ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

[Papabendi]

Jordan summery: Disagrees that Pace understands the culture of English football. Reality of football is very different to what he might expect. Man Utd can service their similar debt set up - Burnley aren't better off for this transaction and are a different proposition. Only real beneficiaries are Garlick/JB. Classic American leverage purchase, he reckons they've put £30m of their own cash into it. The challenge is servicing the debt, £10m+ a year to fund it. If Burnley get it right (fans back, don't get relegated etc) then everything will be fine, but if Burnley get it wrong one season and suffer relegation then problems lie ahead. Really good deal for the purchaser - already made significant money, paid probably 15% of the £200m valuation. ALK have a wake up call coming, it's a serious challenge. Dyche isn't going to be at the club forever, made him unassailable.


Pretty much what a lot of fans have been saying then. I guess it's wait and see, and hope...

Made the same point I have - Pace's praise of Dyche is up there with the Ewoks and C3PO. He absolutely had to get him on side, it is now the way Dyche uses this that is the worry.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Bill Kenwright turned down numerous offers over the years for Everton fc, he could have took the money and run, but he didn't because he had responsibilitys as a custodian. Unlike our lot.

Good deal for our former and new directors but a bad one for the town, fans and BFC

When you were feeling cut off from the club under the previous owner and wanted him gone, do you feel more connected now ?

[KRBFC]

I just object to the wilful trashing of the previous owners.

As for immoral, its only in football, not in the real world and that's probably why many of you on here are getting the arse on about it because you don't want to see the club as a business, purely as a club.

I know you want to take a minority role on everything, its in your nature but when so many football financial experts have concerns, there's a reason for fans to be worried and asking questions.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

He also said the money has gone into the shareholders pockets...

Of course, because they've sold it, but the new owners gave it to them.

[jojomk1]

Exactly this! I love this notion that the structure of this deal has come as a shock to Garlick and co. They must be extremely confident this takeover is going to work given the amount of time they spent negotiating it and the fact they agreed to sell and hand over to Pace. If it all goes tits up they will equally be as culpable as ALk.

Whether it works long term or not, Garlick and JB won't feel so bad about it when the money lands in their bank accounts

[DCWat]

Jordan summery: Disagrees that Pace understands the culture of English football. Reality of football is very different to what he might expect. Man Utd can service their similar debt set up - Burnley aren't better off for this transaction and are a different proposition. Only real beneficiaries are Garlick/JB. Classic American leverage purchase, he reckons they've put £30m of their own cash into it. The challenge is servicing the debt, £10m+ a year to fund it. If Burnley get it right (fans back, don't get relegated etc) then everything will be fine, but if Burnley get it wrong one season and suffer relegation then problems lie ahead. Really good deal for the purchaser - already made significant money, paid probably 15% of the £200m valuation. ALK have a wake up call coming, it's a serious challenge. Dyche isn't going to be at the club forever, made him unassailable.


Pretty much what a lot of fans have been saying then. I guess it's wait and see, and hope...

A very interesting take on the position that Pace has placed himself in with Dyche. I’d not considered that angle - it’s a very good point.

[kentonclaret]

We have been led to believe all along that Mike Garlick is a lifelong Burnley supporter and has always had the future of the club at the forefront of his plans for the club.

Now, others want to argue that it is just a business decision and no blame to Garlick.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I know you want to take a minority role on everything, its in your nature but when so many football financial experts have concerns, there's a reason for fans to be worried and asking questions.

Oh I forget I should adopt your position of screaming and crying anytime something looks vaguely bad

Fans have a right to ask questions, but some of the garbage on here has been beyond stupid, like the Oyston comparison for example.

[Dyched]

We have been led to believe all along that Mike Garlick is a lifelong Burnley supporter and has always had the future of the club at the forefront of his plans for the club.

Now, others want to argue that it is just a business decision and no blame to Garlick.

If you got the grief he got for running this football club brilliantly. Would you really give one about the club or it’s fans? I know I wouldn’t. A lot of Burnley fans deserve the very worse scenario in all of this.

