Is Relegation such a bad thing really?

[Wokingclaret]

Are you ever going to contribute anything other than this?

At least I provide reason.

I will provide a reason, this is the worst preforming Premier league squad we have ever had, the club is in debt to the hilt and there is no guarantee we will bounce back next season. Kompany will be damaged by this, he has discarded players so quickly, will he have the pulling power next season which was why these players signed and wanted to play for him.

I'm all for giving him next season, but he has his work cut out to turn this lot around.

The plan has failed big time

[RVclaret]

I'm not saying we need to get back 100-150 million. I was replying to someone saying we could make a 'hell of a lot of money" in player sales. I'm saying we will do well to get our money back, let alone make a profit overall on player trading.

I am not sure at all that our wage bill will be considerably lower than it was last time we were relegated. Individual wages may be but the squad is much bigger than it was under Dyche and when the loan players return in June then we have to pay them over the summer as well.

As well as any operating loss we have some large loans to service and at some stage pay off.

Revenue will fall next season significantly - sponsorship, hospitality and gate receipts will all go down.

That's all before any calculation of what VK might want to spend on rebuilding his squad.

Fair, makes sense although I’d fancy we could easily get to a similar £ amount in sales as upon the last relegation if we wanted to (70m).

Time will tell on the wage bill but I’d be very surprised if it’s more than 70m. All the rest you mentioned we had last time too and did alright. I suppose the upcoming accounts will give a bit better insight.

[123EasyasBFC]

I guess we might make a hell of a lot of money on selling the current team but I'd be very surprised.

I'd be pleasantly surprised if we were able to get our money back on the players we bought last summer. Will someone pay 15-20 million for Trafford? Amdouni? Ramsey? Tresor? I doubt it. Berge we could probably recoup our investment.

Someone might take a punt on Odabert, someone in Germany would probably be interested in Beyer but for how much? Koleosho looked like he might command a decent fee but after a long injury that's a different matter now. Foster's value will obviously have been impacted by his injuries and other issues.

I just don't see how we get 100-150 million back for this squad.

We aren't in a strong position in any negotiations, other clubs will know we need to sell and we haven't got players who will generate a bidding war.

It’s all about the end of season, if Odobert ends up scoring 4 or 5 in last 13 games and gets another 4 or 5 assists then a club might take a punt on in his potential, if a player like Wharton can go for 22m from championship then what’s Odobert worth at 19?

Someone might look at Trafford and think he’s English and a good shot stopper and think he’s got the makings of a good keeper.

Then there’s the players out on loan

[123EasyasBFC]

We need to be clever next season not relying on to many loan signings because last season the values of THB, Beyer, Maatsen and Tella all doubled due to their performances, would of cost around 70m to sign all 4 of those.

Finance wise we will probably need loan signings again next season but the bulk of our starting 11 can’t be loans again

[Sutton-Claret]

I hate the Premier League, I hate VAR and I hate the 'so called top six' and the obvious biased towards them....... I also hate that I can't get a ticket to see a game but Arsenal / Villa / fans etc can. I'm looking forward to next season.

[Nori1958]

I hate the Premier League, I hate VAR and I hate the 'so called top six' and the obvious biased towards them....... I also hate that I can't get a ticket to see a game but Arsenal / Villa / fans etc can. I'm looking forward to next season.

I agree about the Premier league, but there have been tickets available for every home game

[Burnley1989]

You could easily get a ticket for any game this season, even the away games haven’t been difficult

[Westleigh]

People say we’re on a learning curve and things will be better next season after this years experience ,does anyone think that Kompany has learnt one single thing from the beginning of this season that is now feeding through into the current games ,and as any player made any improvement since the first day of this season,and is there suddenly going to be a ureka moment when the penny drops and everything in the garden is rosy?

[Sutton-Claret]

I agree about the Premier league, but there have been tickets available for every home game

Not 4 or 5 together....... my 2 lads and a couple of mates. Can't have them scattered around the place in case opposition fans (who shouldn't be there) kick off.

[boatshed bill]

People say we’re on a learning curve and things will be better next season after this years experience ,does anyone think that Kompany has learnt one single thing from the beginning of this season that is now feeding through into the current games ,and as any player made any improvement since the first day of this season,and is there suddenly going to be a ureka moment when the penny drops and everything in the garden is rosy?

If he's learned one thing it will be how quickly some fans can turn if they don't get what they expect

[Sutton-Claret]

You could easily get a ticket for any game this season, even the away games haven’t been difficult

1 ticket yes but not if you want 3,4 or 5 together. Believe me I've tried..... I've complained to the ticket office on numerous occasions without reply.

