ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:57 am

bartons baggage wrote:

Some good points, BB. And footballers, like the rest of us, age as each season passes. Some guy called Ronaldo scored a hat trick last night - age 33 years. I think it's a little more complicated than age when they transfer in plus length of contract. I'm sure we are looking to add to the squad so that we can stay in the Premier League - and not just for one or two more seasons. If our activities in the market enable us to do that we should not be looking at transfer targets necessarily with a re-sale value eye.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:00 am

bartons baggage wrote:

Resale value is always of secondary importance to us in the Premier League. We cant spend all the money we've get in the Premier League as it is without our wages/turnover ratio becoming unsustainable. We dont need more money we cant afford to spend.

Im not in the least bit surprised we are being quoted 30 million plus for the pair. We're talking players with the thick end of 300 premier league games between them and who are (on paper) in the prime of their careers.

Im a little wary pf both for different reasons, but Dyche knows best (especially when it comes to defenders) and if these really are the two he wants then in the absence of a release clause it was always going to take this sort of sum. Its the price of going for "better the devil you know" players (a strategy that has served us well recently).

ArmchairDetective · Post by **ArmchairDetective** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:04 am

According to my sauce, both Dawson and J Rod are keen to move. Dawson has handed in a transfer request and has bought a house next to Jack Cork.

Zom Zom · Post by **Zom Zom** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:05 am

Paul Waine wrote:Some good points, BB. And footballers, like the rest of us, age as each season passes. Some guy called Ronaldo scored a hat trick last night - age 33 years. I think it's a little more complicated than age when they transfer in plus length of contract. I'm sure we are looking to add to the squad so that we can stay in the Premier League - and not just for one or two more seasons. If our activities in the market enable us to do that we should not be looking at transfer targets necessarily with a re-sale value eye.

I agree. Surely the resale value would be massively offset by remaining in the top flight? It's not a concern to me, unless we drop down of course. It's all about risks.

AGENT_CLARET · Post by **AGENT_CLARET** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:11 am

30 million and Charlie Taylor will see this deal go through next week

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:12 am

bartons baggage wrote:

These are two seasoned PL players. £25m for two Championship players, Hendrick & Wood, nobody bads an eye but then folk expect us to get these two 28 year old hardened pros and they are up in arms.
The price goes up every year, live with it. They are worth £35m, not that I think we’ll pay that much.
Anybody else and you are taking a massive gamble

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:13 am

piston broke wrote:These are two seasoned PL players. £25m for two Championship players, Hendrick & Wood, nobody bads an eye but then folk expect us to get these two 28 year old hardened pros and they are up in arms.
The price goes up every year, live with it. They are worth £35m, not that I think we’ll pay that much.
Anybody else and you are taking a massive gamble

Wasn't Defour around about Jay and Dawson's age,in their prime get them signed....Quick!

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:24 am

AGENT_CLARET wrote:30 million and Charlie Taylor will see this deal go through next week

Do you ever get bored of spouting sh!t?

Just like get a job or a girlfriend or something.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:26 am

piston broke wrote:These are two seasoned PL players. £25m for two Championship players, Hendrick & Wood, nobody bads an eye but then folk expect us to get these two 28 year old hardened pros and they are up in arms.
The price goes up every year, live with it. They are worth £35m, not that I think we’ll pay that much.
Anybody else and you are taking a massive gamble

Seasoned or not they played in a relegated team last season , West Brom shouldn’t be the ones calling the shots

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:28 am

joey13 wrote:Seasoned or not they played in a relegated team last season , West Brom shouldn’t be the ones calling the shots

Yes they should because they are contracted.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:36 am

AGENT_CLARET wrote:30 million and Charlie Taylor will see this deal go through next week

I'm surprised you still act like you know more than everyone else given the fact you got exposed a few weeks ago for having a worse strike rate than Lukas Jutkiewicz

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:49 am

AGENT_CLARET wrote:30 million and Charlie Taylor will see this deal go through next week

If you say so . Maybe that newcastle player we have signed will replace taylor

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:53 am

joey13 wrote:Seasoned or not they played in a relegated team last season , West Brom shouldn’t be the ones calling the shots

Relegation has nothing to do with it.
Heaton, Pope, Gudmonsson all got relegated from the Championship. WBA, as the selling club, have the right to hold out for whatever they think they are worth. If you think we can dictate terms because we are still in the Prem, you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:06 pm

£25m + add one to £30m and/or a player.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:09 pm

Wouldn't like to see Charlie used as a make weight in any deal.
Did a good job when he covered for Ward.

