Last throw of the dice at Goodison.

[Royboyclaret]

Everton today tabled an appeal against their 10 point deduction for flouting the rules. An independent commission will now be appointed to determine their fate, with a decision anticipated before the end of the season.

Without trying to pre-empt any conclusion........the word on the street early this afternoon is that they are simply clutching at straws having already admitted to breaching the Profit and Sustainability rules.

If the compensation claims by us, Forest, Leicester and others are upheld then Everton face a substantial financial claim from these clubs which would likely lead to administration and a subsequent loss of a further 9 points.

So much talk in the financial circles early this afternoon and would be very much interested in Chester Perry's view on the situation. Incidentally Burnley have 28 days to pursue a claim...... this really has to happen.

[Florian]

Take more.off em

[DAVETHEVICAR]

The Everton overspending is unclear as some of the overspending was not on players but funding loans on the Building of the new Football Stadium.
As the 10 point penalty is the highest given then I would be surprised if this is not reduced to around 4 points or even scrapped altogether.
Problem with the Burnley claim is that at the end of that season Everton breach had not been identified so they could not have been relegated.
Anyway we will all have to wait and see what the outcome is
UTC

[yTib]

the obsession with everton on here is misplaced.

there is so much more unfairness in footy at the mo and it seems everton seem to be a target for us because fans seem to have some belief that we can somehow benefit from their demise.

[Big Vinny K]

The overspending is not in dispute - it’s irrelevant whether it’s been spent on players or the new stadium.
It’s a breach of the rules and they do not appear to disputing this.

The appeal seems to be more about the proportionality of the punishment. With so few Premier League historic cases in this area it could be hard to argue this based on precedent.

The potential talk of administration and a further 9 points is all based on a very big assumption that the 3 clubs being rumoured to be asking for £100m compensation each will win their cases….and that will then send Everton into administration. So a lot of ifs and buts here and potentially a long wait too before this would happen.

I suppose another potential scenario is that the risk hanging over Everton’s head re potential compensation claims puts a halt on their proposed takeover and their financial situation with the new stadium build sends them into administration with the current owners refusing to put anymore funding in.

[Florian]

10 points will stand

[clansman]

As a claret fan of many years I feel deeply uneasy about any potential claim by BFC against Everton. Just imagine if it did, and I hope it never gets that far, result in Everton’s administration. Would you feel proud of such actions?? I think we are in danger of dragging the game down to new depths. I know Everton broke the rules( and how many other clubs have probably done so) but let the Leagues deal with it. It’s not the Burnley way to attack other clubs and it doesn’t sit well with me.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Whether they spent it on the stadium IS relevant because that is deductible, teams spend a fortune on new stadia and clearly big purchases like that can’t be funded from one year’s turnover.

But, Everton seem to accept a breach of the rules even allowing for that.

The thing for me about administration is that I don’t see how they can carry on building their new stadium in that eventuality, how could they borrow the funds for it if those funds are needed for creditors higher up the chain? So I think Everton will avoid that if at all possible. If there is compensation to be paid I expect the club’s to receive it.

p.s. it sits very well with me - our club will have had sales and redundancies because of our relegation, plus the suffering of the fans and the financial risk to the owners. Compensation is the least BFC deserve.

[Royboyclaret]

As a claret fan of many years I feel deeply uneasy about any potential claim by BFC against Everton. Just imagine if it did, and I hope it never gets that far, result in Everton’s administration. Would you feel proud of such actions?? I think we are in danger of dragging the game down to new depths. I know Everton broke the rules( and how many other clubs have probably done so) but let the Leagues deal with it. It’s not the Burnley way to attack other clubs and it doesn’t sit well with me.

Seriously, clansman ?

Burnley have always stayed within rules.

Everton have stepped way over the mark......ans must suffer the consequences.

[clansman]

I get that Royboy , all I’m saying is let the league deal with it. Just doesn’t feel right pursuing huge amounts of compensation when we weren’t good enough to stay up!

[Quickenthetempo]

Seriously, clansman ?

Burnley have always stayed within rules.

Everton have stepped way over the mark......ans must suffer the consequences.

How many transfer embargoes have we been under?

Haven't Leicester just settled their FFP claim with the football league? Just a few million fine?