[KRBFC]

I like many were excited about the arrival of ALK but as weeks go by and fresh information comes out surrounding the deal, major red flags and quite simply questions that need answers. I'm optimistic for the future and I actually like Alan Pace so far, but I'm not sure how fans can be comfortable when the club has significant debt over its head, which will ultimately drain our already limited income to compete.

[Darthlaw]

More guff spouted, this time by TalkSport, not backed up by any credible information, just hearsay and assumption on how Simon Jordan thinks they have purchased a football club. At least he's now suggesting that ALK DID put around 15% of their own money in to purchase the club, but again there is nothing to back this up as fact.

It's been said many times on this thread already but we just need to wait and see.

[jedi_master]

It's fair to say Simon Jordan pretty comprehensively assassinated this takeover just a moment ago.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

If you got the grief he got for running this football club brilliantly. Would you really give one about the club or it’s fans? I know I wouldn’t. A lot of Burnley fans deserve the very worse scenario in all of this.

Thought he was a Burnley fan so this would make no sense at all. Let’s not pretend he’s had the type of grief for example Teasdale used to get. It’s only the past few years he’s had mostly social media criticism of our transfer policy.

[Chester Perry]

He wasn't incompetent enough to pass the club on to a some Yanks, who have bought the club on borrowed money and are gambling on the clubs Premier league future to finance it

No but he has passed the club onto someone that:
- has the club borrowing money off himself and organisations such as Rights and Media Funding that charge at rates similar to MSD UK
- is closely allied (owns 8% of and is a senior Executive of USM) to Alisher Usmanov a man who MP's are currently wanting to ban commercial activities in the UK
- spent several hundreds of millions on players and managers that his own sporting director didn't want on a whim - it is only the introduction of Ancelotti and Marcel Brands as a combination that have shut that down
- the sporting director has spent nearly 3 years reducing the squad from 74 to the 23 they currently have at the end of the transfer window
- ran up 2 of the 5 all time largest losses in the Premier League
- made so many mistakes in the designing and planning of Bramley Moore Dock that overruns on that alone have cost £40m+

I could go on

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

It's fair to say Simon Jordan pretty comprehensively assassinated this takeover just a moment ago.

Well he did should we get relegated which of course isn’t a given.

[Chester Perry]

Thought he was a Burnley fan so this would make no sense at all. Let’s not pretend he’s had the type of grief for example Teasdale used to get. It’s only the past few years he’s had mostly social media criticism of our transfer policy.

so that makes it right? when only a handful have sought to understand the reasoning

[KRBFC]

Oh I forget I should adopt your position of screaming and crying anytime something looks vaguely bad

Fans have a right to ask questions, but some of the garbage on here has been beyond stupid, like the Oyston comparison for example.

The issue is, you're not a real Burnley fan (you admitted you switched from Liverpool in 2010), you will just never quite get it. If it all goes wrong, you will just go back to supporting Liverpool which for most people on here isn't a choice.

[claretonthecoast1882]

More guff spouted, this time by TalkSport, not backed up by any credible information, just hearsay and assumption on how Simon Jordan thinks they have purchased a football club. At least he's now suggesting that ALK DID put around 15% of their own money in to purchase the club, but again there is nothing to back this up as fact.

It's been said many times on this thread already but we just need to wait and see.

Looking at the comments on here from the piece Jordan has basically used figures in the paper and reviewed them, I suppose we should all listen to his words considering he bought a club and lost all his money.

[NottsClaret]

Weird how Man Utd fans were onto the Glazers straight away, even if it achieved nothing. They could see what was coming and had loads of, albeit fruitless, campaigns and protests.

