Who is going to vote on Thursday?
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
No BREXIT candidate so it will have to be McBeth (UKIP)
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
UKIP are far more right wing now than they wereClarets4me wrote:Crass comment, really, Lancs ! You're usually more considered than that ....
As they were pretty much as far right as you could go without being fascist before, you kinda draw the only possible conclusion.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
CoolMT03ALG wrote:No BREXIT candidate so it will have to be McBeth (UKIP)
Brexit more important than equal rights for all
Brexit more important than not voting for racists
Brexit more important than not voting for fascists
But yeah, you keep the important stuff at the front of your voting choice.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
I know you come accross as knowing everything in politics Lancaster but you haven't got a clue who the hardworking candidates in our area are have you?
Maybe best to get on a local community forum near you and share your wisdom on candidates up there?
Maybe best to get on a local community forum near you and share your wisdom on candidates up there?
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
I want Brexit as much as anyone, and yes I knew what I was voting for.
However, I wouldn't vote UKIP under pain of death.
However, I wouldn't vote UKIP under pain of death.
These 2 users liked this post: Lancasterclaret nil_desperandum
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Don't care to be honest. If you back UKIP, then you back what they stand for.Quickenthetempo wrote:I know you come accross as knowing everything in politics Lancaster but you haven't got a clue who the hardworking candidates in our area are have you?
Maybe best to get on a local community forum near you and share your wisdom on candidates up there?
You might be the nicest, hardest working racist the world has ever seen, but you'd still be a racist.
Last time, when UKIP won the seat (only seat they won) I was perfectly happy with it for the reasons I've highlighted above.
Now?
They are the BNP, and people can ignore that if they want, but don't get all offended when its called out.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Maybe, but along with many, I think you're missing the point. It will be almost impossible for any council make much difference- no matter what it's make-up - if it continues to be starved of money by central government. It's not just Labour Councils who are really struggling and highly critical of the year on year budget cuts. (e.g. Northampton).Quickenthetempo wrote: But it will need a lot of Labour candidates getting defeated for the council to change for the better.
And let's also remember that in most cases it's northern seats like ours that have been cut the most.
This BBC article makes grim reading and highlights why local councils are struggling irrespective of who's in control
(It claims Councils have had to absorb cuts of £386 per head).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46988310" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
ExactlyHatfieldClaret wrote:I want Brexit as much as anyone, and yes I knew what I was voting for.
However, I wouldn't vote UKIP under pain of death.
if you want Brexit, then just vote Conservative. They will be mega pro-Brexit before you know it with their membership base.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
You're calling these candidates racist without actually meeting them or knowing anything about them? Wow.Lancasterclaret wrote:Don't care to be honest. If you back UKIP, then you back what they stand for.
You might be the nicest, hardest working racist the world has ever seen, but you'd still be a racist.
Last time, when UKIP won the seat (only seat they won) I was perfectly happy with it for the reasons I've highlighted above.
Now?
They are the BNP, and people can ignore that if they want, but don't get all offended when its called out.
Maybe they know Independents rarely get in and it helps a lot having a party banner? Maybe they know that Conservatives wont get in the seat?Maybe they know how little the Labour councillors do for our area?
But yeah let's think the worst straight away.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Mate, you can vote for them, but don't try to tell me its about "local issues"Quickenthetempo wrote:You're calling these candidates racist without actually meeting them or knowing anything about them? Wow.
Maybe they know Independents rarely get in and it helps a lot having a party banner? Maybe they know that Conservatives wont get in the seat?Maybe they know how little the Labour councillors do for our area?
But yeah let's think the worst straight away.
Cos it isn't.
If you want Brexit, then vote Conservative
If you want non-Brexit, then Green or Lib Dem
If you vote Labour regardless, then vote Labour regardless
But if you vote UKIP in 2019 (crucially different from 2016 UKIP in that they have gone after the Tommy Robinson vote) then there is a limited amount of conclusions to be drawn.
If your candidate is still happy to be in UKIP, then he's happy backing the likes of Tommy Robinson. And the people who vote for him are as well.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
But surely you can't stand as a Ukip candidate unless you support their core policies. Does supporting racist policies make you a racist?Quickenthetempo wrote:You're calling these candidates racist without actually meeting them or knowing anything about them? Wow.
Maybe they know Independents rarely get in and it helps a lot having a party banner? Maybe they know that Conservatives wont get in the seat?Maybe they know how little the Labour councillors do for our area?
