Who are we catching?

[Newcastleclaret93]

I think Toney is going to a big club; my moneys on United, but likely Chelsea/Arsenal to stay in London.

Tbf Brentford have about 9 players out injured (similar to Brighton)

When they are back they will pull clear.

[Cooclaret]

First time in the Premier League that at Christmas time, I’m convinced we won’t beat the drop. And I’m OK with that, as long as we compete as well as we can in games.

I think Vinny, the players and Alan Pace know this as well.

Genuinely curious: why are you okay with this?

[Hipper]

From what I've seen there is nothing to suggest that we have the capability to get the 'eight or nine wins' that some say we need.

I wouldn't say I was OK with it but I find myself resigned to it.

As I wrote somewhere before, how can anyone think you can use a group of mostly no or limited Premier League experience and expect to stay up. It would be absolutely astonishing if we did that.

[Cooclaret]

From what I've seen there is nothing to suggest that we have the capability to get the 'eight or nine wins' that some say we need.

I wouldn't say I was OK with it but I find myself resigned to it.

As I wrote somewhere before, how can anyone think you can use a group of mostly no or limited Premier League experience and expect to stay up. It would be absolutely astonishing if we did that.

It’s either horribly naive, or jarringly arrogant.

[Goliath]

They can cause issues, but have a tendency to overplay on occasion too. Also have a rick in them - poor challenge by Eze that lead to Chelsea's pen. I'm not convinced Hodgson is the right man either. I think they'll stay up, but I don't think it'll be comfortable.

I see they won comfortably today with 2 goals from Olise and 1 from Eze, not a chance in hell they go down

[Cooclaret]

How many more turgid performances can we endure?

[Jakubclaret]

I see they won comfortably today with 2 goals from Olise and 1 from Eze, not a chance in hell they go down

It was far from comfortable they was lucky to a certain degree wissa missed a sitter & maupay hit the bar but wasn't their day. I agree they won't go down as 3 poorer sides & they have a reasonable cushion.

[boatshed bill]

How many more turgid performances can we endure?

Turgid? I'm not sure about that.

[HahaYeah]

After the game as 'Hi ho silver lining' was playing I thought - yes that's very apt, we are definately not out of this competition yet.

[ElectroClaret]

Some of our defending today left a lot to be desired, but the performance certainly
wasn't "turgid".

[Hedontplayforyou]

As per the topic - we aren’t catching anybody now.

Unfortunately it looks like the plan for a championship return will be in motion .

The performances have been much better recently and we deserved much better from the Villa game today, but we’ve left ourselves too much to do now .

[Boss Hogg]

How many more turgid performances can we endure?

Think we’ll play well in individual matches in isolation but we will lose most of them. Think this could be one of our worst ever seasons in terms of points totals. I expect more records to be broken.

[Jakubclaret]

At the moment we couldn't catch a cold it's difficult to look past the bottom 3 as things currently stand.

[Big Vinny K]

How many more turgid performances can we endure?

Is that a serious comment ?
We played excellent today. Far better than when we played them at home.
We are talking about a team at the top of the league and we caused them lots of problems.
It was a great game to watch and the one thing VK got wrong (again) was his substitutions.

[ClaretPete001]

Forest lose next weekend against Man Utd home and then Brentford away 0-2. We lose to Villa away 0-1 and beat Luton at home 2-0.

We then beat Forest 2-0 on the final day. All other games are identical. We stay up by 1 goal.

Are we really saying that is so implausible we throw in the towel? The lack of fighting spirit on here amazes me at times, and, yes, that is what the team have been showing, fighting spirit, not a lack of it.

This post reminds me of a Tommy Cooper gag: how do we stay up? - Just like that...!

You need to re-calibrate Forest just beat Man Utd..

[bfcjg]

All we can hope for is a catastrophic loss in form from perhaps Brentford and hope we can capitalise.

[dougcollins]

How many more turgid performances can we endure?

Good grief.

I spoke with Villa fans after the game who couldn't believe the difference from when we played them at home.

I think you need to research your adjectives.

[boatshed bill]

Nottingham Forest and Luton, plus any other team whose 2nd half of the season is anything like as bad as our 1st half.

[123EasyasBFC]

It’s a simple case of trying to convince the to stay for at least one season in the championship now, very tough ask to catch anyone now, even if we do pull 2 positive results in a row (which we are yet to do) it still only takes us up one place in the table

[Swizzlestick]

I see they won comfortably today with 2 goals from Olise and 1 from Eze, not a chance in hell they go down

Yeah decent win with the caveat that it was Brentford home, who themselves are in free fall. As the song goes, It Ain’t Over Til It’s Over

[Cooclaret]

Is that a serious comment ?
We played excellent today. Far better than when we played them at home.
We are talking about a team at the top of the league and we caused them lots of problems.
It was a great game to watch and the one thing VK got wrong (again) was his substitutions.

Both full backs were awful.

Subs were awful.

We’re soft.

