Notts Forest: do you now have hope we will survive?

[Sutton-Claret]

The other thing to remember is that Forest will now go on an Everton style run of wins in an effort to show everyone how 'hard done' they've been....

[hetheclaret]

People who make up these “tables if VAR worked” seem to forget to include decisions where it went for us such as WHU away.

Edit - in fact did it even get used for that penalty they should have had at the end?

It's also the most pointless exercise - decisions will never, ever be overturned so get over it and move on.

[dsr]

People who make up these “tables if VAR worked” seem to forget to include decisions where it went for us such as WHU away.

Edit - in fact did it even get used for that penalty they should have had at the end?

Yes, it was used, an in accordance with the current rules of handball the penalty was not given. Both referee and VAR man agreed.

[JarrowClaret]

No I don’t. What does annoy me though, is without the VAR farces, the table would look like:

16. Everton 25pts (with a further deduction to come)
17. Luton 21pts
18. Burnley 21pts
19. Forest 20pts
20. Sheff U 14pts

Then I’d think we had a chance.

We’ll go down and, just like last time where Kruhl’s double fist punch on Vydra sent us down, a blatant block/obstruction without challenging for the ball, will do it this time. So annoying.

What about other clubs var cock ups? Forest especially, Should we have conceded a penalty against Brentford which could have meant we conceded an equaliser?

[Darnhill Claret]

We do know that when obstruction was 'a thing' that it was NOT a penalty offence. It resulted in an indirect free kick, even if committed in the penalty area.

[Peter Loo]

No for me.

Yes of course but it must also give everyone else down there some hope as well.

[Stan Tastic]

One point people need to remember about the disallowed goal against Forest back in September. There was 22 minutes played after the disallowed goal which was ample time for Forest to have scored an equalizer had the goal been allowed. The resulting kick-off instead of the offside free-kick would change the remaining pattern of play.

[CrosspoolClarets]

One point people need to remember about the disallowed goal against Forest back in September. There was 22 minutes played after the disallowed goal which was ample time for Forest to have scored an equalizer had the goal been allowed. The resulting kick-off instead of the offside free-kick would change the remaining pattern of play.

Look, this is true, but keen as we all are to slate our own team (who do lose a lot of leads), on that occasion, and I had a plum seat watching it, we were dominant and Forest had “gone”. Of course they may have come back, but more probably it caused a 3 point swing. The Luton game definitely did.

[Goliath]

We suddenly have better performances and strength in depth upfront with Fofana and Foster back fit with Amdouni/Rodriguez as subs. Its not beyond the realms of possibility but its still unlikely.

[IanMcL]

Give me hope Joanna.

[ClaretLoup]

We suddenly have better performances and strength in depth upfront with Fofana and Foster back fit with Amdouni/Rodriguez as subs. Its not beyond the realms of possibility but its still unlikely.

Decent point, but we need some of the others to chip in as well. Since Fofana arrived he is the only scorer bar an own goal, a penalty and two defenders, ( Al Dakhil and O'Shea)

[KateR]

NO

[Hibsclaret]

Absolutely. Lots of hope. Leicester needed snookers the year before they won the title and won 8 or so out of the last 10 games.

[Elizabeth]

Starting with Chelsea away. Similar side to West Ham form wise so no reason we can’t get something there to build on the momentum from the last couple of games.
Of course the Forest points deduction should buck us all up

[Rick_Muller]

One point people need to remember about the disallowed goal against Forest back in September. There was 22 minutes played after the disallowed goal which was ample time for Forest to have scored an equalizer had the goal been allowed. The resulting kick-off instead of the offside free-kick would change the remaining pattern of play.

Look, this is true, but keen as we all are to slate our own team (who do lose a lot of leads), on that occasion, and I had a plum seat watching it, we were dominant and Forest had “gone”. Of course they may have come back, but more probably it caused a 3 point swing. The Luton game definitely did.

For me - this is the sliding doors moment. Had that goal stood, Forest were beaten. Foster would not had been sent off, and may not have had his subsequent issues and I'm certain he would have contributed to better performances following that game.

We would ultimately have had a better start to the season, so yes - that is a key VAR moment that was wrong and I don't think any other clubs can identify anything similar at all.

I would honestly go as far to say we wouldn't be in the relegation zone now had that decision not gone against us - obviously I cant prove that, it's just a gut feeling.

