When did it start to go wrong
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
It’s not gone wrong yet and while things could have looked better after the Leeds game there is enough time to turn the season around.
I think it is right to ask big questions of Dyche who I am pointing the finger at for results this season. I expect him to change his tactics while keeping his values . Otherwise I will hold him responsible for any relegation that might happen
I think it is right to ask big questions of Dyche who I am pointing the finger at for results this season. I expect him to change his tactics while keeping his values . Otherwise I will hold him responsible for any relegation that might happen
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
Mr Dyche must surely now be wearing his brown trousers after that.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
Promotion to the Prem
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
We've missed out on strengthening in 2, 3 or 4 transfer windows.
Re: When did it start to go wrong
Simply this. For whatever reason, be it Garlick being tight with financing deals, a poor scouting network with a reluctance to go overseas and Dyche having a fixed ‘type’ that he wants in - probably a combination of all of that.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
A change in tactics would require players capable of carrying them out; our centre backs are not going to become creative just because SD tells them to be (remember JT trying on Sunday?), nor are Wood/Jay-Rod/Barnes/Lennon/JBG going to get any faster or Vydra less panic-stricken in front of goal.
As to the scape-goating of Mike Garlick (we love a scapegoat on here) I notice that those now berating him for selling the club are in the main the same ones who called for him to sell/leave 'their' club; presumably what they meant was for MG to get out of 'their' club, but leave your money behind?
I don't believe that it's gone 'wrong' yet, only if/when we get relegated will we know that. Being an average Championship side is a success for a club the size of Burnley, any time spent in the Premiership's just a bonus. The best thing about the MG/BF financial model was that we could afford to drop to the Championship in a manner which'd likely see us quickly return to the EPL and at worst remain solvent; the future - be it this year or later - will show whether ALK can do similar.
Re: When did it start to go wrong
Remember when we used to applaud the “he didn’t bet the ranch” tribute to Barry Kilby at the back of JHU? Perhaps we now need to paint a revision of this along the lines of “ Barry didn’t want to bet the ranch but Garlick just wanted to line his pockets” ?
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
The rot set in exactly twelve months ago. It was January 2021 when a misery virus crept down from NE England
Its sole purpose was to infect everyone with a negative vibe and to bring despair to all Clarets fans. It's a naughty little thing full of spite and spikes and has the scientific name of Newcastleclaret. At the moment there is no known cure and it is expected to continue to grow the longer BFC stays in the relegation zone.
Its sole purpose was to infect everyone with a negative vibe and to bring despair to all Clarets fans. It's a naughty little thing full of spite and spikes and has the scientific name of Newcastleclaret. At the moment there is no known cure and it is expected to continue to grow the longer BFC stays in the relegation zone.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
Really interesting when you post it like that, don’t think we should forget investment in the club infrastructureClaretMov wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:36 amIt started to go wrong when the scouts and recruitment team at Burnley failed to bring in hardly any player's (especially when we could play a few games in Europe) that have been turn into better player's and sold for profit, this is the only way a club like ours can survive at the top table along with the sky money because we make next to nothing compared to those with match day revenue.
Our signings in the Dyche era whilst in the premier league have been
2014/15
Michael Kightly undisclosed
Matt Gilks Free
Matthew Taylor Free
Marvin Sordell undisclosed
Steven Reid Free
Lukas Jutkiewicz £1,500,000
Stephen Ward undisclosed
George Boyd £3,000,000
Michael Keane undisclosed
Fredrik Ulvestad undisclosed
Matthew Lowton £1,000,000
2016/17
Johann Berg Gudmundsson undisclosed
Nick Pope undisclosed
Jimmy Dunne undisclosed
Steven Defour £8,000,000
Jeff Hendrick £10,500,000
Joey Barton undisclosed
Ashley Westwood undisclosed
Robbie Brady £13,000,000
2017/18
Charlie Taylor £6,000,000
Jonathan Walters £3,000,000
Jack Cork £10,000,000
Phil Bardsley undisclosed
Adam Legzdins undisclosed
Chris Wood £15,000,000
Nahki Wells £5,000,000
Aaron Lennon undisclosed
2018/19
Joe Hart £3,500,000
Ben Gibson £15,000,000
Matej Vydra £11,000,000
Peter Crouch Part ex deal
Erik Pieters £1,000,000
Jay Rodriguez £10,000,000
2019/20
Bailey Peacock-Farrell £2,500,000
Josh Brownhill £9,000,000
2020/21
Will Norris undisclosed
Dale Stephens £1,000,000
2021/22
Wayne Hennessey Free
Aaron Lennon Free
Maxwell Cornet £12,850,000
Connor Roberts £2,500,000
Nathan Collins £12,000,000
Not many star's to pick out of this lot.
