That second half display against Brighton...

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Post Reply
Mala591
Posts: 1887
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:02 pm
Been Liked: 681 times
Has Liked: 428 times

That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Mala591 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:44 am

It was an exciting and extremely entertaining attacking performance. A high tempo, technically confident, pass and move display which didn’t (just) rely on just crossing the ball into a crowded opposition box.

Imo this is SD’s biggest challenge - can he evolve our style of play more in line with our second half display against Brighton and still maintain a reasonable mid-table PL position?

Pace to Dyche: Sean, that is the way I want to see Burnley FC play. What do you need (from me and the other directors) to move the club’s football philosophy forward in that direction?

Stayingup
Posts: 5551
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:02 pm
Been Liked: 914 times
Has Liked: 2726 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Stayingup » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:48 am

Mala591 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:44 am
It was an exciting and extremely entertaining attacking performance. A high tempo, technically confident, pass and move display which didn’t (just) rely on just crossing the ball into a crowded opposition box.

Imo this is SD’s biggest challenge - can he evolve our style of play more in line with our second half display against Brighton and still maintain a reasonable mid-table PL position?

Pace to Dyche: Sean, that is the way I want to see Burnley FC play. What do you need (from me and the other directors) to move the club’s football philosophy forward in that direction?
Answer from SD. Manchester Citys forward line and midfield!!!

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14566
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:05 am

He's already proven he can do it, the season we finished 7th, which people seem to forget for some strange reason.

It's always been a case of finding players at the right price, but that was always going to mean looking abroad.

I'd hope the new owners have things put into place that allow us to do this now and be successful with it.

In 2011 Hoffenheim signed a little know Brazilian lad after their director of football spotted him whilst playing Football Manager.
He's now one of Liverpool usually formidable front 3, Firmino.

We don't appear to have utilised anything like that...

Dyche needs a team behind him to find these players by any means possible and "sell them" to him, then he can have a look for himself.

TheFamilyCat
Posts: 10843
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:56 pm
Been Liked: 5521 times
Has Liked: 208 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:08 am

Pace to Dyche: "I want to see you get results."
This user liked this post: dandeclaret

huw.Y.WattfromWare
Posts: 3393
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 7:04 pm
Been Liked: 1004 times
Has Liked: 905 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:24 am

We can play like that against anybody but the big 6 and get a result.
The problem is it is very difficult to change styles depending on the opposition. Pro footballers find a rhythm. Knowing where their regular partner is, what shouts to expect,etc.,
It was first class though and Vydra was the glue that pulled it all together.

gandhisflipflop
Posts: 5500
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:05 pm
Been Liked: 2319 times
Has Liked: 1399 times
Location: Costa del Padihamos beach.

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by gandhisflipflop » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:34 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:05 am
He's already proven he can do it, the season we finished 7th, which people seem to forget for some strange reason.

It's always been a case of finding players at the right price, but that was always going to mean looking abroad.

I'd hope the new owners have things put into place that allow us to do this now and be successful with it.

In 2011 Hoffenheim signed a little know Brazilian lad after their director of football spotted him whilst playing Football Manager.
He's now one of Liverpool usually formidable front 3, Firmino.

We don't appear to have utilised anything like that...

Dyche needs a team behind him to find these players by any means possible and "sell them" to him, then he can have a look for himself.
They should give me a call. I can give them a list of wonderkids for free through playing Football Manager! In all serious though, players are scouted in real life for Football Manager and it is a fantastic database in which to use for a really cheap cost. Even if it is used to point our scouts in the general direction of players for surther scouting and analysis.

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:47 am

We need more of that football, but we can't forget what has kept us up for so long. I would hate us to play gung ho football, as done by Leeds, it would get us relegated, but teams normally press in spells, its very rarely for a full 90mins, and when they take a step back we need to take 2 steps forward. The transition has been missing for a while. Even the back end of last season, when we did so well, we rarely had spells where we were on top for 10-15 minutes. We were always playing off the back foot, and creaming the dead ball situations.

