Pope - coming for crosses
-
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:59 pm
- Been Liked: 403 times
- Has Liked: 77 times
Pope - coming for crosses
Catching crosses probably won us just as much points than with his saves without really realising. It kills time and the team get upfield. You dont realise it till he isnt playing. The last five today he would have claimed at least three of them. We have a top keeper on our hands.
Not a dig at Joe as he is a fine shot stopper. I just think we need to keep Pope at all costs.
Not a dig at Joe as he is a fine shot stopper. I just think we need to keep Pope at all costs.
These 10 users liked this post: dougcollins Bosscat gc14 Stayingup Braindead TVC15 northeastclaret Dark Cloud Houseclaret ClaretnGreen
-
- Posts: 2746
- Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:31 pm
- Been Liked: 668 times
- Has Liked: 2056 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Agreed. Hart doesn't get off his line enough to claim crosses and relieve pressure. Should have happened a few times today.
These 2 users liked this post: Bosscat Dark Cloud
-
- Posts: 5368
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:42 pm
- Been Liked: 1904 times
- Has Liked: 1980 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
I would have Pope in goal as soon as he is ready.
These 3 users liked this post: Bosscat northeastclaret Stayingup
-
- Posts: 30730
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
- Been Liked: 11062 times
- Has Liked: 5667 times
- Location: clue is in the title
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
100% agree, Harts done nothing much wrong but Pope is head and shoulders above him when it comes to commanding his area and taking the pressure off.
These 4 users liked this post: ClaretAL Bosscat northeastclaret Dark Cloud
-
- Posts: 4482
- Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:55 pm
- Been Liked: 1161 times
- Has Liked: 182 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
What about Popes dodgy feet though ? JH has been four perfect tbf
-
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:59 pm
- Been Liked: 403 times
- Has Liked: 77 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Our defenders dont pass it out so our keeper doesn't need to. Stick to what we are good atAlargeClaret wrote:What about Popes dodgy feet though ? JH has been four perfect tbf
This user liked this post: BFC183
-
- Posts: 4482
- Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:55 pm
- Been Liked: 1161 times
- Has Liked: 182 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Foot* even . Though don’t get me wrong Pope would have come for a couple of those crosses ( as would TH) some of them were low and awkward though
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
You don't play for England 75 times and win the PL title if you are a poor goalkeeper!
-
- Posts: 4482
- Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:55 pm
- Been Liked: 1161 times
- Has Liked: 182 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
True , it’s rare to see so many out of hands kicks these days . Though TH when last fit last season was playing more from the back when possible . Hart is high quality don’t let anyone doubt it but he plays to HIS strengthsclaretcarrot93 wrote:Our defenders dont pass it out so our keeper doesn't need to. Stick to what we are good at
-
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:59 pm
- Been Liked: 403 times
- Has Liked: 77 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Who said he was poor?Spijed wrote:You don't play for England 75 times and win the PL title if you are a poor goalkeeper!
-
- Posts: 1377
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:48 am
- Been Liked: 499 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
I'm sure Hart was playing to instructions today - imagine coming for crosses in those conditions - and the chances of dropping them?
I appreciate it's an aspect of the game where the Pope of last season was better - but who's to say what's going to happen when he comes back - bearing in mind coming for crosses in a crowd creates the possibility of an awkward landing - thinking about the circumstances of Tom's injury last season.
Personally I think the focus on Joe Hart has been disproportionate - the under performance of whichever CB pairing has been playing and the (lack of) defensive CM screen in front of them has been far more damaging.
If you look at today - one of Joe's less convincing performances but a clean sheet all the same - was because the CBs in particular and the whole defence as a unit all played well.
Pope was never exposed to this level of scrutiny last season because he was so superbly protected for the most part.
I appreciate it's an aspect of the game where the Pope of last season was better - but who's to say what's going to happen when he comes back - bearing in mind coming for crosses in a crowd creates the possibility of an awkward landing - thinking about the circumstances of Tom's injury last season.