And they're supposed to be your classic TV viewing, fair weather glory hunters. Whereas us 'real' fans of our local club seem to have been completely taken in by the spin around a takeover which is leveraged in almost exactly the same way but without the safety net of being the world's biggest club.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I like many were excited about the arrival of ALK but as weeks go by and fresh information comes out surrounding the deal, major red flags and quite simply questions that need answers. I'm optimistic for the future and I actually like Alan Pace so far, but I'm not sure how fans can be comfortable when the club has significant debt over its head, which will ultimately drain our already limited income to compete.

Growth of revenue streams if done correctly will cover the debt payments and more.

[jedi_master]

Well he did should we get relegated which of course isn’t a given.

Yep, fair point.

I mean it's clear we're fine so long as we're in this league, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. I also don't think we'll ever be relegated with Sean Dyche as manager. The problem with that is, I suspect he will go to Crystal Palace this summer to replace Hodgson (who I can see retiring). What comes after Dyche is the ultimate question.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The issue is, you're not a real Burnley fan (you admitted you switched from Liverpool in 2010), you will just never quite get it. If it all goes wrong, you will just go back to supporting Liverpool which for most people on here isn't a choice.

There it is, the little dig because you don't like being reminded about your tantrums

Weirdly, I keep track of more things about this club then you do and I don't have the massive strops that you've done on here, yet I'm apparently the glory hunter so it should be me having the tantrums....

I've not even been the one accusing the owners of shady dealings or been trashing their tenure.

How odd is that...

[Papabendi]

Jordan's view should be respected and is credible - however he in fairness like the rest of us has seen none of the actual detail.

To Jedi Master's point - I am not sure he exactly assassinated the takeover, but was certainly cynical. He said it had potential to work all things being equal we stay in the Premier League. I think we all know that is key.

[Papabendi]

Yep, fair point.

I mean it's clear we're fine so long as we're in this league, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. I also don't think we'll ever be relegated with Sean Dyche as manager. The problem with that is, I suspect he will go to Crystal Palace this summer to replace Hodgson (who I can see retiring). What comes after Dyche is the ultimate question.

Given what Pace has said about Dyche so far, I suspect we are ready to match at the very least what he would be offered elsewhere. The crucial point is are they ready to back him to the extent he would be backed elsewhere. I suspect that will become the crucial piece for Dyche.

[Chester Perry]

The issue is, you're not a real Burnley fan (you admitted you switched from Liverpool in 2010), you will just never quite get it. If it all goes wrong, you will just go back to supporting Liverpool which for most people on here isn't a choice.

way to welcome the new fans we so desperately need
harsh for someone who has been so passionate

[kentonclaret]

"A lot of Burnley fans deserve the very worse scenario in all of this'

By a lot I will take that as a handful, not the many thousands that follow the club and attend on match days.

[Sleeping Cat]

Jesus christ, are you really nitpicking this badly? The old owners would've known exactly the deal on the table before being given an option to accept or decline. I'm not sure why you feel so strongly for ALK on this, probably just to be in the minority to argue with everyone else but 95% of football fans will tell you leveraged buyouts are immoral in football.

MG & JB together own over 75%, so the club could be sold without consulting the other directors or involving them at all. From what I understand, that is what happened. Then the other directors are backed into a corner with choice to either sell up and resign from the board or keep their shares but removed from the board.

[Darthlaw]

Looking at the comments on here from the piece Jordan has basically used figures in the paper and reviewed them, I suppose we should all listen to his words considering he bought a club and lost all his money.

Commentary based upon factless newspaper reports is still guff, regardless of the commentator.

If any of them had produced any hint of fact around these figures, I'd take it more seriously. Otherwise its just conjecture designed to wind folk up and get clicks.

But hey, as evidenced on here, it works!

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

so that makes it right? when only a handful have sought to understand the reasoning

Where did I say it makes it right? If you takeover any lead position at a football club unfortunately you are bound to get grief at some point. As i said he’s hardly received the same level Teasdale used to receive.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

way to welcome the new fans we so desperately need
harsh for someone who has been so passionate

Normal to be fair.

The Americans want to grow the revenue streams and one way to do that is to push the global marketing as you know.
That's gonna attract fans, but there will always be a core group who will have an old fashioned mentality about fans and where they come from.

