Team for Sheff United?

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:00 pm

claretcarrot93 wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:02 pm
Been decent last 3 games. Isn't much between him and Roberts and an upgrade is needed

His deficiency against West Ham wasn't his defensive skills but his inability to create anything when in acres of space.

Obviously the role of the right back is completely different when JBG is playing compared to Benson or Trevor.

I agree, a right back is one of the serious priorities, alongside one or two other glaring issues.

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:03 pm

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:56 pm
Same team I’d imagine , though like to see Ekdal start . Sheff Utd are dreadful , they literally offer nothing except rough house tactics . If we play like we did against West Ham for 80 mins we’ll beat them comfortably.

ie played well for 80 min but didn't score. We had a penalty, without that, it would have been 2-0. If Obafemi is fit, he should play, we need goals.

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:14 pm

Goody1975 wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:00 pm
His deficiency against West Ham wasn't his defensive skills but his inability to create anything when in acres of space.

Obviously the role of the right back is completely different when JBG is playing compared to Benson or Trevor.

I agree, a right back is one of the serious priorities, alongside one or two other glaring issues.

Trevor?

I blame predictive text

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:19 pm

Interesting to read how many want Ekdal in for O’Shea. For me, if Ekdal was coming in, it would be for Beyer.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:52 pm

When picking my team I completely forgot about Ramsay. He showed some great touches and movement off the ball last week. If he is fully fit and physically strong enough to play against a very physically strong Sheff U then start him.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:53 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:19 pm
Interesting to read how many want Ekdal in for O’Shea. For me, if Ekdal was coming in, it would be for Beyer.

It’s just the question of who could play lcb - for the record I think Delcroix has done better than some people like to suggest anyway. Would also have a natural left footer there.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:14 pm

Goody1975 wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:00 pm
His deficiency against West Ham wasn't his defensive skills but his inability to create anything when in acres of space.

Obviously the role of the right back is completely different when JBG is playing compared to Benson or Trevor.

I agree, a right back is one of the serious priorities, alongside one or two other glaring issues.

Defensively he'll always be a liability but I agree that he flatters to deceive from an attacking point of view and this is where some supporters actually feel he offers us something. I've lost count of the amount of times he gets into great positions in space and fails to deliver anything time and time again. No cross, no shot, can't beat a man, struggles to retain possession and just looks out of ideas.

I agree that Roberts isn't the answer (although interestingly Roberts doesn't seem to be afforded the opportunity to play the same role as Vitinho) but any team that is even contemplating putting him in the starting XI at this level is going to have a long afternoon.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:50 pm

Just one change for me: Beyer to right back and Ekdal in at centre back. I'm not sure Vitinho is as dicey as some on here make out, but we need as much presence at the back as we can get.

Everything else as we were last week.

Westleigh · Post by **Westleigh** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:58 pm

claretspice wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:50 pm
Just one change for me: Beyer to right back and Ekdal in at centre back. I'm not sure Vitinho is as dicey as some on here make out, but we need as much presence at the back as we can get.

Everything else as we were last week.

Isn’t Beyer left footed?

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:01 pm

Westleigh wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:58 pm
Isn’t Beyer left footed?

No.

But he'll hopefully stay at centre half.

CryerBFC · Post by **CryerBFC** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:08 pm

How I think VK lines up:

Trafford
Vitinho OShea Beyer Taylor
Brownhill Berge
JBG Koleosho
Amdouni Jay-Rod

Worryingly, I dont feel Trafford, Vitinho, JBG, Koleosho, Amdouni and Jay will deal very well with Sheff Utds physicality. I hope come 5pm tomorrow I’m proved wrong, but even if we get the ball down and play, they’ll just sit their back 5 in a line and we’ll struggle to break them down.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:16 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:10 pm
Conceding more than two goals on game on average.

Let’s add more flair

Attack is a form of defence

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:24 pm

BleedingClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:16 pm
Attack is a form of defence

Didn't work for the Casuals when we spearheaded the attack.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:32 pm

taio wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:01 pm
No.