One for the near future.

AGENT_CLARET · Post by **AGENT_CLARET** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:37 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Do you ever get bored of spouting sh!t?

Just like get a job or a girlfriend or something.

I just love a BIG MOUTH keyboard warrior

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:39 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:Relegation has nothing to do with it.
Heaton, Pope, Gudmonsson all got relegated from the Championship. WBA, as the selling club, have the right to hold out for whatever they think they are worth. If you think we can dictate terms because we are still in the Prem, you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

Relegation has nothing to do with it .
Ok then

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:45 pm

JayRod joined WBA last season - when Burnley were also interested. The deciding factor - so we are led to understand - was wages; WBA offered much more.. It's probably true of other WBA player, also.

So, maybe WBA don't value the pounds as much as it is valued in Burnley. Maybe £35 million means the same as £25 million to Burnley....

No worries: WBA were relegated, their revenue will be down for this coming season - more so, if they can't get back up. They need to sell players - which, of course, works against their need to "bounce back." Relegation clauses in contracts means (some) players are now making less than they were last season.

It will all work out: either there is a deal between the two clubs, or there isn't. The players wanting to move puts the "ball in WBA's onion bag" at this stage.

And, I think all Premier League players are now all used to the idea that it is a squad game and not everyone will make the starting XI every week or the bench - but they still get paid very well as part of the squad.

UTC

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:08 pm

joey13 wrote:Relegation has nothing to do with it .
Ok then

So you are blaming Albions relegation on Dawson & JRod? ********.
Poor signings, poor management and poor attitude but the baggies fans have nothing but praise for these two.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:26 pm

piston broke wrote:So you are blaming Albions relegation on Dawson & JRod? ********.
Poor signings, poor management and poor attitude but the baggies fans have nothing but praise for these two.

Not at all , if relegation has nothing to do with it , why do Jay and Dawson want transfers ?

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:38 pm

AGENT_CLARET wrote:I just love a BIG MOUTH keyboard warrior

Shame you don't have the same feelings for the truth or reality.

AGENT_CLARET · Post by **AGENT_CLARET** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:45 pm

Goobs wrote:Shame you don't have the same feelings for the truth or reality.

I said Jay rod will sign and I also said a Newcastle player will sign........the transfer window is still open so just WAIT AND SEE before you judge

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:52 pm

bartons baggage wrote: If they both sign at 35m and we stay in the prem for the length of their contracts,then resale value will be of no consequence. We need players who can hit the ground running, as well as players who are young and hungry to do well. The latter will be the money makers through resale value.

It could be that I'm being too much of a spend thrift in respect to the prospect of us having to pay an extra £10m to secure the services of Jay and Dawson. Or maybe not.

It's all well and good to quote the fantastic sum of money we get for staying in the premier league, but we played last season in the premier league and posted a profit of £22m. And that was on the back of two transfer windows where we didn't really spend that much (taking into account the fees we received for the players we sold). Granted, our league position and our Europa participation will increase our revenue, but our wage bill has also gone up.

To put things in perspective £10m is nearly half our profit for the year ending June 2017 or slightly less than the £10.6m that we paid for our swanky new training centre or the equivalent of another player. It's easy to say pay £35m, its only £10m more, but in my eyes £10m is a metric crap ton of money.

"But they will improve us and help us stay in the Premier league"

I get it, I really do get it. Staying in the EPL has to be our primary objective from both a competitive and a financial stand point. Bringing in players who will strengthen the squad and consequently our chances of staying in the EPL is something we should be doing.

Long Time Lurker wrote:The problem with signing the pair of them is that any move could represent their last or penultimate contracts. Their value is not going to rise significantly and it will more than likely register a significant decrease over their years with us (age affects more than legs). Taking that onboard, signing this pair would represent a move to bolster our chances of staying in the EPL and push forward over the short term - with the expectation that we will be writing off the majority of their transfer fees in return for the revenue that accompanies staying in the EPL. The money paid to them in wages would also have to be factored into the cost.

However, we shouldn't just be looking to improve our chances for next season and the season after that. We should be looking to develop a squad that can run the course of years and stay in the EPL for a long time. Achieving that objective will take planning and younger players coming through that we can develop. It should also encourage us to think twice about spending a significant chunk of our transfer budget on another two players in the 28+ age range.

At the moment we have 22 active first team players.