[taio]

Both full backs were awful.

Subs were awful.

We’re soft.

Baffling suggesting today's performance was turgid unless you didn't even watch it.

[Cooclaret]

Baffling suggesting today's performance was turgid unless you didn't even watch it.

Three out of the back four are not good enough on and off the ball.

Kompany isn’t a Premier league manger (yet).

[Big Vinny K]

Absolutely clueless

[Newcastleclaret93]

Absolutely clueless

Besides the offensive comment BFK what exactly do you disagree with from his last sentence?

I think it’s pretty fair.

[taio]

Three out of the back four are not good enough on and off the ball.

Kompany isn’t a Premier league manger (yet).

We have defensive weaknesses for sure and they especially showed in the first half today, but I still can't comprehend how turgid is anything other than a daft way of describing the team's performance today.

[Big Vinny K]

Besides the offensive comment BFK what exactly do you disagree with from his last sentence?

I think it’s pretty fair.

Anybody who describes our performance today as turgid either does not understand the meaning of the word or has little or no idea about football - or possibly both.

And that’s what I was referring to - not whether certain players are good enough or not. That’s a whole different debate.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Anybody who describes our performance today as turgid either does not understand the meaning of the word or has little or no idea about football - or possibly both.

And that’s what I was referring to - not whether certain players are good enough or not. That’s a whole different debate.

Fair enough I thought it was in relation to his last sentence

[boatshed bill]

Three out of the back four are not good enough on and off the ball.

Kompany isn’t a Premier league manger (yet).

I think you'll find that he actually is

[Vegas Claret]

Tbf Brentford have about 9 players out injured (similar to Brighton)

When they are back they will pull clear.

agree with this 100%

[Swizzlestick]

Yeah I keep hearing this about certain teams but it’s about the here and now. Mbuemo not back for another three months, Toney linked with Arsenal, Rico Henry out for the season.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Yeah I keep hearing this about certain teams but it’s about the here and now. Mbuemo not back for another three months, Toney linked with Arsenal, Rico Henry out for the season.

Take Henry and Mbeumo out that’s still another 6 first teamers coming back soon.

Haven’t the club indicated Toney is going knowhere in Jan?

[Cooclaret]

We have defensive weaknesses for sure and they especially showed in the first half today, but I still can't comprehend how turgid is anything other than a daft way of describing the team's performance today.

Players not marking, players not tracking runs, players out of position.

Use of subs worse than Dyche.

Perhaps turgid is the wrong word, but it’s not the new dawn people are proclaiming.

[Cooclaret]

Anybody who describes our performance today as turgid either does not understand the meaning of the word or has little or no idea about football - or possibly both.

And that’s what I was referring to - not whether certain players are good enough or not. That’s a whole different debate.

Your buddy CoolClaret will be along in a minute to join the fun, then Elizabeth.

Same old, same old without recourse.

[Cooclaret]

Anybody who describes our performance today as turgid either does not understand the meaning of the word or has little or no idea about football - or possibly both.

And that’s what I was referring to - not whether certain players are good enough or not. That’s a whole different debate.

You need to reply to the right post, then it’s not confusing.

[Swizzlestick]

Take Henry and Mbeumo out that’s still another 6 first teamers coming back soon.

Haven’t the club indicated Toney is going knowhere in Jan?

I guess they can indicate all they like, if the player wants off, he’s off. Never mind getting back up to match fitness etc. I do actually think they’ll be ok, but there’s no certainties in this league. Everton had cigar out a few weeks ago, now theyve lost three in a row and tonked off Wolves today. Their situation is unfortunate but it shows nothing’s decided.

[Cooclaret]

Anybody who describes our performance today as turgid either does not understand the meaning of the word or has little or no idea about football - or possibly both.

And that’s what I was referring to - not whether certain players are good enough or not. That’s a whole different debate.

I think the performance flattered to deceive, is that better.

We weren’t good, defensively we were a shambles. The midfield isn’t fit for purpose. There are bright sparks and moments going forward but that’s pointless if what’s behind them is awful.

Foster was very good today, Trafford was very good today and in recent weeks has been excellent.

[Big Vinny K]

Both teams defended poorly today.
Both our goals were shocking defending and marking from
Villa. The high line their defence played was very risky and they were lucky to not concede more.

We of course struggled against Villa when they attacked us. But look at the quality of their forwards and midfield. A couple of weeks ago Bailey and Watkins played the best club side in the world off the park.

If Villa are going to totally dominate a defence that cost nearly £300m (they created more chances against City than they did against us today) is it a big surprise that they are going to cause a team with a full back that cost half a million a centre back that cost £2m etc etc ?

[Jakubclaret]

Both teams defended poorly today.
Both our goals were shocking defending and marking from
Villa. The high line their defence played was very risky and they were lucky to not concede more.

We of course struggled against Villa when they attacked us. But look at the quality of their forwards and midfield. A couple of weeks ago Bailey and Watkins played the best club side in the world off the park.

