ALK CAPITAL ANNOUNCES STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIP WITH DUNDEE FC

[forzagranata]

There are a few really obvious flaws with that argument.

[TPClaret]

Nobody was moaning about the owners last season when we were top of the league winning the Championship

[StayingDown4Ever]

It's scary that someone who is so vocal in his support for these guys can be so wrong about such an important thing to be honest.

It is until you see the username of the person who posted it.

[Chester Perry]

Keyes Capital have a website that makes EMA Equity Partners look good
http://www.keyescap.com/

totally inspiring

[roperclaret]

The original point made by the poster was suggesting things could go horribly wrong because of the debt
Without going into forensic detail I would suggest the players value outweighs the debt, should, in some strange circumstances, somebody comes calling for all the money immediately

But then we would have no players

[Nori1958]

But then we would have no players

Only if you sold all the players, which obviously you wouldn't have to...not that it will ever get to that stage, just making a point to the original doomsday scenario

[Nori1958]

It is until you see the username of the person who posted it.

That's the first one on the bingo card

[forzagranata]

It is possible to lose money on player trading as well.

[Enola Gay]

Peak UTC, this.

Starts off with a fairly non-descript announcement of something that'll probably turn out to be something-and-nothing. Swiftly moves onto an airing of the general discontent with the owners, with a reheated side order of blaming Dyche/Garlick for the signings in the last few pre-takeover seasons. All liberally garnished with familiar complaints about a perceived lack of communications from the board, all of which seem in essence to boil down to "well, he's not talking to me/he's not communicating the way I want" as if that somehow negates completely what communication there is.

Do I feel particularly valued by the current board? No, not really.
Did I feel particularly valued by the last board? Again, no.

Then again, why should I? For all the romantic stuff some fans (and I used to be one of them) tell themselves about being the true owners/guardians of the club, the bottom line for me is that we are consumers of a product and I've long since learned to tailor my expectations accordingly. My season ticket entitles me to entry to 19/23 home games a season; that's as far as I feel the need to buy into football at this stage of my life. Cynical perhaps, but you wouldn't believe how much sleep I don't lose or time I don't spend worrying about whither football.

[Paul Waine]

Keyes Capital have a website that makes EMA Equity Partners look good
http://www.keyescap.com/

totally inspiring

Hi aggi, Hi CP, private family investment entity, website obviously designed to say "this is who we are..." But, not looking to seek any business through the website and definitely not looking for any "retail investors." What would you want to be "inspired by?"

Of course, there's nothing to prevent the Keyes family becoming a limited partner in VSL (US) if that's what they wish. As with all limited partners we'd only know about it if they announced themselves as a minority investor in "Burnley Football Club."

For avoidance of doubt, I'm not suggesting that Keyes family have put money into VSL and, therefore, are a minority investor in BFC.

UTC

[CoolClaret]

Peak UTC, this.

Starts off with a fairly non-descript announcement of something that'll probably turn out to be something-and-nothing. Swiftly moves onto an airing of the general discontent with the owners, with a reheated side order of blaming Dyche/Garlick for the signings in the last few pre-takeover seasons. All liberally garnished with familiar complaints about a perceived lack of communications from the board, all of which seem in essence to boil down to "well, he's not talking to me/he's not communicating the way I want" as if that somehow negates completely what communication there is.

Do I feel particularly valued by the current board? No, not really.
Did I feel particularly valued by the last board? Again, no.

Then again, why should I? For all the romantic stuff some fans (and I used to be one of them) tell themselves about being the true owners/guardians of the club, the bottom line for me is that we are consumers of a product and I've long since learned to tailor my expectations accordingly. My season ticket entitles me to entry to 19/23 home games a season; that's as far as I feel the need to buy into football at this stage of my life. Cynical perhaps, but you wouldn't believe how much sleep I don't lose or time I don't spend worrying about whither football.

Whilst true, and I do agree - following this to it's logical extreme is a bit bleak we may as well just lay down and rot/not attribute any intrinsic meaning to anything - just another business transaction afterall!

We want passion, don't we? Or do we just want to be detached consumers?

Gives people some meaning and identity, even if it's a bit delusional. Nothing wrong with that, imo.

[Enola Gay]

Whilst true, and I do agree - following this to it's logical extreme is a bit bleak we may as well just lay down and rot/not attribute any intrinsic meaning to anything - just another business transaction afterall!