About £184 million spent on player's part funded by player sale's (only including big fee's) for keane, Gray and Heaton, this bringing in around 44 million.
Out of the average £144 million spent and I'm only counting £3+ million players we signed we could/have got back
George Boyd £3,000,000 - Nothing
Steven Defour £8,000,000 - Nothing
Jeff Hendrick £10,500,000 - Nothing
Robbie Brady £13,000,000 - Nothing
Charlie Taylor £6,000,000 - Worth more
Jonathan Walters £3,000,000 - Nothing
Jack Cork £10,000,000 - Nothing
Chris Wood £15,000,000 Worth £10 million on a good day
Nahki Wells £5,000,000 - Sold at same price
Joe Hart £3,500,000 - Nothing
Ben Gibson £15,000,000 - We lost money ????
Matej Vydra £11,000,000 - Nothing
Jay Rodriguez £10,000,000 - Nothing
Josh Brownhill £9,000,000 - Small profit
Maxwell Cornet £12,850,000 - hopefully 30/40+ million
Nathan Collins £12,000,000 - hopefully 25/30+ million
That is one hell of amount of money down the drain for a small club like us
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
He signed 3 very useful players in 1 window and is keen to strengthen, this window.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:43 amThis is such a lazy agenda.
If Pace doesn’t sign anybody this window will you say the same about him? Given on average he already spends less a transfer window than Garlick did in his tenure?
Mr G closed all his windows to keep the money ready to collect for himself.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
I actually think it all started to go wrong when we became what might become termed "established" because that's the point at which rapidly rising wages start to catch up with income and leave precious little left for transfer splurges. On promotion and several seasons beyond if they survive, clubs are paying basically Championship wages and raking in Premier League money. There comes a time when the former catches up and it starts to really bite in terms of profits and thus incoming transfers (unless you are owned by very rich backers) . Then list of clubs who have experienced what we are experiencing is pretty long and I give you Stoke and Swansea as two very recent examples.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
Quite, you put a hell of a lot of time and effort into your agendas, so you should know.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:43 amThis is such a lazy agenda.
If Pace doesn’t sign anybody this window will you say the same about him? Given on average he already spends less a transfer window than Garlick did in his tenure?
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
We used to get better results with what could be considered worse players, this is not down to lack of investment more like lack of effort.Elizabeth wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:28 pmIt’s not gone wrong yet and while things could have looked better after the Leeds game there is enough time to turn the season around.
I think it is right to ask big questions of Dyche who I am pointing the finger at for results this season. I expect him to change his tactics while keeping his values . Otherwise I will hold him responsible for any relegation that might happen
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
An excellent summary DC, and that's one advantage to being relegated this season, in that we have 10 we can release if we wish, and also save a fortune on wages, there's never an ideal time to suffer relegation, but if we are to drop this just might be the right season to do so, and then do a large overhaul of an ageing squad, which whether we stay up or not is desperately in need of a big shake-up.Dark Cloud wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:23 pmI actually think it all started to go wrong when we became what might become termed "established" because that's the point at which rapidly rising wages start to catch up with income and leave precious little left for transfer splurges. On promotion and several seasons beyond if they survive, clubs are paying basically Championship wages and raking in Premier League money. There comes a time when the former catches up and it starts to really bite in terms of profits and thus incoming transfers (unless you are owned by very rich backers) . Then list of clubs who have experienced what we are experiencing is pretty long and I give you Stoke and Swansea as two very recent examples.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
Nonsense.boatshed bill wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:34 pmWe used to get better results with what could be considered worse players, this is not down to lack of investment more like lack of effort.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
It started to go wrong when the club decided we could keep players who are not PL standard, who are too slow, can't keep possession and can't pass the ball to a team mate. Players who we kept for 2 or3 seasons too long when they were clearly continually declining, players who were recruited as bench warmers only, and not playing players who are good players but not given a fair chance. Sticking rigidly to 4-4-2 when we have a lack of options to change players in our midfield and a lack of quality by them to not get continually played through.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
So Arfield and Boyd would be considered as good, or better than some of the more expensive additions then, Eddie?
