TRAFFORD (AGAIN)

[Westleigh]

Interestingly (this is genuinely not accusatory) when you saw my examples of Trafford being attributed with 100% blame where others were involved, did this mean you judged my Muric example as me being the counter and suggesting him being 100% at fault?

I only ask as this would support my original theory of the illusion of truth around Traffords mistakes ‘every week’ being purported by the 5-6 (possibly less as it’s becoming apparent they had multiple usernames).

My goodness ,the number of posts that have criticised Trafford tonight and they’re all purported to be 5,or 6 posters ,look at the player rating for today and see what JT averaged ,around 4.5 and that’s down to half a dozen posters ,I think you need to seek advice .

[123EasyasBFC]

in fairness though Boss Hogg, they highlighted how shocking the team were regarding set pieces, not just our keeper.
Shearer commented on trafford being at fault admittedly, but he saw the lack of ability in the entire defence too.

The zonal marking and tactics defending set pieces has been terrible, but it’s not the set piece coaches fault that Trafford decides to rush out, run into his own player, flap at the ball, miss the ball and then try and claim he was fouled

[Darthlaw]

Yes I did judge it like that, but only because you said Muric threw it directly to the Spurs player so to me it sounded like you considered him to be 100% at fault.

Had you described what had actually happened originally, I'd have viewed it as a totally fair point because there is without doubt inconsistency in the way the two goalkeepers are held accountable.

It is certainly true that there are a select few posters on this message board that have a strange obsession with Muric or strange hatred of Trafford, or both.

That’s fair. I should have phrased it better.

Until today I’d have said the Trafford hatred club was certainly in the majority but finding out 2 or even possibly four of them were the same person has probably killed that. That said, those pretty incendiary statements I quoted were all made from different posters, some who you would predict and some not so much.

I stand to be corrected but when Muric was rocky in form at the start of last season, I don’t remember him getting the type of venom Trafford is receiving now from anyone.

[Westleigh]

The BBC,the Sky Commentary team,and the foreign broadcasters pundits all say Trafford was at fault ,have they all got an agenda like we keep being told by the usual suspects,or are they all dummies and Vincent knows best?

[alwaysaclaret]

That’s fair. I should have phrased it better.

Until today I’d have said the Trafford hatred club was certainly in the majority but finding out 2 or even possibly four of them were the same person has probably killed that. That said, those pretty incendiary statements I quoted were all made from different posters, some who you would predict and some not so much.

I stand to be corrected but when Muric was rocky in form at the start of last season, I don’t remember him getting the type of venom Trafford is receiving now from anyone.

Because he wasn't s**t week in week out for 24 games, he actually learnt what he was doing wrong.

[Wile E Coyote]

The BBC,the Sky Commentary team,and the foreign broadcasters pundits all say Trafford was at fault ,have they all got an agenda like we keep being told by the usual suspects,or are they all dummies and Vincent knows best?

seeing as your asking, YES, they are.

[Westleigh]

seeing as your asking, YES, they are.

You might be right to a point ,but they’re not part of the so called Muric fan club,and I’m sure are quite impartial when calling out the inadequacies of James Trafford.

[quoonbeatz]

No point making good saves if you can't do the basics well.

It's demoralising for defenders - and indeed the rest of the team - when you can't have full confidence in your keeper, and it's very obvious that they don't. That's the worst of the lot today. No one surrounding him, a clear run at it but he barely gets off the ground and crashes into his own player.

Has to be taken out of the firing line now for the sake of the team, the fans and himself.

[Murger]

I dread next week if he has another mare on a cross. The crowd will start to turn.