But he'll hopefully stay at centre half.

Where he’s been bloody awful

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:18 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:32 pm
Where he’s been bloody awful

He's had some difficult moments like most our players this season but he's our best centre half. So I'd be starting him there tomorrow in such an important game. I don't believe he's been awful.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:34 am

taio wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:18 pm
He's had some difficult moments like most our players this season but he's our best centre half. So I'd be starting him there tomorrow in such an important game. I don't believe he's been awful.

If he's been out best centre half this season then we are really are in trouble. I just can't see how people are not seeing his errors.

Carlos the Great · Post by **Carlos the Great** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:38 am

Hope we don’t concede from a corner in injury time ….

Boydesque · Post by **Boydesque** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:41 am

Wow I can see another Kevin McDonald moment arising

matttheclaret · Post by **matttheclaret** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:55 am

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:34 am
If he's been out best centre half this season then we are really are in trouble. I just can't see how people are not seeing his errors.

All our players are making errors though, and plenty of them at that, and yes we really are in trouble.

As for Beyer, I'm not convinced he's been fully fit at any point this season which doesn't help but I think it's clear that VK sees him as his best centre back. He's tried various combinations at the back but the one player who always plays, if available, is Beyer.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:07 am

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:34 am
If he's been out best centre half this season then we are really are in trouble. I just can't see how people are not seeing his errors.

We are in trouble. People are aware of his errors - I said as much. The thing is many of our players have made mistakes and underperformed. I'd be interested to know his average player rating this season compared to the other centre halves. Personally I'd play him today at centre half and move O'Shea to right back given the opposition.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:22 am

taio wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:07 am
We are in trouble. People are aware of his errors - I said as much. The thing is many of our players have made mistakes and underperformed. I'd be interested to know his average player rating this season compared to the other centre halves. Personally I'd play him today at centre half and move O'Shea to right back given the opposition.

Why would you move O'Shea to right back? Has he ever played there?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:23 am

matttheclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:55 am
All our players are making errors though, and plenty of them at that, and yes we really are in trouble.

As for Beyer, I'm not convinced he's been fully fit at any point this season which doesn't help but I think it's clear that VK sees him as his best centre back. He's tried various combinations at the back but the one player who always plays, if available, is Beyer.

Yes, they are all making errors and we are looking a really poor team at this level right now. I'll be honest and say I was mystified last Saturday when I saw some of the ratings for Beyer, many giving him seven. It might be me, but if he's getting sevens, that's not what I've seen this season.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:26 am

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:22 am
Why would you move O'Shea to right back? Has he ever played there?

I don't think Vitinho is equipped to play at right back at this level, and I think playing O'Shea there would give us more strength and robustness for todays game. If not, Roberts back in.

Yes he has played at right back.

What would your preferred line-up be?

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:11 am

Goody1975 wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:24 pm
Didn't work for the Casuals when we spearheaded the attack.

From memory, revisionism, we were perfect

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:28 am

BleedingClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:11 am
From memory, revisionism, we were perfect

We were but the defence, less so.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:50 am

Surely we all know exactly what we are going to get today. An aerial assault. If VK doesn't set us up to deal with that, then he will have lost the plot. Playing Vitineo at rb today would be suicide. I think Beyer would make a good rb and a good sitter in front of a back 4. He is not physical enough to be a PL cb.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:56 am

taio wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:26 am
I don't think Vitinho is equipped to play at right back at this level, and I think playing O'Shea there would give us more strength and robustness for todays game. If not, Roberts back in.

Yes he has played at right back.

What would your preferred line-up be?

He never played right back for West Brom and I can't recall him playing right back for us. It's a position that needs strengthening without a doubt.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:05 am

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:56 am
He never played right back for West Brom and I can't recall him playing right back for us. It's a position that needs strengthening without a doubt.