Personally I think the focus on Joe Hart has been disproportionate - the under performance of whichever CB pairing has been playing and the (lack of) defensive CM screen in front of them has been far more damaging.
If you look at today - one of Joe's less convincing performances but a clean sheet all the same - was because the CBs in particular and the whole defence as a unit all played well.
Pope was never exposed to this level of scrutiny last season because he was so superbly protected for the most part.
These 2 users liked this post: burnleymik GodIsADeeJay81
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
He never comes for crosses,
Was very noticeable today and could have cost us
Was very noticeable today and could have cost us
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
I can imagine seeing Joe Hart's passionate celebration at the end took the edge of the win for some.
Hugging others players, perhaps they do like him after all?
Big performances from Mee, Tarky and Bardsley again, perhaps they've found some confidence in Hart?
Had the predictable Hart is the problem line rolled out a few times in foundation pre match and groans when the team was announced. We like our Tom, we want our Tom back so we won't like Joe Hart until our Tom is back in. He communicates and organises his defence.
Hugging others players, perhaps they do like him after all?
Big performances from Mee, Tarky and Bardsley again, perhaps they've found some confidence in Hart?
Had the predictable Hart is the problem line rolled out a few times in foundation pre match and groans when the team was announced. We like our Tom, we want our Tom back so we won't like Joe Hart until our Tom is back in. He communicates and organises his defence.
These 2 users liked this post: burnleymik GodIsADeeJay81
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Don't think anyone is denying Hart is a decent Keeper and a good one but... there are times Pope (and Heats) would have come for the ball with a huge shout ... but Hart doesn't ... I am sure he has lost this from his game somewhere because a younger Joe H commanded his area more tgan the current one does.Spijed wrote:You don't play for England 75 times and win the PL title if you are a poor goalkeeper!
Come on Clarers fans get behind the team they need us
UTC
-
- Posts: 6734
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:23 am
- Been Liked: 1820 times
- Has Liked: 1802 times
- Location: Yarkshire
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
I don't believe people think like that NL.
They just want to see the best team available to us, and are inclined to think that would include Pope.
They just want to see the best team available to us, and are inclined to think that would include Pope.
-
- Posts: 5101
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:19 am
- Been Liked: 1357 times
- Has Liked: 2943 times
- Location: 'Turf
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Are we playing on Good Friday?, He might get a game if we are.
This user liked this post: atlantalad
-
- Posts: 5393
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:00 pm
- Been Liked: 1658 times
- Has Liked: 404 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Had an email on Friday from Statsbomb (subscription data service) to advertise their new keeper analytics which they claim revolutionises keeper performance analysis. They had Nick Pope as the example. Interestingly it rated him one of the best at positioning (each shot they compare the position to a “perfect” position). His worst attribute was “pass to an teammate who is under immediate pressure” which ironically, obviously not due to him, is similar to the big thing that has changed this season for us, the times opponents win the ball off us within 40 yards of our goal.
If Pope is to better Hart, yes he is good at crosses, but that kind of distribution has to improve.
If Pope is to better Hart, yes he is good at crosses, but that kind of distribution has to improve.
-
- Posts: 4449
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:20 pm
- Been Liked: 1165 times
- Has Liked: 1303 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
My thoughts exactly today, thought Hart struggled with the crosses and the conditions. Poles height help us a lot last season.
-
- Posts: 2643
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:31 pm
- Been Liked: 895 times
- Has Liked: 328 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Pope our best goalie imo. Before his injury it was clear that he was working on his kicking after he'd been with the England squad judging by the improvement he was making. His positioning, claiming and holding the ball, ability to get down quickly, etc were all superb, just his distribution needed work. If he continues to work on it once fit again, hell become England no.1.
-
- Posts: 15286
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
- Been Liked: 3168 times
- Has Liked: 6770 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Isn't Hart slightly the taller?Cirrus_Minor wrote:My thoughts exactly today, thought Hart struggled with the crosses and the conditions. Poles height help us a lot last season.