RalphCoatesComb
Posts: 8049
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:38 pm
Been Liked: 2415 times
Has Liked: 2115 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:58 am

It was a really good performance but, it was Brighton, not Leicester, Chelsea, or even Everton.

Three of our players had their best games for us. I wish that could happen every game.

NewClaret
Posts: 13225
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3037 times
Has Liked: 3759 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by NewClaret » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:10 pm

Don't really see why it has to be a binary question - one style or the other.

Surely the answer is to mix it up, based on the opponent and the stage/score in the game? If we're playing top 6-9, there's no point trying to out pass them, we should stay in shape (arguably with more midfield cover against certain teams - City, United), and see if we can nick one from a long ball/set piece. I'm fine with that.

If we are playing bottom 10-12, you still want some defensive discipline (i.e. more than we demonstrated at Brighton in social distancing from Dunk) but hopefully you see more of the ball and try to play quick, passing football when you do, mixing it in with some long balls and set pieces.

I'd imagine it's a defenders worst nightmare to be dealing with different types of threat - players running in behind, then a cross, then a set piece. This seasons lack of goals is in part because our delivery has been poorer, but also teams have us sussed, give less set pieces away and know how to defend against them when they do - so the answer is to be less predictable!

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14566
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:16 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:34 am
They should give me a call. I can give them a list of wonderkids for free through playing Football Manager! In all serious though, players are scouted in real life for Football Manager and it is a fantastic database in which to use for a really cheap cost. Even if it is used to point our scouts in the general direction of players for surther scouting and analysis.
We all used to pay £5 million for Kompany, but there is always a Cherno Samba for counter balance :lol:
This user liked this post: gandhisflipflop

Chester Perry
Posts: 19173
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3116 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:26 pm

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:24 am
We can play like that against anybody but the big 6 and get a result.
The problem is it is very difficult to change styles depending on the opposition. Pro footballers find a rhythm. Knowing where their regular partner is, what shouts to expect,etc.,
It was first class though and Vydra was the glue that pulled it all together.
Football Manager already work with clubs - This may interest some of you https://www.sportspromedia.com/analysis ... -interview

A lot of people seem to assume that Dyche and the club don't use much technology, that is just nonsense, he has been keen on it and the analysis side for a long time, in the last 2-3 years the club has grown it's permanent staff by around a 100 people, I suspect at least a fifth of that is on the analysis side, one problem we have is that we cannot pay the wages of the biggest clubs and it appears that we regularly lose staff to them.
This user liked this post: huw.Y.WattfromWare

dandeclaret
Posts: 3516
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:55 am
Been Liked: 2569 times
Has Liked: 300 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by dandeclaret » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:34 pm

A while ago, people were giving 5's in the player ratings thread for players in a team winning 1-0 at Anfield.

At the weekend people were giving 8's and 9's for a 1-1 draw at home against Brighton.

Do we as fans collectively appreciate style over substance?

Spike
Posts: 2682
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:07 pm
Been Liked: 595 times
Has Liked: 1225 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Spike » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:05 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:08 am
Pace to Dyche: "I want to see you get results."
The rest of the world to Pace : I thought you were going to Support Dyche to get those results!

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14566
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:07 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:34 pm
A while ago, people were giving 5's in the player ratings thread for players in a team winning 1-0 at Anfield.

At the weekend people were giving 8's and 9's for a 1-1 draw at home against Brighton.

Do we as fans collectively appreciate style over substance?
Personally I'm about winning, but someone has said to me on here during a discussion that they're all about pretty football irrespective of results.

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by MACCA » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:11 pm

I dont think Dyche will sway far from his beliefs and style.

He is similar to Pulis and Allardyce was, and I dont think he is the type to revert to short, sharp pass and move type football.