[Vegas Claret]

Another here who hates the PL, not because we can't compete in it but mainly because of VAR. I cannot wait for next season

[Nori1958]

Not 4 or 5 together....... my 2 lads and a couple of mates. Can't have them scattered around the place in case opposition fans (who shouldn't be there) kick off.

Sorry, you said you couldn't get a ticket
Granted it might be a little more difficult wanting 4 or 5 together

[Westleigh]

If he's learned one thing it will be how quickly some fans can turn if they don't get what they expect

I think the fans have been extremely patient ,it’s only been the last couple of games when there’s been any sort of unrest in the ground

[boatshed bill]

I think the fans have been extremely patient ,it’s only been the last couple of games when there’s been any sort of unrest in the ground

I agree, about the travelling fans in particular.

[Sutton-Claret]

You could easily get a ticket for any game this season, even the away games haven’t been difficult

Have a look on the website, tell me how many games are showing tickets available and how many are showing sold out for home games.... Why say 'you could easily get a ticket'?? - If I'd booked 6 months ago fair enough... I have 120 loyalty points which obviously isn't enough.... I wasn't at the 'Orient' game which only 'real' fans were at and I never saw the dog run on the pitch at York (even though I live in York).

[Jamesy]

Money to rebuild his squad? After what he has spunked on players this season, would you trust him with any more cash?

[Westleigh]

I agree, about the travelling fans in particular.

A lot of the fans have reacted similarly to the beginning of last season when we played it around a lot at the back but the fans then learnt how we were going to play ,but the last few games when we’ve been losing with 5 mins to go and we still are playing sideways has riled quite a few of the home fans,and I think it may get worse,but overall the home fans have been pretty patient.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

I don't think promotion for the Championship is nailed on at all...I just said it should be our aim.

And I never said that you said that? I wasn't referring to anyone in particular but there are a few who post on here who think next year will be a doddle.

[Jakubclaret]

And I never said that you said that? I wasn't referring to anyone in particular but there are a few who post on here who think next year will be a doddle.

It's pretty much the same cloud cuckoo gang that thought this campaign would be a cakewalk after we stormed the championship

[Pearcey]

Not being robbed by var or having the big clubs get the decisions you say? Not losing every game? Go on then, I’ll have a bit of championship!

[boatshed bill]

A lot of the fans have reacted similarly to the beginning of last season when we played it around a lot at the back but the fans then learnt how we were going to play ,but the last few games when we’ve been losing with 5 mins to go and we still are playing sideways has riled quite a few of the home fans,and I think it may get worse,but overall the home fans have been pretty patient.

Can't disagree with that.
I suppose I should expect it, but VK has gone very quickly from hero to zero despite the excellent work he's put into the club.
It's to some extent understandable, and to some extent unacceptable.

[Quicknick]

It all depends on whether we get promoted in a season or possibly two. Whilst it would be a failure if we didn’t, there's obviously no guarantee it would happen, and it's hard to see what resources we will have next season. If we don't swiftly get promoted it will be a very bad thing.

If we don't get promoted quickly, we could end up in League 1.

[CrosspoolClarets]

It’s likely Berge, Odobert, Amdouni could all go for £20m each. Tresor for £10m. If need be, Ramsay, Trafford and co would all go for decent sums. I have no doubts the books could balance.

That’s before we factor in the possible compensation claim.

So I see us in a far healthier state than 20 months ago. Doesn’t guarantee the same outcome, but I am relaxed about it. The key is all sticking together and giving VK the chance to redeem this season, which I am sure he will.

[ClaretPete001]

It’s likely Berge, Odobert, Amdouni could all go for £20m each. Tresor for £10m. If need be, Ramsay, Trafford and co would all go for decent sums. I have no doubts the books could balance.

That’s before we factor in the possible compensation claim.

So I see us in a far healthier state than 20 months ago. Doesn’t guarantee the same outcome, but I am relaxed about it. The key is all sticking together and giving VK the chance to redeem this season, which I am sure he will.

20 months ago we had £50 million of talent of long standing service to the club with no transfer fees left to pay.

Now you are suggesting that we can balance the books by selling 7 players on the basis that the likes of Odobert will almost double in value based upon this seasons performance?

And then what? We've balanced the books and don't have Berge, Odobert, Amdouni, Tresor, Ramsay and Trafford.

Are you wanting a game or something?

[It Is What It Is]

Not many stating what they prefer….EPL and a perpetual relegation battle or a Championship Yo yo club.
I’m well for the latter, more games, end to end footy, more derbies, …and no bloody VAR.
I trust the refs and assistants, they will make mistakes….but honest ones.

