Arijanet Muric

[It Is What It Is]

Can someone do one of them “Vote” posts you see….you know either vote for Trafford or Vote for Muric.
Be interesting to see final result after a week.

[123EasyasBFC]

Decent strawman. What was our side then? Kulusevski, Richarlison, Porro, Udogie, Vicario all been first team regulars and are good players in there own right - not to mention it was away.

Could have easily won that and Spurs want silverware, they're going for a Cup.

Anything slightly positive about our performances and it’s always turned to well the other team played rubbish, they rested players, what team outside of the top 6 players a team in the top 6 and doesn’t rely on them potentially having an off day.
Dyche used to say it regularly, to beat the big boys, you have to be at it and they need to be off it

[Carlos the Great]

A lot of the saves Trafford makes are a result of being constantly under pressure which I think is the outcome of how the defence and team play while he is in nets .. we won the championship with Muric and strolled that division so he must have had some consistency .: and before anyone chips in that we aren’t in the championship now /. we aren’t in division 1 either where Trafford is used to playing

[CoolClaret]

Here's the real question

Would we be on more than 11 points IF the combined fees that went on Traff, Trésor and Ramsey(who are good players in their own right) around the 50 mill mark were instead allocated to you know what (most) thought were the obvious needs in fullback(s), DM, Striker...

It's a resounding YES for me.

Collective > Individuals. Think of the team first (not who will bring the most money after development) and the rest will fall into place.

[deanothedino]

Decent strawman. What was our side then? Kulusevski, Richarlison, Porro, Udogie, Vicario all been first team regulars and are good players in there own right - not to mention it was away.

Could have easily won that and Spurs want silverware, they're going for a Cup.

5? Short of being our normal XI? A few in positions that have been changeable for most of the season.

We could have won that, Spurs were poor and there for the taking but unfortunately Zeki can’t hit a barn door so we didn’t take our best chance.

[deanothedino]

A lot of the saves Trafford makes are a result of being constantly under pressure which I think is the outcome of how the defence and team play while he is in nets .. we won the championship with Muric and strolled that division so he must have had some consistency .: and before anyone chips in that we aren’t in the championship now /. we aren’t in division 1 either where Trafford is used to playing

People need to stop comparing to when we were in the Championship. Cullen was player of the season in that league and I’d like to think no one is deluded enough to still think he’s PL quality.

[deanothedino]

Here's the real question

Would we be on more than 11 points IF the combined fees that went on Traff, Trésor and Ramsey(who are good players in their own right) around the 50 mill mark were instead allocated to you know what (most) thought were the obvious needs in fullback(s), DM, Striker...

It's a resounding YES for me.

Collective > Individuals. Think of the team first (not who will bring the most money after development) and the rest will fall into place.

Now we’re on the same page!

I think Trafford is the better keeper but I also think it’s a signing you make last after we bought 2 new full backs, a central midfielder and a striker as a minimum. Arguably a CB too, I’d have liked to see THB back with Beyer.

[123EasyasBFC]

People need to stop comparing to when we were in the Championship. Cullen was player of the season in that league and I’d like to think no one is deluded enough to still think he’s PL quality.

People need to stop comparing what we did in the championship, you just tried to compare things muric did last season?

[deanothedino]

People need to stop comparing what we did in the championship, you just tried to compare things muric did last season?

I think comparing mistakes people made a lower level is a bit different to saying the positives at that level should have carried over to harder competition.

[123EasyasBFC]

I think comparing mistakes people made a lower level is a bit different to saying the positives at that level should have carried over to harder competition.

Why? Foster wasn’t great in the championship but has arguably been our most important player this season, muric could have also made the step and and improved further given the chance, he also could of done a Cullen who right now doesn’t look up to the level (although he had a good game last night) the point is muric is the only player bare benson who hasn’t been given a chance

[deanothedino]

Why? Foster wasn’t great in the championship but has arguably been our most important player this season, muric could have also made the step and and improved further given the chance, he also could of done a Cullen who right now doesn’t look up to the level (although he had a good game last night) the point is muric is the only player bare benson who hasn’t been given a chance

I don’t disagree he wasn’t given a chance, and that comes back to what I’ve said in reply to CoolClarets last post. I think Trafford is a better keeper but I wouldn’t have rushed to do that business when we clearly needed two new fullbacks and a defensive midfielder as a minimum (even if you were giving Cullen a chance it’s clear VK thinks Cork can’t do the job anymore)

[Westleigh]

Can someone do one of them “Vote” posts you see….you know either vote for Trafford or Vote for Muric.
Be interesting to see final result after a week.

