Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Ok, let me extend the question….
Had Kul’s double fisted punch resulted in Vydra being knocked out cold and then having to leave the pitch in a neck brace as a precaution, would the penalty have been given by VAR?
I’m pretty certain that had that been the case and dare I say it, had it come from a two fisted punch with less force, then the decision would have been different!!
Had Kul’s double fisted punch resulted in Vydra being knocked out cold and then having to leave the pitch in a neck brace as a precaution, would the penalty have been given by VAR?
I’m pretty certain that had that been the case and dare I say it, had it come from a two fisted punch with less force, then the decision would have been different!!
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Tony please could you ask is there a way to speed up the decisions ie no decision after say 20 seconds advantage to the attacking team, why not straight after the games the VAR panel explain decisions live on tv, it would be very interesting and better then the bland programmes we have now, why there's not enough retrospective punishment, and views on ex.pros being fast tracked as refs or at least on the VAR panel.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
I did say that would have been a foul had that scenario happened but it never did, sometimes you can feel hard done by by the disappointment & next day see things differently with more clarity & understand things better.
Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
The only thing to understand is did VAR look at it, there certainly didn’t seem to be a check, and if not why not. The rest is very clear, the referee got it badly wrong.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:00 pmI did say that would been a foul had that scenario happened but it never did, sometimes you can feel hard done by by the disappointment & next day see things differently with more clarity & understand things better.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Web go back to this "clear and obvious error" thing.
Highly subject to interpretation.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
I think the exact thing the commentator said is that the fans don’t have the benefit of the monitors, if you can say that you can see better sat yards away than somebody sat in front of a screen with the benefit of pause & freeze frame & zoom fair dos you are a better man than me.
Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Friend thought Krul touched the ball giving a corner. The replays show he didn’t. How clear and obvious does it need to be?boatshed bill wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:06 pmWeb go back to this "clear and obvious error" thing.
Highly subject to interpretation.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Most obvious pen and red you'll see all season. Krul has literally double fisted Vydra's head after being beaten to it.
Considering the talks around removing heading at younger ages, for the seriousness around head injuries, I find it bizarre for this to be considered acceptable.
Considering the talks around removing heading at younger ages, for the seriousness around head injuries, I find it bizarre for this to be considered acceptable.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
What do people think the decision would be if Wood reached a ball before Hanley and Hanley went two feet through the back of him. Likely a red and pen (unless Friends the ref again!). There is no difference, the player has been beaten to the ball in the box and has gone through the back of the attacker. I can accept people saying they might not give a red but it's a stone wall penalty.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Not really, the pictures don’t show Krul getting a touch to the ball.
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2 minutes injury time
No goals obviously but six subs and a lot of time wasting (which we do a lot away from home) but how on earth was 2 mins given????
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Did they ACTUALLY look at it at all?
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Re: 2 minutes injury time
You could have included that into another moaning thread.
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Re: 2 minutes injury time
Does it matter?
We wouldn't have scored if we played all night against 11 dustbins in yellow shirts.
We wouldn't have scored if we played all night against 11 dustbins in yellow shirts.
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Re: 2 minutes injury time
That would’ve been a tougher opposition to be fairElectroClaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:34 pmDoes it matter?
We wouldn't have scored if we played all night against 11 dustbins in yellow shirts.
Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
That’s a question I’ve asked above. It doesn’t seem like it which I find incredible.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Even if Krul touched the ball, which he didn’t, it should still be a penalty because he punched an opposing player in the head. Would it have been a penalty had Hanley gone up for a header and punched Vydra in the head?
Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Lots of people around us surprised today at that speed at which the decisions relating to possible use of var or not were made.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
I don't begin to know the parameters, but it suggests to me that the off-pitch decision makers didn't see it as a clear and obvious (I hate this terminology) error by the ref.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Has anyone seen a super slow-mo? Is there the slightest chance that Krul actually did brush the ball?
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Re: 2 minutes injury time
You may be right, and in fact we may have been sucker punched by Norwich, but that doesn’t make the referee’s inconsistent timekeeping right does it?ElectroClaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:34 pmDoes it matter?
We wouldn't have scored if we played all night against 11 dustbins in yellow shirts.
Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
I’m not sure what your point is but the argument is that they should be making proper use of the technology. At best someone has given this a cursory glance and I haven’t seen a replay that shows Krul touching the ball.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:49 pmWhy bother with all the technology when you’ve got a pair of eyes hundreds of yards away to depend upon.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Made all the more frustrating seeing Martin Atkinson called over to look at the monitor and overturn two of his decisions in the Chelsea game.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Maybe somebody already has but nobody’s informed Martin p on the beehole forum, a thread as been started questioning the officiating & then doubts are emerging that krul could have touched the ball? Bit late in the day.
Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
If I could make sense of your post I’d respond.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:55 pmMaybe somebody already has but nobody’s informed Martin p on the beehole forum, a thread as been started questioning the officiating & then doubts are emerging that krul could have touched the ball? Bit late in the day.
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Re: 2 minutes injury time
Yeah we’d have scored 4 if we’d have been have given a big longer..Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:30 pmNo goals obviously but six subs and a lot of time wasting (which we do a lot away from home) but how on earth was 2 mins given????
Re: 2 minutes injury time
There were 5 subs in the second half and one of those was a double sub, so 2 minutes can be justified. However he hasn’t added on a single second for all the warnings he gave Krul for time wasting.Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:30 pmNo goals obviously but six subs and a lot of time wasting (which we do a lot away from home) but how on earth was 2 mins given????