[Clive 1960]

i personally think if we don't come back up in the next couple of seasons we could be in trouble financially..

[Guller Bull]

So that’s our squad list courtesy of CT

(2023/24)
FIRST TEAM SQUAD

1 James Trafford Goalkeeper 10/10/2002 25 0 2027
2 Dara O’Shea Defender 04/03/1999 24+1 2 2027
3 Charlie Taylor Defender 18/09/1993 18+1 1 2024
4 Jack Cork Midfielder 25/06/1989 1+3 0 2024
5 Jordan Beyer Defender 19/05/2000 15 0 2027
6 CJ Egan-Riley – on loan at PSV Eindhoven Defender 02/01/2003 0 0 2025
7 Jóhann Berg Guðmundsson Midfielder 27/10/1990 12+6 0 2024+
8 Josh Brownhill Midfielder 19/12/1995 22+4 3 2024+
9 Jay Rodriguez Forward 29/07/1989 10+7 2 2024
10 Manuel Benson Midfielder 28/03/1997 2+3 0 2027
14 Connor Roberts – on loan at Leeds Defender 23/09/1995 8+8 0 2025
15 Nathan Redmond Midfielder 06/03/1994 2+13 0 2025+
16 Sander Berge Midfielder 14/02/1998 23+4 2 2027
17 Lyle Foster Forward 03/09/2000 14+2 4 2028
18 Hjalmar Ekdal Defender 21/10/1998 5+2 0 2027
19 Anass Zaroury – on loan at Hull Forward 07/11/2000 3+6 0 2028
20 Lorenz Assignon – on loan from Rennes Defender 22/06/2000 3 0 2024
21 Aaron Ramsey Midfielder 21/01/2003 7+10 0 2028
22 Vitinho Defender 23/07/1999 20+3 0 2027
23 David Datro Fofana – on loan from Chelsea Forward 22/12/2002 2+2 2 2024
24 Josh Cullen Midfielder 07/04/1996 13+2 0 2026
25 Zeki Amdouni Forward 04/12/2000 25+2 5 2028
27 Darko Churlinov – on loan at Schalke 04 Midfielder 11/07/2000 0 0 2026
28 Ameen Al-Dakhil Defender 06/03/2002 13+4 1 2026
29 Lawrence Vigouroux Goalkeeper 19/11/1993 0 0 2026
30 Luca Koleosho Midfielder 15/09/2004 13+2 1 2027
31 Mike Trésor – on loan from Genk Midfielder 28/05/1999 4+13 0 2024
33 Maxime Estève – on loan from Montpellier Defender 26/05/2002 2+1 0 2024
34 Jacob Bruun Larsen – on loan from Hoffenheim Midfielder 19/09/1998 7+17 3 2024
42 Han-Noah Massengo Midfielder 07/07/2001 0+4 0 2027
44 Hannes Delcroix Defender 28/02/1999 8+6 0 2026
45 Michael Obafemi – on loan at Millwall Forward 06/07/2000 0+2 0 u/k23
47 Wilson Odobert Midfielder 28/11/2004 14+6 4 2028
49 Arijanet Muric Goalkeeper 07/11/1998 4 0 2026
Samuel Bastien – on loan at Kasımpaşa S.K. Midfielder 26/09/1996 2025
Dara Costelloe – on loan at Dundee Midfielder 11/12/2002 2024
Owen Dodgson – on loan at Dundee Defender 19/03/2003 2025
Bailey Peacock-Farrell – on loan at Aarhus Goalkeeper 29/10/1996 2024+
Luke McNally – on loan at Stoke Defender 20/09/1999 2026
Scott Twine – on loan at Bristol City Midfielder 14/07/1999 2026
Wout Weghorst – on loan at Hoffenheim Forward 07/08/1992 2025


So take out Cork, Rodriguez, Taylor, Costelloe who will be out of contract.
Take out the loans with no option to buy Assignon, Fofana - can’t remember who else is in that category

Sort out the definite “gones” - I would put Weghorst and Churlinov in that bracket.

Would imagine a few of Brownhill, Trafford/Muric Foster, Benson, Zaroury Twine etc etc will move on for fees. Still leaves a biggish and decent Championship squad with the likes of Koleeosho, Redmond, and Ramsey returning from injury.

I’m sure there others that will go and come but I think we are ina better shape squad wise than the last relegation.

[Guller Bull]

Not many stating what they prefer….EPL and a perpetual relegation battle or a Championship Yo yo club.
I’m well for the latter, more games, end to end footy, more derbies, …and no bloody VAR.
I trust the refs and assistants, they will make mistakes….but honest ones.

