Booing the knee

[yTib]

Why? Surely that's perfectly reasonable?

it sure is. a bit like 'drink responsibly' is reasonable on a can of spesh.

[yTib]

it doesn't actually affect anything.

[morpheus2]

Sorry, allegory flys over my head like balls slip under Muric's feet.

[Rowls]

Some people think tackling racism is important. Ditto social cohesion and good race relations.

So there's every reason in the world to stop making the BLM gesture.

[helmclaret]

To keep saying it’s a BLM gesture is ridiculous. Although no doubt The Telegraph and Daily Mail will tell you that.

Yes, originally it was linked to whatever that organisation is, but ultimately its about anti racism and equality. If you want to keep banging on about BLM well I guess that’s up to you.

[Burnley1989]

An unjust reputation in my opinion.

It really isn’t, I go the game with a 9-10 other lads I’ve known and grown up with in your rougher estates of Burnley, we all meet for 4-5 beers, most sit in separate stands but some have views I disagree with. Anybody who thinks northern towns like Burnley don’t have strong differing views which are getting worse are deluded. It’s all down to what you interpret as racism and what’s just opinion.

[Rowls]

To keep saying it’s a BLM gesture is ridiculous. Although no doubt The Telegraph and Daily Mail will tell you that.

Yes, originally it was linked to whatever that organisation is, but ultimately its about anti racism and equality. If you want to keep banging on about BLM well I guess that’s up to you.

It was the PFA who said it was to support BLM. Not any newspaper.

We're entitled to differ but given that the PFA said it WAS to support BLM, I think the ridiculous claim is the one saying that taking the knee is "nothing to do with BLM".

It's fine if we disagree on this Helm. People can decide for themselves whether the PFA intended to support BLM when they issued a press release saying so and adopted the BLM stance.

[helmclaret]

Originally it was linked to BLM. It isn’t anymore.

That’s my point.

All the banners before the game today clearly said ‘no room for racism.’

[yTib]

whether it's BLM, LBGTQ, RSPCA or the scouts i reckon the baby was washed down with that bathwater years ago.

get that bugger back and let's get back to common fucing sense.

[Rowls]

Originally it was linked to BLM. It isn’t anymore.

That’s my point.

All the banners before the game today clearly said ‘no room for racism.’

But that's not what the PFA claim. They claim it was never in support of BLM, in spite of their press release saying otherwise.

In short, they're trying to change their story even though it's online for us to view.

Having this debate previously, I christened the kind of argument you're putting forward as the "Paolo Di Canio," defence. Di Canio famously claimed that making Nazi salutes wasn't a show of support for Nazism.

People like yourself want to claim that the BLM stance of taking the knee isn't a show of support for BLM.

Frankly, this comes across as a terribly weak argument. The gesture is very strongly linked with the movement.

[evensteadiereddie]

No we didn't. It's just thiese righteous types that have to look for something. Hoping they hear a boo. Its pathetic.

Don't be silly, there was booing in the CFS.
Luckily, applause too.

[helmclaret]

I can’t defend the incompetence of the FA. I’m all for anti racism and equality. I guess some people have an issue with those things and have the right to boo.

[Rowls]

The best time to stop making the gesture would have been the day they realised what an error they had made by endorsing BLM.

Unfortunately, the PFA, FA et al instead decided to obfuscate about what they'd said and they continued to compound their error by insisting on this ridiculous charade that taking the BLM stance is "nothing to do with BLM".

We missed the best day to stop making the gesture but the next best day for them to stop making it will always be 'today'.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

How about footballers just sticking to football.

[morpheus2]

Anyhows.. as we are being gifted with this window of opportunity to express contrary opinions of politics whilst the blue haired moderators are busy on facebook and X or whatever deleting views and putting the world to rights - It is unusual to be given this platform to execute freedom of speech before this thread is deleted in good old fascistic fashion, I would enjoy the right to say that I do not agree with this bending of the knee. Amen

[helmclaret]

How about footballers just sticking to football.