[Tackler49]

I don’t understand why VK doesn’t want to see what everybody sees JT just hasn’t got the physical presence when it comes to attacking crosses the slow motion replay on MoTD showed his attempt for the first goal looks even worse does he shout to let his teammates coming for the cross ( i don’t think he does) if he did how did manage to run into one of his own defenders. He’s an excellent shot stopper but at the moment he’s costing goal and momentum

[Vegas Claret]

Interesting than in his post match press conference Kompany blamed one of the new players for dropping too soon (or something like that)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1qDiGlsqyQ

[Blyclaret]

Trafford is a flapper. Comes misjudges the flight of ball. Been doing that quite a while now. Loads times in premier league. But also when he played for Bolton. Except in lower leagues he go away with it. Standard much lower.

[Blyclaret]

Kompany saying it was one new guys should have been there to head ball. It was Traffords ball no question. How long can Kompany defend the undefendable.

[Vim Fuego]

This one is on the manager. It is baffling why VK not see the blindingly obvious. Please tell me it isn't an investment/re-sale decision (it is the only reason I see for persisting with Trafford). Swallow your pride and make the change VK.

[CoolClaret]

This one is on the manager. It is baffling why VK not see the blindingly obvious. Please tell me it isn't an investment/re-sale decision (it is the only reason I see for persisting with Trafford). Swallow your pride and make the change VK.

This stubbornness is why I just can't with him anymore, lost all credit for me. Literally throwing away an attempt to stay in the PL for what?

[South West Claret.]

I’m sorry but those who continue to defend his selection are as pathetic as Vincent is for persisting with him.

The guy is a joke and not up to this level.

Only 1out 6 though I think.

[RVclaret]

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... c#p1945347

Interesting thread.

Comfortably the worst keeper we have had in nearly 2 decades.

We do need a new goalkeeper I think

He’s not a very good goal keeper

Sheff U manager was very smart at ht. He saw Muric flapping around like a drowning man

Why are you having a go at the fanbase for pointing out that Muric is a poor keeper? Everyone sees it. The commentators saw it, the pundits saw it, even Phil Bird saw it. Fair play for backing a Claret but me thinks your pride is the prime motivator here.

I could go on…

[Nori1958]

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... c#p1945347

Interesting thread.







I could go on…

At least they are consistent, using the same words like flapping and how everybody else sees it like they do

[Pearcey]

I really don’t like slagging our players off but having just watched MOTD, Trafford has cost us more points. He will obviously be a good keeper in the future but he really needs to be dropped. I can’t for the life of me believe he’s still starting. Same with Ramsey. Bizarre doesn’t even cut it.

[BurnleyFC]

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... c#p1945347

Interesting thread.







I could go on…

Nice snippets.


Muric improved immeasurably as the season went on, on all aspects of his game, unlike Trafford.

Is Benson still feigning injuries?

[RVclaret]

Nice snippets.


Muric improved immeasurably as the season went on, on all aspects of his game, unlike Trafford.

Is Benson still feigning injuries?

Muric had played the same amount of games for us at this point as Trafford has, at a level below, which is almost incomparable to the Premier League.

Re. Benson, would partly explain why he’s not been getting any minutes don’t you think?

[getbennyon]

There isn't any evidence that he'll become a better keeper with age as he simply lacks the basic athleticism to be a good goalkeeper. He has no spring/bounce, this is not something that will develop with age. It's like pace you either have the attribute or you don't.

[Swizzlestick]

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... c#p1945347

Interesting thread.







I could go on…

Was intrigued to see my post at the time and it was:

Poor performance from Muric today but arguably the two centre backs were worse. Typical hyperbole from some, whose views I now know to avoid, but he has to work on it and get stronger and more commanding - it’s not like he doesn’t have the frame for it.

Which I believe he did as the season went on, both in terms of presence and distribution, before we decided to dump him in the summer. Has Trafford? Not for me. And we’re now in Feb.

[CoolClaret]

Was intrigued to see my post at the time and it was:


Which I believe he did as the season went on, both in terms of presence and distribution, before we decided to dump him in the summer. Has Trafford? Not for me. And we’re now in Feb.

Spot on.