But yeah let's think the worst straight away.
From your post one can assume that you don't believe that to be the case, but to most people it would be an unavoidable conclusion to reach.
If they are a good, popular and local then why not stand as an Independent. If as you say they are good and do a lot for the area, then I would vote for them as an Indy, but as soon as they attach themselves to Ukip, then my vote goes elsewhere. I'm sure many others think the same, so why not stand as a " Independent for Local people" (or similar).
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Tommy Robinson is standing as an independent.Lancasterclaret wrote:Mate, you can vote for them, but don't try to tell me its about "local issues"
Cos it isn't.
If you want Brexit, then vote Conservative
If you want non-Brexit, then Green or Lib Dem
If you vote Labour regardless, then vote Labour regardless
But if you vote UKIP in 2019 (crucially different from 2016 UKIP in that they have gone after the Tommy Robinson vote) then there is a limited amount of conclusions to be drawn.
If your candidate is still happy to be in UKIP, then he's happy backing the likes of Tommy Robinson. And the people who vote for him are as well.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Are UKIP challenging him for the seat ?AndyClaret wrote:Tommy Robinson is standing as an independent.
Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Well we know these candidates are willing to stand for a party that has sought out and courted people such as Yaxley Lennon. From that it's not a great leap to suggest they're racist.Quickenthetempo wrote:You're calling these candidates racist without actually meeting them or knowing anything about them? Wow.
Maybe they know Independents rarely get in and it helps a lot having a party banner? Maybe they know that Conservatives wont get in the seat?Maybe they know how little the Labour councillors do for our area?
But yeah let's think the worst straight away.
Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
It should be the case but it's clearly not. You can see that from when the Lib Dems were decimated in the local elections following the ConLib coalition. Round me we had some good Lib Dem councillors replaced by pretty poor Labour councillors because of that.tiger76 wrote:I'm confused why brexit is so salient in a local election campaign,but if that's your choice fair enough,i despise Nicola Sturgeon but have a very active and competent SNP councillor so he gets my vote,surely the UK public are smart enough to distinguish between different elections,and the impact that voting can have,take Burnley as an example if Labour have a bad night it's feasible Burnley will go to NOC,it's unlikely but not impossible.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Hatfield, you need to just do a little research on the " list " system for European Elections ....HatfieldClaret wrote:Are UKIP challenging him for the seat ?
Labour, Con, L/Dem, Change UK , UKIP, Brexit Party, Greens etc are all challenging him for the 8 seats available, in the " North West " region ...
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
You would be better explaining that to the candidates (I presume you're local to Burnley/Padiham).nil_desperandum wrote:But surely you can't stand as a Ukip candidate unless you support their core policies. Does supporting racist policies make you a racist?
From your post one can assume that you don't believe that to be the case, but to most people it would be an unavoidable conclusion to reach.
If they are a good, popular and local then why not stand as an Independent. If as you say they are good and do a lot for the area, then I would vote for them as an Indy, but as soon as they attach themselves to Ukip, then my vote goes elsewhere. I'm sure many others think the same, so why not stand as a " Independent for Local people" (or similar).
I brought it up with Alan Hosker who is the Lancashire County Councillor now as a lot want him to run for MP next time. I thought he might be better going as an Independent with UKIP dieing since Brexit (although it's coming back because of the balls up) but he thinks it's ******* in the wind as most vote for a party. Then you have the people that know you who will vote.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Actually, in Gawthorpe and Hapton with Park, where UKIP have their best chance, it is very much about local issues ...Lancasterclaret wrote:Mate, you can vote for them, but don't try to tell me its about "local issues" ..Cos it isn't.
If you want Brexit, then vote Conservative
If you want non-Brexit, then Green or Lib Dem
If you vote Labour regardless, then vote Labour regardless
But if you vote UKIP in 2019 (crucially different from 2016 UKIP in that they have gone after the Tommy Robinson vote) then there is a limited amount of conclusions to be drawn. If your candidate is still happy to be in UKIP, then he's happy backing the likes of Tommy Robinson. And the people who vote for him are as well.
Both the existing UKIP Councillors are hard working and diligent, and get things done ... local playing fields, dog mess, double parking, cutting back overgrowth, replacing bus shelters are the unglamorous side of their job, and they do it well, and communicate with their constituents regularly, not just 6 weeks before the May elections. Their main selling point is that they're not Labour ..
