A team lacking in identity

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:09 am

I thought we lacked identity and experience last night. Too many players jettisoned too quickly who were the bedrocks of success last season and have earned the chance in this one, at least initially, to show what they can do.

Kompany is clearly ruthless but I hope he hasn't upset the spirit and togetherness of the camp,

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:11 am

Papabendi wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:09 am
I thought we lacked identity and experience last night. Too many players jettisoned too quickly who were the bedrocks of success last season and have earned the chance in this one, at least initially, to show what they can do.

Kompany is clearly ruthless but I hope he hasn't upset the spirit and togetherness of the camp,

My view is that he saw it as a free hit, and used it to give some of the new players a run out, if he was serious about getting a result, muric, brownhill, cork, JBG and zaroury would have started.

GetIntoEm · Post by **GetIntoEm** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:22 am

Please explain "lacking identity" I don't know what you mean

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:24 am

My view is that we played a Treble winning side with a mutant that scored 40 goals last season up top and should be taken into account before one posts a load of reactionary waffle on the t’internet

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:26 am

We heard all this type of stuff at the start of last season

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:28 am

It's going to take a bit of time to gel. So many positives from last night.

I remember going to City games over the last few years knowing we would roll over and take a hiding, but at least night night we had a real go at them and we really did cause them quite a few problems with our press and some of our link-up play. I think that bodes really well for the coming season as we can only get stronger and grow as a team.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:30 am

burnleymik wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:28 am
It's going to take a bit of time to gel. So many positives from last night.

This.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:31 am

I felt like we had great identity considering we had so many new players. We just respected them a bit too much and were naive sometimes in defence.

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:39 am

The identity of the team is clear, possess, attack and don't give up. I can't remember enjoying a 3-0 defeat so much in the past. Under the previous manager we would have played turgid defensive football, last night was a breath of fresh air, so many positives against probably the best team in Europe at the moment.
It is sad that some posters on this board want VK to fail just to validate their perverse view that sacking Dyche was the worst footballing decision ever made.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:40 am

claretandy wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:11 am
My view is that he saw it as a free hit, and used it to give some of the new players a run out, if he was serious about getting a result, muric, brownhill, cork, JBG and zaroury would have started.

I don't see 4 of them as being regular starters. (Maybe none of them).

The Hung Juror · Post by **The Hung Juror** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:40 am

Seem to remember that I felt the same as I do now, after the first game against Huddersfield last season, despite the obvious negative score line.

Im full of excitement and optimism about the season ahead, having gone into the game wondering with all the new faces, what we were going to be served up.

And the one thing they didn’t lack last night was identity.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:41 am

I actually thought that after the first 15 minutes the cohesion in the side was remarkable considering it was a completely new formation and 5 players were debuting. I was concerned there would be less cohesion than there was.

In terms of winning the game last night, no question we'd have stood a better chance had Zaroury, Benson and perhaps also Brownhill started. But Benson was coming back from injury and clearly Kompany wanted to integrate Amdouni and Berge - and it is fair to say both did well. Equally, Kompany clearly wanted to play a different system specifically to combat City, which largely worked fine in general play.

I do have a slight worry we are carrying too many players and that it might take a while for Kompany to work out how to fit the jigsaw together - I'm not sure there is a need for 5 wingers on the bench, or that it is particularly helpful. But doubtless as we get closer to the end of the window things will take shape.

Biggest concern last night was organisation and occasionally a bit of leadership. Cork, Brownhill, Barnes and Rodriguez were our 4 big organisers at set plays last season - we weren't great even then but we missed them last night and Trafford was less willing to leave his line for high balls than Muric latterly last season. That needs sorting ASAP. Equally whilst it might have been the man to man thing, at times our defensive line in open play looked a mite disorganised. A settled centre back partnership is a priority.

kenyon6923 · Post by **kenyon6923** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:47 am

we can go round and round in circles all day/week long but reality is we need to AVOID being in the bottom 3 of this mini league :

US
Sheff Utd
Luton
Bournemouth
Nottingham Forest
Everton
Crystal Palace
Poss Wolves
Poss Fulham - depending on manager, mitro and willian situation.

