How long

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# 1
joey13
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Re: How long

Postby joey13 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:15 pm

IAmAClaret wrote:The problem, as always, is that the idiots shout loudest.

Dyche has been let down by the 'recruitment team' (whoever they may be). He gets the best out of our squad, no doubt at all.

We looked better today, but we can't keep a clean sheet and can't score. Some of our 'fight', as a club, not just the 11 seems missing.

Next week is a massive game

We looked better today ?
We were worse today than against Fulham and that takes some doing

# 2
BOYSIE31
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Re: How long

Postby BOYSIE31 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:16 pm

dsr wrote:To make it clearer, by "valid goal" I meant that we put the ball in the net without committing any infringement. The implication, possibly too subtly expressed was that although the game finished 0-0 (I presumed we all knew that), we did score a valid goal, wrongly disallowed.


sorry yeah forgot about Cork's goal ;)

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Re: How long

Postby KlyBfc » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:30 pm

Loyalty might not be common in football but for me it is an important quality to have and show. Dyche therefore has as long as he wants for me. He has taken us on a journey that peaked late July / early August higher than I’d ever dreamed of back in 1988 when I started following Burnley. That was down to SD.
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Re: How long

Postby Granny WeatherWax » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:34 pm

Dyche obviously can take us down without getting sacked, he’s earnt that.

However that doesn’t mean he is beyond criticism. We’ve been a complete shambles both on and off the pitch for a long while now and for that he has to take the brunt of the blame.

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Turftalkers mentor
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Re: How long

Postby Turftalkers mentor » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:37 pm

its beyond question of any right minded supporter to even consider replacing Sean Dyche but then again those that do have probably only been going on for "two minutes" so wont know what they are on about .

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Re: How long

Postby Right_winger » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:39 pm

Granny WeatherWax wrote:Dyche obviously can take us down without getting sacked, he’s earnt that.

However that doesn’t mean he is beyond criticism. We’ve been a complete shambles both on and off the pitch for a long while now and for that he has to take the brunt of the blame.


I can in one hand see what your saying and I wouldn’t be as critical if we were at least competitive and just miss out but we are not. We are so far off from competing that its embarrassing.

If we are Left adrift by Xmas I don’t see how he could keep his job. More fans will turn unless we drastically improve anyway.

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Re: How long

Postby boatshed bill » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:40 pm

If we sacked him we'd have to pay up his contract, and the contracts of any other staff we might sack along with him.
Conversely, if he resigned would he have to buy up his contract?

BTW, this is only hypothetical, I don't think he should go.

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Re: How long

Postby Tarksforengland123 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:43 pm

Where’s your loyalty to the manager who got you into the premier league and who finished 7th last season!

I agree that Burnley have started shite and I haven’t seen the effort and team I normally see since the Leicester match last season, but blaming Dyche for the transfer window is pathetic! Dyche doesn’t have full control of the transfer market the board does. We all know he made multiple bids for Dawson and Rodriguez and the board wouldn’t pull there finger out and spend the money they were asking for. Dyche had a list of players he wanted to sign and the board want to treat Burnley like a corner shop club and not spend anything!

We do need to see a change! But the problem isn’t with Sean Dyche the problem is with a mediocre board and that’s where the change is needed! A board who aren’t afraid to spend the money on players that we desperately needed this season!
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Re: How long

Postby bfcjg » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:48 pm

I think we will get relegated. The players are just not good enough and major investment on the pitch is needed. Dyche plays football that gets you promoted, last season was a miracle but we learnt nothing and have gone backwards.
Three teams will always drop I would keep him to get us back up.
I bet he wished get have gone to Everton because now hes damaged goods for a top job.

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Re: How long

Postby Right_winger » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:48 pm

I agree the board should portion some of the blame aswell. We are run like a corner shop but the manager has been here a long time now and we have clearly gone stale. Who’s fault is that? Dyche won’t take any risks whatsoever hence why we play ultra defensive and won’t look at players/prospects from overseas.

Let’s be honest which club in the premiership would take Dyche as a manager?

