Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.

[Anthonini]

If we finish the transfer window with a centre midfield group of Berge, Lokonga (loan?) Ramsey, Cullen, JBG, Brownhill and Cork, I will be very pleased.

Same here. Would be an awesome midfield. I'm very pleased with the signing of Sander Berge, he's a real leader and a complete midfielder. Tall, strong, technically very good for his posture, great vision of the game and a beautiful passing game. Seems like a great fit for Kompany.

I'm still a bit concerned about the left and right back position where we lack speed vision and creativity to move forward on the pitch. Hopefully we can get players like Gomez or Maehle.

Gnonto would be great too.

[Petersa]

Single pivot is 1 defensive CM. Double pivot is two defensive CM's.

The 'pivot' is the 'in possession' role of players in those positions, always remaining central but moving to provide passing diamond and triangle options.

I.e. single pivot: if the GK has the ball at his feet, the CB's will create width to his left and right and the CDM will come deep to form a passing diamond between the 4 players. The Pivot always remains roughly in the center of the shape of the team but when the ball moves over to the right side, will follow to create a triangle or diamond again between RB, RM and RCB.
Double pivot has two people playing this role, with both players moving to create multiple passing shapes.

I guess the word pivot implies a rotation point. And that's essentially the role.

In the days of Granville Shackleton, reporter on Burnley for the LET in the 60s and 70s, he often used to refer to centre halves as pivots. Whether Colin Waldron, Dave Merrington, Jim Thomson etc would have played in the manner desribed I'm not quite sure

[gandhisflipflop]

Lokonga
Ramsay
Left back
Gnonto


Could you imagine. I think I need a lay down.

[Firthy]

Interesting article re Villa/Ramsey and potential buy back clause

https://underagaslitlamp.com/2023/08/10 ... -decision/

What's not clear is when they can buy him back. If he does really well this season can Villa buy him back at their request or is it only if we agree to sell him, then they get first option at a fixed price?

[FeedTheArf]

Me too , still don’t understand what a low block defence is

https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/low-blo ... -mourinho/

In my day it was ‘park the bus’!

[Conroysleftfoot]

Two of the things VK repeats is having competition for every position, and knowing that not every signing will be a success.

The numbers we have in the squad means the competition is very real, but also unless they all flop, not likely, we are going to be left with a nucleus of a very good squad.
I also believe that very few of our players will play 90 mins every week, even if they avoid injury and suspension. Playing on the front foot, and going hard, means players will naturally need a rest occasionally.

Exciting times to be sure, it's like reading a book and dying to know what the next chapter will bring.

Great last line.

[Firthy]

Lokonga
Ramsay
Left back
Gnonto

Could you imagine. I think I need a lay down.

I'm still not convinced that Lokonga is coming. Almost definitely Ramsay and a LB and hopefully Gnonto or another striker. That should be our lot but you can't be certain on anything these days with incomings.

[Hipper]

What's not clear is when they can buy him back. If he does really well this season can Villa buy him back at their request or is it only if we agree to sell him, then they get first option at a fixed price?

I would have thought firstly it's up to the player. Then they could buy him back for the fee agreed but is that a minimum fee? What happens if another club offers more, must we accept Villa's deal? Then there are sell on clauses - if we get an offer of £xxx would that trigger a transfer, as in Chris Wood's case apparently?

Transfers agreements these days seem very complicated!

[claret2018]

Are buy-back clauses often triggered? I’m struggling to think of a single example.

[Pickles]

Are buy-back clauses often triggered? I’m struggling to think of a single example.

One which comes to mind fairly recently was the left back Angeliño going back to Man City from Leipzig. Haven't checked but think that was a buy back.

[Tricky Trevor]

And they used to say football was a simple game!

Football is a simple game pass the ball to a man in the same colour jersey. Repeat.

[Dougall]

Odobert travelling!

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2 ... nley-deal/

Sacha Boey?!

[Pearcey]

Are buy-back clauses often triggered? I’m struggling to think of a single example.

Akinbiyi. We sold him for £1.7m to Sheffield Utd and bought him back for £600k. We held all the power in that deal after instructing Ade to be rubbish there.

[Commy]

I read somewhere that Gnonto has been told he needs to be playing top level football to stay in the national team.

[spt_claret]

I'm glad I'm not the only one! I've watched football all my life, but I find myself coming across terms like double-pivot and counter press and think I know absolutely nothing about the game! But really, a lot of it is just new names for old ideas.

Fully agree with this. Same with a lot of the so-called revolutionary/'new' tactics used by the likes of Klopp, Guardiola or whoever else. Teams having a different shape in and out of possession has been a thing for decades, it's just more popular in England now and in general because of improvements in sport science fitness, etc. City's formation and Klopp's favoured setup are just modern variants of the old 235/325 WM and MM/metodo formations.