Swizzlestick · Post by **Swizzlestick** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:54 am

Was going to make the same point as old spice, I thought
we looked remarkably settled considering the changes. It isn’t the line up I’d have gone for, but I’m glad we’ve got that game out of the way frankly and I have a feeling VK used it more as an opportunity to see the new players.

mikeS · Post by **mikeS** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:58 am

How many players made their debut for us Inc subs against the best side in Europe?

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:00 am

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:40 am
I don't see 4 of them as being regular starters. (Maybe none of them).

Neither do I, I was talking about getting a result against city.

Carwin261 · Post by **Carwin261** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:01 am

No identity ? our identity is we’re a Highly skilled ball playing young team,with loads of flair.

Anybody watching last night must have been impressed with the leaner ,and quicker Lyle Foster ,excellent debuts from O’Shea,Koleosho,Amdouni ,and Larsen,thought Berge ,and Trafford did ok,if we can get another left back in similar to Maatsen we’ll be flying.

TheOriginalLongsider · Post by **TheOriginalLongsider** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:19 am

First match of the season against the European Champions. Forget any analysis as it would be difficult for every other club in the league. We’ve got that one out of the way, let’s move on

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:26 am

Don’t know about identity, they are not bedded in yet but I thought with so many new guys we looked short of leaders.something we haven’t struggled with under SD or last season. With Ash, JRod, Jack Cork, Josh Brownhill missing there didn't appear anybody out there taking charge and bossing team mates about. Cullen might be a good player but is he a leader? I don’t know and only time will tell.

daveisaclaret · Post by **daveisaclaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:27 am

Think OP should ask for a seat facing the pitch next time.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:12 am

The only concern is the organisation and lacking a bit of leadership when it comes to defending set plays. Man City's 3rd goal was a bit reminiscent of those we conceded at Sheff United last season. Are we going to mark man to man or zonal in those situations. As soon as the ball is allowed to bounce in the box it can be difficult to clear the ball.

wbfc · Post by **wbfc** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:22 am

There is a lot of enthusiasm at the moment...I think there will be 3 teams worse but I think talks of too 10 finish is wide of the mark

Listen to guys like Souness and Harry Rednapp and I think they summed up things better

The football is better and the players are young some will surprise and some will dissapoint

AL Dalhil and Benson I think we will make very good profits ..

For me a proper striker is needed as a priority

I thought we did okay in the first half ...second half we got a few corners but city got behind us a few times and could have scored more

The goalkeeper did okay ...I saw pickford at bradford city when he was a similar age ...confidence beyond both age and ability....but I would persevere with him ..

When all said I remember the quote opinions are like a...e holes every has one and everyone including the players need to keep faith with the manager

Keep the faith UTC

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:25 am

The first two goals were down to good City attacking play, notwithstanding I was extremely surprised that Vitihno got the LB nod when much of last year he really didn't convince me at all tbh and it didn't surprise me that was there that they exploited. The third goal wasn't so much great play as just awful defending at any level and any decent team could play that ball into our box, slotted precisely into the "corridor of uncertainty" and if you don't defend it properly you'll get punished! We didn't and we were.
Btw, did anyone else wonder whether our initial clearance struck Haaland who had been deliberately standing offside when the free kick was taken and should (could) it have drawn a flag? Unsure?

Commy · Post by **Commy** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:26 am

I also think that he just used it to give some players a taste of the Premier. Shows them how hard they have to work, which the others learnt last year.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:34 am

We have to evolve and several players were always going to change our 3 loanees Tella, Maatsen and THB are a big miss .Personally I think we should push out the finances to resign Tella and Maatsen.
AL Dakiel was my mom yesterday and Ekdal is also a good cb O Shea had a good solid match yesterday
Brownhill and Corks places are the most underthreat from our new signings

Pickles · Post by **Pickles** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:39 am

randomclaret2 wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:26 am
We heard all this type of stuff at the start of last season

Absolutely. Remember people writing Benson off? Funny.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:39 am

Let’s see where we are after 3 Gomes. Due the ridiculous postponement of the Luton game and starting with 3 home games against top teams we could easily find ourselves rock bottom with a game in hand but only 16 home games left. Hopefully that won’t be the case but what this does is puts huge extra pressure on the next two games
I was surprised at the team selection last night. We lacked cohesion and the togetherness that brought us such success last season The early Goal and the penalty decision were the defining moments. We missed the distribution of Muric and the pace and skill of Tella. Foster gave it his all but his touch and control let him down. Berge was not ready to play and will surly get way better. Beyer also looked below par and not match fit. Add to this the stupid and unnecessary red card and overall it was a disappointing start to what I hope will be an exciting season

sjb · Post by **sjb** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:42 am

Papabendi wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:09 am
I thought we lacked identity and experience last night. Too many players jettisoned too quickly who were the bedrocks of success last season and have earned the chance in this one, at least initially, to show what they can do.