We want passion, don't we? Or do we just want to be detached consumers?

Gives people some meaning and identity, even if it's a bit delusional. Nothing wrong with that, imo.

I didn't say detached consumers, and lying down and rotting is an extreme but it's not a logical one.

I'm as excited as anyone else on here in the hours before a game, I have my phone ready to check the team news a few minutes before 2 o'clock to make sure I've got it as quickly as possible, I want us to win as passionately as anyone else once the whistle goes. Losing doesn't ruin my whole weekend the way it used to, but it still makes that first post-match pint taste a lot less sweet.

I think too many people take their investment in the club to a degree that verges on the unhealthy. We can be as loyal as we like to the shirt, those players, that badge, all the little bits that together make up everyone's individual idea of what Burnley Football Club is... but the shirt will change next season no matter how many people thought the old one was the best we've ever had. The players will be moved on as soon as they're deemed to be less valuable no matter how many fans think they should have had more minutes, and even the badge will change if the board think another will make more money no matter how many fans have the old one tattooed over their heart.

And to be honest, it was probably forever thus. I can't speak for other clubs but I've never felt any one regime at Burnley valued me any more than any other one. 'Our Town Our Turf' and all the other slogans designed to foster an emotional connection... can't say any of them had any real effect on how I felt/feel about the club. That gets determined almost exclusively by what happens on that big green bit at the Turf and the benches next to it.

Cynical? Maybe. The word I'd use though is 'perspective'. Some may want/need more than that, they may need to feel like a 'guardian/true owner' to make their connection complete. Which is absolutely fine, but I don't see that kind of loyalty being rewarded very often though and that to me seems, again, unhealthy. It's better for me at least to keep my connection to the club a matchday thing, while being fully aware that wouldn't work for others. You buy in as far as you want/need to.

[CoolClaret]

I didn't say detached consumers, and lying down and rotting is an extreme but it's not a logical one.

I'm as excited as anyone else on here in the hours before a game, I have my phone ready to check the team news a few minutes before 2 o'clock to make sure I've got it as quickly as possible, I want us to win as passionately as anyone else once the whistle goes. Losing doesn't ruin my whole weekend the way it used to, but it still makes that first post-match pint taste a lot less sweet.

I think too many people take their investment in the club to a degree that verges on the unhealthy. We can be as loyal as we like to the shirt, those players, that badge, all the little bits that together make up everyone's individual idea of what Burnley Football Club is... but the shirt will change next season no matter how many people thought the old one was the best we've ever had. The players will be moved on as soon as they're deemed to be less valuable no matter how many fans think they should have had more minutes, and even the badge will change if the board think another will make more money no matter how many fans have the old one tattooed over their heart.

And to be honest, it was probably forever thus. I can't speak for other clubs but I've never felt any one regime at Burnley valued me any more than any other one. 'Our Town Our Turf' and all the other slogans designed to foster an emotional connection... can't say any of them had any real effect on how I felt/feel about the club. That gets determined almost exclusively by what happens on that big green bit at the Turf and the benches next to it.

Cynical? Maybe. The word I'd use though is 'perspective'. Some may want/need more than that, they may need to feel like a 'guardian/true owner' to make their connection complete. Which is absolutely fine, but I don't see that kind of loyalty being rewarded very often though and that to me seems, again, unhealthy. It's better for me at least to keep my connection to the club a matchday thing, while being fully aware that wouldn't work for others. You buy in as far as you want/need to.

(Just FYI I said 'lay down and rot' as it was a silly meme from a few years back, just to make my self laugh a bit... sad I know)

I don't disagree at all with what you're saying, I'm well guilty of it (perspective) - though I do hate how football has turned in the modern day and that I am most definitely NOT a fan of.

Even though, yes ultimately (especially now) Football is 'just a business', I think it's important to remember its roots (a sentiment I hope those focused on financial gains within the sport would share). Football Clubs and the league system, which has lost some of its original essence, originated from the passion of working communities and I do think should be respected more than what they are right now.

[ClaretPete001]

Peak UTC, this.

Starts off with a fairly non-descript announcement of something that'll probably turn out to be something-and-nothing. Swiftly moves onto an airing of the general discontent with the owners, with a reheated side order of blaming Dyche/Garlick for the signings in the last few pre-takeover seasons. All liberally garnished with familiar complaints about a perceived lack of communications from the board, all of which seem in essence to boil down to "well, he's not talking to me/he's not communicating the way I want" as if that somehow negates completely what communication there is.

