Success rate at free kicks

steve1264b · Post by **steve1264b** » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:26 pm

We havent scored directly since Defour at Utd.

I remember our manager answering a question about not leaving a forward up at corners. He said stats showed it wasnt worth it. Better to have the extra defender.

The modern trend (for all clubs) seems to be shoot. Im not sure how many go in but it seems to me not often.

Isnt it time we became more inventive and stopped shooting at free kicks?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:28 pm

steve1264b wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:26 pm
We havent scored directly since Defour at Utd.

I remember our manager answering a question about not leaving a forward up at corners. He said stats showed it wasnt worth it. Better to have the extra defender.

The modern trend (for all clubs) seems to be shoot. Im not sure how many go in but it seems to me not often.

Isnt it time we became more inventive and stopped shooting at free kicks?

Have we even hit the target from a direct FK since Defour scored? Our shots at goal from free kicks are miserable.

Iloveyoubrady · Post by **Iloveyoubrady** » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:39 pm

We hardly get any though, mainly due to how we spend so little time with the ball at feet around the edge of the box. Brownhill seems to be the one to take them now and I think he’s pretty good as he scored one in pre season and has come very close with one of them this year. McNeil can take them too, as he did with the England U21s when he hit the post.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:46 pm

I agree they are usually a waste of time.
With so many locked together, in a wall and even one laying down behind, surely it would not take much for a set of prem footballers to get round the back of the wall and in the net. Man City do it to us in live play. Surely we can pass it out and in???

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:03 am

I can’t imagine it is a high percentage the number of direct free kicks that are scored. Everyone expects a shot from free kicks outside the box so much opportunity to try something a bit different that would probably result in a better goal scoring opportunity.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:57 am

Benson looked the most dangerous against City, but normally we have been woeful.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:47 am

Brady used to be great. Not sure what happened.

Grimsdale · Post by **Grimsdale** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:15 am

It's worth noting that goals scored from a free kick are pretty rare. There have only been 13 Premier League goals scored directly from free kicks so far this season and four of those were by Southampton (no other team has scored more than one). Even Cristiano Ronaldo has scored just one goal from a free kick out of 72 attempts since his move to Juventus.

I've often wondered whether teams are better off passing/crossing the ball from a free kick just outside the area than taking on the shot. Take the example below from the recent Newcastle v Spurs game.

There are 8 of the 10 outfield Newcastle players stood in the wall or just alongside it and just 4 Spurs players (including the taker) in a position to have any involvement in the free kick. So why don't Spurs have players lined up alongside the edge of the area (either side of the "D") all running into the box at the same time? If the wall breaks up so the defenders can cover these extra attackers, it makes the shot more attractive as there's a good chance of a direct line of sight to goal whereas if the wall stays as it is, the taker can clip the ball into the box for his onrushing team mates where the defence will be heavily outnumbered.

Incidentally in this case Kane's shot went harmlessly into the wall.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:54 am

Stopping Brady taking them might help

Culmclaret · Post by **Culmclaret** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:09 am

Does seem odd. At the very least a greater degree of creativity and movement would produce uncertainty/distraction in the defence and make it difficult for the wall to stand fast

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:52 am

I get wound up when we win free kicks and play them backwards or sideways conceding ground,instead of playing them into the box ,where we are more than a match to most teams

775claret · Post by **775claret** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:59 am

Our free kick routine at Coventry springs to mind. Was it Glen Little involved?

Can't remember who ultimately put the ball in the net, but it was a clever piece of play.

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:03 am

Was it Peter Schmeichel who said the wall is just a distraction? If the taker was to shoot from there with no wall the goalkeeper would save it 99/100.

Looking at that image you can't help but wonder if you really need to keep four defenders back to deal with a counter attack. There's a massive space either side of the wall where a player could receive the ball and ping in to the box but the three forwards in the box are totally outnumbered. We seem to regularly over hit the free kick for someone to nod it back into the danger zone for our forwards to scrap for. We might not score from the direct free kick but how many goals have come in the second phase of a set piece?

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:05 am

775claret wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:59 am
Our free kick routine at Coventry springs to mind. Was it Glen Little involved?

Can't remember who ultimately put the ball in the net, but it was a clever piece of play.

Wasn't that an indirect free kick inside Coventry's box? If its that one that im thinking of then I wouldn't advise wasting too much time in training practicing a routine for when we next get a free kick inside the oppositions penalty area

Boss Hogg · Post by **Boss Hogg** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:13 am

We dont get many but do need to do better with them. We need to take Brady and Brownhill off them for starters.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:13 am

775claret wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:59 am
Our free kick routine at Coventry springs to mind. Was it Glen Little involved?

Can't remember who ultimately put the ball in the net, but it was a clever piece of play.