[BurnleyFC]

Muric had played the same amount of games for us at this point as Trafford has, at a level below, which is almost incomparable to the Premier League.

Re. Benson, would partly explain why he’s not been getting any minutes don’t you think?

No, I think your Benson conspiracy is fabrication, as was your assertion that last season’s team would beat this season’s 7-0.

As for Trafford, he’s making the same mistakes week in, week out, albeit against better opposition. That’s not his fault and I hope for his sake he doesn’t get any stick on the Turf - he’s only a young lad. That rests firmly at the feet of Vinny. Him trying to lay the blame on Assignon for yesterdays’s first is bordering on mental.

[RVclaret]

No, I think your Benson conspiracy is fabrication, as was your assertion that last season’s team would beat this season’s 7-0.

As for Trafford, he’s making the same mistakes week in, week out, albeit against better opposition. That’s not his fault and I hope for his sake he doesn’t get any stick on the Turf - he’s only a young lad. That rests firmly at the feet of Vinny. Him trying to lay the blame on Assignon for yesterdays’s first is bordering on mental.

The 7-0 thing was a bit of light humour which you obv didn’t cotton onto. And I can assure you with 100% confidence I did not make up the thing on Benson and it came from a pretty well placed source at Barnfield.

Trafford hasn’t been amazing but he’s been nowhere near as bad as made out by many in here too (just like Muric last season). Having said that I agree and have no idea why Kompany hasn’t at least tried to rotate.

[Darthlaw]

Trafford is going to continue to concede from crossses as PL teams are now focusing their efforts in that manner.

He’s weak on crosses no doubt about it and that’s not helped by an ever changing defence and now midfield (with Ramsey starting the last two). I fully expect Massengo to be next to be chucked in as he’s getting increasing amounts of game time.

VK needs o let the defence who started yesterday begin the next 5 games if not all the remaining games. Settle on a midfield and go for some stability

[CoolClaret]

And I can assure you with 100% confidence I did not make up the thing on Benson and it came from a pretty well placed source at Barnfield.

Calling b0llocks.

Lowbank territory this RV

[RVclaret]

Was intrigued to see my post at the time and it was:


Which I believe he did as the season went on, both in terms of presence and distribution, before we decided to dump him in the summer. Has Trafford? Not for me. And we’re now in Feb.

Same amount of games though, and at a level completely different to having 75% possession at home to Reading in fairness.

[daveisaclaret]

I think when you support the team so much you make up a lie about how lazy one of the players is, you probably need to take a step back.

[RVclaret]

Calling b0llocks.

Lowbank territory this RV

Laughable.

[Darthlaw]

Same amount of games though, and at a level completely different to having 75% possession at home to Reading in fairness.

Wasn’t it the Preston game where Muric spent 60 of the game near the centre circle? So many games last season we didn’t need to defend because we kept possession so well.

[elwaclaret]

I have kept my peace about our young keeper, hoping against hope he’d prove the doubters wrong, but I feel the time has past the lad be given some breathing space to recover his confidence which is clearly shot. Keepers are not getting fouls for every touch this season… unlike most of Trafford’s career and his flopping around like a lettuce leaf in a challenge is no longer going to buy free-kicks. He’s a young lad and needs time to toughen up. That cannot happen when top players know how to get at him… and are doing so week after week.

The sort of pressure paying off for opponents needs an old fashioned goalkeeper who will flatten everything in front of him when coming for the ball… and someone not scared to catch the ball instead of play patter-cake like it’s a balloon he’s dealing with.

[RVclaret]

Wasn’t it the Preston game where Muric spent 60 of the game near the centre circle? So many games last season we didn’t need to defend because we kept possession so well.

Yup exactly, albeit I’d add he was a big factor in why we kept possession so well! I was intrigued to see how he’d get on at a higher level. But worth highlighting the complete different scenarios our keeper faces in this league in comparison.

[CoolClaret]

Laughable.