Do I feel particularly valued by the current board? No, not really.
Did I feel particularly valued by the last board? Again, no.

Then again, why should I? For all the romantic stuff some fans (and I used to be one of them) tell themselves about being the true owners/guardians of the club, the bottom line for me is that we are consumers of a product and I've long since learned to tailor my expectations accordingly. My season ticket entitles me to entry to 19/23 home games a season; that's as far as I feel the need to buy into football at this stage of my life. Cynical perhaps, but you wouldn't believe how much sleep I don't lose or time I don't spend worrying about whither football.

Fair point Enola but implicit to the product is the romance of being a Burnley fan. If you haven't got that you haven't got a product.

I think you've missed the point by so far you could pass for an Accy Stanley centre half taking a punt at goal with his swinger from 30 yards out and knocking out 65 year Bill from Huncoat sat in Row Z with his travelling rug and flask of Bovril.

That's why even in the Dundee PR material the word community springs up constantly. The reality of it is not the point - the illusion of it is the product and the ability to maintain the illusion is the job of the board.

No one goes to the movies to watch Bambi being eaten by a grizzly bear after 10 minutes and left as a rotting corpse for the carrion to feed on for the hour an a half because that is not the product people want or expect.

[Enola Gay]

I'm not entirely happy with the way football has changed myself.

It has changed though, and whether or not you embrace that change you still have to deal with the game as it is, not how you'd like it to be. Same as everything else in life, as much as we might like to think football is/should be an escape from it.

It goes back to my earlier point about how far you want to/can go. Right now I can afford a season ticket that gets me in to every home League game to a club I'm emotionally invested in as far as I feel I need to be, and gives the opportunity for the social bits before and after, and that's fine.

If those variables change and my happy equation gets knocked askew, that'll be different. No point worrying about that until I reach that point though, and I haven't.

[Enola Gay]

Fair point Enola but implicit to the product is the romance of being a Burnley fan. If you haven't got that you haven't got a product.

I think you've missed the point by so far you could pass for an Accy Stanley centre half taking a punt at goal with his swinger from 30 yards out and knocking out 65 year Bill from Huncoat sat in Row Z with his travelling rug and flask of Bovril.

That's why even in the Dundee PR material the word community springs up constantly. The reality of it is not the point - the illusion of it is the product and the ability to maintain the illusion is the job of the board.

No one goes to the movies to watch Bambi being eaten by a grizzly bear after 10 minutes and left as a rotting corpse for the carrion to feed on for the hour an a half because that is not the product people want or expect.

I probably explained myself better in my second post.

Yes, the romance of the game/that emotional attachment call it what you will is important. If it was was all purely a commercial thing I'd be spending my afternoons in the cinema or Waterstones and having at least as much fun without being cold and wet.

As I've said repeatedly though, you go as far as you want to go... and right now my engagement with the 'illusion' may not be as deep as some others on here, but it's exactly where I need it to be. Other people's opinions will vary and as long as they're happy and healthy with that, that's absolutely fantastic.

[Nori1958]

A lot of us don't live in Burnley, and only visit the town for games, so have no links to the community side, however good or bad it might be
The match day experience is exactly the same for me as its always been. Meet up with another 15/20 mates for a drink before and after the game, none of us are from Burnley, and game day is the only day we have any involvement with the club. By the time I get home iam over the result, win, lose or draw, granted it wasn't like that when I was younger, but certainly for the past 20yrs or so the football result hasn't been the most important thing in my life.

[forzagranata]

For me its not about 'feeling valued' by the club, whatever that means.

Its more that the club has an identity but it seems to be losing it.

The impact of that won't be felt whilst we are relatively successful and in the PL or the top half of the Championship - but when hard times come, as they likely will at some stage, that is when the identity factor becomes a stronger pull - or not as the case may be.

[ClaretPete001]

I probably explained myself better in my second post.

Yes, the romance of the game/that emotional attachment call it what you will is important. If it was was all purely a commercial thing I'd be spending my afternoons in the cinema or Waterstones and having at least as much fun without being cold and wet.