Fairly sure Paul Cook fooled everyone squaring it to Little who side footed it into the net

tarkys_ears · Post by **tarkys_ears** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:18 am

That's because we've been letting Robbie Brady have a crack at getting it on the roof too often.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:26 am

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:05 am
Wasn't that an indirect free kick inside Coventry's box? If its that one that im thinking of then I wouldn't advise wasting too much time in training practicing a routine for when we next get a free kick inside the oppositions penalty area

It was. An incorrect decision by the ref back when they trialled moving a free kick 10 yards forwards if there was dissent. I think the rule was that it should stop at the edge of the penalty box but he moved it 10 yards into the area. I was in the Directors Box at Coventry for this game and was screaming at Cook to square it to Glen, which he duly did. That was a superb away performance.

steve1264b · Post by **steve1264b** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:27 am

In the seventies i remember a cartoon type picture in the paper which showed a diagram of Burnley doing a wall pass to score a goal.

My memory maybe playing tricks but i am sure we were credited with the idea of the wall pass. Tony?

Wood scored a goal from an early free kick at the cricket field end last season which was clearly pre planned.

Just shooting doesn't appear to me statistically worth it, with all the analysis of football now the professionals must think it is.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:27 am

Yes the one at Coventry was well worked. We also used to have one under Mullen where we shifted it to the side of the wall and scored a couple of times with. Always remember the Argentina one against England in 98 World Cup which was passed down side of the wall and then crossed and put in.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:29 am

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:54 am
Stopping Brady taking them might help

Yeah, give 'em to Brownhill. Oh, hang on....

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:39 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:27 am
Yes the one at Coventry was well worked. We also used to have one under Mullen where we shifted it to the side of the wall and scored a couple of times with. Always remember the Argentina one against England in 98 World Cup which was passed down side of the wall and then crossed and put in.

Was the Mullen one when someone passed it to Eyers and instead of him teeing it up for the player ready to kick it he did a 180 swivel on to his left foot to take him to outside of the line of the wall and then he would hit it?

huw.Y.WattfromWare · Post by **huw.Y.WattfromWare** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:51 am

steve1264b wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:27 am
My memory maybe playing tricks but i am sure we were credited with the idea of the wall pass. Tony?

Not sure about the wall pass but I heard we were the first to play the short corner. Connelly and McIlroy being the instigators.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:53 am

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:39 am
Was the Mullen one when someone passed it to Eyers and instead of him teeing it up for the player ready to kick it he did a 180 swivel on to his left foot to take him to outside of the line of the wall and then he would hit it?

Earlier than that we had one that was usually Joe Jakub playing it to John Deary with his back to the wall. As the wall rushed forwards expecting a Deary to Jakub return and then a shot, Deary dragged the ball wide of the wall and hit it.

huw.Y.WattfromWare · Post by **huw.Y.WattfromWare** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:58 am

I’ve often wondered why sides don’t send a runner down the outside of the wall. Does the last man hold in the wall or go with the runner? I would suspect the wall would hold and the runner can then square a pacy cross for his incoming team mates.

I would also like to see somebody roll the ball back and sideways from edge of the box FKs. Changing the angle makes the keeper move his feet and opens up the possibility of a drive to either side of him. I’d go back to the side he’s moved from.
It’s always annoyed me that players will shoot direct from 30yds but won’t roll it back 5yds from 20.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:08 am

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:53 am
Earlier than that we had one that was usually Joe Jakub playing it to John Deary with his back to the wall. As the wall rushed forwards expecting a Deary to Jakub return and then a shot, Deary dragged the ball wide of the wall and hit it.

I think thats the one I am thinking of thanks

Iloveyoubrady · Post by **Iloveyoubrady** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:09 am

We don’t get enough in shooting range for you to say it’s not worth taking a shot. When did we last get one we could have shot from? I can’t remember any in the last few games. I’m sure we do have players with the technical ability to score one or two but due to our style we get so few they don’t get a chance.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:44 am

We tried a few different ones under Cotterill as well.

James O’Connor was involved in them if I remember.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:28 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:44 am
We tried a few different ones under Cotterill as well.

James O’Connor was involved in them if I remember.

Wasn't the main one under Cotterill to pass it back to our keeper and get everyone back in a defensive position

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:19 pm

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:53 am
Earlier than that we had one that was usually Joe Jakub playing it to John Deary with his back to the wall. As the wall rushed forwards expecting a Deary to Jakub return and then a shot, Deary dragged the ball wide of the wall and hit it.

I remember that one, worked a treat away at Wigan around '92 I think. Last minute possibly.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:22 pm

NottsClaret wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:19 pm
I remember that one, worked a treat away at Wigan around '92 I think. Last minute possibly.

Did we do something similar at home to Huddersfield that season too with Clayton scoring from the free kick ?