Kompany is clearly ruthless but I hope he hasn't upset the spirit and togetherness of the camp,

Nice to see you aren't overreacting..

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:44 am

Can't believe Tella, Maatsen & THB didn't start. Kompany out.

Culmclaret · Post by **Culmclaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:45 am

Not quite sure what people expect. Half a new team against the best team in the world. On this display we are going to cause lots of teams lots of problems and we’ll be fine. The Kompany project is ahead of schedule so we are bound to see periods where we are consolidating. No reason we can’t get something against Villa and Spurs.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 12:10 pm

claretandy wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:00 am
Neither do I, I was talking about getting a result against city.

I don't think that was Kompany's priority.
The chances of us getting anything were very slim no matter who played, and with no game next week, he regarded it as a free hit in a highly competitive game against the best in the world.
He's got a couple of weeks now to bring in more players and work on the training ground.
I don't think we particularly disagree though.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 12:32 pm

Papabendi wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:09 am
I thought we lacked identity and experience last night. Too many players jettisoned too quickly who were the bedrocks of success last season and have earned the chance in this one, at least initially, to show what they can do.

Kompany is clearly ruthless but I hope he hasn't upset the spirit and togetherness of the camp,

I do wonder if you ever complained about Dyche being too loyal to players.

forzagranata · Post by **forzagranata** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 1:12 pm

Would have been interesting to see last season's Burnley take on a City team that, let's be honest, were miles off their best.

AfloatinClaret · Post by **AfloatinClaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:30 pm

Culmclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:45 am
...Half a new team against the best team in the world...

I think you need to re-check the teamsheets... Well over half of those players were playing for City last year too.

AfloatinClaret · Post by **AfloatinClaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:33 pm

GetIntoEm wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:22 am
Please explain "lacking identity" I don't know what you mean

It's a phrase used by people in the - usually vain - hope of not sounding clueless.

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:42 pm

AfloatinClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:33 pm
It's a phrase used by people in the - usually vain - hope of not sounding clueless.

I agree, the phrase "bedrock of our system" shows a lack of precision. The major contributor to our season, Tella. Maatsen, THB and Ash are no longer with the team and very unlikely to return, Two others, Benson and Zaoury may not be available for the next couple of games. Blooding the new signings in " a free hit" game seems to be a shrews move, but then again, I don't play FIFA or FM, so I really have no place commenting on a message board regarding football matters.
However, I still have a copy of sensible soccer on my Atari ST, but I am not very good at it.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:52 pm

The OP said 'we lacked identity and experience'.

I don't think there can be any argument about experience.

I agree it was difficult to see what formation or plan we had in what was quite a complicated game way beyond me to understand. VK said in one of his numerous interviews that we were at the point last year of changing formation/style about five or six times in a match. That was last season and this took hundreds of meetings and field work to accomplish.

Now we have loads of new players - yesterday's line-up had five debutants - replacing as the OP says, some experienced heads - Brownhill, JayRod, Maatsen, Tella, Barnes, THB, Muric....... My guess is that is what he is referring to. And he's right.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:56 pm

Hipper wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:52 pm
The OP said 'we lacked identity and experience'.

I don't think there can be any argument about experience.

I agree it was difficult to see what formation or plan we had in what was quite a complicated game way beyond me to understand. VK said in one of his numerous interviews that we were at the point last year of changing formation/style about five or six times in a match. That was last season and this took hundreds of meetings and field work to accomplish.

Now we have loads of new players - yesterday's line-up had five debutants - replacing as the OP says, some experienced heads - Brownhill, JayRod, Maatsen, Tella, Barnes, THB, Muric....... My guess is that is what he is referring to. And he's right.

