Dyche expects tough window

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Dyche expects tough window

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:58 am

Quelle surprise...

I suppose its better than expecting to spend big and break records.

Little old Burnley...

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by gawthorpe_view » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:00 pm

That's the beauty of laminated glass.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:03 pm

Guess we will have to wait then.

Be nice if we could get a couple in handy though

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by jlup1980 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:04 pm

We're playing the little old Burnley card too often in my opinion. We're comfortably in the top 50 richest football clubs in Europe and possibly the world, yet we still make out we can't compete with Championship clubs, nevermind PL clubs!

Is this the wider issue? We need to shed the small club mentality. I'm not saying we should go and spend 100 million, but there was no reason we couldn't have spent 50 million last summer. We made a big profit on transfers the 12 months prior and got the usual TV money. We invested in Championship players and it's showing.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by IndigoLake » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:07 pm

I think our level of activity in the coming transfer window will give us an idea of his much the club wants and believes it can stay in the Premier League. It's as clear as day that the current squad with its current tactics is likely to be relegated. We've got a chance to address that.

However, I agree that it's tough because we shot ourselves in the foot when we didn't take advantage of finishing in 7th place last season. That was the perfect time to improve the squad and we failed to do that.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:08 pm

jlup1980 wrote:Is this the wider issue? We need to shed the small club mentality. I'm not saying we should go and spend 100 million, but there was no reason we couldn't have spent 50 million last summer. We made a big profit on transfers the 12 months prior and got the usual TV money. We invested in Championship players and it's showing.
Spend that much and the wage bill would rise to a level at which we can't cope. It's the wage bill that becomes the most important, not the transfer fees.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by ksrclaret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:11 pm

Garlick is a brave man if he gives Dyche any money at all to spend.

I'm going to try and ignore any interviews from Dyche about the transfer window, I can't stand the BS he comes out with anymore.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Murger » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:11 pm

Having 5 keepers on the wage bill won't help matters.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by SammyBoy » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:13 pm

I feel like we very much made our bed for this season during the summer window and it'll be difficult to turn around. That said we've got glaring weaknesses going forward so I think we should be looking at one or two buys that add some pace at the very least. However, with a few days to spare I fully expect we'll be bemoaning our luck again but "remaining hopeful we can get deals over the line".

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by NL Claret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:14 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Spend that much and the wage bill would rise to a level at which we can't cope. It's the wage bill that becomes the most important, not the transfer fees.
Before fans / utc posters get their knickers in a twist, looking at it realistically who are we going to attract within budget? As CT also points out we aren't going to bet the ranch or smash the wage structure. I'm glad we don't, be careful what you wish for. Don't have to look far to them down the road and Basket case Wanderers.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:16 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Spend that much and the wage bill would rise to a level at which we can't cope. It's the wage bill that becomes the most important, not the transfer fees.
We must have spent close to £50m on Wells, Walters and Vydra alone when you consider wages and transfer fees and between them they have contributed nothing. I will excuse Hart as he was needed, gibson as you hope he is the future and Wood as he did at least contribute last season.

However there comes a point where we need to stop confusing value and cheap.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:19 pm

Real athlete required in the Center of the park, cheap mans Kante/Doucoure type. Striker who can actually get on behind the defence. And a few more keepers.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:20 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Garlick is a brave man if he gives Dyche any money at all to spend.

I'm going to try and ignore any interviews from Dyche about the transfer window, I can't stand the BS he comes out with anymore.
The windows as big for garlick and rigg as it is Dyche...

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by ksrclaret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:21 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:The windows as big for garlick and rigg as it is Dyche...
I'm not so sure. Rigg has only been here a matter of months so surely can't have had enough time to properly exert his influence?

And Garlick has backed Dyche many times before, he's playing his part.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:22 pm

Joey Barton will be manager next season

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:22 pm

As Indigo says and as I've said recently, as tough as this transfer window is going to be, in my mind the fact remains; if we don't bring in 1-2 players good enough to bolster the starting 11, we'll go down. So I think there's going to have to be at least some speculating to accumulate in this window, if none of our main targets are available.
Last edited by FactualFrank on Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by JohnMac » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:22 pm

If we get a player with searing pace he'll still have to hang around for the rest to catch up :D

Ball winner essential for me and an old head who can use it properly. A Charlie Adam type player.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by IndigoLake » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:22 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:We must have spent close to £50m on Wells, Walters and Vydra alone when you consider wages and transfer fees and between them they have contributed nothing. I will excuse Hart as he was needed, gibson as you hope he is the future and Wood as he did at least contribute last season.

