Alan Pace

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Nonayforever
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Re: Alan Pace

Post by Nonayforever » Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:50 am

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:12 am
That is true of all the Chairmen of the club. I don't think I've encountered one that can be thought of as successful if the club is not...!

Arguably, Alan Pace has less at stake than the other because he bought it using the club's money.

And I'm not sure how much educated advice you can take when you gamble on a group of unknown players in the hope they succeed in the best league in the world.

I suspect if he was prone to taking advice he would have been a bit more cautious.
Slightly disagree with you there Pete.
Although AP used the clubs money for a large part of the purchase, he may have used all of his money for his "share" of the purchase, therefore he is invested.
On the advice bit, he will have 100 % taken Vinnies advice on the purchase of the players.
On the being cautious bit, he will take lots of advice, sift through the advice and make the most risk adverse decision based on that advice. That is cautious because he has analysed the risk.

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by ClaretPete001 » Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:36 am

Nonayforever wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:50 am
Slightly disagree with you there Pete.
Although AP used the clubs money for a large part of the purchase, he may have used all of his money for his "share" of the purchase, therefore he is invested.
On the advice bit, he will have 100 % taken Vinnies advice on the purchase of the players.
On the being cautious bit, he will take lots of advice, sift through the advice and make the most risk adverse decision based on that advice. That is cautious because he has analysed the risk.
I have no doubt he is invested but no more or less so than other Chairman. The extent to which he has invested financially is open to conjecture because I don't think anyone knows. Looking at his CV the sums involved seem very large for someone who was a divisional Director of an investment bank prior to coming to the club, particularly, the £68 million to the former owners.

It isn't a cautious strategy and while you can mitigate risk you can't make it less risky you can only manage the levels of risk. And he will be monitoring the risk to his investment as opposed to the club, which is not necessarily the same thing.

I don't think anyone could or would have forecast a season as bad as this one. Getting relegated with 34 points with a team that is young but has essentially played well but fallen at the final hurdle is not the same as getting relegated with a team that barely scrapes 20 points and finishes up with 4 loanees playing.

I'm not sure even the most detailed of spreadsheets could have forecast that happening....!

Nonayforever
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Re: Alan Pace

Post by Nonayforever » Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:04 am

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:36 am
I have no doubt he is invested but no more or less so than other Chairman. The extent to which he has invested financially is open to conjecture because I don't think anyone knows. Looking at his CV the sums involved seem very large for someone who was a divisional Director of an investment bank prior to coming to the club, particularly, the £68 million to the former owners.

It isn't a cautious strategy and while you can mitigate risk you can't make it less risky you can only manage the levels of risk. And he will be monitoring the risk to his investment as opposed to the club, which is not necessarily the same thing.

I don't think anyone could or would have forecast a season as bad as this one. Getting relegated with 34 points with a team that is young but has essentially played well but fallen at the final hurdle is not the same as getting relegated with a team that barely scrapes 20 points and finishes up with 4 loanees playing.

I'm not sure even the most detailed of spreadsheets could have forecast that happening....!
Agree with the above - we are back on the same wavelength.
So going back to the point of AP doing something to enhance his investment rather than waiting for something to happen:-
I have no doubt he will be totally shocked at this season and would expect him to be disappointed with his Staff in not progressing the plan.
He has fulfilled his part and been let down on the pitch.
From his past career he is aware of office politics and be aware of dressing room politics which, in my view, is why we saw loans out in January coupled with some strengthening.
He , again, has done something not waited, the actions taken don't appear to have worked again so I expect him to re-evaluate his decisions and take further actions to get the plan back on line.

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by FCBurnley » Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:16 am

Paces final words in yesterday’s prog notes were ‘Well get there’ The big question therefore is Get where and when ?

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by Paul Waine » Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:25 am

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:36 am
I have no doubt he is invested but no more or less so than other Chairman. The extent to which he has invested financially is open to conjecture because I don't think anyone knows. Looking at his CV the sums involved seem very large for someone who was a divisional Director of an investment bank prior to coming to the club, particularly, the £68 million to the former owners.
Hi Pete, you are misrepresenting Alan Pace's positions at Citibank, "Global Head of..." is a lot more accurate that "divisional Director." Of course, his strategy with ALK Capital and Velocity Sports Partners is to create the opportunity for a number of people to take a stake in Burnley Football Club.

Football has become much more expensive over the years. Although Mike Garlick and John B (and the other directors) sold their shares for £180 million, I don't think any of them paid more than £10 million for their shares when they bought into the club. It's reasonable that, as an individual, Alan Pace has invested more than £10 million of his own money, alongside, bringing in the other ALK Capital leadership group plus Velocity Sports Partnership. Vlad Torgovik, the new director who joined the club last summer has 5% of the shares. It's not unreasonable to think that he also has bought those shares for £10 million, depending on where BFC was valued in summer 2023.

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by Jamesy » Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:26 am

FCBurnley wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:16 am
Paces final words in yesterday’s prog notes were ‘Well get there’ The big question therefore is Get where and when ?
He was upbeat in yesterday’s programme notes. This is to soften us up a little before the season ticket not so early bird prices are announced.

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by ClaretPete001 » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:31 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:25 am
Hi Pete, you are misrepresenting Alan Pace's positions at Citibank, "Global Head of..." is a lot more accurate that "divisional Director." Of course, his strategy with ALK Capital and Velocity Sports Partners is to create the opportunity for a number of people to take a stake in Burnley Football Club.