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
You could well be right and common sense says you are, but my big fear is that we become the next Stoke or Swansea and don't bounce back, but become a "meh" club again, emeshed in the swamp known as the Championship which can be extremely hard to get out of. Personally I'd much prefer not to go there if we can at all help it.tiger76 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:35 pmAn excellent summary DC, and that's one advantage to being relegated this season, in that we have 10 we can release if we wish, and also save a fortune on wages, there's never an ideal time to suffer relegation, but if we are to drop this just might be the right season to do so, and then do a large overhaul of an ageing squad, which whether we stay up or not is desperately in need of a big shake-up.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
boatshed bill wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:55 pmSo Arfield and Boyd would be considered as good, or better than some of the more expensive additions then, Eddie?
Arfield and Boyd had very specific roles to play - Hendrick, too - which they did very, very effectively.
Our current predicament has little to do with the lack of concern or commitment you are implying our players have.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
It's not just me saying it, Eddie,evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:23 pmArfield and Boyd had very specific roles to play - Hendrick, too - which they did very, very effectively.
Our current predicament has little to do with the lack of concern or commitment you are implying our players have.
even the manager implied similar, as did Shearer.
Our effort levels are down.
Re: When did it start to go wrong
This is very true, and once teams become 'established' it's very difficult to carry on in the same way unless you have unlimited finances.Dark Cloud wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:23 pmI actually think it all started to go wrong when we became what might become termed "established" because that's the point at which rapidly rising wages start to catch up with income and leave precious little left for transfer splurges. On promotion and several seasons beyond if they survive, clubs are paying basically Championship wages and raking in Premier League money. There comes a time when the former catches up and it starts to really bite in terms of profits and thus incoming transfers (unless you are owned by very rich backers) . Then list of clubs who have experienced what we are experiencing is pretty long and I give you Stoke and Swansea as two very recent examples.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
And just to emphasise how mid-table teams in the Prem are likely to get relegated you only have to look at that possibility next season.
If we are among those to drop, being replaced by both Fulham & Bournemouth who have considerable financial clout and may therefore survive then you'll see two teams most likely get relegated from either Southampton, Leeds, Brighton, Brentford, Palace & Newcastle (depending how it's going for them).
The rest are more likely to stop up on the balance of probabilities due to being more wealthier than those above.
But it shows that no matter how much investment the likes of Leeds, Palace, Brighton or Brentford put in place there are even bigger fish than them in the PL and they'll disappear unless they too find a sugar daddy.
If we are among those to drop, being replaced by both Fulham & Bournemouth who have considerable financial clout and may therefore survive then you'll see two teams most likely get relegated from either Southampton, Leeds, Brighton, Brentford, Palace & Newcastle (depending how it's going for them).
The rest are more likely to stop up on the balance of probabilities due to being more wealthier than those above.
But it shows that no matter how much investment the likes of Leeds, Palace, Brighton or Brentford put in place there are even bigger fish than them in the PL and they'll disappear unless they too find a sugar daddy.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
But if Garlick was adamant the right approach was a different one why did he walk away? He's supposed to be a fan and love the club isn't he? Why cut your nose off to spite your face?Shaggy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:07 amIt started to go wrong not long after the European campaign. The recruitment and transfer dealings of players being the primary reason. Sean Dyche clearly has a very specific filter of players he wants and he wants to know them which virtually rules out most the foreign players. We can’t compete buying overpriced championship players keeping them and letting them walk at the end of their contracts for nothing.