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walter the softy
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Re: How long

Postby walter the softy » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:56 pm

Right_winger wrote:There’s plenty who’d do a better job.

I’d take Allerdyce and Moyes for sure over Mr 1 dimensional.


"Plenty who'd do a better job?" Can not believe I have just read that.

Sorry to tell you but you are delusional if you think that the two you mentioned are better than Dyche or if you think there are a queue of top managers waiting to manage Burnley.

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Re: How long

Postby Vintage Claret » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:59 pm

I've always thought SD would only leave if we got relegated.

I could see one of the so called 'bigger' Championship city clubs coming in for him and I'm just not sure that, IF, we did go down, SD would have the will or inclination to try and get us promoted a 3rd time if he received a good offer from elsewhere.

Hopefully SD can turn this undeniably poor start around and it won't come to that and neither the Board nor SD has a difficult decision to make in the next few months..

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Re: How long

Postby Quickenthetempo » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:03 pm

Jimmy Mullen got sacked for less and far less deserved.

Dyche hasn't got the number 10 in we need to take us from defence to attack. He's done brilliant for us but took us as far he can I think.

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Re: How long

Postby elwaclaret » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:36 pm

I don't think anyone needs to be sacked. However to a man they need to start looking at what they could improve on their performances for the club.

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Re: How long

Postby jrgbfc » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:44 pm

bfcjg wrote:I think we will get relegated. The players are just not good enough and major investment on the pitch is needed. Dyche plays football that gets you promoted, last season was a miracle but we learnt nothing and have gone backwards.
Three teams will always drop I would keep him to get us back up.
I bet he wished get have gone to Everton because now hes damaged goods for a top job.


Everton didn't want him though. If no one came in for him after we finished 7th last season don't think they ever well.

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Re: How long

Postby Lancasterclaret » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:47 pm

Don't see the point in changing the manager.

Got to be honest, anyone calling for it in the short to medium term needs to have a long, hard look at themselves.

To me, the managers position should be reviewed at the end of the season, and we'd have to have done spectacularly badly for me to think that there is a better fit out there for us.

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Re: How long

Postby Right_winger » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:49 pm

walter the softy wrote:"Plenty who'd do a better job?" Can not believe I have just read that.

Sorry to tell you but you are delusional if you think that the two you mentioned are better than Dyche or if you think there are a queue of top managers waiting to manage Burnley.


Are you seriously suggesting that Dyche is a better manager than Allerdyce or Moyes? Give your head a shake sir, Sean’s record in management doesn’t even come close to either of them.

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Re: How long

Postby Greenmile » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:28 pm

Tarksforengland123 wrote:Where’s your loyalty to the manager who got you into the premier league and who finished 7th last season!

I agree that Burnley have started shite and I haven’t seen the effort and team I normally see since the Leicester match last season, but blaming Dyche for the transfer window is pathetic! Dyche doesn’t have full control of the transfer market the board does. We all know he made multiple bids for Dawson and Rodriguez and the board wouldn’t pull there finger out and spend the money they were asking for. Dyche had a list of players he wanted to sign and the board want to treat Burnley like a corner shop club and not spend anything!

We do need to see a change! But the problem isn’t with Sean Dyche the problem is with a mediocre board and that’s where the change is needed! A board who aren’t afraid to spend the money on players that we desperately needed this season!


Where’s your loyalty to the board who got you into the premier league and who finished 7th last season?

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IAmAClaret
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Re: How long

Postby IAmAClaret » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:41 pm

joey13 wrote:We looked better today ?
We were worse today than against Fulham and that takes some doing


Ok ill rephrase, we looked more like 'Dyches Burnley' today. We could of easily nicked a goal at the end and got away with a 1-1, and then this thread wouldn't exist. Not deserved, but we would of got it last year.

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Re: How long

Postby Quickenthetempo » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:48 pm

IAmAClaret wrote:Ok ill rephrase, we looked more like 'Dyches Burnley' today. We could of easily nicked a goal at the end and got away with a 1-1, and then this thread wouldn't exist. Not deserved, but we would of got it last year.

