Criminal

[kenyon6923]

To keep playing out from the back when you are capable of GIVING goals away, wolves never even had to earn it. We are not good enough for this league so guess what we certainly are not good enough to give teams 1 goal start.
Needs to go longer and we press from the 2nd ball higher up the pitch surely, put it this way you can never give a goal away that way.

[MT03ALG]

Play like the old Colne Dynamoes. Keeper gets the ball, everyone hits the half way line. Not pretty but you apply the golden rule of football i.e. never to lose the ball in your own half

[fidelcastro]

People were getting giddy after Saturday.

This is what happens when you play an established PL team and you make the same mistakes over and over again.

When will Kompany ever learn that we aren't good enough to play that way?

[tarkys_ears]

Play like the old Colne Dynamoes. Keeper gets the ball, everyone hits the half way line. Not pretty but you apply the golden rule of football i.e. never to lose the ball in your own half

In your own goal area would be a start

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Perhaps if we took the 2 big chances just before they scored then their goal would not have occurred as they would have to restart.
If we played another hour we would not have scored as their is no end product.

[Billyblah]

I was rather expecting another brief appearance from Michael Obefami. He's fast and powerful. Maybe he's injured again.

[Tricky Trevor]

Our defence have been solid in a lot of matches but crapped on by the madness.
Launching the ball into the other half would generate as many opportunities for us as the current system does and would reduce the oppositions chances just by starting them in their own half.

[scouseclaret]

Like Crystal Palace and West Ham before them, Wolves did nothing to win this game. Teams just know they can let us have the ball, safe in the knowledge we won’t do enough with it, and we will eventually gift them a goal or two.

[Elizabeth]

You might as well have a sweepstake as to the Burnley player to make a mistake before every game.

[elwaclaret]

There is a collapse in confidence after we go behind. It is up to the coaches to switch playing style once the opposition starts chasing down… this could have been avoided tonight; the lads are young, so guide them.

It’s great that we’re getting so much respect that Wolves were willing to play away in front of their own fans… but we’ve got to start making them pay for it.

[JR1882]

Same again, teams don’t need to beat us, if they are patient we will give them a goal.

Amazing (worrying) how little threat we carry without Luca

[ElectroClaret]

People were getting giddy after Saturday.

This is what happens when you play an established PL team and you make the same mistakes over and over again.

That's why we're going down.
We're not learning.

Sorry, but there it is.
As someone posted the other week, we won't win enough games to stay up.

[KRBFC]

I don’t agree we aren’t good enough to play that way at all, thought we’ve shown we can play that way successfully in this league. The last 3 home games for a start where we’ve dominated the games possession wise.

The problem is you’re going to make mistakes playing that way and teams at this level are brutal. We simply aren’t brutal up the other end. I felt we went long a lot tonight but we had no target, Rodriguez spent half the night anywhere but central providing a target to play off.

[Darnhill Claret]

A hat-trick of mistakes. Trafford chooses not to pick the ball up. Vitinho plays a ball from his position wide right into Berge, in the centre of th pitch, who is marked by a Wolves player. Berge miscontrols the ball and gives possession to Wolves on the edge of our penalty area.

[ElectroClaret]

The last 3 home games for a start where we’ve dominated the games possession wise.

But got nothing points-wise, apart from 3 against a laughably bad Sheffield United.

We're in real trouble.

[Darnhill Claret]

Not sure now if it was Vitinho or O'Shea who passed it to Berge.

[taio]

Not sure now if it was Vitinho or O'Shea who passed it to Berge.

O'Shea

[KRBFC]

But got nothing points-wise, apart from 3 against a laughably bad Sheffield United.

We're in real trouble.

Agree but when you’re on top away from home and spurn chances like Rodriguez did then you’re always going to get punished for it. How many balls did Trafford clip up to Rodriguez? How many did he win? We need a target in the box for a cross and he’s stood outwide and when he is in the box he’s giving away fouls.

We have nothing centrally upfront for the others to play off, desperately need someone to hold the ball up.

[ElectroClaret]

Agree but when you’re on top away from home and spurn chances like Rodriguez did then you’re always going to get punished for it. How many balls did Trafford clip up to Rodriguez? How many did he win? We need a target in the box for a cross and he’s stood outwide and when he is in the box he’s giving away fouls.