There was clearly a rift between Garlick and Dyche with regards to transfers with Garlick wanting to go down a more youthful route which Dyche didn’t agree with culminating in the fallout over the contract extensions.
Garlick obviously never gave Dyche exactly a large budget but it was enough to return better than we have. Our budget blows the likes of Celtic and Rangers out the water yet they can sign better players than us.. that can’t be relayed on Garlick like some are trying to do.
Also the signings we have made just don’t go into the first team which is pretty daft considering we are short in a lot of areas.
80% of the problem is the manager.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
You're fishing right? Pretty sure we brought in more than 44m in players. Vokes Boyd Jones Juke all brought in fees (wasn't Jones 2m?) - plus Trippier left in that period for a fee.ClaretMov wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:36 amIt started to go wrong when the scouts and recruitment team at Burnley failed to bring in hardly any player's (especially when we could play a few games in Europe) that have been turn into better player's and sold for profit, this is the only way a club like ours can survive at the top table along with the sky money because we make next to nothing compared to those with match day revenue.
Our signings in the Dyche era whilst in the premier league have been
2014/15
Michael Kightly undisclosed
Matt Gilks Free
Matthew Taylor Free
Marvin Sordell undisclosed
Steven Reid Free
Lukas Jutkiewicz £1,500,000
Stephen Ward undisclosed
George Boyd £3,000,000
Michael Keane undisclosed
Fredrik Ulvestad undisclosed
Matthew Lowton £1,000,000
2016/17
Johann Berg Gudmundsson undisclosed
Nick Pope undisclosed
Jimmy Dunne undisclosed
Steven Defour £8,000,000
Jeff Hendrick £10,500,000
Joey Barton undisclosed
Ashley Westwood undisclosed
Robbie Brady £13,000,000
2017/18
Charlie Taylor £6,000,000
Jonathan Walters £3,000,000
Jack Cork £10,000,000
Phil Bardsley undisclosed
Adam Legzdins undisclosed
Chris Wood £15,000,000
Nahki Wells £5,000,000
Aaron Lennon undisclosed
2018/19
Joe Hart £3,500,000
Ben Gibson £15,000,000
Matej Vydra £11,000,000
Peter Crouch Part ex deal
Erik Pieters £1,000,000
Jay Rodriguez £10,000,000
2019/20
Bailey Peacock-Farrell £2,500,000
Josh Brownhill £9,000,000
2020/21
Will Norris undisclosed
Dale Stephens £1,000,000
2021/22
Wayne Hennessey Free
Aaron Lennon Free
Maxwell Cornet £12,850,000
Connor Roberts £2,500,000
Nathan Collins £12,000,000
Not many star's to pick out of this lot.
About £184 million spent on player's part funded by player sale's (only including big fee's) for keane, Gray and Heaton, this bringing in around 44 million.
Out of the average £144 million spent and I'm only counting £3+ million players we signed we could/have got back
George Boyd £3,000,000 - Nothing
Steven Defour £8,000,000 - Nothing
Jeff Hendrick £10,500,000 - Nothing
Robbie Brady £13,000,000 - Nothing
Charlie Taylor £6,000,000 - Worth more
Jonathan Walters £3,000,000 - Nothing
Jack Cork £10,000,000 - Nothing
Chris Wood £15,000,000 Worth £10 million on a good day
Nahki Wells £5,000,000 - Sold at same price
Joe Hart £3,500,000 - Nothing
Ben Gibson £15,000,000 - We lost money ????
Matej Vydra £11,000,000 - Nothing
Jay Rodriguez £10,000,000 - Nothing
Josh Brownhill £9,000,000 - Small profit
Maxwell Cornet £12,850,000 - hopefully 30/40+ million
Nathan Collins £12,000,000 - hopefully 25/30+ million
That is one hell of amount of money down the drain for a small club like us
And most of those players have given between 3 and 5 years service that have meant we've stayed in this division. It's not Fantasy football.