I think some of it comes from a slight need by some fans to make football 'smarter'. Much as I do love data analysis, stats and all things academic/nerdy, the growing use of football data has IMO led to an increase in a certain type of fan who over-intellectualise everything and need to find more highbrow reasons for why they like football so get bogged down in a very pop-sci form of analysis- using lots of jargon or as you say, coming up with new jargon for old ideas to try and elevate football to the highbrow status they're after. It often comes with a weird purism as though only one playing style/approach is 'proper football' too, very much like the anti-stats oldschool fans they rail against. It's far from the only form of entertainment that this is happening in but just something I always find funny- very very little is truly new when the Football League is 135 years old, ideas come in and out of fashion, right now a return to ultra attacking formations and elements of Total Football is in, but then something will come along to counter & replace it which is probably just another old idea back in fashion with a new name.

Are buy-back clauses often triggered? I’m struggling to think of a single example.

I think Bojan's was when he was at Barca.

Odobert travelling!

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2 ... nley-deal/

Saying this aware I'm about to get the 'THATS NOT TRANSFERS' brigade biting my head off but- €12m for an 18 year old is a hell of a lot of money that generally speaking, only a few financial powerhouses like City, Real, PSG, or now Newcastle can afford. I understand it probably is inclusive of bonus clauses and will probably be staggered over the 5 years of his contract but given the club's apparently taken out a loan based on the PL revenue, it feels like we'll have spent all of this year's revenue up front and possibly even worked on subsequent seasons' cashflow whether PL rights or parachute money. Can't help but feel like it's a financial risk, but then I'm very play it safe with money so could just be me.

[Jambounchained]

Gnonto is absolutely desperate to get out of Leeds.

[Carwin261]

Can image they’ll be a few fullbacks in the Prem having their backsides kicked when they play us with the wingers we have or will have.

[Stproc]

Me too , still don’t understand what a low block defence is

It’s just sky BS, they invent at least one new phrase every season and then repeat it for ever. Then all the copycats repeat it, and on it goes.

[Silkyskills1]

And they used to say football was a simple game!

False 9, a 10, an 8, a 6, and now a double pivot building presumably on a single pivot. Then there was the one of a player playing between an 8 and a 10 which someone quietly explained might be a number 9. Totally dispels the late, great Bill Shankly's notion of football being a simple game. Thankfully, I still just enjoy going to a match, whether it's a professional encounter or watching Haslingden St. Mary's occasionally. Not too sure if they play a double pivot but I'll ask next time I'm down there.

[Swizzlestick]

Spurs have accepted a €100m bid for Kane from Bayern - up to him now.

[Murger]

He better decide quick. He’s in my dream team.

[claretonthecoast1882]

False 9, a 10, an 8, a 6, and now a double pivot building presumably on a single pivot. Then there was the one of a player playing between an 8 and a 10 which someone quietly explained might be a number 9. Totally dispels the late, great Bill Shankly's notion of football being a simple game. Thankfully, I still just enjoy going to a match, whether it's a professional encounter or watching Haslingden St. Mary's occasionally. Not too sure if they play a double pivot but I'll ask next time I'm down there.

It's a nonsense but modern and trendy.

I full expect either Muric or Trafford to play as a 1 and Roberts as a 2

[bumba]

Saying this aware I'm about to get the 'THATS NOT TRANSFERS' brigade biting my head off but- €12m for an 18 year old is a hell of a lot of money that generally speaking, only a few financial powerhouses like City, Real, PSG, or now Newcastle can afford. I understand it probably is inclusive of bonus clauses and will probably be staggered over the 5 years of his contract but given the club's apparently taken out a loan based on the PL revenue, it feels like we'll have spent all of this year's revenue up front and possibly even worked on subsequent seasons' cashflow whether PL rights or parachute money. Can't help but feel like it's a financial risk, but then I'm very play it safe with money so could just be me.
[/quote]

It isn't a financial risk because we're signing young players with a lot of potential if we get relegated we'd sell a couple for at least there value, look at Southampton there selling Lavia for close to £50 million which will mean they can keep others to help getting back up.
It's a sensible approach, the only way it fails is if we are utterly awful all season and every player fails to produce meaning nobody wants any of them but I cannot see that happening

[CFS]

I read somewhere that Gnonto has been told he needs to be playing top level football to stay in the national team.

Mancini picks players based on performances not who they play for.

[warksclaret]

He better decide quick. He’s in my dream team.