[Chester Perry]

Normal to be fair.

The Americans want to grow the revenue streams and one way to do that is to push the global marketing as you know.
That's gonna attract fans, but there will always be a core group who will have an old fashioned mentality about fans and where they come from.

tbf a lot of my own perspectives are old fashioned

[KRBFC]

There it is, the little dig because you don't like being reminded about your tantrums

Weirdly, I keep track of more things about this club then you do and I don't have the massive strops that you've done on here, yet I'm apparently the glory hunter so it should be me having the tantrums....

I've not even been the one accusing the owners of shady dealings or been trashing their tenure.

How odd is that...

Ok, maybe I didn't mean not a real fan, I meant a different type of football fan. You openly admitted yourself you switched teams, so why can't you switch again? I haven't accused the old owners of anything tbh

[RMutt]

Weird how Man Utd fans were onto the Glazers straight away, even if it achieved nothing. They could see what was coming and had loads of, albeit fruitless, campaigns and protests.

And they're supposed to be your classic TV viewing, fair weather glory hunters. Whereas us 'real' fans of our local club seem to have been completely taken in by the spin around a takeover which is leveraged in almost exactly the same way but without the safety net of being the world's biggest club.

. Well, I suppose the alternative bid was a bit of a distraction, especially as the ALK bid was said by those ‘in the know’ to be a good one. The other reason, I would imagine, is that most people realised there was nothing they could do about it. For all the United fans protests the Glazer takeover happened.

[dandeclaret]

Growth of revenue streams if done correctly will cover the debt payments and more.

True..... TV rights are agreed globally, so they are out. Other income is around £12 - £17m. So probably need to make another £15-£20m (Before tax, overheads etc) in order to pay the likely interest of £10m, and add nothing further to funds to move the club forwards. If they can triple + the income from those streams, we're well set. If they can't........

[dsr]

Of course, because they've sold it, but the new owners gave it to them.

You still don't get it. Surely you're deliberately misunderstanding, but I'll try again anyway.

We are bothered because BFC is £90m worse off - that is established by now - and that money has been confirmed as having been paid to Garlick and JohnB personally. That is the summary.

It is no use telling us that the money went via ALK's bank account. We aren't interested. The money has left BFC and arrived at Garlick and JohnB, and that's what is wrong.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

You still don't get it. Surely you're deliberately misunderstanding, but I'll try again anyway.

We are bothered because BFC is £90m worse off - that is established by now - and that money has been confirmed as having been paid to Garlick and JohnB personally. That is the summary.

It is no use telling us that the money went via ALK's bank account. We aren't interested. The money has left BFC and arrived at Garlick and JohnB, and that's what is wrong.

It is what it is, they sold a business and the new owners used funds from the business to pay for it.

Either carry on wasting your time weeping and wailing about it, or just accept its happened and move on.

[NottsClaret]

The other reason, I would imagine, is that most people realised there was nothing they could do about it. For all the United fans protests the Glazer takeover happened.

Sadly, yup, that's about right. So many fans of other clubs have tried to stop this sort of thing, but with no luck. Fans can't genuinely get involved until they're about to padlock the gates and you're at the bottom of League Two.

[Elizabeth]

As our club have been bought with such a high risk financial strategy let’s hope these new foreign owners are the real deal . Anything else and it doesn’t bear thinking about.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Ok, maybe I didn't mean not a real fan, I meant a different type of football fan. You openly admitted yourself you switched teams, so why can't you switch again? I haven't accused the old owners of anything tbh

What if I don't want to switch?
You're hoping I do, but I'm still here nearly 12 yrs later.

[Billy Balfour]

ALK have come in for unwarranted criticism, some of it fantastical, and they haven't even got their feel under the table. However, having said this, if I was a 'custodian' of our club, I would not have sold to a group using this financial model. I'll leave it at that and I'll judge them on what happens in the future.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

tbf a lot of my own perspectives are old fashioned

You understand the need for new fans though.