144m out is just under 25m per year - in the Premier league. Most sides Iin this league spend double that.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
I think you would be one of very few people who believed that the money Burnley FC had earned and saved under Dyche's management, actually was Garlick's money. Most of us believed it was the club's money to be used for the club's benefit.AfloatinClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:23 pmAs to the scape-goating of Mike Garlick (we love a scapegoat on here) I notice that those now berating him for selling the club are in the main the same ones who called for him to sell/leave 'their' club; presumably what they meant was for MG to get out of 'their' club, but leave your money behind?
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
Unless I've missed them the OP has conveniently forgotten the large returns we made on Gray, Heaton & Keanem bow we would that possibly unless they have an agenda.BabylonClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:20 pmYou're fishing right? Pretty sure we brought in more than 44m in players. Vokes Boyd Jones Juke all brought in fees (wasn't Jones 2m?) - plus Trippier left in that period for a fee.
And most of those players have given between 3 and 5 years service that have meant we've stayed in this division. It's not Fantasy football.
144m out is just under 25m per year - in the Premier league. Most sides Iin this league spend double that.
Now that's not to deny that we've had bad investments, but name me a club that hasn't, and in the PL if you make mistakes in the market, they can often be expensive ones.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
I think he did mention around 40m in. So took some account of that but the bottom line is that we have earned at least 6 or 7 times that amount over the same period. Granted something like probably 5 x that has gone in wages (that's the real killer as your wage bill increases year on year - as several have ppinted out its much easier whilst your players are still largely on Championship+ rather than Premier - wages) but it still puts the "huge" amount I perspectivetiger76 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:51 pmUnless I've missed them the OP has conveniently forgotten the large returns we made on Gray, Heaton & Keanem bow we would that possibly unless they have an agenda.
Now that's not to deny that we've had bad investments, but name me a club that hasn't, and in the PL if you make mistakes in the market, they can often be expensive ones.
Re: When did it start to go wrong
Read properly what I put.........I said "part funded by player sale's (only including big fee's) for keane, Gray and Heaton"BabylonClaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:20 pmYou're fishing right? Pretty sure we brought in more than 44m in players. Vokes Boyd Jones Juke all brought in fees (wasn't Jones 2m?) - plus Trippier left in that period for a fee.
And most of those players have given between 3 and 5 years service that have meant we've stayed in this division. It's not Fantasy football.
144m out is just under 25m per year - in the Premier league. Most sides Iin this league spend double that.
I'm not counting small fees like the odd 3 million here and the odd 1 million there I CBA looking for them because most of them get equualed out by all the undisclosed fee's we've spent, the point I was making we've wasted a lot of money on player's with no or little resale value and a small club like us can't survive with the big boy's at the top table running like that, are recruitment team have made bad mistakes not finding players to sell on, we made around 3 million on Trippier and nothing on ings that's a crime there, I didn't mention these because none of them are Dyche era signings
Re: When did it start to go wrong
Forgot to add to the above but can't edit now, to answer your question, Vokes Boyd Jones Juke all brought in fees (wasn't Jones 2m?)
Vokes bought for undisclosed fee thought to be £350,000 a bloody bargin and sold for undisclosed fee thought to be around 8m plus Crouch, we pulled there pants down at that fee
Boyd like I've already said, bought for 3 million got nothing for him, he walked for free
Juke bought for 1.5million sold for 1 million
Jones was free but sold for undisclosed fee but at 32 I doubt it was 2 million
Vokes bought for undisclosed fee thought to be £350,000 a bloody bargin and sold for undisclosed fee thought to be around 8m plus Crouch, we pulled there pants down at that fee
Boyd like I've already said, bought for 3 million got nothing for him, he walked for free
Juke bought for 1.5million sold for 1 million
Jones was free but sold for undisclosed fee but at 32 I doubt it was 2 million
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
Having financial clout & actually spending it & more importantly getting value from that money spent doesn’t always work out the way you would like it to, you can have the wrong manager spending it on the wrong sort of players & effectively wasting money, regarding Fulham having “financial clout” it never seem to help them last time around, by now we should be an established midtable premier league side but because the club is laden with debt up to the eyeballs the transfer market going forwards will be restrictive & the lack of success severely limited due to this even on a moderate level in keeping with a club this size & reasonable projected outlook.Spijed wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:55 pmAnd just to emphasise how mid-table teams in the Prem are likely to get relegated you only have to look at that possibility next season.