However there comes a point where we need to stop confusing value and cheap.
This is a good point. We've made too many signings that have not contributed enough. This is where I hope Mike Rigg can help but I fear that this particular window comes too soon.

I do wish we'd explore further afield. As long as we're limited by the fees of PL and even Championship players, we need to be smarter and look abroad if necessary.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by TVC15 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:23 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:We must have spent close to £50m on Wells, Walters and Vydra alone when you consider wages and transfer fees and between them they have contributed nothing. I will excuse Hart as he was needed, gibson as you hope he is the future and Wood as he did at least contribute last season.

However there comes a point where we need to stop confusing value and cheap.
£50m ?!!!!

In true maths exam style you need to show your “workings out” on this one !!
Last edited by TVC15 on Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by JohnMcGreal » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:23 pm

NL Claret wrote:As CT also points out we aren't going to bet the ranch or smash the wage structure.
If reports are to be believed, Dyche himself is earning a very decent wedge here, so I don't believe the wage structure is as rigid as some people think.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by IndigoLake » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:25 pm

FactualFrank wrote:As Indigo says and as I've said recently, as tough as this transfer window is going to be, in my mind the fact remains; if we don't bring in 1-2 players good enough to bolster the starting 11, we'll go down. So I think there's going to have to be at least some speculating to accumulate in this window, if none of our main targets are available.
For me it has to be at least 2-3 (and that's extremely unlikely).

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by IndigoLake » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:27 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:If reports are to be believed, Dyche himself is earning a very decent wedge here, so I don't believe the wage structure is as rigid as some people think.
I think it's only right Dyche was rewarded for his excellent work last season with a new contract. Unfortunately, I don't think he's earning his wage at present. I'm sure there are a fair few managers who would be very interested in little old Burnley if they could be on what Dyche is earning.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:28 pm

Pretty sure we won’t finish the window with 5 keepers, Heaton is almost certain to go early in the window.

I’d imagine one of the forward line will go, plus Wells.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by JohnMac » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:28 pm

I thought Dyche was getting about £3.5m a year?

Hardly mind blowing if true as it's only about the same as Tammy Abraham and suchlike.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by JohnMcGreal » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:29 pm

IndigoLake wrote:I think it's only right Dyche was rewarded for his excellent work last season with a new contract. Unfortunately, I don't think he's earning his wage at present. I'm sure there are a fair few managers who would be very interested in little old Burnley if they could be on what Dyche is earning.
Agreed, but it just shows that if the club thinks the individual is worth it, they're capable of loosening the purse strings when it comes to wages.

The same assessment should be made when identifying players. If they're good enough, and we can afford it, pay them.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by IndigoLake » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:34 pm

JohnMac wrote:I thought Dyche was getting about £3.5m a year?

Hardly mind blowing if true as it's only about the same as Tammy Abraham and suchlike.
It's pretty good for a manager though. From what I've seen online, he's around mid table in terms of the wage he gets in relation to other PL managers.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by NL Claret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:35 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:Agreed, but it just shows that if the club thinks the individual is worth it, they're capable of loosening the purse strings when it comes to wages.

The same assessment should be made when identifying players. If they're good enough, and we can afford it, pay them.
But is that where the problem lies when a player comes in on a bigger wage and then others want the same? If you believe the conjecture about Hart's wage , he's the problem.

I don't know the facts on wages. I saw something on Twitter we spent 51% of income on wages. There were some EFL clubs who spent well over 100% of income on wages. That cannot be a good business model. Similar to Gartside at Bolton, the plan would have worked but for relegation and look at what is happening there now.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by TVC15 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:40 pm

IndigoLake wrote:It's pretty good for a manager though. From what I've seen online, he's around mid table in terms of the wage he gets in relation to other PL managers.
I would be surprised if it was mid table - would be interesting to see the link where you saw this.

Either way given what he has brought to the club and the wages that players get paid then £3.5m is more than great value.
Man Utd eventually realised that SAF was the most important single person at the club and started to pay him accordingly. It took them a while though. I’m glad we realised this at Burnley with SD.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by dpinsussex » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:41 pm

Remember the days where we could only dream of spending £10m in a transfer window

We might end up doing in this one but SD will be given some

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Socrates » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:45 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Spend that much and the wage bill would rise to a level at which we can't cope. It's the wage bill that becomes the most important, not the transfer fees.
This would be a lot stronger argument if we hadn’t made multi-multi-multi million pound profits over the last few years.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by IndigoLake » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:46 pm

TVC15 wrote:I would be surprised if it was mid table - would be interesting to see the link where you saw this.