Herts Clarets
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:18 pm
Been Liked: 1754 times
Has Liked: 469 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Herts Clarets » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:23 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:07 pm
Personally I'm about winning, but someone has said to me on here during a discussion that they're all about pretty football irrespective of results.
Like Bournemouth fans were last season you mean?
This user liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81

CoolClaret
Posts: 7123
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 2159 times
Has Liked: 2047 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by CoolClaret » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:30 pm

I think Dyche has a formula for success and he isn't overly reactionary; if we are doing enough of 'x' over a 38 game period then he believes it will be enough to remain in the Premier League, 'x' being a plethora of footballing related statistics.

This is why I believe Dyche isn't over reactionary after a loss or a win - his greatest strength his level headedness is in a way his biggest flaw stubbornness...

Some managers after a whimsical display and a bad loss may chop and change en masse but.. does that really lend them any better off in the long run?

For me, Dyche just plays the way in which he thinks we will have the best chance at remaining in the game and perhaps producing enough to nick a goal, which over the course of a season (as has been shown now) is enough to keep us up..

Perhaps, if our squad was filled with some more technical and athletic players he may choose to be a bit more expansive as we saw when we've had Defour and even the Vings partnership.

Wouldn't want anyone else managing our team right now though that's for sure!
This user liked this post: Cubanclaret

jollyjack
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 107 times
Has Liked: 20 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by jollyjack » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:31 pm

Finally some people starting to see what we're about. We've always mixed play up. Efficient back to front or quickly moving the ball around for possession, looking for gaps. Never been one or the other, always a mixture of tempo play with good passing and energetic disruptive effort. Cant label SD as one or the other, he buys according to his budget, gets the most from what he's got and tries to attack when we have an opportunity. Generally perceived as industrious/hoofball, there are plenty of periods of play I see and think are good football.

Sleeping Cat
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:13 am
Been Liked: 164 times
Has Liked: 33 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Sleeping Cat » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:36 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:34 pm
A while ago, people were giving 5's in the player ratings thread for players in a team winning 1-0 at Anfield.

At the weekend people were giving 8's and 9's for a 1-1 draw at home against Brighton.

Do we as fans collectively appreciate style over substance?

You can play poorly and win just as you can play well but lose.

dandeclaret
Posts: 3516
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:55 am
Been Liked: 2569 times
Has Liked: 300 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by dandeclaret » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:51 pm

Sleeping Cat wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:36 pm
You can play poorly and win just as you can play well but lose.
You can.... can Burnley play poorly and win at Liverpool?

Sleeping Cat
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:13 am
Been Liked: 164 times
Has Liked: 33 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Sleeping Cat » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:52 pm

What stands out to me about the second half display vs Brighton.

1. McNeil & JBG started the match on the wings. in 442 wing play is always important for attacking and these two are our best wingers. Technically good, able to carry the ball and cross and (also crucial) good at tracking back, They're hardly started together over the last 18-24 months so it makes a difference with both of them playing rather than (majority of the time) a makeshift winger.

2. Vydra starting up front. he offers something different to our other 3 senior strikers. He's quick so defences have to drop a bit deeper to accommodate the risk of him getting in behind. Too often when Banes and Wood start together the lack of movement makes our forward play too predictable. This is less so with Jay, who's quite athletic with out being "quick" like Vydra. Personally I would always play one of Wood or Barnes with one of Jay or Vydra to make sure there is enough movement up front to be less predictable.

3. Cork's return to the side. Cork is a classy and experienced player. Reads the game well, solid positioning when he doesn't have the ball and positive when he does. I really like Brownhill and think he is already becoming an important player for us offering a more dynamic box to box style, but Cork has made a difference since coming casually back into the side like he never left.

Sleeping Cat
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:13 am
Been Liked: 164 times
Has Liked: 33 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Sleeping Cat » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:53 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:51 pm
You can.... can Burnley play poorly and win at Liverpool?
Not in the performance I watched, everyone was outstanding. Some fans are just clueless :lol:
These 2 users liked this post: Danieljwaterhouse GodIsADeeJay81

Danieljwaterhouse
Posts: 1009
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:55 pm
Been Liked: 308 times
Has Liked: 350 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:14 pm

RalphCoatesComb wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:58 am
It was a really good performance but, it was Brighton, not Leicester, Chelsea, or even Everton.