Not a chance Everton will have all 10 points deducted. The prem will just have never ending court cases to deal with.

[ceborame]

As a claret fan of many years I feel deeply uneasy about any potential claim by BFC against Everton. Just imagine if it did, and I hope it never gets that far, result in Everton’s administration. Would you feel proud of such actions?? I think we are in danger of dragging the game down to new depths. I know Everton broke the rules( and how many other clubs have probably done so) but let the Leagues deal with it. It’s not the Burnley way to attack other clubs and it doesn’t sit well with me.

Do you think that Everton Football Club and their fans felt any remorse at all about our relegation due to their financial cheating ?

[clansman]

No I don’t but that’s not my point

[Royboyclaret]

How many transfer embargoes have we been under?

Haven't Leicester just settled their FFP claim with the football league? Just a few million fine?

Not a chance Everton will have all 10 points deducted. The prem will just have never ending court cases to deal with.

Trust me Quickenthetempo....Everton knew exactly the game they were playing and must now suffer the consequences........and that's a further 9 points deduction.......and believe me they no the score hovever much their "protestations".

[Jakubclaret]

Seriously, clansman ?

Burnley have always stayed within rules.

Everton have stepped way over the mark......ans must suffer the consequences.

They have stepped over the mark I wouldn’t say “way over” though, the wider footballing world are sympathetic & think it’s a disproportionate punishment on the high end bearing in mind you are only talking just over £20 mil & I wouldn’t be at all surprised with a reduction.

[Big Vinny K]

Whether they spent it on the stadium IS relevant because that is deductible, teams spend a fortune on new stadia and clearly big purchases like that can’t be funded from one year’s turnover.

But, Everton seem to accept a breach of the rules even allowing for that.

The thing for me about administration is that I don’t see how they can carry on building their new stadium in that eventuality, how could they borrow the funds for it if those funds are needed for creditors higher up the chain? So I think Everton will avoid that if at all possible. If there is compensation to be paid I expect the club’s to receive it.

p.s. it sits very well with me - our club will have had sales and redundancies because of our relegation, plus the suffering of the fans and the financial risk to the owners. Compensation is the least BFC deserve.

I meant that it is irrelevant in terms of the rules around nature and type expenditure are all clearly stated in the rules.
For things like stadium builds it will not be classified as everyday operating expenditure - there will be a raft of rules and accounting treatment around capital expenditure.

The initial defence offered by Everton seemed to be based on the impact of Covid - when this was found to be totally out of line with other clubs and their own finances it looks like they were happy to accept they had breached the rules over the time frame.

Their contention and the appeal is about the 10 points rather than the actual breach.

In terms of the compensation element this will be interesting. Not sure on my own view about it other than I think they need to set some boundaries.
For example there other clubs could also argue that they would have had more points - if you lost twice against Everton that’s potential 6 points which could be 2 or 3 places in the league difference or £5m or £6m. Take this further and what if that stopped you getting into Europe or even the Champions League and the financial impact of this ?

I wouldn’t want to see all these counter claims across the teams so maybe it is restricted to the relegated teams.

[clansman]

Good point Vinny about other teams who may have lost out. I know Everton broke the rules but let the league punish them.

[beddie]

the obsession with everton on here is misplaced.

there is so much more unfairness in footy at the mo and it seems everton seem to be a target for us because fans seem to have some belief that we can somehow benefit from their demise.

How do arrive at that conclusion. The bottom line is they broke the rules.

[Anonymous Claret]

the obsession with everton on here is misplaced.

there is so much more unfairness in footy at the mo and it seems everton seem to be a target for us because fans seem to have some belief that we can somehow benefit from their demise.

If they wouldn't have cheated in the first place by blatantly ignoring the Premier League's request when they were spending over their limit, they wouldn't be in this situation. I have zero sympathy at the moment. However if City and possibly Chelsea slither out of similar repercussions (if found guilty) or the punishment is not proportionate to Everton's then I may have some sympathy for them in the future.