Unfortunately if you prefer Trafford you looking for every little mistake that Muric makes and if the prefer Muric then your doing the same to Trafford ,and as we tend to be the underdog in most games it becomes nearly impossible for either of them to have a faultless game.

[Rileybobs]

Muric should not have been dropped. It was his shirt to lose and Trafford should have been doing the challenging for it. Some think it doesn’t matter either way - I think it very much has mattered and we’ve sat through a lot of staid, lifeless football because of it. A big error - not the only one, by any stretch, but a big one.

But he did lose the shirt. Players train every day to earn their place in the team.

[deanothedino]

Anything slightly positive about our performances and it’s always turned to well the other team played rubbish, they rested players, what team outside of the top 6 players a team in the top 6 and doesn’t rely on them potentially having an off day.
Dyche used to say it regularly, to beat the big boys, you have to be at it and they need to be off it

And we weren’t at it, despite them being off it. Hard truth.

[ecc]

He certainly has a presence.

He's so used to wanting to get his team moving that he gets frustrated and is liable to choose a bad option. Last season was easy for him from that point of view. I honestly think he'd fit in with a better PL team than us where his players had more time on the ball.

[Rileybobs]

Muric generally was good last night. He zipped the ball around well and made some decent saves. He also collected everything in the air comfortably, although this flatters to deceive a little as they were all regulation catches under no pressure.

His throw out leading to the goal was a poor decision although Amdouni should have done better. However, and I’m absolutely expecting pelters for this, I think he should have saved the strike. To not even make an effort to go for it considering his proximity to it and the time he had to react was very poor. Considering how well Trafford seems to cover the width of his goal I would be very confident that he’d have saved it. And I think that goal pretty much summed up in a nutshell why one keeper is favoured over the other by VK.

[taio]

Muric generally was good last night. He zipped the ball around well and made some decent saves. He also collected everything in the air comfortably, although this flatters to deceive a little as they were all regulation catches under no pressure.

His throw out leading to the goal was a poor decision although Amdouni should have done better. However, and I’m absolutely expecting pelters for this, I think he should have saved the strike. To not even make an effort to go for it considering his proximity to it and the time he had to react was very poor. Considering how well Trafford seems to cover the width of his goal I would be very confident that he’d have saved it. And I think that goal pretty much summed up in a nutshell why one keeper is favoured over the other by VK.

No way Trafford would've saved it.

[Colburn_Claret]

Muric for me.
Trafford has improved a lot lately, and kept us in games, but it's Murics influence in attack that gets him the nod, and his command of the box.

[Rileybobs]

No way Trafford would've saved it.

I think he would.

[deanothedino]

Muric for me.
Trafford has improved a lot lately, and kept us in games, but it's Murics influence in attack that gets him the nod, and his command of the box.

The only way we score more goals with Muric in the side is if we put him upfront as I suspect he can finish better than some of our attacking players

[taio]

I think he would.

I think few keepers if any save that when it has been hit so hard, from that angle and into the side of the goal.

[Nori1958]

No way Trafford would've saved it.

He wouldn't have.... But then again he wouldnt have had to, because he would not have got rid of the ball the way Muric did

[taio]

He wouldn't have.... But then again he wouldnt have had to, because he would not have got rid of the ball the way Muric did

I agree Muric was partially to blame, but not for not saving the shot

[Nori1958]

I agree Muric was partially to blame, but not for not saving the shot

I don't think anyone is stopping it

[Rileybobs]

I think few keepers if any save that when it has been hit so hard, from that angle and into the side of the goal.

IMG_3450.jpeg (875.77 KiB) Viewed 4891 times

We’ll have to agree to disagree. But I don’t think a keeper should be conceding from that range and angle to his right hand side from a right footed shot when positioned where he is. His reactions to the shot were very poor, he didn’t even flinch. Not often you see a keeper at the top level completely rooted to the spot.

[taio]

IMG_3450.jpeg

We’ll have to agree to disagree. But I don’t think a keeper should be conceding from that range and angle to his right hand side from a right footed shot when positioned where he is. His reactions to the shot were very poor, he didn’t even flinch. Not often you see a keeper at the top level completely rooted to the spot.

What that photo obviously doesn't show is the pace of the shot so doesnt really help and, in any case, I remember the goal, circumstances and positions very well. I agree Muric should've made an attempt, but even if he had he wouldn't have saved it, nor would Trafford in my view.

[RVclaret]

IMG_3450.jpeg

We’ll have to agree to disagree. But I don’t think a keeper should be conceding from that range and angle to his right hand side from a right footed shot when positioned where he is. His reactions to the shot were very poor, he didn’t even flinch. Not often you see a keeper at the top level completely rooted to the spot.