Three of our players had their best games for us. I wish that could happen every game.
Exactly this, we’d get opened up like a Kardashian on camera if we tried to play even 15 yards further up the pitch.

Danieljwaterhouse
Posts: 1009
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:55 pm
Been Liked: 308 times
Has Liked: 350 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:24 pm

Sleeping Cat wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:52 pm
What stands out to me about the second half display vs Brighton.

1. McNeil & JBG started the match on the wings. in 442 wing play is always important for attacking and these two are our best wingers. Technically good, able to carry the ball and cross and (also crucial) good at tracking back, They're hardly started together over the last 18-24 months so it makes a difference with both of them playing rather than (majority of the time) a makeshift winger.

2. Vydra starting up front. he offers something different to our other 3 senior strikers. He's quick so defences have to drop a bit deeper to accommodate the risk of him getting in behind. Too often when Banes and Wood start together the lack of movement makes our forward play too predictable. This is less so with Jay, who's quite athletic with out being "quick" like Vydra. Personally I would always play one of Wood or Barnes with one of Jay or Vydra to make sure there is enough movement up front to be less predictable.

3. Cork's return to the side. Cork is a classy and experienced player. Reads the game well, solid positioning when he doesn't have the ball and positive when he does. I really like Brownhill and think he is already becoming an important player for us offering a more dynamic box to box style, but Cork has made a difference since coming casually back into the side like he never left.
Vydra is a quality footballer, but his impact is in some way down to the fact that teams prepare for Burnley and how we play football. Vydra isn’t typical of our ‘style of play’ and so impacts the game accordingly. Opposition players will
consciously or sub consciously prepare for the task at hand. Changing that embedded mindset is difficult and is a skill that some of our players will never be able to exercise.

I do think Vydra at a Liverpool or United would score buckets.

Coaching used to be about repetitive action, muscle memory, updating the ‘toolkit’ in your head so you can respond to a set fixed picture.

Nowadays it’s equipping player to recognise situations, adapt firstly their response, and then influence others to adapt theirs. Potter at Brighton is recruiting players that can do this, change shape in response to the opposition, in game. They have three or four systems that the employ to nullify the opposition.

Mings is a great CB, not because he’s better than Tarks, but because he is being coached to be able to recognise what’s in front of him and reorganise the shape and purpose of the team, in game.

Mee is a fantastic CB in our system, he would be exposed in another more expansive system. Tarks I feel could play in a more expansive, problem orientated system. McGuire can’t, he needs an intelligent CB next to him. If United had Silva next to him, he would look and be world class.

Goodclaret
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:44 pm
Been Liked: 543 times
Has Liked: 1506 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Goodclaret » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:25 pm

I have faith in Dyche being able to mix play much more as and when we get the better, more technically gifted players in. He showed, in the Championship, what good, attaching football we could play. We also showed we could dig in too. The thing is with the PL you have to dig in a little bit more as you are up against far better players. The myth we will never play good football under Dyche, for me, is exactly that. When Defour was here, we played some brilliant football - the key is that we had a gem like Defour playing for us.

You play to the best of your player abilities to ensure you get the best results. Dyche would be sacked playing lovely football but losing or drawing most games as we would, more likely than not, be relegated. You give Dyche the City squad and I'm pretty sure the more direct football would disappear.

IWOODLOVETT
Posts: 1255
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:23 am
Been Liked: 495 times
Has Liked: 219 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by IWOODLOVETT » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:40 pm

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:24 pm
Vydra is a quality footballer, but his impact is in some way down to the fact that teams prepare for Burnley and how we play football. Vydra isn’t typical of our ‘style of play’ and so impacts the game accordingly. Opposition players will
consciously or sub consciously prepare for the task at hand. Changing that embedded mindset is difficult and is a skill that some of our players will never be able to exercise.

I do think Vydra at a Liverpool or United would score buckets.