I'm almost certain he has played at right back for West Brom on occasions. I can't recall him playing there for us either.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:13 am

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:56 am
He never played right back for West Brom and I can't recall him playing right back for us. It's a position that needs strengthening without a doubt.

It looks as though he played 24 times at right back for West Brom.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:15 am

taio wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:13 am
It looks as though he played 24 times at right back for West Brom.

Really? I was told he never played right back for them. Where's that info come from?

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:19 am

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:15 am
Really? I was told he never played right back for them. Where's that info come from?

Transfer market.com - separately checked some of the line-ups using that data and the information appears correct. This includes some PL games at right back. So I don't believe it's an outlandish suggestion him playing there for us against Sheff Utd, although I recognise it won't happen.

sjb · Post by **sjb** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:22 am

I'd move O'Shea. As far away from the first team as possible. His distribution is dreadful and his positional sense non existent. Wins a few headers and that's about it.

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:23 am

I have a baggie fan mate, and reckons O’Shea is as comfortable at right back as he is at centre back, but purely defensive minded and doesn’t cross a ball. In our system I think that would be fine as we don’t seen many overlap runs with the winger on the right

Greekclaret · Post by **Greekclaret** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:24 am

They’ll try to bully us and we can’t match that as we don’t have the physical presence they do. We have to outplay them so the most technical/direct team possible

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:25 am

sjb wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:22 am
I'd move O'Shea. As far away from the first team as possible. His distribution is dreadful and his positional sense non existent. Wins a few headers and that's about it.

At least he wins headers

sjb · Post by **sjb** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:26 am

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:25 am
At least he wins headers

And Beyer doesn't?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:29 am

sjb wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:26 am
And Beyer doesn't?

Not anywhere near enough - since he came back, he's given the goal away against Palace, been beaten in the air by Saka for their first goal at Arsenal and, although not blaming him for the goal, what on earth was he doing for West Ham's equaliser.

I really think there is a blind spot for a lot of people with Beyer.

spt_claret · Post by **spt_claret** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:38 am

Beyer has made mistakes but I still have more faith in him than O'Shea. But the 9 game run with him and Ekdal last season saw him (and Muric) at their best. Ekdal brings something to the defence beyond his own ability that just seemed to add composure and assuredness in his teammates, Murics errors vanished and Beyer started looking unstoppable. Can't fathom why he's not in the team.

I'd play Muric if he's fit but looks like he won't be.

Jay had his best game last week but still was never going to score without the penalty. I'm aware of what he brings in effort and height but it's not enough, Obafemi to start for me.

Find it hilarious and ridiculous that people keep thinking that the lineup that's not won a game is the one to stick with. Can see the argument for any of Vitinho, Roberts or O'Shea at RB today not got a clear preference.

433:

--------------------------------Trafford (if Muric isn't fit)
Take your pick --- Ekdal --------- Beyer --------- Taylor

-------------Gudmundsson- Brownhill - Berge
Obafemi------------------------------------------------Koleosho
--------------------------------Amdouni

Obafemi playing as a wide forward in the Tella role working channels and coming inside. Amdouni in the Firminio style false 9 dropping back to pull the defence out of shape for the wide men. Koleosho is more naturally a go on the outside winger but I'd give him 60 mins then look at either Zaroury, Brun Larsen or if fit Benson. 3 in midfield pulling JBG back into a slightly offset central playmaker role. Aim to be as compact and physical at the back as possible and hit fast on the break.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:52 pm

My preferred CB pairing would be Beyer and Ekdal. And I'd like proper FBs playing in their correct positions, it's a specialised position and the last thing you need is stand-ins because they're taller.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:04 pm

Larsen starts.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:19 pm

dougcollins wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:52 pm
My preferred CB pairing would be Beyer and Ekdal. And I'd like proper FBs playing in their correct positions, it's a specialised position and the last thing you need is stand-ins because they're taller.

Beyer played their for Germany U21s and Mönchengladbach numerous times.

Though I do agree with your sentiment