Either way given what he has brought to the club and the wages that players get paid then £3.5m is more than great value.
Man Utd eventually realised that SAF was the most important single person at the club and started to pay him accordingly. It took them a while though. I’m glad we realised this at Burnley with SD.
10th in this table: https://www.express.co.uk/sport/footbal ... tgalleries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree with you - I think the manager should be on a higher wage than the players to be honest.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Cubanclaret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:46 pm

I think in our vulnerable situation all our focus should be on securing (at least) two quality loan players until the end of the season to try and keep us up.
We all know it’s a difficult time to sign players and it won’t be easy whatever but we will have to pay what it takes or resign ourselves to the struggle.
We shouldn't have to worry too much re: wage structure then as any arrangement is strictly temporary.
Chelsea were trying to get Danny Drinkwater out at the start of the season, he wanted to fight for his place but he’s hardly had a kick for them - he’s a Manchester lad who will no doubt know plenty of our lads and has the experience of helping haul Leicester out of the schmuck the season before they won the league. £100k a week usually shared with the parent club - Even if we pay all of it, surely worth a £2m gamble. I know it’s not as easy as that and a two-way street isn’t a given - but we should only target players who can improve us overnight for which we’ll have to pay top dollar.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Long Time Lurker » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:47 pm

TVC15 wrote:£50m ?!!!!

In true maths exam style you need to show your “workings out” on this one !!
I make it around £20m in transfer fees plus wages and twixes. Although you have deduct the wages paid by Ipswich and QPR. Nahki £5.5m, Walters £2.5m and Vydra £12m.

You also need to factor in how well Nahki is doing at QPR and if it continues we should be able to recoup his transfer fee and maybe a bit more if either the club or player decide it is time for a move. Alternatively, if we do find ourselves in a lower league next season we might be very happy we brought him in.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Socrates » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:47 pm

I love Dyche. I would not dream of sacking him.

But I am absolutely done with his rhetoric on transfers. He’s gone beyond being a realist about our situation and it’s now become negative, defeatist and small time.

For a man who talks about the importance of mentality and positive thinking it astounds me how often he bangs this ultra negative drum. I cannot believe that it does no affect the mentality of the players (even if by just 1%) and potential new signings.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by aggi » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:48 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Spend that much and the wage bill would rise to a level at which we can't cope. It's the wage bill that becomes the most important, not the transfer fees.
That's not strictly true, there is a lot of headroom in our wage bill. We could bump it up by a lot and still make a profit.

The issue is that the board have decided that they want to take a very prudent approach and build up a rainy day fund in case we get relegated.

In principle it is sensible but the balancing act is how much do you focus on the here and now and how much on saving for the worst case scenario in the future.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Top Claret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:51 pm

I personally would not give Dyche a penny to spend, he has now run his course. Why give a manager millions to squander when he has only won 8 games in 40.

This time next week if we don't pick up any points, Dyche should be clearing his desk. To let him throw money at the job would be crazy, pure nievety and bad decision making by the board.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by ClaretAndJew » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:59 pm

Top Claret wrote:I personally would not give Dyche a penny to spend, he has now run his course. Why give a manager millions to squander when he has only won 8 games in 40.

This time next week if we don't pick up any points, Dyche should be clearing his desk. To let him throw money at the job would be crazy, pure nievety and bad decision making by the board.
It's not as bad as 8 games in 40. It's 8 games in a calender year unless we win on Sunday.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:00 pm

Am I right in saying we are capped at bringing 2 players in on loan and they can't be from the same club?
If so, even that could be the difference between staying up and going down. And if that means spending the money all on wages, that could be a very wise investment. 2 players from a top 6 sides that have very little chance of featuring for them this season.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by jlup1980 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:03 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Spend that much and the wage bill would rise to a level at which we can't cope. It's the wage bill that becomes the most important, not the transfer fees.
True, but we spent nearly £30m on two players who haven't really featured. Makes you wonder why we didn't just stump up for Dawson and Jay Rod!

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Colburn_Claret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:04 pm

jlup1980 wrote:We're playing the little old Burnley card too often in my opinion. We're comfortably in the top 50 richest football clubs in Europe and possibly the world, yet we still make out we can't compete with Championship clubs, nevermind PL clubs!

Is this the wider issue? We need to shed the small club mentality. I'm not saying we should go and spend 100 million, but there was no reason we couldn't have spent 50 million last summer. We made a big profit on transfers the 12 months prior and got the usual TV money. We invested in Championship players and it's showing.
We create more money than Championship clubs, but their owners are still willing and able, to bank roll them beyond what they create. In the real world Burnley can't do that. You can only spend the money once, and when it's gone.........
Frustrating, but we do what we need to do to survive. Survival being staying in existence, not staying in the Premier League.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:07 pm

ksrclaret wrote:I'm not so sure. Rigg has only been here a matter of months so surely can't have had enough time to properly exert his influence?