-
- Posts: 4449
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:20 pm
- Been Liked: 1165 times
- Has Liked: 1303 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Yes your right by 0.05 metre (2 inch in real money), so must have longer arms or bigger hands because he seemed to just catch crosses whilst Hart tends to punch more.boatshed bill wrote:Isn't Hart slightly the taller?
-
- Posts: 5163
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:18 pm
- Been Liked: 2105 times
- Has Liked: 416 times
- Location: Burnley
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Coming for crosses like that has also injured 2 of our keepers but let’s forget about that.
This user liked this post: Archer
-
- Posts: 16934
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
- Been Liked: 6971 times
- Has Liked: 1487 times
- Location: Leeds
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Our keeper passes it out every time he gets the ball, be it long or short. Hart's distribution is far, far, far better than Pope's. His long kicks are straight and accurate and he is good with the ball at his feet under pressure. Pope is as good a shot stopper, better at coming for crosses but much worse with his feet. There's little between the players but Hart has earned the shirt and Pope will rightly have a tough time getting it back this season.claretcarrot93 wrote:Our defenders dont pass it out so our keeper doesn't need to. Stick to what we are good at
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Spot on there and let's not forget we have yet to see whether either Pope or Heaton will be the keepers they were. Krull got back to first team 'keeping but i have no idea how good he was post shoulder dislocation.bfccrazy wrote:Coming for crosses like that has also injured 2 of our keepers but let’s forget about that.
On the subject the apparent shoulder injury to Glenn Murray didn't last long did it?
-
- Posts: 15286
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
- Been Liked: 3168 times
- Has Liked: 6770 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Basically height is not the issue, it's a lot to do with confidence. Tom, although shorter, came for his share of high balls.Cirrus_Minor wrote:Yes your right by 0.05 metre (2 inch in real money), so must have longer arms or bigger hands because he seemed to just catch crosses whilst Hart tends to punch more.
Refering to BFC Crazy's post, yes it has caused serious injury to our best to goalies in decades. can't believe that we would prefer a safety first approach to catching crosses vs injury.
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Has nobody considered that one of the reason Joe doesn't come for crosses is because his confidence is low. He probably only feels safe when on his goal line. One of his main reasons for coming to us was to learn from Billy Mercer and to gain back his confidence.
I'm sure with a few more clean sheets to his name he will start to venture further out.
I'm sure with a few more clean sheets to his name he will start to venture further out.
This user liked this post: boatshed bill
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Does anyone think Hart has played with an exceptional back four in front of him for most of his career ?
He hasn't been under pressure like he is now ? Charging off his line, taking command of his area ?
He hasn't been under pressure like he is now ? Charging off his line, taking command of his area ?
-
- Posts: 15286
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
- Been Liked: 3168 times
- Has Liked: 6770 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Absolutely.gc14 wrote:Does anyone think Hart has played with an exceptional back four in front of him for most of his career ?
He hasn't been under pressure like he is now ? Charging off his line, taking command of his area ?
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
No that's true. But Pope is better coming off his line to collect crosses. I think he would have caught the ball to stop Linverpools second goalSpijed wrote:You don't play for England 75 times and win the PL title if you are a poor goalkeeper!
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Pope is a real keeper, who can do it all. Hart caused mayhem today.
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
The goalkeeping experts haven't analysed the Burnley goal today when Ryan came for a cross he wasn't favourite for and then got stuck in a mass of players.
-
- Posts: 14571
- Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
- Been Liked: 3437 times
- Has Liked: 6339 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Did Hart have a shot on target to save today?
-
- Posts: 21464
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:59 pm
- Been Liked: 8585 times
- Has Liked: 11285 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
I think the points about conditions today and risk of injury coming for high balls are very valid.
-
- Posts: 21464
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:59 pm
- Been Liked: 8585 times
- Has Liked: 11285 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
1. Apparently. No I dont remember it either.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Did Hart have a shot on target to save today?