Scroll down to the 'Everton's Financial Troubles' episode. The guest journalist explains how Everton knowingly ignored the Premier League's requirements to stay within the Profitability and Sustainability Rules (PSR). They were offered the opportunity to get things back on track and stay within the PSR but they chose to stick the proverbial 2 fingers up at the EPL and carry on spending.

https://www.bestpodcasts.co.uk/podcast/ ... -football/

[Royboyclaret]

I meant that it is irrelevant in terms of the rules around nature and type expenditure are all clearly stated in the rules.
For things like stadium builds it will not be classified as everyday operating expenditure - there will be a raft of rules and accounting treatment around capital expenditure.

The initial defence offered by Everton seemed to be based on the impact of Covid - when this was found to be totally out of line with other clubs and their own finances it looks like they were happy to accept they had breached the rules over the time frame.

Their contention and the appeal is about the 10 points rather than the actual breach.

In terms of the compensation element this will be interesting. Not sure on my own view about it other than I think they need to set some boundaries.
For example there other clubs could also argue that they would have had more points - if you lost twice against Everton that’s potential 6 points which could be 2 or 3 places in the league difference or £5m or £6m. Take this further and what if that stopped you getting into Europe or even the Champions League and the financial impact of this ?

I wouldn’t want to see all these counter claims across the teams so maybe it is restricted to the relegated teams.

Let's be clear, Everton knew exactly the game they were playing.

As a result they must suffer the consequences.

If Burnley prosper, as a result, then so be it.

[Big Vinny K]

How do arrive at that conclusion. The bottom line is they broke the rules.

They did.
But compared to what City and Chelsea have done down the years it does seem a disproportionately harsh punishment to me.
It’s ok this new person at the top saying she is going to clamp down and trying to set some kind of example with Everton.
About time too many would say but she is also in danger of setting a really dangerous precedent with future breaches. If it’s 10 points for a £20m breach - Man City with 115 charges going back 15 years have a hell of a lot to lose. And Chelsea with a proven corrupt Russian in charge for more than a decade won’t be far behind them.

[Big Vinny K]

Let's be clear, Everton knew exactly the game they were playing.

As a result they must suffer the consequences.

If Burnley prosper, as a result, then so be it.

It’s the consequences that are in dispute.
The vast majority of experts in the industry (if not all of them) were left very surprised at the 10 point deduction.

I have no opinion either way really as to the 10 points. I’m glad teams are finally being punished for cheating. Everton fabricated some nonsense about Covid to try and justify the breach so they definitely deserve some punishment IMHO.

What I am saying though is that there appears to be an element of the authorities being very inconsistent here with the way they have dealt with Everton compared to what we know is happening at other clubs and when that happens you are going to get appeals and legal cases galore.

[Royboyclaret]

They did.
But compared to what City and Chelsea have done down the years it does seem a disproportionately harsh punishment to me.
It’s ok this new person at the top saying she is going to clamp down and trying to set some kind of example with Everton.
About time too many would say but she is also in danger of setting a really dangerous precedent with future breaches. If it’s 10 points for a £20m breach - Man City with 115 charges going back 15 years have a hell of a lot to lose. And Chelsea with a proven corrupt Russian in charge for more than a decade won’t be far behind them.

Vinny.....let's stay within proportion here.....they broke the rules at Burnley's expense and must now pay the price.

The feeling as the afternoon goes along in the financial circles is they know exactly the consequences of their actions and must suffer whatever retribution comes their way from a fair minded appeal board.

[Royboyclaret]

Where's Chester Perry ?

[Big Vinny K]

Vinny.....let's stay within proportion here.....they broke the rules at Burnley's expense and must now pay the price.

The feeling as the afternoon goes along in the financial circles is they know exactly the consequences of their actions and must suffer whatever retribution comes their way from a fair minded appeal board.

I’m not sure what you are referring to with these financial circles but I can assure you 100% that they did not know what the punishment was going to be - but they did know and admit they had breached the rules.

All CP will be able to do is give you his opinion. He’s already posted a number of articles on this.

Nobody has the definitive answer you are looking for and I’m really surprised you think it’s this black and white given you seem to have a bit of previous financial experience.

If you look at all the cases of financial breaches down the years it’s not that hard to see that there is a large degree of inconsistency.

As said I have no issue whatsoever with them being punished for cheating

[bobinho]

Their appeal will be successful, no doubt in my mind about that.