Did you miss the 30 chances Wolves had?

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Re: How long

Postby brexit » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:52 pm

Until a better offer comes along - probably Everton at Xmas.

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Re: How long

Postby Lancasterclaret » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:52 pm

No, but they only scored once.

That is the point being made that we looked a lot more like ourselves because we only conceded one and blocked/saved a lot.

We didn't deserve a draw, but Cork should have equalised at the back post and JBG had a free hit from the edge of the box at the end.

It doesn't mean we were good, because we weren't but we certainly had a "strong jaw" again.

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Re: How long

Postby Quickenthetempo » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:03 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:No, but they only scored once.

That is the point being made that we looked a lot more like ourselves because we only conceded one and blocked/saved a lot.

We didn't deserve a draw, but Cork should have equalised at the back post and JBG had a free hit from the edge of the box at the end.

It doesn't mean we were good, because we weren't but we certainly had a "strong jaw" again.

Maybe.

Joe Hart was certainly embarrassed about the performance though.

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Re: How long

Postby Lancasterclaret » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:07 pm

true, but I suspect he was more annoyed at our complete lack of ability to keep and use the ball.

Only time we had sustained possession was in the last five minutes, and we didn't do anything with it.

The inability to hold the ball and use the ball is what I'm more worried about put it that way.

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claretspice
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Re: How long

Postby claretspice » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:21 pm

DCWat wrote:A very, very tricky decision after everything that Dyche has done for Burnley. He certainly shouldn’t be beyond question though.

Our current situation begins to hinder the ‘togetherness’ that Dyche has often called out as so important. The Board are questioned because of lack of signings (is it them or Dyche or something else?), Dyche is questioned because our style is only accepted when we are winning (not being pleasing is only conducive with positive results).

That togetherness from board to management to team to fans suddenly seems further away than it has been for a while.


It doesn't help that folk are getting so carried away on what is basically 2 and a half games of football, though. United/Mourinho invariably win comfortably at Burnley, so we can park that one. Which leaves away days at Fulham and today at Wolves, plus a bad half against Watford.

Signings in the summer might have made a difference, but there's a massive danger of overstating this. Even if we'd signed one or two more players in the window, there's no guarantee more than one would be starting, if any - we rarely introduce new additions wholesale. And nor would they necessarily cure our current ills, which are mainly a consequence of confidence being low. It is like the tendency for players' reputations to improve when they are injured - we tend to project the fact we want a quick fix to our problems onto a blank canvass and create a player that was never a realistc signing in the first place.

We do look a bit one dimensional at the minute, and its not just confidence - I'm not a huge fan of us playing 442 with a combination of Vokes, Barnes and Wood up front, because I think it makes us a bit functional - and today, against 3 Wolves centre halves, it didn't work because we couldn't get down the sides of the 3 defenders so we were easily boxed in deep. But hopefully over the next couple of weeks, Vydra will emerge as a real alternative option. I like the idea of him and Vokes in partnership and I thought that was our best combination today (its a bit Ings/Vokes). In the meantime, we just need a break and some backing.

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Re: How long

Postby Billy Balfour » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:25 pm

Given the current poor start to the season ( and end to last season ) how long should Dyche be given to turn things around?

As long as it takes. I'm as frustrated as the next fan and I hate seeing us lacking confidence on the pitch, but sacking Dyche would be an unmitigated disaster. Thank god we're not a sacking club. If we were - we'll be playing our football in L1 in a couple of years time.
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Re: How long

Postby claretspice » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:26 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:No, but they only scored once.

That is the point being made that we looked a lot more like ourselves because we only conceded one and blocked/saved a lot.

We didn't deserve a draw, but Cork should have equalised at the back post and JBG had a free hit from the edge of the box at the end.

It doesn't mean we were good, because we weren't but we certainly had a "strong jaw" again.


Agree with this. In truth, of the 7 shots on target they had, the only ones that stretched Hart (and would have any other keeper), came in two quick fire periods - and all those saves were ones Hart makes a lot.