-
- Posts: 14571
- Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
- Been Liked: 3437 times
- Has Liked: 6339 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Cheers.cricketfieldclarets wrote:1. Apparently. No I dont remember it either.
So how can anyone slate Hart when he barely had anything to do?
-
- Posts: 21464
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:59 pm
- Been Liked: 8585 times
- Has Liked: 11285 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
There were a couple of crosses he spilled and flapped at. In the conditions perhaps to be expected.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Cheers.
So how can anyone slate Hart when he barely had anything to do?
This user liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81
-
- Posts: 14571
- Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
- Been Liked: 3437 times
- Has Liked: 6339 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
So basically it's people not giving him time of day because he isn't Heaton or Pope?
Ok, makes sense now.
Ok, makes sense now.
-
- Posts: 483
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:57 pm
- Been Liked: 135 times
- Has Liked: 114 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Did Hart have a shot on target to save today?
He did....... the brilliant flick and unintentional strong header back by Mee - would have been a spectacular og.
Was not on MOD though.
-
- Posts: 7223
- Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:11 pm
- Been Liked: 2379 times
- Has Liked: 3807 times
- Location: Padiham
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Tom Heaton rarely moved out of his 6 yard box over his first season and was often criticised on here for it.
As for yesterday I think Joe was correct not to get involved with competing for most of those high balls in that atrocious weather.
Frustrating, maybe, but the defence as a unit were much better and dealt with most things more than comfortably.
Joe's kicking was top class yesterday.
As for yesterday I think Joe was correct not to get involved with competing for most of those high balls in that atrocious weather.
Frustrating, maybe, but the defence as a unit were much better and dealt with most things more than comfortably.
Joe's kicking was top class yesterday.
This user liked this post: bfcjg
-
- Posts: 5799
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
- Been Liked: 1884 times
- Has Liked: 841 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Good shot stopper but as the OP suggests the last few minutes might have been a bit more comfortable with Pope.Spijed wrote:You don't play for England 75 times and win the PL title if you are a poor goalkeeper!
-
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:54 pm
- Been Liked: 294 times
- Has Liked: 30 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Regardless of how many games he has played for England or how many league titles he has won, in my personal opinion. Nick Pope is better suited to us than Joe Hart is. As said above he is a great shot stopper but we need pressure relieving from our back four and that is where Pope made a massive difference last season. Pope should be number 1 when 100% fit. But what would football be without opinions?
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
What’s his excuse for staying on his line in the other 14 games then ? Hart came for a cross once yesterday and he dropped it.EarbyClaret wrote:I'm sure Hart was playing to instructions today - imagine coming for crosses in those conditions - and the chances of dropping them?
I appreciate it's an aspect of the game where the Pope of last season was better - but who's to say what's going to happen when he comes back - bearing in mind coming for crosses in a crowd creates the possibility of an awkward landing - thinking about the circumstances of Tom's injury last season.
Personally I think the focus on Joe Hart has been disproportionate - the under performance of whichever CB pairing has been playing and the (lack of) defensive CM screen in front of them has been far more damaging.
If you look at today - one of Joe's less convincing performances but a clean sheet all the same - was because the CBs in particular and the whole defence as a unit all played well.
Pope was never exposed to this level of scrutiny last season because he was so superbly protected for the most part.
As for Pope he may not have had as much focus on him as Hart but his stats were better than any other keeper in the league last season and as well as he was protected by our defence and midfield last year he also protected them. Commanding your area and collecting a cross is massive - not doing this or punching a ball means that the likelihood is that the ball is back with the opposition or in the back of our net.
-
- Posts: 21464
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:59 pm
- Been Liked: 8585 times
- Has Liked: 11285 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Now more than ever is time to leave one of our wingers on half way when they have set pieces.
-
- Posts: 5163
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:18 pm
- Been Liked: 2105 times
- Has Liked: 416 times
- Location: Burnley
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
I think Joe Hart not coming to catch crosses actually helps stabilise our defence.