As I've said repeatedly though, you go as far as you want to go... and right now my engagement with the 'illusion' may not be as deep as some others on here, but it's exactly where I need it to be. Other people's opinions will vary and as long as they're happy and healthy with that, that's absolutely fantastic.

Hmm maybe it's just me but that last paragraph does not read very well but ho hum it is what it is..

[Guppyspotter]

I don't live in Burnley, never have, probably never will. Wasn't born there but been an absent supporter all my life.Cannot relar=te to the reason for the moaning tbh. Premier league football for the price of a season ticket, would be all over it i I didn't live in Bristol.
When attending fans finance the game I will change my mindset and accept it's their club, their right to decide how the finance works and their right to criticise how it's run.

[ClaretPete001]

I don't live in Burnley, never have, probably never will. Wasn't born there but been an absent supporter all my life.Cannot relar=te to the reason for the moaning tbh. Premier league football for the price of a season ticket, would be all over it i I didn't live in Bristol.
When attending fans finance the game I will change my mindset and accept it's their club, their right to decide how the finance works and their right to criticise how it's run.

Attending fans do finance the game outside of the PL.

[spt_claret]

Well, I am not actually saying that. My point is the onus might be on CT and others to find ways to make it work rather than give up and simply criticise.

Can't make it work with someone who won't work with you.
Can't make someone talk to you.
Pace can wave and shake hands in the fanzone (HIS territory, might I add) all he likes. Guarantee if anyone asked him a polite but tough question about the Academy status, club finances and the lack of financial transparency, transfer strategy since the summer, overspending he admitted to last season, Dyche's abrupt departure and snubbing on his return, he'd either smile and walk away or call for the staff to eject you. He wouldn't give a real answer, because he doesn't do fan communication, he does PR, very very different.

As for the Dundee partnership, can't see much difference to just a loan agreement for the time being so fine with it, gives lads a chance to play at an okay level. I would hope that if multi-club-ownership becomes a part of our model, we don't try use it to escape FFP, just because other clubs cheat it doesnt mean I want us to- I'd prefer the rules be tightened for the big fish, rather than we sully ourselves trying to play crooked catchup.

[spt_claret]

Nobody was moaning about the owners last season when we were top of the league winning the Championship

I hate this ****.
People did try to still voice complaints (particularly regarding communication, the Academy, and again, lack of financial transparency) but it was "YOU'RE NEVER HAPPY ARE YOU, WE'RE TOP OF THE LEAGUE AND STILL YOU'RE A BOO BOY".
So people were reluctant to deal with the abuse, and didn't voice concerns as much.
There's some people who never allow any criticism and move the criteria.
If we're doing badly, it's having a dig at the club while we're down.
If we're doing well, it's boo boys constantly trying to complain.
If we're doing badly but have previously done well, it's "you didn't moan when things were good".
If we're doing well but previously did badly, it's "you're always moaning though".

There's nothing negative, or hypocritical, or inconsistent, about backing the club, wanting Kompany and the team to do well, being on board with the broader philosophy of 'buy smart, develop, sell for profit, reinvest', but having concerns with the owners and their conduct/decision-making regardless of how good or bad things are in the immediate present.

[123EasyasBFC]

I can’t believe there are 4 pages of people moaning about the ownership again over a new partnership, surely being able to loan you players to a team playing at a decent level is only a benefit to Burnley. Do we really need to know what the full terms of the agreement is.
Far too many people on this thread and on social media that used to have contacts at the club under the old ownership and can’t come to terms that things have changed. Like someone posted earlier Chris Boden can’t wait to throw shade at ALK and it’s clearly because of his time at the Burnley express.
The clubs old media manager who used to speak to various people outside the club is another one who who’s very vocal on social media about the new ownership, clearly didn’t like the way he was let go - his own fault for emailing staff members comments about the new owners.

There’s enough wrong with modern football with things on the field with officials, VAR and play acting from players without fans moaning that owners don’t do a weekly interview with local paper or local supporters club, if we were sitting 10th premier league and this announcement was made nobody would bat an eye lid

[123EasyasBFC]

I hate this ****.
People did try to still voice complaints (particularly regarding communication, the Academy, and again, lack of financial transparency) but it was "YOU'RE NEVER HAPPY ARE YOU, WE'RE TOP OF THE LEAGUE AND STILL YOU'RE A BOO BOY".
So people were reluctant to deal with the abuse, and didn't voice concerns as much.
There's some people who never allow any criticism and move the criteria.
If we're doing badly, it's having a dig at the club while we're down.
If we're doing well, it's boo boys constantly trying to complain.
If we're doing badly but have previously done well, it's "you didn't moan when things were good".
If we're doing well but previously did badly, it's "you're always moaning though".