Interesting point this. He also didn’t move for Tarkowski’s goal at Everton earlier this season which, at the time, I found odd.

[Belgianclaret]

No doubt we have two capable keepers, and Muric is certainly one if you ask me.

The agility of Trafford might be slightly better, but the presence of Muric in his own box has improved a lot and for me he is the better goalie in that area.

Muric also made a very good save early on, and I'm sure neither could do anything to prevent that goal.

[ecc]

That ball was moving wicked. Really not sure many keepers could have touched it let alone save it.

[daveisaclaret]

I posted earlier in the season that it was stupid to say any Burnley fan wanted Trafford to fail. Looking at some of the reactions to Muric's performance I have to say I was wrong and plenty of people on here are very capable of wanting a goalie to fail.

[Rileybobs]

What that photo obviously doesn't show is the pace of the shot so doesnt really help and, in any case, I remember the goal, circumstances and positions very well. I agree Muric should've made an attempt, but even if he had he wouldn't have saved it, nor would Trafford in my view.

Well I think it does help to show Muric’s relative proximity to where the ball ends up and the distance that the ball is struck from. It was hit incredibly well and accurately but Muric had time to react and make a short dive to his right to stop it. It would have required a good save but it certainly wasn’t an unstoppable shot considering how close the keeper is to it and the height at which the ball hits the net.

[Anthonini]

No doubt we have two capable keepers, and Muric is certainly one if you ask me.

The agility of Trafford might be slightly better, but the presence of Muric in his own box has improved a lot and for me he is the better goalie in that area.

Muric also made a very good save early on, and I'm sure neither could do anything to prevent that goal.

Not make that throw would have prevented it. We should be calm and relaxed when it's 0-0 vs Tottenham. Let them rush things and make daft mistakes.

[matttheclaret]

IMG_3450.jpeg

We’ll have to agree to disagree. But I don’t think a keeper should be conceding from that range and angle to his right hand side from a right footed shot when positioned where he is. His reactions to the shot were very poor, he didn’t even flinch. Not often you see a keeper at the top level completely rooted to the spot.

Always like to see a keeper at least put a dive in. Real bug bearer of mine seeing a goalkeeper watch the ball go into the net without moving.

I'm not sure he sees this one until late though, think the picture you have used shows Cullen obscuring the ball from his vision. Very good strike, but again I'd still like to have seen him make more of an effort to keep it out

[123EasyasBFC]

Surely nobody actually thinks muric should save that goal last night

[Rileybobs]

Always like to see a keeper at least put a dive in. Real bug bearer of mine seeing a goalkeeper watch the ball go into the net without moving.

I'm not sure he sees this one until late though, think the picture you have used shows Cullen obscuring the ball from his vision. Very good strike, but again I'd still like to have seen him make more of an effort to keep it out

Fair point re his vision potentially being blocked. Could explain the lack of reaction.

[Goliath]

What the photo doesnt show is the dip, thats why he didnt dive. It reminded me of that famous Essien strike agsinst Arsenal, absolutely unstoppable

[ksrclaret]

It’s the out to in trajectory of the strike that made it an impossible one to save for any goalkeeper.

Come on now.

[Belgianclaret]

Not make that throw would have prevented it. We should be calm and relaxed when it's 0-0 vs Tottenham. Let them rush things and make daft mistakes.

Yeah, but such viewpoint is subject to so many what-ifs.

What if Amdouny - who attempted to play the ball between the legs - actually controls the ball better or even manages to pass him?

[IanMcL]

Muric, who I have always rated as a sweeper, has been much improved as a goalkeeper, from rail end of last season and his occasional appearances this season.

We are far more dynamic and less fragile, with Muric.

[taio]

Well I think it does help to show Muric’s relative proximity to where the ball ends up and the distance that the ball is struck from. It was hit incredibly well and accurately but Muric had time to react and make a short dive to his right to stop it. It would have required a good save but it certainly wasn’t an unstoppable shot considering how close the keeper is to it and the height at which the ball hits the net.

I'm not sure it helps that much, really. As well as the speed and accuracy on the ball, there was plenty of dip and movement on the ball too. I'm not saying it was unstoppable, I just think very few keepers would've stopped it, including Trafford. Fair enough if you are very confident Trafford would have.