Lancaster is also right to point to the chances that JBG and Cork had. But JBG also had two decent half chances in the first half from 20 yards. Once he sliced the chance horribly wide, once he dallied to get the ball on his left foot, and got dispossessed from 20 yards. Truth is, that is just confidence.

If we can get ahead in a game, we know we're good at seeing a game out. That's our strength. We're not good at chasing games - but at the minute we're going behind, and we're a bit short of confidence, and so we're finding that even more difficult than normal.

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Re: How long

Postby Quickenthetempo » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:28 pm

We can keep making as many excuses as we want but 16 games without a win in normal time is alarming.

I never thought Cotterills non winning run would come under threat again.

# 29
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Re: How long

Postby CBT » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:42 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:We can keep making as many excuses as we want but 16 games without a win in normal time is alarming.

I never thought Cotterills non winning run would come under threat again.


Don't think your getting it
The players aren't performing as good as last year plus injuries to key players
Dyche can only work with what he's got but it's not over not by a long shout
7th ain't happening this season but 17th(or slightly higher) hopefully will

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Re: How long

Postby joey13 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:00 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:true, but I suspect he was more annoyed at our complete lack of ability to keep and use the ball.

Only time we had sustained possession was in the last five minutes, and we didn't do anything with it.

The inability to hold the ball and use the ball is what I'm more worried about put it that way.

Wolves had 2 chances in the last 5 minutes

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Re: How long

Postby Lancasterclaret » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:02 pm

Cos we were going for it.

I'm talking about one thing, you've have to enlighten me what point you are trying make

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joey13
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Re: How long

Postby joey13 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:07 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:No, but they only scored once.

That is the point being made that we looked a lot more like ourselves because we only conceded one and blocked/saved a lot.

We didn't deserve a draw, but Cork should have equalised at the back post and JBG had a free hit from the edge of the box at the end.

It doesn't mean we were good, because we weren't but we certainly had a "strong jaw" again.

And Wolves missed gilt edge chances we can hardly take any credit for that

# 33
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Re: How long

Postby joey13 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:08 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Cos we were going for it.

I'm talking about one thing, you've have to enlighten me what point you are trying make

We didn’t have possession of the ball

# 34
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Re: How long

Postby Right_winger » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:09 pm

CBT wrote:Don't think your getting it
The players aren't performing as good as last year plus injuries to key players
Dyche can only work with what he's got but it's not over not by a long shout
7th ain't happening this season but 17th(or slightly higher) hopefully will


Let’s look at the facts here and what hand cotteril had to play with compared to Dyche. Dyche has had the resources to bolster our squad and chosen yet again to target the wrong players..

Eg we could have signed Daniel Podence on a free transfer....instead of chasing championship players for big money.

But Podence is too small and probably doesn’t work hard enough off the ball and his character can’t be interrogated over a 2 year period to see if he would fit our squad..... according to Dyche

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Re: How long

Postby Lancasterclaret » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:11 pm

Eh?

We had it a lot more in the last few minutes but did nowt with it.

No one is saying we were good, but some of us are saying that they was stuff in there that is a bit more like us.

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joey13
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Re: How long

Postby joey13 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:16 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Eh?

We had it a lot more in the last few minutes but did nowt with it.

No one is saying we were good, but some of us are saying that they was stuff in there that is a bit more like us.

I didn’t see anything that was like us
First half against Southampton was like us , since then it’s been a complete shambles

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Re: How long

Postby Lancasterclaret » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:17 pm

First half v watford?

First half (a) v Olympiakos

Whole home game v Olympiakos, Aberdeen etc etc

Its not great at the moment, but lets have a some perspective please!
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Re: How long

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:55 pm

claretspice wrote:It doesn't help that folk are getting so carried away on what is basically 2 and a half games of football, though. United/Mourinho invariably win comfortably at Burnley, so we can park that one. Which leaves away days at Fulham and today at Wolves, plus a bad half against Watford.