Heaton 32 / Pope 26 / Lindegaard 34
Lowton 29 / Ward 32 / Taylor 24 / Bardsley 32
Mee 28 / Tarkowski 25 / Long 27
Cork 28 / Defour 30 / Hendrick 26 / Westwood 28
Brady 26 / Gudmundsson 27 / Lennon 31 / Walters 34
Wood 26 / Barnes 28 / Vokes 28 / Wells 28

14 out of those 22 have already reached the ripe old age of 28. The danger of having a team with a lot of players around the same age is that the time could come when we need to replace them all at roughly the same time. That time could be as early as 3-4 years away. The bigger problem is that we might not have enough money to do that, because we spent it all bringing them in. Having a squad that spans a wider age range should be a very important factor for consideration when it comes to transfer targets.

A number of other premier league teams have previously failed to pre-empt this particular situation to their detriment and downfall. They spent the bulk of their revenue on players to secure today at the expense of players for tommorrow.

Now, we could look to offset this scenario by bringing in the next generation of players during those 3-4 years. However, the gaffer obviously likes to work with a small core group of players and I can't see us ever going over 25 first teamers (which I support) so where would we put them?

Alternatively, we could move some players up from the development squad into the first team, except we don't have many development players who are actually on the cusp of the first team. The exceptions being O'Neill and possibly Agyei. In all fairness, with some of our more notable development players leaving us in this window, I don't think it is stretching a point to question whether we currently have a development squad that can support and contribute to our long term aspirations.

It's all well and good to say that we have younger players who will act as money makers to support the depreciation of our older players, but our younger players with good resale values are vital members of our first team. We can't afford to sell them because we don't have anyone on the conveyor belt behind them.

So while I'm certainly not averse to bringing in quality players who are in their peak years, I'm also wary about stacking our playing deck with them. If the price of bringing those players in is also considerable (club record fees) I don't think the notion of thinking again and looking at other alternatives is without merit. Especially when we could pick up some cheaper players in the 23-28 range that could be more valuable to us in the longer term.

I think it's also important to note that we haven't actually lost any players so far. We have a strong team that was good enough to finish seventh last season. The Premier league is a competition of fine margins so there is no guarantee that we will match that achievement next season, or that we won't be battling against relegation for that matter, but we have a very solid core group in place already.

We need another CB so Dawson should be on our list, whether we need an established first team starter or a player that we can develop into one is another matter. With five strikers on our books, Jay could be a quality indulgence if none of our current players are scheduled to leave. Especially when we could really use another winger and a good attacking midfielder that will challenge and support Hendrick.

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:00 pm

AGENT_CLARET wrote:I said Jay rod will sign and I also said a Newcastle player will sign........the transfer window is still open so just WAIT AND SEE before you judge

Surely if the newcastle player has been agreed etc the papers will have had hold of it by now

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:40 pm

AGENT_CLARET wrote:I said Jay rod will sign and I also said a Newcastle player will sign........the transfer window is still open so just WAIT AND SEE before you judge

You said Jay Rod had already signed weeks ago, a little bit different to saying he'll eventually sign. So you are wrong, you have been wrong every time you've pretended to be ''in the know'', I thought you might have gave up but clearly not.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:58 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:

A reasoned argument but you know that over the next 3-4 years players will come and go at every transfer window.
28 is the perfect average age. Defenders are normally at their best just older, attackers just younger.
The club will be all over this keeping the balance around where it is now but with new faces in place. The upside we really need is players coming through. It’s not happening yet but it is not an overnight turnaround.

bartons baggage · Post by **bartons baggage** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:36 pm

AGENT_CLARET wrote:30 million and Charlie Taylor will see this deal go through next week

Ward will go before Taylor.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:43 am

Re signings I thought full back from Bristol was a done deal but we still haven't got him in.I suspect we are waiting till 1st July to save on paying holiday pay

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:45 am

Wells being mentioned as a makeweight in the deal in some quarters

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:50 am

KRBFC wrote:You said Jay Rod had already signed weeks ago, a little bit different to saying he'll eventually sign. So you are wrong, you have been wrong every time you've pretended to be ''in the know'', I thought you might have gave up but clearly not.

Jay and the club have all their bits signed up and have had for some time. In principle that was all agreed at the back end of the season. It’s just the agreement between clubs to resolve now.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:56 am

MRG wrote:Jay and the club have all their bits signed up and have had for some time. In principle that was all agreed at the back end of the season. It’s just the agreement between clubs to resolve now.