We have nothing centrally upfront for the others to play off, desperately need someone to hold the ball up.

That's right.
As others have said many times, millions have been squandered in the summer on poor signings.

The midfield and central striker positions, as you say, badly need strengthening.

Just hope they get it right in January.

[elwaclaret]

Not sure now if it was Vitinho or O'Shea who passed it to Berge.

It was O’Shea, but it was already clear by the time he got the ball that Wolves were set, and that was the last thing we should be trying to do… that is for the coaches to get into them. We were the better team, but confidence took a yard off our game after another mistake. The players don’t seem able to go again after falling behind. Nothing wrong with effort but they lose a yard to confidence. I think that is what we used to call a first goal wins, game. When they press go long is not that hard to get over, even during a match.

[TommyPicks]

A performance that sums up why we will go down. File amongst the West Ham and Palace games. We have periods in games when we’re on top (see first half tonight) and invariably fail to capitalise on our good moments. Experienced PL teams then have the nous to press us high, or cause us to make mistakes and they’re clinical enough to make sure we’re punished.

I had the faintest sense of optimism following the 5-0 win, and better home performances in the 2 games prior to this, but not now. There’s elements of growth and progress, but it’s still massively overshadowed by naivety and lack of know how at this level.

That’s effectively 40% of the season gone and we’ve won 2 games and drawn 1. That game tonight if its 2 experienced PL teams absolutely reeks of a draw, and we’ve managed to lose it in the same way we have seen multiple times this season.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Worth pointing out they made the same mistake as us, more or less.

No surprise the two mistakes led to the two best chances of the game. Finishing was the difference.

I then flicked over channels and saw Berge’s mate Odeguaard give the ball away badly as well.

So really, it doesn’t prove we aren’t fit to be a PL team as some are saying. We do need to build in some triggers though for what to do in those situations. If O’Shea sells Berge a pup it was still an easy first time pass back to Trafford, ok on his left foot but still fairly safe. That’s drills on the training ground.

[kenyon6923]

Nearly 13 months ago we did the same against blackpool at home, their 1st goal - different players - totally different calibre of opposition and a much much weaker league. But unlike last season where most teams you can say never mind we will make 15 more chances before end of match so we should be OK we are being punished.
If you watch teams like Brighton, Liverpool and Chelsea getting caught out at times (and other teams) by playing out from the back surely you have to realise we definitely not good enough to consistently do it without giving goals away.

[Vegas Claret]

we were a shite Jay Rod finish away from taking the lead - he scores that the mistake doesn't happen

[Quicknick]

Perhaps if we took the 2 big chances just before they scored then their goal would not have occurred as they would have to restart.
If we played another hour we would not have scored as their is no end product.

Agreed but we committed a foul on the dead-ball line just before the ball was played inside for the first attempt on goal.

[Spijed]

It seems that VK would rather us play this way, concede goals and maybe lose than tell players to boot the ball clear at every opportunity.

Oh well

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Playing out from the back was something we watched other teams do and we mocked it generally, when we had Dyche as manager

We all knew what would happen to the lesser quality teams at the time and it invariably did

[Herts Clarets]

we were a shite Jay Rod finish away from taking the lead - he scores that the mistake doesn't happen

The most valuable commodity in football is goals. The most valuable players are those who can score goals regularly. We have a 34 year old as our central striker, who lacks pace, has never been prolific in his career - he is a 1 in 4 man, so 9 ish goals a season and when presented with a golden opportunity last night hit it straight at the keeper. After that I forgot he was on the pitch, so little did he offer up front. I am afraid Saturday was a false dawn against the worst side in the division who also didn't appear to be playing for their manager.

Once Koleosho went off, that was the end of Burnley as a threat in this game, Wolves could sit back knowing we didn't have the pace or skill to get through their back 4. JBG for Luca was baffling, we replace a lightning quick left winger with a pedestrian right winger and the taps well and truly ran dry. And the bizarre idea to bring on 2 subs 1 minute into 3 added and think it would make any kind of difference was utterly baffling. As was sending up a keeper for a corner who is incapable of getting near a cross in his own box with the advantage of using his hands, never mind trying to get a head on one in the opposition box.