[Jakubclaret]

What about other clubs var cock ups? Forest especially, Should we have conceded a penalty against Brentford which could have meant we conceded an equaliser?

Or the toney equaliser which in some quarters was deemed soft. You'd literally be at it all day if you was to analyse all the bottom teams & all the season games from the start looking at all the controversial moments over the course of the 90 what could & should have happened here & there & you still wouldn't get everybody agreeing on everything. The fact is all the teams experience good & bad luck not far off equal measure.

[Darnhill Claret]

Think Wolves have had a few bad ones, the one that sticks in my mind is of course at Man U when Utd's keeper should have received a red.

[JarrowClaret]

Or the toney equaliser which in some quarters was deemed soft. You'd literally be at it all day if you was to analyse all the bottom teams & all the season games from the start looking at all the controversial moments over the course of the 90 what could & should have happened here & there & you still wouldn't get everybody agreeing on everything. The fact is all the teams experience good & bad luck not far off equal measure.

Which was my point just get on with it if we go down it has nothing to do with VAR it will be because of our own deficiencies much more than VAR.

[dougcollins]

Or the toney equaliser which in some quarters was deemed soft. You'd literally be at it all day if you was to analyse all the bottom teams & all the season games from the start looking at all the controversial moments over the course of the 90 what could & should have happened here & there & you still wouldn't get everybody agreeing on everything. The fact is all the teams experience good & bad luck not far off equal measure.

Toney never touched the ball - it was Muric he put into the net.

[Jakubclaret]

Toney never touched the ball - it was Muric he put into the net.

I've seen them given.

[morninbob]

Or the toney equaliser which in some quarters was deemed soft. You'd literally be at it all day if you was to analyse all the bottom teams & all the season games from the start looking at all the controversial moments over the course of the 90 what could & should have happened here & there & you still wouldn't get everybody agreeing on everything. The fact is all the teams experience good & bad luck not far off equal measure.

Which quarters ? He fore armed him in the face while muric had both feet off the ground.

[JarrowClaret]

I've seen them given.

No doubt but it would have been wrongly given

[Jakubclaret]

Which quarters ? He fore armed him in the face while muric had both feet off the ground.

Both jumped it was a flailing arm I've seen it.

[Jakubclaret]

No doubt but it would have been wrongly given

I agree. It's a lack of consistency.

[Big Vinny K]

I've seen them given.

Which game have you seen a goal given where the striker knocks over the keeper after leading with his arm ?
Try to exclude the pre 1980s if you can.

[boatshed bill]

The fact is all the teams experience good & bad luck not far off equal measure.

So this is a fact , then?

[Carlos the Great]

We are on a 1 game winning streak so it’s quite possible we gonna stay up now

[Jakubclaret]

So this is a fact , then?

Roughly yes unless you can name 1 team that experiences all the bad luck without giving examples of any good luck. I know it's a common belief especially on here that we are hard done by but in reality we are architectures of our own downfall. VAR didn't decide that we didn't sign Andros Townsend, VAR didn't decide to start trafford every game, VAR didn't decide to spend the budget on players not suitable for the PL, VAR didn't decide to select the wrong players & tactics.

[boatshed bill]

Roughly yes unless you can name 1 team that experiences all the bad luck without giving examples of any good luck. I know it's a common belief especially on here that we are hard done by but in reality we are architectures of our own downfall. VAR didn't decide that we didn't sign Andros Townsend, VAR didn't decide to start trafford every game, VAR didn't decide to spend the budget on players not suitable for the PL, VAR didn't decide to select the wrong players & tactics.

No, is it a fact or not.

[Jakubclaret]

No, is it a fact or not.

By all means crack on if you want to blame VAR for all our woes & pretty much everything that happens under the sun I'm not stopping you.

[boatshed bill]

By all means crack on if you want to blame VAR for all our woes & pretty much everything that happens under the sun I'm not stopping you.

You've just said that, not me.
You said it's a fact that these things even themselves out. Back that up with some facts, I really want to believe you.

[Longsider]

Yes

[Jakubclaret]

You've just said that, not me.
You said it's a fact that these things even themselves out. Back that up with some facts, I really want to believe you.

You want me to go through every single game we've played & point out where we've benefited? Remember there's still some games left the season isn't over. It's not every season 2 teams get docked points & them teams are in & around the relegation zone it's not anybody's elses fault we are so atrocious we haven't capitalised upon that saying that maybe we will. You can get thrown lifelines but at some point you need to grab that lifeline yourself.