But that is a big factor to any deal

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:27 am

mdd2 wrote:But that is a big factor to any deal

Absolutely, let’s just hope the power a player has when wanting out of a club works in our favour for once

bartons baggage · Post by **bartons baggage** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:48 am

randomclaret2 wrote:Wells being mentioned as a makeweight in the deal in some quarters

Yeah seen that mentioned on some moody transfer rumor sites.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:11 am

joey13 wrote:Not at all , if relegation has nothing to do with it , why do Jay and Dawson want transfers ?

The response was to your assumption that WBA shouldn't be calling the shots just because they were relegated. They are their players, of course they can call the shots. Many teams that get relegated have to tighten the budget, some are in a financial mess, but I haven't read anywhere that Albion are in that situation. You would think I expect that the players would want to stay in the Prem, but if Albion can still afford them then they are their best chance of bouncing back.

If the boot was on the other foot and we had been relegated, and Albion were sniffing around our players, we would be royally ****** if we lost 2 of our best players who are still under contract. We wouldn't in a situation where we have to sell to meet ffp, neither are they.

AGENT_CLARET · Post by **AGENT_CLARET** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:34 pm

KRBFC wrote:You said Jay Rod had already signed weeks ago, a little bit different to saying he'll eventually sign. So you are wrong, you have been wrong every time you've pretended to be ''in the know'', I thought you might have gave up but clearly not.

Where did I write "Jay Rod had already signed" PLEASE SHOW ME

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:20 pm

A member of Jay's family was talking to a friend of mine and apparently he does really want to come back to Burnley and is prepared to take a pay cut.
Was told this yesterday and no reason to doubt what he said.

AGENT_CLARET · Post by **AGENT_CLARET** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:43 pm

TVC15 wrote:A member of Jay's family was talking to a friend of mine and apparently he does really want to come back to Burnley and is prepared to take a pay cut.
Was told this yesterday and no reason to doubt what he said.

He was on 65k a week at wba but that went to 32.5k after relegation so coming to Burnley would be a pay rise not a pay cut

but I know what you mean

Longsider · Post by **Longsider** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:54 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:Wells being mentioned as a makeweight in the deal in some quarters

I've seen the same. Makes sense. 25 million plus Wells. Would rather we off loaded Wells than Taylor if we are throwing a player into the transfer mix.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:14 pm

Would be a smart move for someone who played lass than 40 minutes all season

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:47 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:The response was to your assumption that WBA shouldn't be calling the shots just because they were relegated. They are their players, of course they can call the shots. Many teams that get relegated have to tighten the budget, some are in a financial mess, but I haven't read anywhere that Albion are in that situation. You would think I expect that the players would want to stay in the Prem, but if Albion can still afford them then they are their best chance of bouncing back.

If the boot was on the other foot and we had been relegated, and Albion were sniffing around our players, we would be royally ****** if we lost 2 of our best players who are still under contract. We wouldn't in a situation where we have to sell to meet ffp, neither are they.

Ok then so they are going to keep players who don’t want to be there

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:24 pm

joey13 wrote:Ok then so they are going to keep players who don’t want to be there

Who has said they don’t want to be there? We’ve just made a bid.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:27 pm

piston broke wrote:Who has said they don’t want to be there? We’ve just made a bid.

Ok , they would rather stay and play in the championship, fair enough

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:31 pm

The fact that it's widely reported that West Brom has turned down a first offer from us and intend to negotiate the price upwards tells you they are able to call the shots to a large extent.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:43 pm

taio wrote:The fact that it's widely reported that West Brom has turned down a first offer from us and intend to negotiate the price upwards tells you they are able to call the shots to a large extent.

They hold the contracts, of course they call the shots.
Why do folk on here get so ticked off when a club rejects our offers. It's not personal it’s business.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:00 pm

Wells off to WBA in exchange...

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:26 pm

IanMcL wrote:Wells off to WBA in exchange...

Fingers crossed. I'd chuck in Walters as well.

Hendrickxz · Post by **Hendrickxz** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:02 pm

Birmingham Mail backing this up now. More credible than previous sources I would have thought.I have a feeling something might just land right with this.

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:09 pm

Hendrickxz wrote:Birmingham Mail backing this up now. More credible than previous sources I would have thought.I have a feeling something might just land right with this.

link to article:
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/ ... r-14796500" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:13 pm

also one of the clubs interested in Rodriguez, Bournemouth, are reportedly set to pull out of the chase, preferring to concentrate on what they've already got...Wilson!

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/ ... l-14794610" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:21 pm

Hendrickxz wrote:Birmingham Mail backing this up now. More credible than previous sources I would have thought.I have a feeling something might just land right with this.

They are just repeating what the Mirror have been reporting.