Great player but does not have the ambition to leave Spurs otherwise would have gone several seasons ago. A genuine "home-bird"

[Les Lawrence]

Commentator definitely said Mancini wanted Willy to play top level to keep in international side

[Eyesofblue2]

False 9, a 10, an 8, a 6, and now a double pivot building presumably on a single pivot. Then there was the one of a player playing between an 8 and a 10 which someone quietly explained might be a number 9. Totally dispels the late, great Bill Shankly's notion of football being a simple game. Thankfully, I still just enjoy going to a match, whether it's a professional encounter or watching Haslingden St. Mary's occasionally. Not too sure if they play a double pivot but I'll ask next time I'm down there.

We won the league in 59/60 playing 4-2-4, but no one knew.

[Chester Perry]

It isn't a financial risk because we're signing young players with a lot of potential if we get relegated we'd sell a couple for at least there value, look at Southampton there selling Lavia for close to £50 million which will mean they can keep others to help getting back up.
It's a sensible approach, the only way it fails is if we are utterly awful all season and every player fails to produce meaning nobody wants any of them but I cannot see that happening

There is always risk involved, whether you spend everything, half or nothing as we saw under Garlick. The risks are different and are taken for differing reasons and circumstances.

Your no risk view is based on the idea of being able to sell on in case of relegation and then essentially do a rinse and repeat of last season - but repeating is the extremely hard bit and you have to ask who would be here to do that?

Equally there is the chance that the season goes well but we do not have the funds to build on the momentum in the following season - the key will be how much we can grow revenues and the cash balance, the club appear to be working hard on the former - one way of doing the latter is to bring on board more co-owners and repay the debt,

I offer no opinion on either, it is the choice of the incumbents and we know that they are resourceful

Risks essentially are taken in line with personalities of the board - the current board is currently aggressive/confident in its abilities and the capabilities of the club under their watch so that informs their approach. The previous board started out aggressive under Kilby but had its fingers badly burned so became more cautious and sought to build a funding base to cover all costs taken on if the unexpected happened (which they did very successfully). It will be interesting to see how the current board develops in its approach over time.

[Tricky Trevor]

It’s just sky BS, they invent at least one new phrase every season and then repeat it for ever. Then all the copycats repeat it, and on it goes.

It comes from coaching courses. Pundits pick up the meaningless expressions, spout them on the box and the guy down the pub(wanting to appear smart) repeats it not having a clue what he’s talking about. I only watch the matches now. If pundits can’t agree with each other they are no brighter than us.
Example.
Ben Mee gets back on goal line.
A) makes a stop. He’s a genius.
B) goal. He’s an idiot for breaking the back 4 line

[Nori1958]

Injury problems at villa.... hopefully won't impact on Ramsey deal

[NewClaret]

Injury problems at villa.... hopefully won't impact on Ramsey deal

Who is injured?

[RVclaret]

Who is injured?

Buendia ACL…

Looks like they are keen on signing a replacement, Romano said they are in for Zaniolo from Roma.

[NewClaret]

I’ve said it before players come and look around - some have medicals , some don’t , some sign, some don’t .. so we’ll see.Some of the thread is nonsense some is correct , but what I will say is that almost none of the gossip on this thread about the timing of medicals is correct. On specific players and whether they’ve actually signed I have no idea , and neither should I have.

This very much ties in with the info I was given about the timing of medicals this week. It doesn’t tally with the info being provided by established journalists.

[NewClaret]

Buendia ACL…

Looks like they are keen on signing a replacement, Romano said they are in for Zaniolo from Roma.

Ouch, that’s a blow for them.

[CFS]

Commentator definitely said Mancini wanted Willy to play top level to keep in international side

He's picked players playing in seria b never mind the championship.

[mybloodisclaret]

Buendia ACL…

Looks like they are keen on signing a replacement, Romano said they are in for Zaniolo from Roma.

Massive blow for Villa that. And as double ACL patient my thoughts are with the player. Absolutely terrible injury. Wish him well.

[fatboy47]

Massive blow for Villa that. And as double ACL patient my thoughts are with the player. Absolutely terrible injury. Wish him well.

I'd be as concerned as would be the average Villa fan about injuries to key Burnley players.

[gandhisflipflop]

Commentator definitely said Mancini wanted Willy to play top level to keep in international side

I have a theory. Kompany will know Mancini, maybe he has got on the blower to him to have Mancini tell gnonto that he needs to play top level football?

[ŽižkovClaret]

Are buy-back clauses often triggered? I’m struggling to think of a single example.

There's a few where clubs wished they had one, Pogba going back to Man Utd would have been one!

Also, imagine if Chelsea had had one for Salah or De Bruyne, although i doubt either player would have returned.