[Belgianclaret]

Watched the replay a few times.
It is clear that Wolves were set up to pounce on such mistake.
Our tactics to draw them so close to our goal by using g Trafford as a distributor is flawed.
But O Shea should never have played such a lateral pass to Berge, who was clearly under pressure.
Always play the ball up the line when under pressure, that’s what we teach young players.
These are risks which Man City can afford to take but not us

[bumba]

I don’t agree we aren’t good enough to play that way at all, thought we’ve shown we can play that way successfully in this league. The last 3 home games for a start where we’ve dominated the games possession wise.

The problem is you’re going to make mistakes playing that way and teams at this level are brutal. We simply aren’t brutal up the other end. I felt we went long a lot tonight but we had no target, Rodriguez spent half the night anywhere but central providing a target to play off.

I know you hated Dyche's style and wanted this style but you've got to open your eyes, to label anything since promotion a success is laughable.
The summer was a complete disaster, VK's been miles out of his depth, he has no plan B and we're going down in an embarrassing fashion.
We aren't good enough to play this style out from the back especially last night with that back five.
Do you think we're dominating teams like Palace and West Ham at home through our quality? I think they've both got two good experiences managers who said stay tight and compact keep Burnley at arms length and then when they make their usual mistake capitalise and that's exactly how they played out.
Were too easy to play against it's slow and predictable it's a frustrating style not enjoyable at all.

[Kilson810]

I know you hated Dyche's style and wanted this style but you've got to open your eyes, to label anything since promotion a success is laughable.
The summer was a complete disaster, VK's been miles out of his depth, he has no plan B and we're going down in an embarrassing fashion.
We aren't good enough to play this style out from the back especially last night with that back five.
Do you think we're dominating teams like Palace and West Ham at home through our quality? I think they've both got two good experiences managers who said stay tight and compact keep Burnley at arms length and then when they make their usual mistake capitalise and that's exactly how they played out.
Were too easy to play against it's slow and predictable it's a frustrating style not enjoyable at all.

Precisely, that last 5 mins against wolves last night proved that. They just kept the ball and we could not get anywhere near it. Teams are clearly just letting us have the ball knowing we won't hurt them and then when they need to take control and slow the game down, they do that. So easy to play against (unless you are Sheff Utd who are even worse).

[NickBFC]

It really is beyond frustrating to watch the same thing happen time and time again. We really are the masters of our own downfall.

[KRBFC]

I know you hated Dyche's style and wanted this style but you've got to open your eyes, to label anything since promotion a success is laughable.
The summer was a complete disaster, VK's been miles out of his depth, he has no plan B and we're going down in an embarrassing fashion.
We aren't good enough to play this style out from the back especially last night with that back five.
Do you think we're dominating teams like Palace and West Ham at home through our quality? I think they've both got two good experiences managers who said stay tight and compact keep Burnley at arms length and then when they make their usual mistake capitalise and that's exactly how they played out.
Were too easy to play against it's slow and predictable it's a frustrating style not enjoyable at all.

How many goals have we conceded this season from playing out from the back? 2? You’re just quick to jump on the negative.

We didn’t make a mistake from playing it out against West Ham and I refuse to believe Moyes had a master plan of allowing us to dominate all game then score two at the end.

As for the no plan B, it was highlighted Saturday how we were going longer and mixing it up well. VK has changed the team about 20 times and formation too. You can have 20 plans if the players just lack consistency and quality in key areas it’s a league you get punished in.

[KRBFC]

I think the biggest reason we are struggling is not because we’ve given up 2 goals from playing it out all season its up the other end when we’re squandering chances.

We were the better side in the first half but what chance do you have when you can’t put the ball in the net? You simply have to capitalise when you’re on top in a game.

[bumba]

How many goals have we conceded this season from playing out from the back? 2? You’re just quick to jump on the negative.

We didn’t make a mistake from playing it out against West Ham and I refuse to believe Moyes had a master plan of allowing us to dominate all game then score two at the end.