Why should they?

[yTib]

How about footballers just sticking to football.

again, agreed broadly but there must be examples of sport being politicised.

jesse owens being an obvious example.

[Rowls]

I can’t defend the incompetence of the FA. I’m all for anti racism and equality. I guess some people have an issue with those things and have the right to boo.

I am a very vocal critic of BLM (and even more vocally critical of the support leant to BLM by the football authorities) precisely because I am all for tackling racism and promoting equality.

BLM.do not share our values. BLM sow division and discrimination. This is the problem. This is why they should not have been endorsed.

[Shaggy]

Seems there’s a few people who like to use the knee to deliberately cause arguments. Another reason why it should be dropped.

Efforts should be going into Kick if out instead.

[Sheedyclaret]

Load of nonsense just get on with the football what we pay to see

[Rowls]

again, agreed broadly but there must be examples of sport being politicised.

jesse owens being an obvious example.

It's true. There isnt a perfectly clear line that can ever be drawn in the sand.

But we did have a clear understanding that overt political statements could bog be made. The one exception was the poppy appeal which was because of the immense sacrifices made in two world wars.

The British Legion and BLM shouldn't ever have had to uttered in the same sentence IMO but the PFA and the FA to their eternal shame thought they were comparably worthy of breaking the rule of 'no politics in football'.

[helmclaret]

Anti racism and equality are human rights in my book, not political at all.

[Rowls]

Seems there’s a few people who like to use the knee to deliberately cause arguments. Another reason why it should be dropped.

Efforts should be going into Kick if out instead.

When you promote an organisation as divisive and extreme as BLM you are simply asking for these kind of debates.

It's precisely why I was (and remain, let's be honest) so scathing about this decision and the continued obfuscation and gaslighting in the risible pretence that taking the knee "isn't anything to do with BLM".

Especially when the PFA press release stating they were taking the knee in support if BLM is still there online for anyone who wants to Google it.

The metaphor is smoother than a babies backside from over-use but this is real Winston Smith stuff. In this instance they have even bothered to take the press release down and pretend they never said it.

[yTib]

It's true. There isnt a perfectly clear line that can ever be drawn in the sand.

you could use that argument about the offside rule.

but seriously, i really miss common sense.

[Rowls]

you could use that argument about the offside rule.

but seriously, i really miss common sense.

It's not often we find common cause.

[yTib]

It's not often we find common cause.

don't get carried away

[Rowls]

Anti racism and equality are human rights in my book, not political at all.

A good 99.9% of people would agree. Which is why nobody complained about the Kick it Out campaign.

But would anyone in the universe have the nerve to describe BLM as "not political at all"?

Of course they wouldn't. That's the problem.

[Rowls]

don't get carried away

Must be the shandy going to my head

[helmclaret]

I don’t support BLM but keep banging on about them please.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Why should they?

I buy a ticket to watch a game of football, not to see a political/social stance others want to take.

[addisclaret]

Must be the shandy going to my head

I try to stick to shandy these days as well.

Unfortunately I make it with special brew so it's still about 7.5% ABV

[Rowls]

I don’t support BLM but keep banging on about them please.

I will decry taking the BLM stance until the charade stops.

When I originally posted against this in the middle of the mass hysteria in favour of BLM i was called all the names under the sun and had the worst kind of accusations thrown at me for voicing the opinions I have posted here tonight with little to no pushback whatsoever (you and I are essentially splitting hairs and even if we disagree slightly it's polite and amicable).

People also queued up to post their own support for BLM and what they stand for.

That's all stopped now.

So I am happy to continue until the charade stops completely.

There's a big lesson for everybody to learn about what happens in times if mass hysteria.

[helmclaret]

I buy a ticket to watch a game of football, not to see a political/social stance others want to take.

But you’re allowed to voice an opinion on it?

[helmclaret]

I will decry taking the BLM stance until the charade stops.