[Goody1975]

There is a pot of money, in my opinion it doesn't matter where it is spent.

They had assets they could have sold to correct the imbalance but they chose not to, not cashing in those assets may have been the difference between survival and relegation.

[bfcjg]

Strange lot the Evermoanians, they hold banners up saying their boards are liars, but then portray them as above board squeaky clean who adhered to rules with just one teeny weeny mistake.

gettyimages-1246412110-612x612.jpg (57.49 KiB) Viewed 4025 times

Their owner got his money rather suspiciously as well.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... -ownership

[Royboyclaret]

There is a pot of money, in my opinion it doesn't matter where it is spent.

They had assets they could have sold to correct the imbalance but they chose not to, not cashing in those assets may have been the difference between survival and relegation.

You nailed it, Goody.

[Royboyclaret]

Evertyhing surrounds around the new stadium costs......Quite simply they way underestimated the costs of the over all build.......Which clearly effected the interest payable on the amount borrowwed.

In truth the figure above the permissable £105m over three seasons is way under stated.

The commisssion will have little doubt as to where the blame lies, which is where all the financial talk surrounds this afternoon.

[Paul Waine]

I've read today that Everton are at risk of breaching P&SR again when they submit their accounts for 2022/23 season. The suggestion in the article was that would lead to a further points reduction. All Premier League clubs - including Burnley - have to submit their accounts for last season (most are year end 30th June, BFC year end 31st July) to Premier League by 31st December. These accounts will be assessed quickly, I think by 15th Jan 2024 was indicated. Any accounts that fail the 3 year P&SR rules will be judged by mid-April and points deduction applied to the 2023/24 season. Unlucky for Everton if the Premier League is starting to catch up, as they will suffer 2 sets of points deductions in one season for 2 separate breaches across 2 groups of 3 seasons. (Of course, it depends on if they have pulled back on their overspending...).

[Nori1958]

Where's Chester Perry ?

Too busy listing all the financial deadlines burnley have missed

[Royboyclaret]

I've read today that Everton are at risk of breaching P&SR again when they submit their accounts for 2022/23 season. The suggestion in the article was that would lead to a further points reduction. All Premier League clubs - including Burnley - have to submit their accounts for last season (most are year end 30th June, BFC year end 31st July) to Premier League by 31st December. These accounts will be assessed quickly, I think by 15th Jan 2024 was indicated. Any accounts that fail the 3 year P&SR rules will be judged by mid-April and points deduction applied to the 2023/24 season. Unlucky for Everton if the Premier League is starting to catch up, as they will suffer 2 sets of points deductions in one season for 2 separate breaches across 2 groups of 3 seasons. (Of course, it depends on if they have pulled back on their overspending...).

Which is I've had indicate over the last few post's, Paul.

[Royboyclaret]

Too busy listing all the financial deadlines burnley have missed

Too busy listing financial deadlines ?

Don't think so, Nori1958.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Looks like the three teams are set to withdraw there plans to sue Everton.

Perhaps it’s not quite as cut and dry as some on here make out.

[Nori1958]

Too busy listing financial deadlines ?

Don't think so, Nori1958.

That was his post today on the takeover thread, have a read then come back

[Royboyclaret]

Looks like the three teams are set to withdraw there plans to sue Everton.

Perhaps it’s not quite as cut and dry as some on here make out.

Trust me it's very much cut and dry.

Everton are legless.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Trust me it's very much cut and dry.

Everton are legless.

Why would all three teams withdraw there plan to sue? If it’s as cut and dry as you believe

[Royboyclaret]

Why would all three teams withdraw there plan to sue? If it’s as cut and dry as you believe

Quite simply the Burnley situation is completley different to others,

[GodIsADeeJay81]

They broke the rules
They know they’ve broken the rules
They just feel the punishment doesn’t suit the rule breaking but it’s quite light in reality

They deserve everything they get, as do City and Chelsea by the looks of it

The PL either cracks down on everyone properly and sets precedents or just allows more rule breaking, at which point it’s not worth following English football anymore

Plus if the League allows it to carry on, the Government will definitely step in and crackdown hard

[daveisaclaret]

Why would all three teams withdraw there plan to sue? If it’s as cut and dry as you believe

The story being reported is that the clubs are going to withdraw plans to sue because they don't want to force Everton into administration and that Everton will settle out of court with all three clubs.