There's nothing negative, or hypocritical, or inconsistent, about backing the club, wanting Kompany and the team to do well, being on board with the broader philosophy of 'buy smart, develop, sell for profit, reinvest', but having concerns with the owners and their conduct/decision-making regardless of how good or bad things are in the immediate present.

You make valid points here but do people need to be asking questions about the owners conduct and decision making on a thread about a new partnership with a club that is clearly allowing us to send young players on loan for game time

[spt_claret]

Yes that’s why they are investors. You can’t argue they haven’t spent. If they were taking a lot of money out and putting nothing back in I’d be worried. Fans were crying out for investment when we literally spent nothing under the last owners in the last few years they were in charge.

But they have taken money out and they haven't put any easily traceable money in.
The money that's come in, has been loans, which are being paid off with the club's revenue, at interest. In other words- they've effectively taken money out of the club in the future, to put money in now. The investors they've brought in will be in it for profit.
They're not fans with passion projects. Their not oligarchs or Sheikhs out to sportswash their reputation or clean questionable cash by pouring it into a legitimate business, who can afford to invest without a direct return because they're getting a benefit elsewhere.
This is a relationship that ultimately ends with them taking out more than they put in, because that's the whole point of what they're doing- to make money, can't do that without taking out more than you put in. But so far, THEY haven't put in much if anything that we can see- it's all loans they've negotiated from finance pals hedged against the club's infrastructure and potential income, along with a few minor investment partners who to be fair have invested, but will be taking their profits too.
If those future revenues don't enable ALK to pay off the loans, it's the club that loses out, not them.

And I couldn't give a toss about local ownership- I've never even lived in Burnley. But if the owner isn't able or willing to take a loss on running a club, then I'd prefer they were a fan. Not a venture capitalist seeing a community hub as a financial commodity. I don't need to live in the town to understand the community importance of the club to the town, it's something any fan understands if they actually talk to or are friends with fans in the area. The people saying 'well I dont live there so no skin off my back' worry me, it's such a strange attitude to me that shows such a lack of actual connection to the club, it's not hugely removed from the armchair United fans who pivot to a different club if they're not doing well or support a team because they win a lot. The fact that attitude also comes with 'well they don't finance it so no right to criticise'...God help me if that isn't the most ruthless souless, corporate outlook on life I've ever heard. Especially when as pointed- if you're buying a ticket, you are financing in part. The average fan CAN'T buy a club with other peoples' money, the average Wall Street exec can, but some people would rather hold the fans' opinions to account than the executive's actions.

[spt_claret]

You make valid points here but do people need to be asking questions about the owners conduct and decision making on a thread about a new partnership with a club that is clearly allowing us to send young players on loan for game time

Welcome to every internet forum. Topics drift, conversations drift. You go to a pub to watch a football match and talk the game your conversation drifts. It's like people complaining on the transfer thread, it's how all communication works.

[123EasyasBFC]

Welcome to every internet forum. Topics drift, conversations drift. You go to a pub to watch a football match and talk the game your conversation drifts. It's like people complaining on the transfer thread, it's how all communication works.

Conversations difting from a different topic is fine but this is about the same topic, it just seems crazy for anyone to paint a little partnershup with a club in Scotland in a negative light. Questioning the decisions on how they finance the club or the fan experience is drifting to a different topic and actually has substance because we have seen first hand at how bad it is on the turf at the moment in regards to fan experience.
But anyone being negative about a partnership that was announced a few days ago and we have two younger managers players out on loan and potentially a third just seems crazy. How can anyone see it as a negative just because they don’t know the details of it.

Surprised people aren’t moaning that the owners haven’t been on and announced who scored in our behind closed doors game against United yesterday

[spt_claret]

Conversations difting from a different topic is fine but this is about the same topic, it just seems crazy for anyone to paint a little partnershup with a club in Scotland in a negative light. Questioning the decisions on how they finance the club or the fan experience is drifting to a different topic and actually has substance because we have seen first hand at how bad it is on the turf at the moment in regards to fan experience.
But anyone being negative about a partnership that was announced a few days ago and we have two younger managers players out on loan and potentially a third just seems crazy. How can anyone see it as a negative just because they don’t know the details of it.