I agree that UKIP nationally have moved to an anti-islamist agenda since 2015, ( I resigned in Feb 2017, due to this, having stood 3 times at local elections ). My issue was always Sovereignty, as I've said on this forum many times and I have no truck with the new agenda. This did not stop me being listed, for a while, on the " Hope not Hate " website as a right-wing extremist, however !
From your logic, I take it anybody still in Labour are happy with Mr Corbyn's past utterances and leadership, the prospect of Dianne Abbott as Home Secretary, and John McDonnell's chanting of " lynch the bitch " about a Conservative parliamentary candidate, and any body in the Tories are happy with Mrs May as leader and her handling of Brexit. Clearly that is not true, as it is not of all UKIP members ....
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Right, so why are they not standing as independents?
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Probably the same reason why thousands of Conservative and Labour candidates are still standing, despite their disagreements with their Leaderships ... you wouldn't suggest all Labour candidates are anti-semitic or IRA sympathisers now, would you ?Lancasterclaret wrote:Right, so why are they not standing as independents?
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
So they disagree with UKIPs racist policy then and the way its going?
There would be some evidence of this surely?
There would be some evidence of this surely?
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
I've had two leaflets through.
One from Mark Townsend (Labour) and one (batshit mental one) from Steven Smith (National Front).
I believe the Greens and Conservatives are also standing in my ward, though neither have seen fit to put anything through my door.
One from Mark Townsend (Labour) and one (batshit mental one) from Steven Smith (National Front).
I believe the Greens and Conservatives are also standing in my ward, though neither have seen fit to put anything through my door.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
I can understand ClaretAndy giving your post a "like", but actually it makes no sense at all, and it's not difficult to explain why.Clarets4me wrote:Probably the same reason why thousands of Conservative and Labour candidates are still standing, despite their disagreements with their Leaderships ... you wouldn't suggest all Labour candidates are anti-semitic or IRA sympathisers now, would you ?
Yes, there might be Anti-semites in the Labour Party, and Anti- Muslims in the Tory Party, (And there are most likely Irish who are broadly IRA sympathisers in all parties), but the essential difference is that this isn't party policy, whereas if you stand as an official UKip candidate then it is assumed that you share their core beliefs.
As I said in previous post I could well see myself voting for a good independent fighting for local issues, but once they campaign under the UKip flag then there's no way.
Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
....errr...this is a local election...what happens to your bins, parks etc.
Get real and vite local issues.
Euro elections soon. Vote for the shambles of your choice then.
Get real and vite local issues.
Euro elections soon. Vote for the shambles of your choice then.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
It makes perfect sense, to be honest. People's views change or are in flux most of the time ...nil_desperandum wrote:I can understand ClaretAndy giving your post a "like", but actually it makes no sense at all, and it's not difficult to explain why.
Yes, there might be Anti-semites in the Labour Party, and Anti- Muslims in the Tory Party, (And there are most likely Irish who are broadly IRA sympathisers in all parties), but the essential difference is that this isn't party policy, whereas if you stand as an official UKip candidate then it is assumed that you share their core beliefs.
As I said in previous post I could well see myself voting for a good independent fighting for local issues, but once they campaign under the UKip flag then there's no way.
In addition, if you hold strong views on the Government's handling of Brexit, or the levels of immigration etc, and want to have your voice heard, then Labour, Greens & the Lib-Dems are hardly the parties for you. Danger lurks when people feel there is no party/candidate out there to vote for, as I think the " Brexit " party will prove should the Eurpean elections actually take place ....
I agree with "IanMcL", ideally these local elections should be about local issues and competence in your Town Hall. However, when you just know that either Mrs May or Mr Corbyn will take your vote and spin it as an endorsement of " the great job we're doing ", you can quite see why National issues can take over the debate. In past locals, I've voted L/D ( Great councillor, infrequent poster on here ), Con ( worked very hard, retiring this time ), UKIP ( me ! ) and Independent ...
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Frankly if you choose to vote or not for a party due to "brexity" / "immigration" issues then you're bonkers. It's not as though you'll have to wait more than a few weeks to express your view on this, meanwhile there's a crisis in local services due to the chronic under-funding and cuts that local councils have been enduring for a decade now.Clarets4me wrote:It makes perfect sense, to be honest. People's views change or are in flux most of the time ...
In addition, if you hold strong views on the Government's handling of Brexit, or the levels of immigration etc, and want to have your voice heard, then Labour, Greens & the Lib-Dems are hardly the parties for you. Danger lurks when people feel there is no party/candidate out there to vote for, as I think the " Brexit " party will prove should the Eurpean elections actually take place ....