Might be wrong but the Wigan goal made me think of that one

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:51 pm

NottsClaret wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:19 pm
I remember that one, worked a treat away at Wigan around '92 I think. Last minute possibly.

We did it at home to Port Vale first game of the season even though it went slightly wrong Warren Joyce still managed to score!

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:30 pm

The one that surprised me was England letting Trippier take the free kicks. He wasn't great at them when he was with us. I seem to remember being really frustrated with Tyrone Mears wasting a lot of free kicks in our first Premier League season which was really frustrating as Robbie Blake had been such a good free kick taker in the Championship.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:23 pm

Josh Brownhill had a great record at Bristol City with his free kicks. I dont get the abuse he gets from some sections on here
He is 2nd in interceptions in the Premier league
I think hes been a great value signing.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:27 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:23 pm
Josh Brownhill had a great record at Bristol City with his free kicks. I dont get the abuse he gets from some sections on here
He is 2nd in interceptions in the Premier league
I think hes been a great value signing.

That may well be very true, but this is a thread about free kicks for Burnley and he's been ALMOST as dire as Brady in that respect and after one stunner on his debut, Brady really shouldn't be allowed anywhere near and Brownhill should be in the corner with him! Often said but do we even practice? because I'd absolutely love to watch all 90 seconds of those sessions!!

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:17 pm

superdimitri wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:47 am
Brady used to be great. Not sure what happened.

Once

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:46 am

IanMcL wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:17 pm
Once

No. He generally used to be good at freekicks, aside from his goal for us he used to get some decent ones on target, and also scored set pieces for his former clubs too. In fact, pretty sure part of why we signed him was his set piece ability.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:31 am

Another one bit the dust today. Brownhill not got the skill from that distance. Too close.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:45 am

IanMcL wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:31 am
Another one bit the dust today. Brownhill not got the skill from that distance. Too close.

Yup his technique for it was akin to a 30-40 harder. You can't fire the ball hard at such a close range. He must be doing something right in training though otherwise he wouldn't be taking them.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:11 am

I'd have thought it is one of the easiest things to practice down at Gawthorpe.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:13 am

Yet to see Brownhill do anything from a free kick except curl the ball nto the stand. Infuriating. Try something different!

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:01 am

My post on Twitter when the free kick was given. "free kick to Burnley, which is it going to be. Into the wall or into the stand". Next tweet "stand it is then".

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:17 am

Every time I see a shocking attempt at a direct free kick, whether its McNeil, Brownhill,Brady and occasionally JBG. I think of what money each week our manager and coaches take out the business and ask "WHY CAN'T WE EVEN GET CLOSE". Bring back Ross Wallace. Just look at the points Southampton get through having a specialist free kick taker

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:32 am

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:01 am
My post on Twitter when the free kick was given. "free kick to Burnley, which is it going to be. Into the wall or into the stand". Next tweet "stand it is then".

TBH, I don't think it's even a question as it seems to be back of the stand every single time. Definitely something we have allowed to drift to the point where it's become an embarrassing joke. (Like that shocking effort yesterday!!!)

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:39 am

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:11 am
I'd have thought it is one of the easiest things to practice down at Gawthorpe.

Absolutely agree. You hear of players who stay behind after training, practicing repeatedly certain things-particularly strikers. I knew someone who was friends with Guppy once of Leicester. At the end of training he would go out with a coach and a bag of balls and take 50 corners, to the point that on match day his corners were deadly.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:09 am

Anyone who is exceptional has practised until it is dark.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:12 am

You'd be surprised how even the best players are poor at free kicks. It isn't that easy.

This article is from last year but it shows that even KDB isn't that good at them:

https://www.givemesport.com/1623462-de- ... since-2017

steve1264b · Post by **steve1264b** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:14 am

I didn't start this thread to have a pop at our free kick takers, more that no matter how good they are the ball doesnt go in that often, why not mix up?

The one that ended upon the stand yesterday was very central, occasionally moving the ball to the side to get the ball behind the wall or a back post cross taking out the defensive wall would offer a better chance.

I was hoping someone here who understand the analytics of the modern game could give some insight into this. Its almost as every tactician in the league had decided the most effective way to score from a free kick 20 yards out is to shoot.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:31 am

Joey Barton scored a good one a few seasons back. Bang! Just like that. Dwight McNeill is probably the best option now with JBG a close second.

steve1264b · Post by **steve1264b** » Tue May 25, 2021 11:00 am

A big shout out to Dave Roberts @DLRbrts on twitter who has done some analysis of free kick success from 2016/17.

There have been 1872 direct free kick attempts with only 104 goals, just over 5%.

This must be an area of the game we can look at, to improve our success rate and be more imaginative than just shooting.