I prefer the Championship for the excitement and the relative honesty of the game. I have said this consistently for the last few years. It’s just more involved and inclusive.
But as everyone knows and can’t avoid, everyone is chasing the golden goose. It’s one of them where there is little fun being promoted just to start the season trying to avoid relegation but to not be promoted jeopardises the financial wellbeing of the club. Catch 22

[Burnley1989]

Have a look on the website, tell me how many games are showing tickets available and how many are showing sold out for home games.... Why say 'you could easily get a ticket'?? - If I'd booked 6 months ago fair enough... I have 120 loyalty points which obviously isn't enough.... I wasn't at the 'Orient' game which only 'real' fans were at and I never saw the dog run on the pitch at York (even though I live in York).

You stated can’t get a ticket? Not 4-5 together? I think you‘ve moved the goal posts a little?

You’d struggle to get 5 season tickets next to each other, never mind 5 match day tickets at a few weeks notice

[Carlos the Great]

anyone who thinks it’s ok to have wasted so much money on sub standard signings clearly has never run a business … Its a disaster and I’m not sure how it’s all going to go next season in the championship ..

[Claretforever]

So you find it fascinating our fans are hopeful promotion is a guarantee but then say Everton plus Southampton or Leeds will be and then throw in Sheff Utd. What did you say...nothing is guaranteed...but only when it seems to involve your club

No, being hopeful is different than speaking in facts. Many of our fans are making the assumption promotion is a given rather than speaking of hope.

With the other clubs I’m saying they’ll all expect to be up there, and from that list, and you can possibly add in any of Sunderland, Coventry, West Brom, Norwich, 2-3 of those 8 clubs will end up pushing.

So yeah, I find it fascinating.

[jlup1980]

Relegation will be terminal this time.

We seemingly don't have a single player or position adequately covered. We've become the Vincent Kompany "play thing". The team is made up of his players and they simply aren't good enough. Character plays a big part in the modern game and we can all see these lads have none of it. For all the plaudits we give THB, Maatsen and Tella last season we have to remember that the team had experience and character. Whether it was Taylor, Roberts, Brownhill Cork, JBG, Barnes or Jay Rod they all played their part. The mix between youth and experience was right. How on earth has Vincent completely forgotten or ignored about that mix?!

We're worse than we were under Brian Laws. We're less effective than we were during the long, barren spells under Steve Cotterill. We're as open and easy to score against as we were under Eddie Howe (but at least we could score under Eddie!). We're the exact opposite of everything Sean Dyche built over a decade.

[evensteadiereddie]

So much nonsense in so many words...

[quoonbeatz]

Nope, looking forward to it. Back in a proper football league where nothing is a given. No VAR ruining the game, more to play for than survival.

The PL is boring as ****.

[ClaretOfMancunia]

Looking forward to winning some games.

Worried about the long term financial impact on the club if we don't go back up. Could be the start of a terminal decline.

[jrgbfc]

Nope, looking forward to it. Back in a proper football league where nothing is a given. No VAR ruining the game, more to play for than survival.

The PL is boring as ****.

And the away days are miles better. Sat in the Burnley end at the Emirates being surrounded by tourists wearing 50/50 scarves was the last straw for me.

[GetIntoEm]

people claiming we will be financially screwed due to relegation clearly have no idea about how business works, i'd stay out of that conversation.

Our income wont drastically drop next year, all the old heads on big wages will be gone, our wage bill is already massively reduced over last time. Parachute payments will cover us operating in the championship while our existing commitments are still live.

any player sales will be a bonus, not vital.

[CoolClaret]

people claiming we will be financially screwed due to relegation clearly have no idea about how business works, i'd stay out of that conversation.

Our income wont drastically drop next year, all the old heads on big wages will be gone, our wage bill is already massively reduced over last time. Parachute payments will cover us operating in the championship while our existing commitments are still live.

any player sales will be a bonus, not vital.

Of course our income will drastically drop - that's the benefit of being in the PL, be it ticket sales, sponsorship, tv revenue etc.. parachute payments help of course but they don't subsidise the income difference.

Wages will be reduced yes, but any outstanding transfer repayments or loans will still be taking a chunk out of our income. Remember we have the mandatory Tresor/Esteve signings come June 2024 as well, that's another £30 mill ish from the off.

[GetIntoEm]

Of course our income will drastically drop - that's the benefit of being in the PL, be it ticket sales, sponsorship, tv revenue etc.. parachute payments help of course but they don't subsidise the income difference.