As for the no plan B, it was highlighted Saturday how we were going longer and mixing it up well. VK has changed the team about 20 times and formation too. You can have 20 plans if the players just lack consistency and quality in key areas it’s a league you get punished in.

You wouldn't ever give any credit to an old manager like Moyes but he's ten times the manager VK is currently.
How many times have we invited pressure from playing out from the back?
Teams don't have to do much to beat us they just wait for our mistakes whether that's in our own half or somewhere else on the pitch how many have we conceded from our own mistakes? A lot more than two.
Who's fault is it the players lack consistency and quality?
Last year's team was consistent and full of quality they'd have stayed up but VK spent £100 million plus and made us weaker and unbalanced

[bumba]

How many goals have we conceded this season from playing out from the back? 2? You’re just quick to jump on the negative.

We didn’t make a mistake from playing it out against West Ham and I refuse to believe Moyes had a master plan of allowing us to dominate all game then score two at the end.

As for the no plan B, it was highlighted Saturday how we were going longer and mixing it up well. VK has changed the team about 20 times and formation too. You can have 20 plans if the players just lack consistency and quality in key areas it’s a league you get punished in.

As for quick to jump on the negative we've lost 12 out of 15 league games, at what point is it ok to point out the obvious?
Were on track to go down as one of the worst teams in premier league history

[KRBFC]

You wouldn't ever give any credit to an old manager like Moyes but he's ten times the manager VK is currently.
How many times have we invited pressure from playing out from the back?
Teams don't have to do much to beat us they just wait for our mistakes whether that's in our own half or somewhere else on the pitch how many have we conceded from our own mistakes? A lot more than two.
Who's fault is it the players lack consistency and quality?
Last year's team was consistent and full of quality they'd have stayed up but VK spent £100 million plus and made us weaker and unbalanced

We played West Ham off the park, we’re improving.

What are you talking about? Last seasons team?

Muric debatable
Taylor still playing
Beyer injured for the majority
Ekdal injured all season
Roberts awful so far
Cullen awful so far
Gudmundsson not good enough
Brownhill think he’s done well recently
Benson injured all season
Zaroury shown nothing in brief glimpses
Rodriguez not good enough

Al Dakhil not good enough
Twine shown nothing in the league below for Hull
Vitinho naive but improving
Foster out for the majority
Cork struggled with the pace last season
Obafemi injured all season

Who’s left? The majority of last seasons team is still here and they’re struggling individually.

Last seasons team was full of quality, then where have they gone? Half the squad has been injured for the majority of the games.

[bumba]

We played West Ham off the park, we’re improving.

What are you talking about? Last seasons team?

Muric debatable
Taylor still playing
Beyer injured for the majority
Ekdal injured all season
Roberts awful so far
Cullen awful so far
Gudmundsson not good enough
Brownhill think he’s done well recently
Benson injured all season
Zaroury shown nothing in brief glimpses
Rodriguez not good enough

Al Dakhil not good enough
Twine shown nothing in the league below for Hull
Vitinho naive but improving
Foster out for the majority
Cork struggled with the pace last season
Obafemi injured all season

Who’s left? The majority of last seasons team is still here and they’re struggling individually.

Last seasons team was full of quality, then where have they gone? Half the squad has been injured for the majority of the games.

How many have been given a fair chance? Majority should have started the first few games and kept momentum.
Were on target to be in the top 5 lowest points tally how can you say people are being negative?
Your clutching at straws because you wanted this style more than anybody else but it's failed at this level, the managers failed, everything since promotion has been a monumental failure.
The blame solely lies with VK and Pace.
Not sure how losing game after game is improving

[KRBFC]

How many have been given a fair chance? Majority should have started the first few games and kept momentum.
Were on target to be in the top 5 lowest points tally how can you say people are being negative?
Your clutching at straws because you wanted this style more than anybody else but it's failed at this level, the managers failed, everything since promotion has been a monumental failure.
The blame solely lies with VK and Pace.
Not sure how losing game after game is improving

Go on then where’s the PL quality in that list? who hasn’t been given a fair shot? Muric and Zaroury I’ll agree on.

You and others keep banging on about last seasons team so I provided you the list…..

[ElectroClaret]

...I refuse to believe Moyes had a master plan of allowing us to dominate all game then score two at the end.