If we are among those to drop, being replaced by both Fulham & Bournemouth who have considerable financial clout and may therefore survive then you'll see two teams most likely get relegated from either Southampton, Leeds, Brighton, Brentford, Palace & Newcastle (depending how it's going for them).
The rest are more likely to stop up on the balance of probabilities due to being more wealthier than those above.
But it shows that no matter how much investment the likes of Leeds, Palace, Brighton or Brentford put in place there are even bigger fish than them in the PL and they'll disappear unless they too find a sugar daddy.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
As you say, it doesn't always work out, hence why any club outside of the big six, plus potentially Everton will always be looking over their shoulders.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:48 amHaving financial clout & actually spending it & more importantly getting value from that money spent doesn’t always work out the way you would like it to, you can have the wrong manager spending it on the wrong sort of players & effectively wasting money, regarding Fulham having “financial clout” it never seem to help them last time around, by now we should be an established midtable premier league side but because the club is laden with debt up to the eyeballs the transfer market going forwards will be restrictive & the lack of success severely limited due to this even on a moderate level in keeping with a club this size & reasonable projected outlook.
If Newcastle get established with their Saudi ownership then it makes it even harder for the rest.
All it takes is for a couple of promoted clubs to stay up for a season longer than expected and a club that is considered too good to go down will have to replace them, hence why no club can ever be established unless you really have huge financial power.
That's why one or two from the likes of Palace, Brighton, Leeds, Southampton etc. will drop in the next couple of seasons unless the promoted clubs go straight back down.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
Possibly but not necessarily just because promoted clubs get promoted doesn’t mean they’ll spend enough or spend it on the right signings that will be PL ready, thinking about it so what if the likes of palace or Leeds or Brighton drop eventually it’s a good thing do we want divisions season after season with the same old clubs staying in them i don’t. I’ve noticed with you when the chips are down here you always try to distract away from that by discussing another possible clubs plight whether that’s some sort of a comfort blanket for you or you are trying to normalise what’s happening here with our decline I’m not sure, it’s very strange that sometimes you refuse to accept things & go off on a tangent discussing other things which aren’t relevant to what’s happening here regarding our mismanagement.Spijed wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:29 amAs you say, it doesn't always work out, hence why any club outside of the big six, plus potentially Everton will always be looking over their shoulders.
If Newcastle get established with their Saudi ownership then it makes it even harder for the rest.
All it takes is for a couple of promoted clubs to stay up for a season longer than expected and a club that is considered too good to go down will have to replace them, hence why no club can ever be established unless you really have huge financial power.
That's why one or two from the likes of Palace, Brighton, Leeds, Southampton etc. will drop in the next couple of seasons unless the promoted clubs go straight back down.
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
It all started to go wrong as soon as Garlick and the Polish guy saw the pound signs and cut the money supply of for incoming transfers.
Last summers transfer window under Pace was also poor value when you look back. We have seen little of Collins, nothing of Roberts and now we have lost Cornet to the African nations, so all in all it was a poor window
Last summers transfer window under Pace was also poor value when you look back. We have seen little of Collins, nothing of Roberts and now we have lost Cornet to the African nations, so all in all it was a poor window
Re: When did it start to go wrong
What Polish guy?Top Claret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:22 pmIt all started to go wrong as soon as Garlick and the Polish guy saw the pound signs and cut the money supply of for incoming transfers.
Last summers transfer window under Pace was also poor value when you look back. We have seen little of Collins, nothing of Roberts and now we have lost Cornet to the African nations, so all in all it was a poor window
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Re: When did it start to go wrong
18th January 1961 Jimmy Bloody Hill !!.
Re: When did it start to go wrong
John B is British.