Surprised people aren’t moaning that the owners haven’t been on and announced who scored in our behind closed doors game against United yesterday

I'd agree on that, unless the partnership does become a means to skirt FFP. Just because we might benefit from that doesn't mean it'd sit right with me, I took pride on how much integrity we had under the Garlick/Dyche regime even if it was very frustrating in a lot of ways at times.
As it stands the partnership looks like it's only a good thing.
But topic drift is still going to happen.

[123EasyasBFC]

I'd agree on that, unless the partnership does become a means to skirt FFP. Just because we might benefit from that doesn't mean it'd sit right with me, I took pride on how much integrity we had under the Garlick/Dyche regime even if it was very frustrating in a lot of ways at times.
As it stands the partnership looks like it's only a good thing.
But topic drift is still going to happen.

Top drift is fine, it’s frustrating when people on the transfer thread can’t understand that it happens, I just meant purely on the topic.

In regards to FFP I can’t see how Dundee would be able to help us massively with FFP anywhere, they won’t pay big transfer fees and I don’t even think their loan wage contributions would help all that much either.

Bit different to PIF bidding for Newcastle players

[aggi]

Top drift is fine, it’s frustrating when people on the transfer thread can’t understand that it happens, I just meant purely on the topic.

In regards to FFP I can’t see how Dundee would be able to help us massively with FFP anywhere, they won’t pay big transfer fees and I don’t even think their loan wage contributions would help all that much either.

Bit different to PIF bidding for Newcastle players

The not at all suspicious way this definitely hasn't happened elsewhere is Dundee buy a player (youth player is particularly helpful) off us for £19m and we buy a player on a five year contract from them for £20m.

You can book that £19m profit all in the year of the transfer and the £20m gets spread over 5 years so is only £4m per year. Hey presto, for a net actual £1m you've made a profit of £15m in the year.

[123EasyasBFC]

The not at all suspicious way this definitely hasn't happened elsewhere is Dundee buy a player (youth player is particularly helpful) off us for £19m and we buy a player on a five year contract from them for £20m.

You can book that £19m profit all in the year of the transfer and the £20m gets spread over 5 years so is only £4m per year. Hey presto, for a net actual £1m you've made a profit of £15m in the year.

Dundee actually have to have 19m spare to buy a player off us to start with which I don’t think many clubs in Scotland if any have that sort of money

[Nori1958]

The not at all suspicious way this definitely hasn't happened elsewhere is Dundee buy a player (youth player is particularly helpful) off us for £19m and we buy a player on a five year contract from them for £20m.

You can book that £19m profit all in the year of the transfer and the £20m gets spread over 5 years so is only £4m per year. Hey presto, for a net actual £1m you've made a profit of £15m in the year.

Far fetched or what?

[Tall Paul]

Dundee actually have to have 19m spare to buy a player off us to start with which I don’t think many clubs in Scotland if any have that sort of money

They would have it spare after "receiving" £20m from Burnley in payment for their player.

[Chester Perry]

Far fetched or what?

that kind of deal has been going on for years, between related and friendly clubs. The most famous instance involving Juventus and Barcelona. It is more difficult now as fair value assessments from governing bodies become more prevalent but it can still happen at values that would transform finances at Dundee.

[aggi]

Far fetched or what?

Given that this was a large part of the Juventus financial irregularities that ended with them having points docked it isn't far fetched at all.

The Miralem Pjanic/Arthur Melo transfer is a real world example.

[Nori1958]

that kind of deal has been going on for years, between related and friendly clubs. The most famous instance involving Juventus and Barcelona. It is more difficult now as fair value assessments from governing bodies become more prevalent but it can still happen at values that would transform finances at Dundee.

So when did we last sell a youth player for 19m?
When did Dundee last sell a player for 20m?

Like I said,... Far fetched

[Foshiznik]

Far fetched or what?

I mean, the Pozzo Family owned Italian club Udinese have bought Pozzo Family owned Watford's Adam Mesina for £6m, Hassane Kamara for £19m (before immediately loaning him back) and 32 year old Christian Kebasele for £6.5m in the last 18 months. Call me a cynic, but it isn't that far fetched to imagine.

None of them are worth any more than 20-40% of the prices paid for them.