[warksclaret]

Dont think anyone is blaming Muric for not stopping that super strike, but have to disagree with the comment that NO goalkeeper would have stopped. We are blessed with some of the world's finest keepers inn the PL, and almost every week see comparable stops from the likes of Allison, Ederson, De Gea when he was in his prime, Martinez, Nick Pope . Ramsdale, Raya and a few more. What I am pretty certain about though is that just about all of these keepers, in my opinion would have moved and attempted to save it. Muric just appeared static-maybe a little shell shocked that his throw to Amdouini was quickly and clinically recycled by Spurs followed by a very hard hit shot-but it was at some distance and he was in a good position

[THEWELLERNUT70]

If we scored from that pass it would have been a great pass from muric

Some on here would have said it was genius by Amdouni after a poor pass from Muric

They were BOTH culpable for the goal last night, there's really no debate

[CoolClaret]

IMG_3450.jpeg

We’ll have to agree to disagree. But I don’t think a keeper should be conceding from that range and angle to his right hand side from a right footed shot when positioned where he is. His reactions to the shot were very poor, he didn’t even flinch. Not often you see a keeper at the top level completely rooted to the spot.

Nice still - doesn't show the swerve of the ball or the pace like.. No comment on some of the other diving saves he made last night though?

Crikey, could make regulation saves look a bit more dramatic I suppose, might garner a bit more praise then.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Surely nobody actually thinks muric should save that goal last night

I was surprised he didn’t attempt to at least save it.

I just assumed he didn’t have site of the ball

[bumba]

Nice still - doesn't show the swerve of the ball or the pace like.. No comment on some of the other diving saves he made last night though?

Crikey, could make regulation saves look a bit more dramatic I suppose, might garner a bit more praise then.

Strange that it's the same ones criticising Muric that never took to him last season and big Trafford up to be way better than he is. Muric should save everything yet every goal Trafford concedes is a worldie and every save he makes is a worldie despite 99% of them being bog standard saves.
Muric is currently better than Trafford as an all round goalkeeper it's very easy to see

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I was surprised he didn’t attempt to at least save it.

I just assumed he didn’t have site of the ball

Even if he’d dived he wasn’t stopping it. Maybe he should have done to make himself look better.

[Rileybobs]

Nice still - doesn't show the swerve of the ball or the pace like.. No comment on some of the other diving saves he made last night though?

Crikey, could make regulation saves look a bit more dramatic I suppose, might garner a bit more praise then.

I commented on his other saves.

Of course a still doesn’t show the swerve or dip of the ball. I can’t post a video of the goal so a photo was the best way to illustrate my point. And of course the swerve and dip of the ball is completely irrelevant if the goalkeeper is stood still and makes no attempt to make a save.

As I posted above, Muric on the whole was good last night, but in my opinion he was poor in the build up to the goal and he was poor at stopping or at least attempting to stop the goal. And ultimately games are decided on these moments and not the other 95% of play.

[CoolClaret]

Sorry lads just have to clear this up - I mean at least be objective.

Have criticisms about maybe not playing to the scenario properly - fair enough but suggesting that a keeper saves this (yep I'll post a still as well) is just ludcirous

[Rileybobs]

Strange that it's the same ones criticising Muric that never took to him last season and big Trafford up to be way better than he is. Muric should save everything yet every goal Trafford concedes is a worldie and every save he makes is a worldie despite 99% of them being bog standard saves.
Muric is currently better than Trafford as an all round goalkeeper it's very easy to see

As CoolClaret was responding to me I can only assume your comments also relate to me. In which case you’re wrong. I didn’t ’never take to Muric’ last season, I just didn’t, and don’t think he has the raw goalkeeping attributes to be a successful Premier League goalkeeper. I don’t think Muric should save everything and I don’t claim that every save Trafford makes is a worldie.

I’ve made what I would consider to be well reasoned points about Trafford who also has significant weaknesses to his game. I’ve argued that both of our keepers are not at the level required, although we have seen improvement from Trafford since then with a string of good performances.

Feel free to make things up, but it doesn’t really strengthen your case.

[bumba]

As CoolClaret was responding to me I can only assume your comments also relate to me. In which case you’re wrong. I didn’t ’never take to Muric’ last season, I just didn’t, and don’t think he has the raw goalkeeping attributes to be a successful Premier League goalkeeper. I don’t think Muric should save everything and I don’t claim that every save Trafford makes is a worldie.

I’ve made what I would consider to be well reasoned points about Trafford who also has significant weaknesses to his game. I’ve argued that both of our keepers are not at the level required, although we have seen improvement from Trafford since then with a string of good performances.

Feel free to make things up, but it doesn’t really strengthen your case.

Didn't even read what you'd wrote so no it wasn't aimed at you, was a general comment relating to a few posters on the board.
So no I'm not wrong and I'm not making anything up, you've just made something up.