Coaching used to be about repetitive action, muscle memory, updating the ‘toolkit’ in your head so you can respond to a set fixed picture.

Nowadays it’s equipping player to recognise situations, adapt firstly their response, and then influence others to adapt theirs. Potter at Brighton is recruiting players that can do this, change shape in response to the opposition, in game. They have three or four systems that the employ to nullify the opposition.

Mings is a great CB, not because he’s better than Tarks, but because he is being coached to be able to recognise what’s in front of him and reorganise the shape and purpose of the team, in game.

Mee is a fantastic CB in our system, he would be exposed in another more expansive system. Tarks I feel could play in a more expansive, problem orientated system. McGuire can’t, he needs an intelligent CB next to him. If United had Silva next to him, he would look and be world class.
Agreed and that is why SD generally sticks to the same team and format.

The reason for conceding a rare goal from a corner against Brighton was mainly down to the absence of Chris Wood. Our set piece routines are extensively tried and trusted - everyone knows his job. Wood’s job, like Vokes’ before him, is to pick up his marker (Dunk) but he was missing and so was his usual replacement (Rodriguez). Vydra was not at fault for the goal, but was unaccustomed to the set piece routine and the pattern was disrupted.

StTedsOB
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:50 pm
Been Liked: 25 times
Has Liked: 4 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by StTedsOB » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:02 pm

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:24 pm
Vydra is a quality footballer, but his impact is in some way down to the fact that teams prepare for Burnley and how we play football. Vydra isn’t typical of our ‘style of play’ and so impacts the game accordingly. Opposition players will
consciously or sub consciously prepare for the task at hand. Changing that embedded mindset is difficult and is a skill that some of our players will never be able to exercise.

I do think Vydra at a Liverpool or United would score buckets.

Coaching used to be about repetitive action, muscle memory, updating the ‘toolkit’ in your head so you can respond to a set fixed picture.

Nowadays it’s equipping player to recognise situations, adapt firstly their response, and then influence others to adapt theirs. Potter at Brighton is recruiting players that can do this, change shape in response to the opposition, in game. They have three or four systems that the employ to nullify the opposition.

Mings is a great CB, not because he’s better than Tarks, but because he is being coached to be able to recognise what’s in front of him and reorganise the shape and purpose of the team, in game.

Mee is a fantastic CB in our system, he would be exposed in another more expansive system. Tarks I feel could play in a more expansive, problem orientated system. McGuire can’t, he needs an intelligent CB next to him. If United had Silva next to him, he would look and be world class.
What evidence is there in Vydra’s career that he would score ‘buckets’ at any Premier League club ? I like Vydra and I like him as an option for Burnley but there is a reason why he is usually on the bench for a poor international side and that he’s not scored bucket full of goals at multiple Premier league teams now (all playing different styles). He might score a few more at Liverpool or United because of the chances he would have but he would also miss a lot more too...these teams are looking for people who can score 20 plus a season and not 6 or 7.

As for Mings being a ‘great’ centre back let’s just say that’s not a word I would use personally to describe him. He cost a lot of money and has had half a good season in the Premier League....he was awful last year in a team that shipped loads of goals. Maguire, Tarks and Ben Mee are all much better players and have performed in this league for much longer than Mings.
If United has Silva next to Maguire they’d be even slower at the back than they already are and also be changing partners for Maguire for half the games given he’s 37 this season and injured a lot.

Ric_C
Posts: 2050
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:22 am
Been Liked: 742 times
Has Liked: 122 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Ric_C » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:03 pm

I'd love to see Charlie back, JBG have an injury free half a season, and then see Vydra and Wood upfront. Think that would be a good watch for the remaining games

northeastclaret
Posts: 857
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:32 pm
Been Liked: 307 times
Has Liked: 195 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by northeastclaret » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:16 pm

Dyche said after the Brighton match that at half time he said to the players to play with more freedom and come out of the framework. He instructed that change but obviously in most games he prefers the players to stick to their roles and not make runs and move into areas other areas of the pitch , which would surprise the opponents, but also leave is more open.