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Re: 2 minutes injury time
Exactly. What was he telling the keeper every time he was obviously time wasting?
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Re: 2 minutes injury time
Oh JakubJakubclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:32 pmYou could have included that into another moaning thread.
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Re: 2 minutes injury time
Maybe 3 but good point. I’m with you.Andreshotboots wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:03 pmYeah we’d have scored 4 if we’d have been have given a big longer..
Re: 2 minutes injury time
I always time the stoppage time from 90 minutes and there’s was 2 minutes 50 played today. Thing is, over a minute of the injury time after 90 minutes was taken up with an injury, so the ref also got that wrong too
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Re: 2 minutes injury time
It was his final insult. His last chance to say 'look at me, I'm in charge'. An appalling performance from presumably one of our finest. With people like him.at the helm the game is going further backwards than I already thought it was. His grinning at the chanting towards him summed up the his imbecilic persona. A truly despicable character to be put in charge of a live performance in front of thousands of honest, paying customers.
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Re: 2 minutes injury time
I lost count of the times he told their keeper to hurry up. Very strange alround.
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Re: 2 minutes injury time
Could of played for another 2 hours we weren't scoring
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
It cannot be interpreted that it was not intentional he was attempting to deliberately punch the ball clearJakubclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:37 pmBecause rightly or wrongly the interpretation is that it wasn’t intentional despite catching vydra, krul had his eyes firmly fixed on the ball & yes he was late, had vydra made contact with krul first it would have been a foul the goalkeeper got the benefit of the doubt. If we was on say 6 to 8 pts already would such a big deal been made of this no, it’s disappointing because the support expected 3pts against 1 of the worst teams at home.
The non intentional rule can surely only be applied to a hand ball
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Referees thrive these days of getting themselves in the limelight. They know there is a cushy number in the tv studios waiting for them.
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Re: 2 minutes injury time
Do you think he based it on that?Sheedyclaret wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:58 amCould of played for another 2 hours we weren't scoring
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
I'm sure VAR checks should be displayed on the big screen, e. g. Checking possible *'' '' '' * and don't remember a single incident appearing yesterday.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
And this is why I so much prefer Rugby Union. The incident in question is replayed on the big screens and you can hear the ref and VAR official actually discussing their interpretations before they reach a decision. So much more transparent and fair plus the refs don't take any crap from the players. Backchat to a ref and they march you 10 metres further up the field to take the penalty. I'd love that in football.
Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
There are dozens of things that can be done to improve VAR (including getting rid of it) but Can you ask if it will be possible to get rid of not flagging for offside when an attacker is offside and the linesman is virtually certain of it? As it stands, the current approach allows play to continue that will eventually count for nothing, goal celebrations to begin that will eventually be curtailed and possibly needless injuries to players. The assistant will almost always be right. There’s just no need for this nonsense that caters for just a tiny number of wrong decisions that could chalk off a goal.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:19 pmI'm in a meeting on Monday morning with Mike Riley on VAR - I was wondering if any of you had any questions.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Please could you ask at what frame rate VAR operates at, and as such what is the error of margin when you consider opposing players could be travelling a net speed of approx 18 m/s (9m/s in opposing directions).ClaretTony wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:19 pmI'm in a meeting on Monday morning with Mike Riley on VAR - I was wondering if any of you had any questions.
At that net speed the margin of errors are below (if my calcs are right!):
50fps - 36cm
100fps - 18cm
200fps - 9cm
400fps - 4.5cm
Given that limb speed is also a factor (leg can be moving at a higher speed than the body relative to the ground) why are the lines that appear to be used corresponding to approx 2cm (difficult to judge) how can they expect accurate results for offside?
Perhaps a Sky documentary to explain how it all works… including the mathematical explanations.
Secondly, if a player is punched clearly in the head by an opponent, why is that not an instant red card (and penalty if inside the box)?
Good luck CT
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
I’m a goalkeeper and I don’t think I’ve ever hit anyone in the head. However, I don’t think that was a red card offence. There was no deliberate intent there: it was a clear attempt to punch the ball, BUT he messed up and punched (fouled) our man. It was 100% a foul.
Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Bad day at the office yesterday. But everyone can agree we are getting zero luck and decisions so far this season. We probably should be on around 7-8 points by now with the rub of the green.
As for the time wasting. Krul must have wasted 20-30 seconds every goal kick. Plus Friend seemed to take an absolute age over any free kick near the box. Should have been 5 mins plus easy.
Crazy display by all officials yesterday and is testing my patience with var.
Can you imagine if Pope did that to Ronaldo at old Trafford? You can guarantee the outcome.
As for the time wasting. Krul must have wasted 20-30 seconds every goal kick. Plus Friend seemed to take an absolute age over any free kick near the box. Should have been 5 mins plus easy.
Crazy display by all officials yesterday and is testing my patience with var.
Can you imagine if Pope did that to Ronaldo at old Trafford? You can guarantee the outcome.
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Re: Matchday officials, VAR and accountability
Serious foul play is a sending off offence, it’s black and white - intent is irrelevant. Serious foul play is defined as;jdrobbo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:52 amI’m a goalkeeper and I don’t think I’ve ever hit anyone in the head. However, I don’t think that was a red card offence. There was no deliberate intent there: it was a clear attempt to punch the ball, BUT he messed up and punched (fouled) our man. It was 100% a foul.
A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.
Yesterday James Ward-Prowse was sent off for serious foul play, following a VAR review and the referee checking the monitor. He also didn’t set out to intentionally harm his opponent but he endangered the safety of his opponent.
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