I agree with "IanMcL", ideally these local elections should be about local issues and competence in your Town Hall. However, when you just know that either Mrs May or Mr Corbyn will take your vote and spin it as an endorsement of " the great job we're doing ", you can quite see why National issues can take over the debate. In past locals, I've voted L/D ( Great councillor, infrequent poster on here ), Con ( worked very hard, retiring this time ), UKIP ( me ! ) and Independent ...
But to get back to your opening sentence. It's nothing to do with people's views changing. A good local councillor will be elected on local issues, but if they choose to stand on the UKip ticket then one has to assume that they agree with the vast majority - if not all - their core policies. If not then why would the party select you as their candidate?
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Your first paragraph argues against itself, it's how the local councillors deal with the level of funding they're allocated that should be the issue, not the " chronic under funding & cuts " arguement, which is a national issue.nil_desperandum wrote:Frankly if you choose to vote or not for a party due to "brexity" / "immigration" issues then you're bonkers. It's not as though you'll have to wait more than a few weeks to express your view on this, meanwhile there's a crisis in local services due to the chronic under-funding and cuts that local councils have been enduring for a decade now.
But to get back to your opening sentence. It's nothing to do with people's views changing. A good local councillor will be elected on local issues, but if they choose to stand on the UKip ticket then one has to assume that they agree with the vast majority - if not all - their core policies. If not then why would the party select you as their candidate?
Your 2nd paragraph adds nothing to the old ground, we all know many conscientous and hard working Councillors of all stripes have been voted out, due to National events over the years, and this week will be no exception. There will be hundreds of Labour candidates agreeing on the doorstep that " Corbyn's a fruitcake, and I personally abhor his attitude to the military & giving legal aid to ISIS brides " and hundreds, if not thousands of Conservative candidates nodding, " I agree that May needs to go, and we need a " no deal " Brexit " ....
Will you be voting Labour ?
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
No - absolutely not. Why do you ask?Clarets4me wrote:
Will you be voting Labour ?
I already implied in my posts to you that I wouldn't be.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
I think it's you that's arguing against yourself. It's EXACTLY as you say. You should be voting for local councillors to deal with local issues, not being influenced by "national issues" like brexit and immigration. (Which is what I said in my initial reply to you. It now appears that you agree).Clarets4me wrote:Your first paragraph argues against itself, it's how the local councillors deal with the level of funding they're allocated that should be the issue, not the " chronic under funding & cuts " arguement, which is a national issue.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
I never disagreed ...as stated I've voted for Individuals in the past ... it is however inevitable. Btw the majority of the B&P Independents were Lib-Dems at the time of the Referendum and those individuals were strongly in favour of Brexit !
Just curious as to how you might vote, should you wish to share ! It's a private ballot, however ...
Just curious as to how you might vote, should you wish to share ! It's a private ballot, however ...
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
I actually have a bit of a dilemma since no one has sent me any info, and on checking I find that there are only 2 candidates in my ward - Con and Lab.Clarets4me wrote:I never disagreed ...as stated I've voted for Individuals in the past ... it is however inevitable. Btw the majority of the B&P Independents were Lib-Dems at the time of the Referendum and those individuals were strongly in favour of Brexit !
Just curious as to how you might vote, should you wish to share ! It's a private ballot, however ...
I have major issues with both parties at NATIONAL level and particularly with Tory funding cuts, BUT, our Tory councillor is both a neighbour and a damn good councillor for our ward so as at previous LOCAL elections I'll be voting for her.
It will be a different matter in the EU elections though - and she knows it!!
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Hell, from what I'm reading, SHE might not even vote Conservative in the EU elections on May 23rd !!nil_desperandum wrote:I actually have a bit of a dilemma since no one has sent me any info, and on checking I find that there are only 2 candidates in my ward - Con and Lab.
I have major issues with both parties at NATIONAL level and particularly with Tory funding cuts, BUT, our Tory councillor is both a neighbour and a damn good councillor for our ward so as at previous LOCAL elections I'll be voting for her.
It will be a different matter in the EU elections though - and she knows it!!
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Oh, I think she will!!!!!Hell, from what I'm reading, SHE might not even vote Conservative in the EU elections on May 23rd !!
(She's of that type and generation that would vote Tory despite all arguments , but being a very determined lady of that description makes her a formidable councillor, and someone who has worked hard for the community for several decades).
Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Vote for your local candidate about local issues!