And Garlick has backed Dyche many times before, he's playing his part.
He should be expected to hit the ground running imo. Hes here in a senior position at a premier league club with experience and contacts.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Colburn_Claret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:07 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Am I right in saying we are capped at bringing 2 players in on loan and they can't be from the same club?
If so, even that could be the difference between staying up and going down. And if that means spending the money all on wages, that could be a very wise investment. 2 players from a top 6 sides that have very little chance of featuring for them this season.
It does make you wonder when finances are so tight, that we bicker over an extra 2mill for a player who we all know would improve the team, yet spend upward of 60 million on players who can't get on the pitch, and when they do offer little more than what we already had.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by TheFamilyCat » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:18 pm

Any context to the "tough window" quote or is it just up there to allow folk to have a pop at the club again?

It will be a tough window; we are in a dire position and desperately need a couple of bodies in key positions. Clubs know that so will try to screw us on transfer fees. Players and their agents will also know it so will be wary of joining us or will also demand higher wages.

I really can't see how we'll get the players we need without having our pants pulled down.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:19 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Any context to the "tough window" quote or is it just up there to allow folk to have a pop at the club again?
He said it, but this was last month:

Everyone knows January's a really tough window so, to make it clear, we're not looking for Mike to come in and miraculously hand over seven players.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Conroy92 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:20 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote: Frustrating, but we do what we need to do to survive. Survival being staying in existence, not staying in the Premier League.
This is the mentality we should be getting away from. We are no longer fighting to stay in existence. These posters are content with a trip back to the championship as we have survived, as in existed for another year.
I want to see us giving ourselves the best chance to play in the prem, im confident that 50 million pounds worth of signings in January wouldnt liquidate us, especially if we spend it on young players.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by jlup1980 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:21 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:We create more money than Championship clubs, but their owners are still willing and able, to bank roll them beyond what they create. In the real world Burnley can't do that. You can only spend the money once, and when it's gone.........
Frustrating, but we do what we need to do to survive. Survival being staying in existence, not staying in the Premier League.
Time to try for a few more bargain Championship players. I'd be tempted to throw a decent chunk at Brentford for Maupay and Watkins. They'd give us a completely different dimension. Adam Reach at Sheff Weds must be worth a look as well. Jarrod Bowen at Hull is another. None of their teams are at the right end of the table and bids could unsettle the players quite quickly if they get a sniff of the Premier League.

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by claret3561 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:32 pm

We create more money than Championship clubs, but their owners are still willing and able, to bank roll them beyond what they create. In the real world Burnley can't do that. You can only spend the money once, and when it's gone.........
Frustrating, but we do what we need to do to survive. Survival being staying in existence, not staying in the Premier League.

What a load of rubbish. We are in the best financial position we've ever been in. We need to spend now and increase wages to consolidate our place in the PL. If we save for a rainy day, that day will soon be upon us and the savings will be used to cover small crowds and lack of tv funding. So why not continue to make money in the prem rather than subsidise ourselves as we slip back through the league's

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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:33 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:The windows as big for garlick and rigg as it is Dyche...
I wouldn't include Rigg to be honest, I doubt he'll have a major influence on this window. But it is certainly big for the chairman, who seems to have taken control of it all in recent years, and the manager.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by TVC15 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:38 pm

jlup1980 wrote:Time to try for a few more bargain Championship players. I'd be tempted to throw a decent chunk at Brentford for Maupay and Watkins. They'd give us a completely different dimension. Adam Reach at Sheff Weds must be worth a look as well. Jarrod Bowen at Hull is another. None of their teams are at the right end of the table and bids could unsettle the players quite quickly if they get a sniff of the Premier League.
To me that is accepting relegation.
There is a reason these players are not playing for top championship teams or in the premier league. And I know this approach has served us well in the past but we are no longer in a financial position where it is necessary for us to find bargains all the time. We should always be looking down the leagues for players we think we can develop and increase the value but this takes time and at the moment that is something we do not have. Taking a punt on one or of 2 these is fine but only if we are also buying proven quality who can walk straight into the first eleven.
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Re: Dyche expects tough window

Post by Dyched » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:38 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Spend that much and the wage bill would rise to a level at which we can't cope. It's the wage bill that becomes the most important, not the transfer fees.
Rubbish. Last January we could guarantee a player 18 months PL football. Only us and the top 6 could do that. We could have spent big and offer big wages. Teams like us put buy out clauses, relegation clauses in contracts. This myth about being relegated and stuck with a squad on £80,000 a week is rubbish. Well unless you have a stupid chairman in charge.
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