Wages will be reduced yes, but any outstanding transfer repayments or loans will still be taking a chunk out of our income. Remember we have the mandatory Tresor/Esteve signings come June 2024 as well, that's another £30 mill ish from the off.

all transfers were over fairly lengthy deals, with parachute payment, championship tv rights, wage reduction, and contract reduction for those staying we wont be much worse off. certainly not catastrophic levels. we could handle at least 3 years in the championship without promotion, at current spending rate before i'd be remotely worried

[CoolClaret]

all transfers were over fairly lengthy deals, with parachute payment, championship tv rights, wage reduction, and contract reduction for those staying we wont be much worse off. certainly not catastrophic levels. we could handle at least 3 years in the championship without promotion, at current spending rate before i'd be remotely worried

Not saying it's catastrophic but we clearly push the boat out on transfers.

Doesn't matter how many years the deals are over, still need to pay/finance them and that's before any further incomings.

Obviously don't have data on how many players we still owe money on but I imagine it's a significant % of the current squad.

[StayingDown4Ever]

Relegation will be terminal this time.

We seemingly don't have a single player or position adequately covered. We've become the Vincent Kompany "play thing". The team is made up of his players and they simply aren't good enough. Character plays a big part in the modern game and we can all see these lads have none of it. For all the plaudits we give THB, Maatsen and Tella last season we have to remember that the team had experience and character. Whether it was Taylor, Roberts, Brownhill Cork, JBG, Barnes or Jay Rod they all played their part. The mix between youth and experience was right. How on earth has Vincent completely forgotten or ignored about that mix?!

We're worse than we were under Brian Laws. We're less effective than we were during the long, barren spells under Steve Cotterill. We're as open and easy to score against as we were under Eddie Howe (but at least we could score under Eddie!). We're the exact opposite of everything Sean Dyche built over a decade.

I take it you don’t buy into the project then?

[forzagranata]

Not saying it's catastrophic but we clearly push the boat out on transfers.

Doesn't matter how many years the deals are over, still need to pay/finance them and that's before any further incomings.

Obviously don't have data on how many players we still owe money on but I imagine it's a significant % of the current squad.

There will almost certainly be significant part payments due from last summer's spending on players.

[mickleoverclaret]

I would have thought if ALK thought there was a financial catastrophe looming with 1-2 years in the Championship then Kompany would have been long gone. They don't appeared to be fazed by relegation which suggests to me they think we can absorb the impact (with the caveat we'd need to get back up sooner rather than later, of course).

[CoolClaret]

There will almost certainly be significant part payments due from last summer's spending on players.

Yeah for sure -

Again, not saying it's catastrophic at all, just seems like spinning our wheels in all honesty.

[Jakubclaret]

I would have thought if ALK thought there was a financial catastrophe looming with 1-2 years in the Championship then Kompany would have been long gone. They don't appeared to be fazed by relegation which suggests to me they think we can absorb the impact (with the caveat we'd need to get back up sooner rather than later, of course).

Not if you can't afford to pay him off or hire another manager who'd be capable of avoiding the drop you'd be chucking good money away after bad. Not fazed you having a tin bath you've had 1 of the investors recently more or less screaming blue murder on social media about the so called perceived injustices I wouldn't say they are bricking it but I'd say it's uncomfortable.

[NickBFC]

I don't think relegation is a good thing at all. I can see another summer of outgoings, and multiple incomings. We may get promoted again, but could well find ourselves in a similar position the following season in the PL. We really needed to stay up this season and find some continuity - instead it feels to me like another summer of rebuilding ahead and a wasted 12 months.

[mickleoverclaret]

Not if you can't afford to pay him off or hire another manager who'd be capable of avoiding the drop you'd be chucking good money away after bad. Not fazed you having a tin bath you've had 1 of the investors recently more or less screaming blue murder on social media about the so called perceived injustices I wouldn't say they are bricking it but I'd say it's uncomfortable.

I seriously doubt they can't afford to sack him if they wanted to. The COO was on Radio Lancashire last week saying he had the safest job in the 92, that sounds pretty comfortable to me.

[Jakubclaret]

I seriously doubt they can't afford to sack him if they wanted to. The COO was on Radio Lancashire last week saying he had the safest job in the 92, that sounds pretty comfortable to me.

Probably could but they'd be plunging themselves further into the sh1t & don't you think financially they are deep in enough? It's safe alright but not because he's a good manager more to do with the financial burden of getting shut.

[GetIntoEm]

it would cost a few million to get rid, drop in the ocean in the grand scheme of things. clubs dont keep managers because they cannot afford to sack them. certainly one as fortunate as ours.