Many won't want that because they'll have a fear of the club losing its identity etc.

[jedi_master]

True..... TV rights are agreed globally, so they are out. Other income is around £12 - £17m. So probably need to make another £15-£20m (Before tax, overheads etc) in order to pay the likely interest of £10m, and add nothing further to funds to move the club forwards. If they can triple + the income from those streams, we're well set. If they can't........

Which is what leaves me asking “What is the actual upside to the club”.

It appears we’d need to sell a good player a year to service our debt whilst remaining a Premier League club, all the while knowing the money recouped would just go towards paying off our loan/Ex-Shareholders.

Where is the money that actually allows us to replace Bardsley, Hendrick, Lennon, Brady, Vydra etc if our player sales are predominantly already spoken for?

[DomBFC1882]

Which is what leaves me asking “What is the actual upside to the club”.

It appears we’d need to sell a good player a year to service our debt whilst remaining a Premier League club, all the while knowing the money recouped would just go towards paying off our loan/Ex-Shareholders.

Where is the money that actually allows us to replace Bardsley, Hendrick, Lennon, Brady, Vydra etc if our player sales are predominantly already spoken for?

This

People saying we shouldn't be concerned let alone talk about it need to go for a serious walk on their own.

That's life, do people on the news like Piers Morgan not talk about all the mistakes made in handling Covid etc? Shock horror, People are allowed to whinge and complain. You don't just have to accept everything in life and move on instantly without speaking about it.

[jrgbfc]

You understand the need for new fans though.

Many won't want that because they'll have a fear of the club losing its identity etc.

Unless our style of play changes dramatically i think its very optimistic to think we're going to start attracting legions of new fans, even with the best marketing in the world.

[KRBFC]

Which is what leaves me asking “What is the actual upside to the club”.

It appears we’d need to sell a good player a year to service our debt whilst remaining a Premier League club, all the while knowing the money recouped would just go towards paying off our loan/Ex-Shareholders.

Where is the money that actually allows us to replace Bardsley, Hendrick, Lennon, Brady, Vydra etc if our player sales are predominantly already spoken for?

Also, why should selling our players go towards funding ALK debts to MG and MSD? That money should be reinvested in the club.

[Vegas Claret]

just going to remind everybody that this new board comprises of some very experienced and successful people that have not only talked the talk but walked the walk. Obviously, buying a PL is new to them but just like a player doesn't lose their ability over night there is nothing to suggest that our new owners have suddenly abandoned all their business acumen - it's their reputation on the line too.

[Boss Hogg]

Having listened to Talk Sport and various interviews and articles we’ve no more money than before the takeover in fact we have a lot less. I wonder how many fans would have been in favour of it had they known this beforehand. To grow the brand will take time and to cultivate players will take time. It looks like player sales and more borrowing are the only ways we can afford new first team players.

[Tall Paul]

You still don't get it. Surely you're deliberately misunderstanding, but I'll try again anyway.

We are bothered because BFC is £90m worse off - that is established by now - and that money has been confirmed as having been paid to Garlick and JohnB personally. That is the summary.

It is no use telling us that the money went via ALK's bank account. We aren't interested. The money has left BFC and arrived at Garlick and JohnB, and that's what is wrong.

Where has it been established that the club is £90m worse off? And how have MG and co had the benefit of that given that there won't have been any change in their net worth as a result of the transaction?

[Dyched]

Thought he was a Burnley fan so this would make no sense at all. Let’s not pretend he’s had the type of grief for example Teasdale used to get. It’s only the past few years he’s had mostly social media criticism of our transfer policy.

It’s wasn’t just fans on social media. It was the manager at every available press conference over the past year or 2. Constantly undermined.

[kentonclaret]

"Where has it been established that the club is £90m worse off"?

Where?

That is what the article in The Guardian with the title "Burnley - US takeover has left club £90m worse off and loaded with debt" seeks to explain. Not just £90 million worse off but plus the added interest.