You can say that again!

[Swizzlestick]

There were a good few games around Christmas/January time where we weren’t just controlling it for fun from the centre circle and we had to dig it out a bit (Stoke away, Swansea away etc) and Muric was a big part of that. And as mentioned, a big part of our possession control in games was due to the keeper.

[Darthlaw]

Unfortunately it seems we’ll never know if the outfield players were composed enough to play possession football with Muric in goal, similar to last season, but glimpses have told me it’s unlikely. Amdouni losing the ball for their second yesterday on the edge of the box puts doubt in my head more so.

Whether VK decided to rip up the winning formula from last season in June (when he started hunting for a new GK), because he thought it was beyond our players capability, I don’t know. But something clearly happened for him, his coaching team and no doubt the board to continue with this style we’ve tried to employ this season. Ones thing is for sure, it doesn’t seem we’ve tried to employ last years tactics at all.

[1fatclaret]

You do realise that our defenders can also challenge for crosses.
Goalkeepers are not solely responsible for free headers.

I’ve only got as far as this post before I had to reply. It implies that the first goal was partly down to the defender for not challenging for the ball? Listen to the goal on the sky highlights, you can clearly hear him shouting ‘keeper’s before clattering into his own defender and crumpling into a heap.

100% goalkeeper error. If you shout for it, it’s yours. No excuses, no looking at anyone else. You come and claim that ball.

[Big Vinny K]

If Trafford spent as much time practicing how to come for crosses as some people spend on this board criticising him I think we’d be sorted.

Good job we have not got the team who have been strongest from set pieces this season coming next. Oh hang on yes we have.

Trafford needs dropping. We are getting relegated irrespective but that is not a reason to keep players who are struggling in the team. We have a squad of players who train hard all week and deserve to be treated fairly. The goalkeeping position is a little unique in that it’s the one position where players tend to get longer before they are dropped….but Trafford has had long enough now.

I’ve resigned myself now to VK coming up with baffling team selections and substitutions for the rest of the season. In relation to Trafford I have no idea whether he will drop him. Just like I have no idea why he chooses not to bring on Cullen or Benson when we are 3-1 down at Anfield.

[Neil]

My take on the matter for what it's worth....
I said at the end of last season that I'd be surprised if Muric was our starting keeper in the prem. My opinion was that we'd more likely need a keeper like Pope (great shot stopper) as we'd be under a lot more pressure and be facing a lot more shots. We wouldn't be passing the ball around the back for two to three minutes at a time so Kompany would sacrifice a ball playing keeper for one that would save us points with match winning saves.

I was pleased when we signed Trafford though this was based purely on him winning the Euros without conceding, being at Man City and a large fee - I assumed he would be the real deal.

When the criticism of Trafford began (pretty early) it was mainly aimed at his distribution and I defended him, not much on here as I'm more of a reader than a poster, as I believed he was brought in as a shot stopper and they would he working on his passing in training.

As time went by I became more concerned with his physical presence and decision making, particularly crosses / corners.

On balance I think the time has come to drop him.

I'm not convinced we'll do any better with Muric but like many I think the season has gone. He would benefit from working on his weaknesses away from the glare.

For every discussion on here around individual goals (was he at fault or not) he will be having those thoughts in his own head and I doubt he'll be kidding himself on a lot of them. We all know when we've ducked up even if we don't admit it out loud.

Take the lad out of the firing line and let's see if Muric is as good as his many supporters seem to think.

[KRBFC]

I do think we needed a new goalkeeper in the summer with hindsight, after seeing Muric a few times this season I don’t think he’s the answer.

However Trafford has been nowhere near as bad as made out by some posters who have been at his neck from the moment he walked through the door.

I just think we need a talker in goal, someone who is going to organise and demand. Never should a goalkeeper just allow himself to be pinned in at corners, physically move them and demand your team mates to move them.