The defenders know that Hart is not going to be rushing out so it’s their job to clear anything. There will not be any confusion of defenders expecting Hart to clear and Hart knows that he has to be ready for any shots incoming if a defender loses a header. Nobody is caught in between with Hart and our defenders all caught out trying to go for a ball.
Maybe the longer Hart plays with a solid, consistent back 4/6 (including our mids helping back) in front of him he will create an understanding of when to stick or twist. The safest option now though would be to either say “i’ll Try and punch everything” or “i’m not punching anything and it’s your job to clear” - of which he’s chosen the not punching option.
The defenders know that Hart is not going to be rushing out so it’s their job to clear anything. There will not be any confusion of defenders expecting Hart to clear and Hart knows that he has to be ready for any shots incoming if a defender loses a header. Nobody is caught in between with Hart and our defenders all caught out trying to go for a ball.
Maybe the longer Hart plays with a solid, consistent back 4/6 (including our mids helping back) in front of him he will create an understanding of when to stick or twist. The safest option now though would be to either say “i’ll Try and punch everything” or “i’m not punching anything and it’s your job to clear” - of which he’s chosen the not punching option.
This user liked this post: cricketfieldclarets
-
- Posts: 5163
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:18 pm
- Been Liked: 2105 times
- Has Liked: 416 times
- Location: Burnley
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Interestingly Bardsley shoved Lennon to the edge of the box from his usual spot covering the front post during the late corners. I don’t understand why we have our 2 smallest players on the posts defending corners.cricketfieldclarets wrote:Now more than ever is time to leave one of our wingers on half way when they have set pieces.
-
- Posts: 21464
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:59 pm
- Been Liked: 8585 times
- Has Liked: 11285 times
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
And no outlet from Harts punches and nobody to make them keep 2 or 3 extra bodies back.bfccrazy wrote:Interestingly Bardsley shoved Lennon to the edge of the box from his usual spot covering the front post during the late corners. I don’t understand why we have our 2 smallest players on the posts defending corners.
-
- Posts: 5163
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:18 pm
- Been Liked: 2105 times
- Has Liked: 416 times
- Location: Burnley
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
I did find it odd that Brighton had 3 players back when attacking the late corners when we had nobody outside our own box to actually threaten them.cricketfieldclarets wrote:And no outlet from Harts punches and nobody to make them keep 2 or 3 extra bodies back.
-
- Posts: 6734
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:23 am
- Been Liked: 1820 times
- Has Liked: 1802 times
- Location: Yarkshire
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
People have short memories if they can't remember Pope claiming the cross, falling on the ball, and staying down for 20 seconds as players cleared the area. That would have made a big difference to that pressure we suffered late on in the game yesterday.
Nobody is suggesting that Hart isn't a top level keeper, just saying that Pope is more suited to what we need. The distribution thing is a red herring, it's not exactly something we rely on - and Pope was more inclined for a quick throw out in any case, which is more likely to retain possession.
Nobody is suggesting that Hart isn't a top level keeper, just saying that Pope is more suited to what we need. The distribution thing is a red herring, it's not exactly something we rely on - and Pope was more inclined for a quick throw out in any case, which is more likely to retain possession.
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Agree that the distribution thing is exaggerated and not that important to the way we play. Plus Pope has never cost us a goal with his distribution and clear his lines very well and gets great distance.
Look at the Chelsea keeper yesterday - played it out straight to City on edge of box. Ederson makes mistakes aswell....it’s just masked with how good the rest of the team are.
Look at the Chelsea keeper yesterday - played it out straight to City on edge of box. Ederson makes mistakes aswell....it’s just masked with how good the rest of the team are.
-
- Posts: 1754
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:09 pm
- Been Liked: 445 times
- Has Liked: 187 times
- Location: Manchester
Re: Pope - coming for crosses
Nobody slating Hart at all. Calm down.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Cheers.
So how can anyone slate Hart when he barely had anything to do?
They just say Pope is better