Football has become much more expensive over the years. Although Mike Garlick and John B (and the other directors) sold their shares for £180 million, I don't think any of them paid more than £10 million for their shares when they bought into the club. It's reasonable that, as an individual, Alan Pace has invested more than £10 million of his own money, alongside, bringing in the other ALK Capital leadership group plus Velocity Sports Partnership. Vlad Torgovik, the new director who joined the club last summer has 5% of the shares. It's not unreasonable to think that he also has bought those shares for £10 million, depending on where BFC was valued in summer 2023.
Hi Paul, I think it tends to be a matter of opinion. My point is really there is little evidence to suggest where AP gets his money from other than conjecture. It's not like the Glazers or most of the other PL owners.

I'm reliably informed by the t'internet Alan Pace was global head of securities services sales. I mean the global becomes somewhat superfluous if the bank is global and it is. As far as I understand it Securities Services is one division of CitiBank and therefore referring to him as a divisional director is probably more accurate than a Global Head of 'whatever'. I guess it's a matter of opinion.

The point is there is little evidence of the kind of money that can spend 10s of millions on buying a club. I don't doubt he has more money than me and most, if not all, on here.

You do go through quite some contortions to defend Alan Pace but you seem to be forgetting Mike Garlick bought a club entering it's third year in the Championship whereas Alan Pace bought one with a number of seasons in the PL behind it. Consequently, he bought a club valued at £200 million and Mike Garlick didn't.

All the rest of it is conjecture, we don't know what AP put into the deal, or what Vlad Torgovik paid or indeed who funded the £68 million to the former owners or the 'bridging loan' to pay off the initial loan MSD. My point has always been look at the common sense business realities and what is known and perhaps rely less on conjecture.

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:22 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:31 pm
Hi Paul, I think it tends to be a matter of opinion. My point is really there is little evidence to suggest where AP gets his money from other than conjecture. It's not like the Glazers or most of the other PL owners.
He would have been earning a million + per year at CB, plus his investments. By most standards he is wealthy, I suspect the 10-15 million wouldn't have been a problem

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:27 pm

I'll add, some of the TOP positions at CB are $14 million + but I don't know how far up that chain he was. He wasn't earning 30k per year that's for certain

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by ClaretPete001 » Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:42 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:22 pm
He would have been earning a million + per year at CB, plus his investments. By most standards he is wealthy, I suspect the 10-15 million wouldn't have been a problem
By most standards he is wealthy but not by PL standards. No, I'm sure that he could scrape together £10 - £15 million with the others involved perhaps a £3-£4 million each maybe but I wouldn't have thought any normal person on that kind of income would want to be exposed for much more.

Then there is the £68 million to the former owners etc. or who funded the loan to pay off MSD. Too many unknowns for me and no one has really been able to properly explain them or conjectured on the side of caution.

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:44 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:42 pm
By most standards he is wealthy but not by PL standards. No, I'm sure that he could scrape together £10 - £15 million with the others involved perhaps a £3-£4 million each maybe but I wouldn't have thought any normal person on that kind of income would want to be exposed for much more.

Then there is the £68 million to the former owners etc. or who funded the loan to pay off MSD. Too many unknowns for me and no one has really been able to properly explain them or conjectured on the side of caution.
yep, fair enough mate.
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Re: Alan Pace

Post by ClaretPete001 » Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:45 pm

I mean Kilby was worth a few bob and the fuss he made over a couple of million for the ITV Digit saga rumbled on for years.

These people have big houses, properties, big cars, pensions, investments etc and the one thing I do know having met a few is they don't like spending their own money.

btw apologies to BK a very good Chairman of the club but just making a point.

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by bfcmik » Mon Mar 04, 2024 6:24 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:36 am
Looking at his CV the sums involved seem very large for someone who was a divisional Director of an investment bank prior to coming to the club, particularly, the £68 million to the former owners.
Didn't he own, or Chair, the Salt Lake City MLS team before coming over here?

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:11 pm

bfcmik wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 6:24 pm
Didn't he own, or Chair, the Salt Lake City MLS team before coming over here?
you mean Dave Checketts (Pace ran Salt Lake City briefly for him - a couple of years)- his ownership record in NHL and MLS - it has been discussed in detail on the takeover thread amongst others - suffice to say the NHK took his franchise off him for lack of funds, at Salt Lake the partner investor he brought in - forced him to sell um because of his lack of funds

the original group of 7 - Pace, Smith, Hunt, Morgan, Dewey, Checketts, Dávila will have put the front money up - of which only £10m is traceable in paying for shares- though there will have been substantial fees to the various brokers and advisory services involved as I have mentioned in the past - having named a number of them

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by dougcollins » Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:12 pm

Sundays may be awkward for Alan.

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by Tackler49 » Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:22 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:23 am
Fighting amongst themselves? One isolated incident yesterday?
What about those when we played Arsenal fans frustrations are boiling over, how long before fans start chanting for VK to be sacked at matches it’s truly unbelievable how things have been allowed to get to this and poor we have become it’s like the blind leading the blind

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Re: Alan Pace

Post by Nori1958 » Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:36 pm

Tackler49 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:22 pm
What about those when we played Arsenal fans frustrations are boiling over, how long before fans start chanting for VK to be sacked at matches it’s truly unbelievable how things have been allowed to get to this and poor we have become it’s like the blind leading the blind
Sorry, I wasn't aware of fighting at the arsenal game, whereabouts?

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