I thought it was quite obvious what the formation and plan was. And it worked. City were struggling first half and Pep changed tactics second half.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:00 pm

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:56 pm
I thought it was quite obvious what the formation and plan was. And it worked. City were struggling first half and Pep changed tactics second half.

I'm hoping though that the 523 system we used was a creation just for the City game. Going man for man like that did work in disrupting them but I'd like to think we will impose our own shape from now on.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:22 pm

I do kind of agree, I don't know what the formation was last night, was abit of a jumble together. Amdouni at striker, Foster left hand side, Vitinho left back? felt like AL Dakhil spent half the game at left back, not sure what Vitinho was supposed to be doing. We didnt see much of the left back flying forward and right back tucking into CM (or visa versa) which was imperative to last seasons success.

However it was clearly a free hit and we competed really well, good lesson and good minutes in the legs. Way more positives than negatives, the only real negatives were off the pitch from a few braindead fans.

Hopefully soon we'll be back to our 4231 formation, with our best players in their best positions (Zaroury wide left, Amdouni in 10, Foster striker, Vitinho not at left back etc) and back to 1 inverted full back whilst the other flies forward. Oh and we don't even have a left back atm which doesn't help. We'll be more than fine this season.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:24 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:22 pm
I do kind of agree, I don't know what the formation was last night

Say no more

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:29 pm

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:24 pm
Say no more

Nice of you to completely ignore my full post of which was a positive one just to dig at me, weirdo.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:33 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:29 pm
Nice of you to completely ignore my full post of which was a positive one just to dig at me, weirdo.

You said it yourself that you didn’t know the formation where as to others it was pretty evident what we were trying to do and hence why the OPs premise has been rejected.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:35 pm

It was a 5-2-3 off the ball essentially, didn’t think it was that hard to work out, Vitinho as a left wing back. I thought it was pretty smart from Kompany to surprise Pep and it disrupted their build up. Unfortunately we shot ourselves in the foot with the game plan by conceding so early from a set piece.

Players average positions last night (ignore 28 Al-Dakhil as he swapped to left centre back at HT):

Ampth7 · Post by **Ampth7** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:39 pm

What I would say about last night is that it’s clearly going to take some time for us to settle. We still have new transfers incoming and combine this with the fact some of them are very raw, don’t be shocked if we aren’t where we want to be in the league after 10 games.

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:39 pm

GetIntoEm wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:22 am
Please explain "lacking identity" I don't know what you mean

It means that they don't know who they are.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:50 pm

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:33 pm
You said it yourself that you didn’t know the formation where as to others it was pretty evident what we were trying to do and hence why the OPs premise has been rejected.

It wasn’t the initial 523 formation that was confusing, or the press high force them to kick it long tactic it was more the in game adjustments surrounding our left hand side than was a little confusing.

Last season we were used to Maatsen bombing forward and Cullen occupying the left back space, with Roberts inside. (Or visa Versa towards the end of the season).

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:53 pm

I think Vitinhos struggle at left back was mainly the reason for any question about shape, he didn’t really go forward, tuck inside or sit back and defend like a traditional left back.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:56 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:50 pm
It wasn’t the initial 523 formation that was confusing, or the press high force them to kick it long tactic it was more the in game adjustments surrounding our left hand side than was a little confusing.

Good observations and fair points!

In the MTB doc, Kompany mentioned that we were at a point in which we could flip between 4/5 shapes with little tweaks here and there during the games based upon what the opposition were doing.

I like our 4-2-3-1 as well, but I think the long term goal for the team will be the 4-1-4-1 that becomes a 2-3-4-1 in possession with fullbacks coming into midfield and having two sort of ‘number 8s’ and wingers hugging the touchline.

I think Kompany just wanted to match Pep last night and it was working really well - forced them to go long but Haaland was just too good for us and we ran out of steam.

Onwards and upwards

Longsidejono · Post by **Longsidejono** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 7:34 pm

My take is we are changing as fans we use to love pope, ings, mee, tarks, mcneil, Barnes ect no thrills

When cornet joined it was like he shouldn’t be playing for Burnley he does step overs and has flair

To now we are spoiled by benson and zaroury, the new lads that played koleosho brunn Larsen, amdouni they all looked exciting and if they played a cameo role they would have been stand out but seems like they are just going to be judged

People calling for Trafford to be dropped but pope couldn’t kick the ball properly

Madness let’s enjoy the season