When I originally posted against this in the middle of the mass hysteria in favour of BLM i was called all the names under the sun and had the worst kind of accusations thrown at me for voicing the opinions I have posted here tonight with little to no pushback whatsoever (you and I are essentially splitting hairs and even if we disagree slightly it's polite and amicable).

People also queued up to post their own support for BLM and what they stand for.

That's all stopped now.

So I am happy to continue until the charade stops completely.

There's a big lesson for everybody to learn about what happens in times if mass hysteria.

Maybe people realised what BLM was and changed their mind? You are allowed to change your view on things.

[gandhisflipflop]

Yawn

[yTib]

So I am happy to continue until the charade stops completely.

rowls, i'm afraid you will always be a target on here.

not because of your fire-brand thrust into the realm of cutting edge truth;

more because you tend to be pompous.

[Rileybobs]

Groundhog Day here. But can we all agree that the Burnley and Brighton players taking the knee today was not in support of the BLM political movement?

[Poulton-le-Claret]

But you’re allowed to voice an opinion on it?

If they want to take the knee in their own time I'll have no opinions on it. Since they are at work and I am paying to be there, I'll have an opinion on it.

[Rowls]

But you’re allowed to voice an opinion on it?

Are we allowed to boo the taking of the knee though? Seriously, can we be sure of this? Will the club permit this?

And even if the club allow it, there is still a widespread view, especially prominent in media outlets and in TV, that responding to the BLM gesture by booing is "unacceptable". Does this really represent an open right to boo the gesture or is there a strong social taboo perpetuated by the media that prevents even more people from booing the gesture?

The first question I posed is one I'm genuinely unsure of what the answer might be.

The second is purely rhetorical.

And I'm confident that if you booked taking the knee at Brighton or arsenal you'd find yourself chucked out.

[helmclaret]

Ok, please keep your opinions to yourself at work then.

[helmclaret]

Groundhog Day here. But can we all agree that the Burnley and Brighton players taking the knee today was not in support of the BLM political movement?

Haha good luck with that

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Ok, please keep your opinions to yourself at work then.

I do, I don't at football though

[Rowls]

Groundhog Day here. But can we all agree that the Burnley and Brighton players taking the knee today was not in support of the BLM political movement?

Groundhog day!

No we can't. Mainly for the following reasons.

The gesture is irrevocably linked with BLM.

The PFA confirmed they were making the gesture specifically in support of BLM. Their press release saying so is still available online.

[Rileybobs]

If they want to take the knee in their own time I'll have no opinions on it. Since they are at work and I am paying to be there, I'll have an opinion on it.

You pay to watch the match. They take the knee before the match starts. Your point doesn’t make sense.

[helmclaret]

Yeah, but it isn’t done in association with BLM anymore. Absolutely no reference to BLM at the ground today.

[Rileybobs]

Groundhog day!

No we can't. Mainly for the following reasons.

The gesture is irrevocably linked with BLM.

The PFA confirmed they were making the gesture specifically in support of BLM. Their press release is still available online.

Were the Burnley and Brighton players today taking the knee in support of the political movement BLM? Simple question.

[Rowls]

You pay to watch the match. They take the knee before the match starts. Your point doesn’t make sense.

An incredibly weak argument.

"Today's sporting event will be preceded by a series of political rallies. Those who do not want to listen or witness these please cover your ears a d close you eyes until 3pm precisely."

[Rileybobs]

An incredibly weak argument.

"Today's sporting event will be preceded by a series of political rallies. Those who do not want to listen or witness these please cover your ears a d close you eyes until 3pm precisely."

It’s not an argument, it’s a question. Care to answer?

[AlargeClaret]

Was there really any booing at all when the players took the knee ? All I heard JHL was brief almost apologetic clapping . I’d no idea this was still a thing . I don’t agree but would never boo the gesture .

[helmclaret]

‘An incredibly weak argument…’

Like everyone who has a different view to you?