Danieljwaterhouse
Posts: 1009
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:55 pm
Been Liked: 308 times
Has Liked: 350 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:50 pm

StTedsOB wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:02 pm
What evidence is there in Vydra’s career that he would score ‘buckets’ at any Premier League club ? I like Vydra and I like him as an option for Burnley but there is a reason why he is usually on the bench for a poor international side and that he’s not scored bucket full of goals at multiple Premier league teams now (all playing different styles). He might score a few more at Liverpool or United because of the chances he would have but he would also miss a lot more too...these teams are looking for people who can score 20 plus a season and not 6 or 7.

As for Mings being a ‘great’ centre back let’s just say that’s not a word I would use personally to describe him. He cost a lot of money and has had half a good season in the Premier League....he was awful last year in a team that shipped loads of goals. Maguire, Tarks and Ben Mee are all much better players and have performed in this league for much longer than Mings.
If United has Silva next to Maguire they’d be even slower at the back than they already are and also be changing partners for Maguire for half the games given he’s 37 this season and injured a lot.
Mings is a communicator, he’s an intelligent footballer. He is better than Mee and Tarks, although Tarks has the potential to be at the same level, given the right platform.

Bamford = Vydra

bfcmik
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:03 pm
Been Liked: 891 times
Has Liked: 1100 times
Location: Solihull Geriatric Centre

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by bfcmik » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:24 pm

That second half display at Brighton seems like a lifetime ago after the 1st half v Bournemouth!

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Spijed » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:24 pm

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:50 pm
Mings is a communicator, he’s an intelligent footballer. He is better than Mee and Tarks
You might catch a few with that one!

Danieljwaterhouse
Posts: 1009
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:55 pm
Been Liked: 308 times
Has Liked: 350 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:29 pm

Spijed wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:24 pm
You might catch a few with that one!
Genuine thoughts, echoed by the national coach
This user liked this post: Burnley1989

StTedsOB
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:50 pm
Been Liked: 25 times
Has Liked: 4 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by StTedsOB » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:45 pm

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:50 pm
Mings is a communicator, he’s an intelligent footballer. He is better than Mee and Tarks, although Tarks has the potential to be at the same level, given the right platform.

Bamford = Vydra
Mings - half a good season in Premier League. Not great for a player who is nearly 28 years old who has been sold for about £30m in total and now in his 6th season in the premier league....late bloomer you think ?

Bamford = Vydra ?
Pity for Vydra nobody else in football agrees with you or else they would be banging his agents door down every transfer window instead of being linked only with a bottom half German team in the 3 or 4 years he’s been at Burnley.

Danieljwaterhouse
Posts: 1009
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:55 pm
Been Liked: 308 times
Has Liked: 350 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:48 pm

StTedsOB wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:45 pm
Mings - half a good season in Premier League. Not great for a player who is nearly 28 years old who has been sold for about £30m in total and now in his 6th season in the premier league....late bloomer you think ?

Bamford = Vydra ?
Pity for Vydra nobody else in football agrees with you or else they would be banging his agents door down every transfer window instead of being linked only with a bottom half German team in the 3 or 4 years he’s been at Burnley.
Bamford is scoring goals now he’s in the right system, didn’t do anything for anyone in the wrong system. He’s likely to get an England cap shortly.

I think Mings is showing his class and has done every time I’ve seen him play in the premier league.

Let’s agree to disagree. Football in your day was different to the word it is now, or even was 10 years ago.

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Spijed » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:59 pm

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:29 pm
Genuine thoughts, echoed by the national coach
The same national coach who was quoted as saying Pickford hasn't any competition?

Hardly a good example

StTedsOB
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:50 pm
Been Liked: 25 times
Has Liked: 4 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by StTedsOB » Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:08 pm

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:48 pm

Football in your day was different to the word it is now, or even was 10 years ago.
Haha - are you 12 ?

It’s world not word
And it’s Maguire not McGuire

What day is spelling for you Daniel ?