[jlup1980]

Fully agree with this. Same with a lot of the so-called revolutionary/'new' tactics used by the likes of Klopp, Guardiola or whoever else. Teams having a different shape in and out of possession has been a thing for decades, it's just more popular in England now and in general because of improvements in sport science fitness, etc. City's formation and Klopp's favoured setup are just modern variants of the old 235/325 WM and MM/metodo formations.

Inverting the Pyramid by Jonathan Wilson is a terrific read if you're a football geek like me! What we did last season, when in possession, was effectively play the 235 you mention.

Muric
THB Beyer
Roberts Cullen Maatsen
Benson Brownhill Barnes JBG Zaroury

It's maybe not that obvious from the stands as the front 5 clearly weren't "flat" but the full backs pushed on to support Cullen and the rest were given the freedom to play as high up the pitch as they wanted! There's certainly nothing new about it. This has been done since the days of Burnley's own Jimmy Hogan!

[Rowls]

Inverting the Pyramid by Jonathan Wilson is a terrific read if you're a football geek like me! What we did last season, when in possession, was effectively play the 235 you mention.

Muric
THB Beyer
Roberts Cullen Maatsen
Benson Brownhill Barnes JBG Zaroury

It's maybe not that obvious from the stands as the front 5 clearly weren't "flat" but the full backs pushed on to support Cullen and the rest were given the freedom to play as high up the pitch as they wanted! There's certainly nothing new about it. This has been done since the days of Burnley's own Jimmy Hogan!

It was certainly very impressive when it worked and that was for the vast majority of the time.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

https://twitter.com/willlankymedia/stat ... 79136?s=46

I like this from Will Lancaster

[KlyBfc]

Gnonto would be a no from me.
There’s a reason Leeds got him so cheap despite him appearing for the Italian national team, there’s also a reason despite there struggles last year why he spent plenty of time starting as a sub for more than one of their managers. His output of goals and assists from March is very poor. You then throw in him not wanting to play last night. Attitude must be questionable. He’s very raw and direct but not sure he’s what we need around our squad.

[KlyBfc]

https://twitter.com/willlankymedia/stat ... 79136?s=46

I like this from Will Lancaster

Me too.

[CoolClaret]

***SPT_Claret’s content***

I agree with the shapes/systems and said to my friends earlier in the season when Pep adopted that 3-2-4-1 / 2-3-4-1 in possession that we’ve come full circle from the formations of yesteryear, albeit now just done with more analysis / data.

Give it another few years and there will be a coach rocking a 4-4-2 winning the UCL/WC and that will be the thing back in fashion - heck look at how the Mou made everyone play a 4-3-3 or the German team in 2014 play 4-2-3-1 or Conte bringing wing backs and 3 at the back back to the PL (no one had played three at the back for a good 15+ seasons).

In stark contrast to these new fluid styles is Emery and Villa, ultra ultra organised and rigid with positioning but it works for him and has had success with it - just shows there’s more than one way to skin a cat no matter what’s currently ‘in fashion’.

It happens in the NFL as well things are very circular, one offense will come into fruition then everyone tries it efc till one team has success doing it a different way then everyone tries to copy to keep up / adapt.

For example the NFL is pass heavy now and teams are loading up on receivers/defensive backs… one team will come through and have a tone of success with a heavy old school run game and then that will be the rage again.

With regards to transfers and fees I too err on the side of caution re leveraging loans/all the PL money to try and make big returns on player sales… all I’ll say is that as long as we have Kompany or similar that can develop young players we will be ok - but it is an extremely risky strategy

[fatboy47]

Gnonto would be a no from me.
There’s a reason Leeds got him so cheap despite him appearing for the Italian national team, there’s also a reason despite there struggles last year why he spent plenty of time starting as a sub for more than one of their managers. His output of goals and assists from March is very poor. You then throw in him not wanting to play last night. Attitude must be questionable. He’s very raw and direct but not sure he’s what we need around our squad.

Is that you Anass?

[blake's wand]

Also agree re: Gnonto - looked on fire at times, but not sure a position we're short of. Also surprising that nobody else has come in for him

[martin_p]

Also agree re: Gnonto - looked on fire at times, but not sure a position we're short of. Also surprising that nobody else has come in for him

I thought Everton had been linked.

[thehistorylecturer63]

This very much ties in with the info I was given about the timing of medicals this week. It doesn’t tally with the info being provided by established journalists.

Indeed I’m happy to state that they haven’t got a single one of them right timing wise - all summer !

[Penwortham_Claret]

VK press conference, confirmed Ramsay is close. Questioned on Tella & Maatsen he said that they aren’t our players ‘at the moment’