[Nori1958]

I mean, the Pozzo Family owned Italian club Udinese have bought Pozzo Family owned Watford's Adam Mesina for £6m, Hassane Kamara for £19m (before immediately loaning him back) and 32 year old Christian Kebasele for £6.5m in the last 18 months. Call me a cynic, but it isn't that far fetched to imagine.

None of them are worth any more than 20-40% of the prices paid for them.

I was talking about the specific example given by the poster, iam fully aware of things that have happened elsewhere.

[Chester Perry]

So when did we last sell a youth player for 19m?
When did Dundee last sell a player for 20m?

Like I said,... Far fetched

you are implying that it is an abstruse notion - it is not - the numbers are exemplars - but for Dundee regular deals below but close to the fair value threshold of £1m would be transformative - their turnover is really low even for a number of league 2 clubs in this country

[Nori1958]

you are implying that it is an abstruse notion - it is not - the numbers are exemplars - but for Dundee regular deals below but close to the fair value threshold of £1m would be transformative - their turnover is really low even for a number of league 2 clubs in this country

I was replying to that exact example... If you think we are selling a youth player to Dundee for 19m, then buying a Dundee player of 20m, you go with it.... But it will never happen

[aggi]

So when did we last sell a youth player for 19m?
When did Dundee last sell a player for 20m?

Like I said,... Far fetched

I thought it was fairly obvious that I'd just picked some nice round numbers as an example. You can flex the numbers to whatever you feel is more realistic.

[Chester Perry]

I thought it was fairly obvious that I'd just picked some nice round numbers as an example. You can flex the numbers to whatever you feel is more realistic.

It was glaringly obvious

[boyyanno]

It was glaringly obvious

Took the words from my mouth.

[aggi]

For those who didn't realise I was just using an example I've expressed it algebraically. Hopefully that will make it easier to understand.

The not at all suspicious way this definitely hasn't happened elsewhere is Dundee buy a player (youth player is particularly helpful) off us for £x and we buy a player on a z year contract from them for £y. (Where x and y are in excess of the players' value.)

You can book that £x profit all in the year of the transfer and the £y gets spread over z years so is only £y/z per year. Hey presto, for a net actual £(y-x) you've made a profit of £(x-y/z) in the year.

[Nori1958]

Nah mate.

This thread is littered with you posting rubbish and then going "I meant somthing else". It's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you could show me one example of me actually saying that I would be extremely grateful....

[Nori1958]

I thought it was fairly obvious that I'd just picked some nice round numbers as an example. You can flex the numbers to whatever you feel is more realistic.

So you agree the example you gave was far fetched?

[123EasyasBFC]

I thought it was fairly obvious that I'd just picked some nice round numbers as an example. You can flex the numbers to whatever you feel is more realistic.

It was obvious but you used very high numbers as to how it would benefit us with FFP when in reality those sort of numbers wouldn’t happen and wouldn’t really be a help towards FFP

[boyyanno]

So... The one above I never said I meant something else, and the same with the club spending money on players.... I've never gone.... Oh sorry.. I meant something else....

I will move along because I Carnt be doing with people like you, who make things up just to make fun, or to make someone look bad. Disagree with people's points all day long, that's fine, but don't make rubbish up.

Yawn.

You've been called out for it by multiple people on this thread, strange that everyone else was also mistaken isn't it.

[boyyanno]

"Please provide a specific example of exactly this happening before with these finances and clubs, when this is a brand new partnership between clubs".
You want him to be a time traveller or something? Disingenous.


He does this all the time. A few posters do but he does it a lot. Plays dumb to try make you explain yourself in detail, picks on one tiny detail, twists it, acts like this disproves everything you're saying. If he can't do that he just repeatedly plays dumb or argues against something you're not saying to try exhaust you, or plain ignores you and picks someone else making similar points. He knows full well what he's doing he's not remotely misunderstanding anything.
Case in point:

Pretends that you're not making an illustrative example to demonstrate the mechanics of your point, fixates as if it has to be exactly 1:1 this scenario and everyone's agreed on this, when you say "no I am not meaning it can only be literally this" he pretends that means you've admitted fault and he's won.
It happens a hell of a lot on this forum. People refusing to engage honestly in debate, which immediately makes me more suspicious of every other stance they trot out.

Exactly this.

At least it seems like he's been found out by most now. New username is likely incoming.