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
A touch of the " Mandy Rice Davies's " from you there, IanMcL !!IanMcL wrote:Vote for your local candidate about local issues!
Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
I normally do but this time my choice is between Lab and Con and if I was voting on local issues I would go with Lab but as Corbyn will subsequently point to local gains as approval for his policies which I don’t support I will abstain from voting this Thursday.IanMcL wrote:Vote for your local candidate about local issues!
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
drastic as it sounds (and admittedly contrary to what I said earlier in the thread) if you have a choice like that then I think its perfectly acceptable not to vote.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Perfectly good advice. But I cannot get beyond the thought that the current first past the post system is broken. It disenfranchises usually over half the electorate and their concerns. So Green party it is for me as a protest.IanMcL wrote:Vote for your local candidate about local issues!
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
No issue...as long as it is a real candidate, who has informed you about local issues they wish to tackle, on your behalf....and you agree with those issuesCOBBLE wrote:Perfectly good advice. So Green party it is for me as a protest.
Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
....they all do and always have/will.Dy1geo wrote:I normally do but this time my choice is between Lab and Con and if I was voting on local issues I would go with Lab but as Corbyn will subsequently point to local gains as approval for his policies which I don’t support I will abstain from voting this Thursday.
Your one vote may serve to win the day for someone and not voting, may lose the day.
Will Corbyn's message be the same? Yes.
Will your community issues be tackled? Maybe not.
Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Not sure what that means.Clarets4me wrote:A touch of the " Mandy Rice Davies's " from you there, IanMcL !!
Voting on local issues, for a local candidate, in a local election, seems sensible advice.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
No it's not, and I'm surprised that with the views you appear to hold that you posted that.Lancasterclaret wrote:drastic as it sounds (and admittedly contrary to what I said earlier in the thread) if you have a choice like that then I think its perfectly acceptable not to vote.
Everyone should vote and if you don't like the choices you should put "none of the above", or similar. At one extreme you could even write a short essay as to why none of them are worthy of your vote, or at the other simply spoil the paper, but I believe we all have a duty to vote. It's something that our forefathers / mothers fought hard for and we should value.
If everyone who didn't like the field of candidates put "none of the above", it would be a massive wake-up call to the main parties. Not voting sends out the message that you are apathetic or lazy and can't be bothered.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Her reply when asked to respond to John Profumo's testimony ... " Well, he would say that, wouldn't he ? " .....IanMcL wrote:Not sure what that means. Voting on local issues, for a local candidate, in a local election, seems sensible advice.
I presume that is why you continue to get re-elected for your Council, in what most would regard as unpromising territory for your National party. That, and because you're diligent, trustworthy and hard working, of course ...
This user liked this post: IanMcL
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
It’s a shame there are not more independents, it’s probably their best chance in years to get elected.
I also understand people who have choice of the main two parties thinking why spend 20 minutes of my time to put none of the above.
I agree it would send a message, having stood watching votes being counted looking for spoiled voting papers.
On the votes can count, if I remember correctly my mother once won by 19 votes and my dad lost by 6 after 3 recounts.
I also understand people who have choice of the main two parties thinking why spend 20 minutes of my time to put none of the above.
I agree it would send a message, having stood watching votes being counted looking for spoiled voting papers.
On the votes can count, if I remember correctly my mother once won by 19 votes and my dad lost by 6 after 3 recounts.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Most people can write 4 words a bit quicker than that though!!Lowbankclaret wrote: I also understand people who have choice of the main two parties thinking why spend 20 minutes of my time to put "none of the above".
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
I haven't read all this thread but anyone who doesn't vote deserve what they get.
This user liked this post: South West Claret.
Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
My parents once arrived home from a day out and passed the polling station at five to nine, for a closing time of nine o'clock. They went in and both voted Liberal; the Liberal won by 1 vote. It does happen.Lowbankclaret wrote:It’s a shame there are not more independents, it’s probably their best chance in years to get elected.
I also understand people who have choice of the main two parties thinking why spend 20 minutes of my time to put none of the above.
I agree it would send a message, having stood watching votes being counted looking for spoiled voting papers.
On the votes can count, if I remember correctly my mother once won by 19 votes and my dad lost by 6 after 3 recounts.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Yes I agree for reasons that I gave in post 50.icu81b4 wrote:I haven't read all this thread but anyone who doesn't vote deserve what they get.
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Re: Who is going to vote on Thursday?
Gonna vote for the French candidate Spoile de vot en sleep....