If Villa are going to totally dominate a defence that cost nearly £300m (they created more chances against City than they did against us today) is it a big surprise that they are going to cause a team with a full back that cost half a million a centre back that cost £2m etc etc ?

It doesn’t always work out that way, Sheffield United managed to leave with a point it can be done.

[Big Vinny K]

It doesn’t always work out that way, Sheffield United managed to leave with a point it can be done.

What doesn’t always work out that way ?

[Jakubclaret]

What doesn’t always work out that way ?

The financial numbers determining results. It’s not Barcelona vs Bognor Regis.

[Big Vinny K]

The financial numbers determining results. It’s not Barcelona vs Bognor Regis.

Ok thanks for your insightful wisdom yet again

[ClaretPete001]

Both teams defended poorly today.
Both our goals were shocking defending and marking from
Villa. The high line their defence played was very risky and they were lucky to not concede more.

We of course struggled against Villa when they attacked us. But look at the quality of their forwards and midfield. A couple of weeks ago Bailey and Watkins played the best club side in the world off the park.

If Villa are going to totally dominate a defence that cost nearly £300m (they created more chances against City than they did against us today) is it a big surprise that they are going to cause a team with a full back that cost half a million a centre back that cost £2m etc etc ?

Our defending was appalling today but their high line became a mystery the more Foster undid it.

The goals didn't come about because of the quality of their play but because we left players unmarked in the box. On the first goal I count 8 Burnley players not making anyone in the box.

I mean if anyone enjoys the Horror genre - just freeze frame that first goal prior to it going into the back of the net.

[Big Vinny K]

Our defending was appalling today but their high line became a mystery the more Foster undid it.

The goals didn't come about because of the quality of their play but because we left players unmarked in the box. On the first goal I count 8 Burnley players not making anyone in the box.

I mean if anyone enjoys the Horror genre - just freeze frame that first goal prior to it going into the back of the net.

First goal was very good work from Watkins and then a great finish from Bailey which is similar to how he’s been scoring for the last month.
For our first goal they had 7 or 8 defenders in the box too and still left 2 of our defenders free at the back post.

Villa’s second goal where Watkins makes that run is something that you see time and time again in the last couple of years. He has more assists than any other player in the league this season.

I’m not saying we defended well - of course we didn’t. But we are playing against some very very good players and a team that is very attacking and scoring for fun.
Villa defended poorly too today but just like they exploited our weaknesses I think we were also tactically much better against them today than we were earlier in the season.

[Bin Ont Turf]

First goal was very good work from Watkins and then a great finish from Bailey which is similar to how he’s been scoring for the last month.

The ball rolled right across our box around 12 to 15 yards out.

It was shite defending.

[Big Vinny K]

The ball rolled right across our box around 12 to 15 yards out.

It was shite defending.

Watkins passed it across the box - just like we crossed it across the box for our first goal.
Our full back allowed him to go that way because he didn’t want him to get to the byline. Bailey still had a lot to do.

Martin Keown is analysing the goal now and it’s all about how good Watkins is for both the goals.

[Wokingclaret]

No one

[alwaysaclaret]

Nottingham Forest and Luton, plus any other team whose 2nd half of the season is anything like as bad as our 1st half.

Not a cat in hells chance, both want it far more than us, and the rest no chance.

[ClaretPete001]

First goal was very good work from Watkins and then a great finish from Bailey which is similar to how he’s been scoring for the last month.
For our first goal they had 7 or 8 defenders in the box too and still left 2 of our defenders free at the back post.

Villa’s second goal where Watkins makes that run is something that you see time and time again in the last couple of years. He has more assists than any other player in the league this season.

I’m not saying we defended well - of course we didn’t. But we are playing against some very very good players and a team that is very attacking and scoring for fun.
Villa defended poorly too today but just like they exploited our weaknesses I think we were also tactically much better against them today than we were earlier in the season.

Maybe so, we became tactically better when VK changed to a double pivot and a 4-4-2 and played established PL players like Taylor and Brownhill. It isn't because we have improved as a tactical side.

The side back in August was:

Trafford
Roberts
Al Dakhil
O'Shea
Delcroix
Manuel
Cullen
Berge
Koleosho
Amdouni

..and we were laying an odd 4-3-3 type formation with Brownhill on the bench.

VK then took off Berge for Ramsey...! So, for the last twenty minutes we played one of the best teams in the country with a midfield two of Ramsay and Cullen.

Any improvement is relative.

I don't follow Villa much but I do believe they have had a dip in form because they are missing Pau, Tielemans and Kamara - big players for them.

And I agree both sides defended badly. I suppose whether that was to do with the others teams good play or just poor defending is a matter of opinion.

[123EasyasBFC]

It’s a real shame the performances of us in games and the officials in other games have warranted more points because if we had 4 or 5 more points which we deserve then the relegation battle would be really interesting with ourselves Luton Everton Brentford palace forest and Fulham