I think Trafford will become a top goalkeeper and full international, he’s a really really good shot stopper and he’s decent with the ball at his feet. He’s also good at coming out and sweeping. The part he lacks is the commanding of his area at crosses, a little weak and indecisive. That will hopefully come with time and experience.

[Belgianclaret]

His potential is there to be seen, but after conceding far too many headed goals from close range he should be dropped…right away.
Give Muric an opportunity to show his physicality in our box, something he definitely improved on as last season evolved.
As I said before: if our opponents realise they risk a knee or an elbow if they come too close they’ll back off after a while.
I’m astounded how we allow ourselves to be crowded out so close to our goal line

[Westleigh]

Did anyone think the Kompany changed his tactics yesterday? I can’t remember us playing out from the back very much

[Big Vinny K]

I agree that this season more than any we needed an experienced keeper. Especially with that defence and midfield in front of him.

I don’t think Muric was the answer either - he may have plenty of confidence in his own ability but as a character he does not look anywhere near the talker and leader we need. And like Trafford zero experience at this level.

Even bringing in Trafford, selling Muric and bringing in an experienced no2 keeper would have been a better strategy.

VK talked a lot about building on the foundations that made Burnley what we have been in the last decade or so. I think last season with the way we used Cork, Jay, Barnes etc we saw evidence of this. This season I am really struggling to see any evidence of this whatsoever.

[Swizzlestick]

Did anyone think the Kompany changed his tactics yesterday? I can’t remember us playing out from the back very much

He’s changed them earlier than yesterday (we were out passed by Luton the other week) partly, I think, to accommodate the keeper.

[warksclaret]

My take on the matter for what it's worth....
I said at the end of last season that I'd be surprised if Muric was our starting keeper in the prem. My opinion was that we'd more likely need a keeper like Pope (great shot stopper) as we'd be under a lot more pressure and be facing a lot more shots. We wouldn't be passing the ball around the back for two to three minutes at a time so Kompany would sacrifice a ball playing keeper for one that would save us points with match winning saves.

I was pleased when we signed Trafford though this was based purely on him winning the Euros without conceding, being at Man City and a large fee - I assumed he would be the real deal.

When the criticism of Trafford began (pretty early) it was mainly aimed at his distribution and I defended him, not much on here as I'm more of a reader than a poster, as I believed he was brought in as a shot stopper and they would he working on his passing in training.

As time went by I became more concerned with his physical presence and decision making, particularly crosses / corners.

On balance I think the time has come to drop him.

I'm not convinced we'll do any better with Muric but like many I think the season has gone. He would benefit from working on his weaknesses away from the glare.

For every discussion on here around individual goals (was he at fault or not) he will be having those thoughts in his own head and I doubt he'll be kidding himself on a lot of them. We all know when we've ducked up even if we don't admit it out loud.

Take the lad out of the firing line and let's see if Muric is as good as his many supporters seem to think.

I agree with you and I am more in the Trafford camp than Muric's, and yes we cannot continue waiting for another goal keeping gash to happen from a corner. Dont forget its Arsenal next week and as they showed at the Emirates they are deadly at corners. I think we will concede more goals from shots under Muric but at least we can take Trafford out the firing line.Personally I think this issues goes deeper than straight selection and VK has a dislike of Muric . Something has happened between these two, and I am somewhat surprised Muric has not pushed for a move

[StayingDown4Ever]

So now we have all seen Match of the Day and had chance to sleep in it - are we all now in agreement that Trafford needs dropping?

[Nori1958]

So now we have all seen Match of the Day and had chance to sleep in it - are we all now in agreement that Trafford needs dropping?

No, only because there's nobody better to replace him

[Kilson810]

So now we have all seen Match of the Day and had chance to sleep in it - are we all now in agreement that Trafford needs dropping?

Yes, although it's too late to affect the season now so it's almost pointless.

[CoolClaret]

No, only because there's nobody better to replace him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5omj4Ply38