regard for legal protections surrounding land development and are reportedly utterly ruthless in their pursuit of whatever it is they desire. How fans can act to halt this is of course the big question at Charlton.

Disclaimer: this is just a summary report of what is written by others and an attempt to relay what is written from these accounts for others to see. Voice of the Valley publicly first made the connection between Paul Elliott and St Elphins.
Please comment below and share with others, ensuring people know this is vital.
Quote · 5Like LOL

[arise_sir_charge]

Did he pay £200m for the school?

[Steddyman]

Thanks for the input charlton_mad.

That backs up a lot of what I read on the Charlton Trust website, which clearly shows the main person at fault was the then owner, Paul Elliot who was in charge for quite a while before Farnell was called in.

We've had no indication Paul Elliot is involved with this takever. None.

[charlton_mad]

Did he pay £200m for the school?

Your forums views on this has generally been about selling players to match and profit above the £200m, but whats your ground worth without players, to a developer?

[Dark Cloud]

Tbh it really doesn't matter how much that guy paid for the school, the problem we have had all long, no matter who is in the box seat to buy us out, is that non of them is a fan of Burnley (or indeed Charlton or any other club for that matter) as they are not really football fans at all. They are businessmen and businessmen look to make the maximum profit as quickly as they can and will stuff anybody and everybody they feel they need to along the way. IF someone is prepared to shell out £200 million for little old Burnley, they are definitely not doing it out of the goodness of their heart and for the team to move forward or even maintain it's present level, they will HAVE to put in about another 60-70 million quid at least to buy players as the initial 200 million only buys them the club off MG. Can these chancers or basically anybody yet associated with buying us really stump up that kind of money??? Or are they pi**ing everybody about and chancing their arm in the hope they might get a cut price deal and then basically build 5 bedroomed houses on Turf Moor??? TBH, that seems the most likely way they'll ever make their money back and return a profit.

[OffTheBar]

Your forums views on this has generally been about selling players to match and profit above the £200m, but whats your ground worth without players, to a developer?

About £4.50

[randomclaret2]

Who would be buying 5 bed houses in that part of Burnley ?

[arise_sir_charge]

Dark Cloud.....are you serious about houses on Turf Moor and making a profit.

Think about that you are saying.

[arise_sir_charge]

Your forums views on this has generally been about selling players to match and profit above the £200m, but whats your ground worth without players, to a developer?

Not a lot. Not enough to cover their outlay for sure plus im fairly sure that the actual pitch is protected in some way.

Our training ground is in a national trust area and we’ve had to fight tooth and nail to be allowed to do anything with it let alone 4,000 semi detached townhouses.

It’s Burnley not London.

[Chester Perry]

There is (understandably) a belief from Charlton supporters that all on this board are ignorant of the traumas they have been through this year - that is not the case

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... =2&t=45887

reading through that thread again, highlights a number of points that are pertinent to our own situation now, and we knew Farnell was surrounded by suspicions then