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11039
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1559 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:13 pm

StTedsOB wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:45 pm
Mings - half a good season in Premier League. Not great for a player who is nearly 28 years old who has been sold for about £30m in total and now in his 6th season in the premier league....late bloomer you think ?

Bamford = Vydra ?
Pity for Vydra nobody else in football agrees with you or else they would be banging his agents door down every transfer window instead of being linked only with a bottom half German team in the 3 or 4 years he’s been at Burnley.
Tarks is a better defender, but Mings is considerably better on the ball. Depends what you are looking for and how that fits in to your team. I would argue all the top/best teams want ball players rather than defenders. You can see why DJ has said Mings is better, as he is likely to play at a higher level (eg Euros)

Bamford and Vydra similar players. Bamford has proven he can score at premier league level now. Vydra has played very well but has struggled to put the ball in the net. Can see again why DJ has said that.

Football is All about opinions
This user liked this post: Danieljwaterhouse

StTedsOB
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:50 pm
Been Liked: 25 times
Has Liked: 4 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by StTedsOB » Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:18 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:13 pm
Tarks is a better defender, but Mings is considerably better on the ball. Depends what you are looking for and how that fits in to your team. I would argue all the top/best teams want ball players rather than defenders. You can see why DJ has said Mings is better, as he is likely to play at a higher level (eg Euros)

Bamford and Vydra similar players. Bamford has proven he can score at premier league level now. Vydra has played very well but has struggled to put the ball in the net. Can see again why DJ has said that.

Football is All about opinions
I get it’s about opinions....but it’s not “all” about opinions. Facts and evidence go along way too.
Calling Tyrone Mings a “great’ defender when he has out of 6 seasons in the premier league one half of a good season is as you say somebodies opinion but it doesn’t mean that it’s not a bit daft !

Cubanclaret
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:35 am
Been Liked: 286 times
Has Liked: 139 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Cubanclaret » Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:20 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:30 pm
I think Dyche has a formula for success and he isn't overly reactionary; if we are doing enough of 'x' over a 38 game period then he believes it will be enough to remain in the Premier League, 'x' being a plethora of footballing related statistics.

This is why I believe Dyche isn't over reactionary after a loss or a win - his greatest strength his level headedness is in a way his biggest flaw stubbornness...

Some managers after a whimsical display and a bad loss may chop and change en masse but.. does that really lend them any better off in the long run?

For me, Dyche just plays the way in which he thinks we will have the best chance at remaining in the game and perhaps producing enough to nick a goal, which over the course of a season (as has been shown now) is enough to keep us up..

Perhaps, if our squad was filled with some more technical and athletic players he may choose to be a bit more expansive as we saw when we've had Defour and even the Vings partnership.

Wouldn't want anyone else managing our team right now though that's for sure!
Spot on Cool. Add to that his reason for rigid formation and scant regard for substitutions. Dyche’s most underrated virtue is the discipline we play with, underpins everything we do and this combination of attributes is responsible for our consistent points haul year on year. Amazes me how many of our fans still seem to struggle to understand it - the percentages - and would rather break the mould with knee jerk changes and over reaction.
This user liked this post: CoolClaret

Danieljwaterhouse
Posts: 1009
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:55 pm
Been Liked: 308 times
Has Liked: 350 times

Re: That second half display against Brighton...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:53 pm

StTedsOB wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:08 pm
Haha - are you 12 ?

It’s world not word
And it’s Maguire not McGuire

What day is spelling for you Daniel ?
What a worrying post. Do you often attempt to belittle people for your perceived lack of education?

Firstly, anyone on this board could have an additional need, dyslexia for example. I don’t, but but to call people out without thought as to the impact that may have, is worrying.

Secondly, I could happily pick apart your grammar, in your reply. I won’t.

People are so empowered to be so disgraceful in their interactions with each other, because it’s ‘on a message board’.

Let’s agree to disagree, I feel that we won’t and wouldn’t have much in common.

Post Reply