He didn't need any kind of plan, VK screwed us up himself by his absurd substitutions at the end when we were easily closing the game out.

That was criminal.

[KRBFC]

He didn't need any kind of plan, VK screwed us up himself by his absurd substitutions at the end when we were easily closing the game out.

That was criminal.

Hate to break it to you but we will likely lose at Brighton too, they’ve been at this level longer, spent considerably more and have better players, they’re a better team than us.

[Spijed]

Hate to break it to you but we will likely lose at Brighton too, they’ve been at this level longer, spent considerably more and have better players, they’re a better team than us.

Sheff United got a draw there.

[bumba]

Go on then where’s the PL quality in that list? who hasn’t been given a fair shot? Muric and Zaroury I’ll agree on.

You and others keep banging on about last seasons team so I provided you the list…..

Muric, Zaroury, Benson, Al Dakhil, Brownhill just got back in and done well.
They should all have started the first few games that's my point you can't replace them all how VK did then expect a positive outcome he upset the squad and it's showing. Where was the fight 2nd half yesterday?
It was the first time I'd watched and thought you know what there not fighting for him or don't believe his team talks anymore.
As for losing to Brighton Sheff Utd drew there, are you telling me we can only take points off Luton and Sheff Utd this season? The rest have been there longer than us...
Now who's the negative one me for pointing out the obvious after 12 defeats in 15 or you for saying we'll lose every game except four?

[ElectroClaret]

Hate to break it to you but we will likely lose at Brighton too, they’ve been at this level longer, spent considerably more and have better players, they’re a better team than us.

Who mentioned Brighton ?
What are you burbling on about?

[elwaclaret]

There are two tactics being employed regularly against us to great effect.

A speedy press when we play out and/or overloading our zonal marking at dead ball situations (when they man mark our best defenders to prevent them defending their zones, and obstructing Trafford) while the initial ball in is often cleared we are out of position when the second ball comes back into the box… creating the space for overloading players.

West Ham like others blocked the defensive screen, Wolves the quick hard press. Sadly both are producing goals against us on a regular basis… which is why it seriously needs addressing if we are going to enjoy the upturn in results many of us still hope for, and believe remains more than possible.

[dsr]

Sheff United got a draw there.

And if Brighton get themselves down to 10 men and score a goal for us, so will we.

[gandhisflipflop]

Hate to break it to you but we will likely lose at Brighton too, they’ve been at this level longer, spent considerably more and have better players, they’re a better team than us.

They haven’t been at this level longer.

[CoolClaret]

Hate to break it to you but we will likely lose at Brighton too, they’ve been at this level longer, spent considerably more and have better players, they’re a better team than us.

Shall we just not bother then?! Because every time we will come up every team bar the two we’ve come up with are likely to have been at that level longer/spent more than us/have considerably better players.

The logic from those the ardent VK supporters is a bit off.

We spent a good whack, and are short in some areas and overloaded in others - anyone with a brain could see that was the case before a ball was kicked and that’s on him.

Some big signings haven’t improved us and no matter what stuff about resale value is brought up, they funds could have been better allocated elsewhere.

If VK isn’t able to show that he can get results against teams that have more resource/more established in the PL then I cannot see how he is the right man for us if we ever want to spend more than one season in the PL because every single year we will need to get a number of results as the ‘underdog’.

So far, sadly, he hasn’t shown that he can.

[Raconteur]

Muric, Zaroury, Benson, Al Dakhil, Brownhill just got back in and done well.

You mention Al Dakhil but he started in every game up to and including Bournemouth. Thats 10 games. Benson started against Villa and did nothing.

[kenyon6923]

Maybe SD was so much cleverer than what we gave him credit for - he "never attempted" to sign players that could change our style around and is that because he knew we never had the money to buy the quality required in EVERY position to properly change the style AND obviously get the results required to survive in the league.
That goal last night would not have happened with Pope / Mee and Tarks - SD made us hard to beat but not very dangerous/frightening at the other end where as apart from Sheff Utd on saturday we seem easy to score against and promising but not prolific at the other end - as per last night Wolves first clean sheet of the season !!!!!!