[Royboyclaret]

They broke the rules
They know they’ve broken the rules
They just feel the punishment doesn’t suit the rule breaking but it’s quite light in reality

They deserve everything they get, as do City and Chelsea by the looks of it

The PL either cracks down on everyone properly and sets precedents or just allows more rule breaking, at which point it’s not worth following English football anymore

Plus if the League allows it to carry on, the Government will definitely step in and crackdown hard

Cheers, Sidney.

But not sure about the Govt. steppng in.

[Nonayforever]

Football has dug a money hole with the help of the FA.
Owners have dug deeper than the FA wanted , the hole has become so deep the FA don't know how to fill it, so they will forget about that hole and start digging another.

[Goody1975]

What I keep hearing is the fact that the sanction is wholly inappropriate for the crime committed and see the figure just £19.5 Million banded around.

The facts are clubs can make total losses over a three year period of £105 Million and Everton lost £124.5 Million, there is already a safety net and they breached it.

If you speed on the motorway most constabularies allow a 10% margin + 2, so 79 miles per hour before prosecution. If you get done for travelling at 81mph you can't say it's not fair because it's only 2mph over.

This is what Everton are doing, there is a very fair buffer for clubs to abide by, they didn't adhere to it. Tough.

[Royboyclaret]

Football has dug a money hole with the help of the FA.
Owners have dug deeper than the FA wanted , the hole has become so deep the FA don't know how to fill it, so they will forget about that hole and start digging another.

No answer to that.

[Royboyclaret]

What I keep hearing is the fact that the sanction is wholly inappropriate for the crime committed and see the figure just £19.5 Million banded around.

The facts are clubs can make total losses over a three year period of £105 Million and Everton lost £124.5 Million, there is already a safety net and they breached it.

If you speed on the motorway most constabularies allow a 10% margin + 2, so 79 miles per hour before prosecution. If you get done for travelling at 81mph you can't say it's not fair because it's only 2mph over.

This is what Everton are doing, there is a very fair buffer for clubs to abide by, they didn't adhere to it. Tough.

Goody, this is what Everton are doing......playing outside the rules.... they knew exactly where their stadium costs were heading...... now just accept the cosequences.

[Anonymous Claret]

What I keep hearing is the fact that the sanction is wholly inappropriate for the crime committed and see the figure just £19.5 Million banded around.

The facts are clubs can make total losses over a three year period of £105 Million and Everton lost £124.5 Million, there is already a safety net and they breached it.

If you speed on the motorway most constabularies allow a 10% margin + 2, so 79 miles per hour before prosecution. If you get done for travelling at 81mph you can't say it's not fair because it's only 2mph over.

This is what Everton are doing, there is a very fair buffer for clubs to abide by, they didn't adhere to it. Tough.

Good analogy.

Another analogy. A man goes to the magistrates court for shoplifting. The magistrate puts him on probation, tells him to abide by the law and warns the man if he appears in court again for a similar offence he will send him to prison.

The man immediately leaves court and is caught shoplifting, appears back before the court and is sent to prison. The man's friends and family (Everton fans) cry like little babies at the injustice that the man has been sent to prison.

I still remember many Everton fans I know laughing at us in 2022. Not laughing now are they?

[DAVETHEVICAR]

There is no way Everton will be deducted 10 points or Burnley will be able to claim any money

[Goody1975]

Good analogy.

Another analogy. A man goes to the magistrates court for shoplifting. The magistrate puts him on probation, tells him to abide by the law and warns the man if he appears in court again for a similar offence he will send him to prison.

The man immediately leaves court and is caught shoplifting, appears back before the court and is sent to prison. The man's friends and family (Everton fans) cry like little babies at the injustice that the man has been sent to prison.

I still remember many Everton fans I know laughing at us in 2022. Not laughing now are they?

I reckon this might be the same fella.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

There is no way Everton will be deducted 10 points or Burnley will be able to claim any money

Everton are appealing the number of points, not the verdict itself.

Therefore the 3 clubs, Burnley, Leeds and Leicester have grounds to make a claim