[boatshed bill]

You want me to go through every single game we've played & point out where we've benefited? Remember there's still some games left the season isn't over. It's not every season 2 teams get docked points & them teams are in & around the relegation zone it's not anybody's elses fault we are so atrocious we haven't capitalised upon that saying that maybe we will. You can get thrown lifelines but at some point you need to grab that lifeline yourself.

Not just our games.
This "evens itself out" thing gets trawled out year on year to the point where people believe it as fact. Is it a fact as you claim it to be?

[Jakubclaret]

Not just our games.
This "evens itself out" thing gets trawled out year on year to the point where people believe it as fact. Is it a fact as you claim it to be?

On the balance of law of averages it isn't far out unless you've got an agenda & are desperate to excuse another sinister reason such as incompetencey on a epic scale.

[CrosspoolClarets]

For me - this is the sliding doors moment. Had that goal stood, Forest were beaten. Foster would not had been sent off, and may not have had his subsequent issues and I'm certain he would have contributed to better performances following that game.

We would ultimately have had a better start to the season, so yes - that is a key VAR moment that was wrong and I don't think any other clubs can identify anything similar at all.

I would honestly go as far to say we wouldn't be in the relegation zone now had that decision not gone against us - obviously I cant prove that, it's just a gut feeling.

Mine too.

I’m sure Lyle has spent many a moment wondering the same thing, poor guy. None of us know what would have happened with him, and it is inappropriate to speculate, but clearly that frustrated red card won't have helped.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

I think if we play like last week, we’ll end up on 33 pts. Not enough in a regular year but with the points deductions I think that’ll squeak it.

Whether we play that well again is another conversation

[CnBtruntru]

One always has hope, but not a cat in hells chance we survive.

[equinox]

I'm going to boil it all down to one game, Chelsea away.

Have we got it in us to get a result?

[the_great_orange_one]

It is the hope that kills you!

Almost think we probably do not want to survive. Mass clear out and start again post drop.

What do we do if we stay up? Another £100m on players that may not deliver. Exactly how Sunderland ended up dropping like a stone, scrapped survival too many times.

[summitclaret]

'What do we do if we stay up? Another £100m on players that may not deliver. Exactly how Sunderland ended up dropping like a stone, scrapped survival too many times."

Bring in 2 experienced players, for modest fees if possible/necessary. One being a tall/strong defensive cm to sit in front of the back 4 like Cork used to do. The other someone like Craig Dawson at cb.

Then play Berge and probably Cullen (or an upgrade) to make it 3 in cm and try to ensure that we are still in games in the last quarter.

Be ruthless in clearing out the many players that we no longer need. In particular reduce the number of wingers and centre backs. Some will obviously have to be loaned out if we can't sell.

Get Odobert back on the wing, hopefully with Kolo.

All of those out of contract should leave, except Taylor (is ooc?). If Josh won't sign a new one, I'd sell him this Summer.

Sort out the ridiculous gaps in the squad at full back.

As regards JT, I'd loan him out to a team likely to be pushing for promotion from the Championship, to rebuild the confidence that VK has trashed and get a very experienced keeper as short term back up to Muric.

Try and get Fofana on a season long loan.

[jurek]

The Forest point deduction doesn't change our scenario that much.
It gives us a tad more hope but that could soon evaporate if Forest win their next game
and we lose at Chelsea.
Hope will remain if Forest per chance lose and if we get something at Chelsea even if it's just one point.
And there's still a chance Everton may lose a few more points too.
But we'll need a minimum of 4 points from our next two games to keep the fires of hope flickering.
And we'll probably need to beat Everton away as well.

We can all still dream that we'll take it to the last game at home to Forest but
we all know that's highly unlikely.

[Falcon]

I imagine it gives Luton more hope than us.

I've accepted we are 99% likely to be relegated and I just want them to show some grit, fight and gumption for the remaining fixtures. If we get to the last game with a chance at survival I'd be delighted of course.

[Bobzuruncle]

If, by some miracle, we do manage to survive then our form going into next season would be phenomenal and given that the current fixture generator system seems to put teams together at roughly the same time each year I think we would need to be.

[Bin Ont Turf]

We haven't looked like staying up since October. It's been a right shocker.

It would be equally embarrassing and hilarious if we did stay up.