Signings in the summer might have made a difference, but there's a massive danger of overstating this. Even if we'd signed one or two more players in the window, there's no guarantee more than one would be starting, if any - we rarely introduce new additions wholesale. And nor would they necessarily cure our current ills, which are mainly a consequence of confidence being low. It is like the tendency for players' reputations to improve when they are injured - we tend to project the fact we want a quick fix to our problems onto a blank canvass and create a player that was never a realistc signing in the first place.

We do look a bit one dimensional at the minute, and its not just confidence - I'm not a huge fan of us playing 442 with a combination of Vokes, Barnes and Wood up front, because I think it makes us a bit functional - and today, against 3 Wolves centre halves, it didn't work because we couldn't get down the sides of the 3 defenders so we were easily boxed in deep. But hopefully over the next couple of weeks, Vydra will emerge as a real alternative option. I like the idea of him and Vokes in partnership and I thought that was our best combination today (its a bit Ings/Vokes). In the meantime, we just need a break and some backing.

Even if they hadnt started, at least we wouldnt have been chasing the game at 1 nil with only ashley westwood to bring on to change the game. Decent player that he is he has 5 goals in 7 years.

# 39
DCWat
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Re: How long

Postby DCWat » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:34 am

claretspice wrote:It doesn't help that folk are getting so carried away on what is basically 2 and a half games of football, though. United/Mourinho invariably win comfortably at Burnley, so we can park that one. Which leaves away days at Fulham and today at Wolves, plus a bad half against Watford.

Signings in the summer might have made a difference, but there's a massive danger of overstating this. Even if we'd signed one or two more players in the window, there's no guarantee more than one would be starting, if any - we rarely introduce new additions wholesale. And nor would they necessarily cure our current ills, which are mainly a consequence of confidence being low. It is like the tendency for players' reputations to improve when they are injured - we tend to project the fact we want a quick fix to our problems onto a blank canvass and create a player that was never a realistc signing in the first place.

We do look a bit one dimensional at the minute, and its not just confidence - I'm not a huge fan of us playing 442 with a combination of Vokes, Barnes and Wood up front, because I think it makes us a bit functional - and today, against 3 Wolves centre halves, it didn't work because we couldn't get down the sides of the 3 defenders so we were easily boxed in deep. But hopefully over the next couple of weeks, Vydra will emerge as a real alternative option. I like the idea of him and Vokes in partnership and I thought that was our best combination today (its a bit Ings/Vokes). In the meantime, we just need a break and some backing.


It’s not just two and a half games though, Spice. This is a hangover from the back end of last season too. I was pilloried at the time for suggesting that a poor run at the end of the season could roll into the next.

Bolstering the squad and adding some greater quality isn’t just about those players going straight into the first team, it’s about pushing those already here to keep their places. We’ve stood still on last summer, a summer that was our best opportunity for many a year to be able to really attract players.

I’m certainly not one calling for Dyche’s head. That for me would be a huge mistake but there are problems, outside of a simple lack of confidence.

Even if confidence was the sole issue, we don’t have the personnel to give players a break. A midfield choice of Hendrick, Cork and Westwood just isn’t enough.

We are 100% in a scrap this season and whilst I do think we can stay up, we certainly have to be sorting out the problems both on and off the field.

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Re: How long

Postby walter the softy » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:32 am

Right_winger wrote:Are you seriously suggesting that Dyche is a better manager than Allerdyce or Moyes? Give your head a shake sir, Sean’s record in management doesn’t even come close to either of them.


Fat Sam and Moyes have both been in management longer. It is daft to compare records on that basis. So far, Dyche's record is at least comparable if not better than Moyes at Preston and getting on towards equalling Allardyce's at Bolton. These are better benchmarks to go by.

The other aspect though is this. I think that Dyche is a man of integrity and has done a great deal for Burnley. He is honest, represents us well and we can have good reason to be proud of him. These are values that you can not get just by hiring the next journeyman. I would not want someone like Allardyce anywhere near the club even if he guaranteed premier league survival.

Maybe we see the game differently though. I know that for many it is purely a results business with no room for sentimentality. I like to think that there is more to the club than that though.

In Dyche we trust!


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