Transfer and scouting policy

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cricketfieldclarets
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Transfer and scouting policy

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:25 pm

Is there only us in the country that has a fear of signing players from abroad? I find it amazing.

We finished 7th. We got in europe. Yet we still act like a corner shop at times. 'Little old Burnley' no we arent. We are a premier league club. With history and pedigree. Yet we find excuse after excuse when it comes to bringing in the right character. Despite the fact we have signed players like Gray, Barton, Hart, Bardsley and co.

In fact its not just abroad it seems we darent look much further than the midlands. Is our scouting really that limited?

Constantly pursue WBA Players. We pursued Lansbury for a similar time.

With the odd exception we rarely sign anyone further than 2 hours away ffs!

Squad full of ex WBA, Villa, Derby, Stoke, Leeds and Boro (and where are they all now).

The club AND manager need to start looking abroad.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby ksrclaret » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:29 pm

I’ll never forget that day we signed a player from as far as the city of Norwich.

He turned out alright if a little crocked.
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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:54 pm

ksrclaret wrote:I’ll never forget that day we signed a player from as far as the city of Norwich.

He turned out alright if a little crocked.

Yep. Lifelong best mate of one of our other players. (Another who wasnt without offfield problems when we signed him).

The character thing is the biggest smokescreen ever

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby brexit » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:55 pm

Ireland?

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:57 pm

brexit wrote:Ireland?

Long aside they were all signed from the championship

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby SGr » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:09 pm

I do genuinely hate the “little old Burnley” tag
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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby evensteadiereddie » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:12 pm

I'd say the transfer and scouting policy has worked a treat. I'd rather pay a fair price for a good Championship player than any player from Europe for the same fee.
We've had injuries, we've had players losing a bit of confidence in themselves and our system, we're facing a few more teams that have spent huge sums of money on quick, direct players and we can't hack it at the moment.
The trick for Dychio now is to get those players to react much more positively. We keep the framework, nothing wrong with that but we seem to be very passive, inviting these teams, almost, to have a go. Guess what ? They do.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby bfcjg » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:20 pm

Re: Transfer and scouting policy
Having one would be a start.
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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:31 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:I'd say the transfer and scouting policy has worked a treat. I'd rather pay a fair price for a good Championship player than any player from Europe for the same fee.


Wow

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:36 pm

Championship bargains are great. But you need to add them to proven premier league (or equivelent) quality. If you only keep buying championship talent thats where you will wind up.

Lets analyse todays playersand where we got them.

Hart - signed from prem
Bardsley - relegated to championship
Tarkowski - Championship
Mee - Prem youth team
Taylor - Championship
JBG - relegated to league 1
Lennon - Prem
Hendrick - Championship
Cork - Prem
Vokes - Championship
Barnes - Championship

Vydra - Championship
Westwood - Championship
Wood - Championship

For how well we did last season to be not adding prem quality to it is totally negligent.
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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby DomBFC1882 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:37 pm

Spot on cricketfield
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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby evensteadiereddie » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:41 pm

Why "Wow ?" - to buy decent, Premier League standard players from Europe, we'd pay much, much more than we are used to and that's not taking into account fees and salaries.
We haven't got hugely wealthy backers so we have to scratch around or, if we did actually buy these magically - gifted players and they failed to deliver, we'd drop like Rovers or Bolton but without a safety net.
Whatever happens this season, we cannot let that happen.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby evensteadiereddie » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:43 pm

Of the group mentioned above, I'd say only Bardsley is unable to play the system Dyche demands.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:50 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Why "Wow ?" - to buy decent, Premier League standard players from Europe, we'd pay much, much more than we are used to and that's not taking into account fees and salaries.
We haven't got hugely wealthy backers so we have to scratch around or, if we did actually buy these magically - gifted players and they failed to deliver, we'd drop like Rovers or Bolton but without a safety net.
Whatever happens this season, we cannot let that happen.

Sorry mate but thats nonsense. Foreign players are cheaper. Both transfer wise and wages. And almost all players from around europe want the exposure and money the prem brings.

We have far more money than all but the elite european clubs. And even more exposure.
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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby evensteadiereddie » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:06 pm

The cheap foreign players are cheap for a reason.
Isn't it strange that last season, our good, solid squad, full of honest Brits with the odd foreigner thrown in were lauded as being brilliant at showing the money-bags clubs how it could, and should, be done and now, after five whole games, that strategy was clearly nonsense, we're as good as finished and the whole fabric of the team should be ripped apart ?

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby jojomk1 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:12 pm

bfcjg wrote:Re: Transfer and scouting policy
Having one would be a start.


We do have one

But SD has the final say on everything

Hence our futile chase for Jay Rod and Dawson (his personal choices with no plan B until the last few days)

Our only midfield target was Clucas - a typical SD choice of graft but little skill

Somebody within that recruitment team alerted SD to Defour but he still had to go out to Belgium to watch the guy himself before sanctioning the deal

SD believes he is the only one who knows what's best for BFC

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:12 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:The cheap foreign players are cheap for a reason.

Correct. They are. Because Burnley earn more money than Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV Eindhoven combined. Well actually more than the whole dutch league combined but there you go.

Same goes for Sporting Lisbon, Porto and Benfica.

Or even Atletico Madrid.

I know its hard to fathom. being little old Burnley. But there we go. We made 150m or so in tv money alome last season. We were in europe. Our stock was the highest it will ever be. There was a whole host of reasons why players from around the world would jump at the chance to sign for us. And we chose to add to our small squad with an emergency keeper a backup defender amd another injured striker.
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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby Dyched » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:14 pm

Abysmal.

£100s of millions later and we’re no better than we were with Duff, Shackell, Jones, Boyd, Marney and co

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby Dyched » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:16 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Correct. They are. Because Burnley earn more money than Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV Eindhoven combined. Well actually more than the whole dutch league combined but there you go.

Same goes for Sporting Lisbon, Porto and Benfica.

Or even Atletico Madrid.

I know its hard to fathom. being little old Burnley. But there we go. We made 150m or so in tv money alome last season. We were in europe. Our stock was the highest it will ever be. There was a whole host of reasons why players from around the world would jump at the chance to sign for us. And we chose to add to our small squad with an emergency keeper a backup defender amd another injured striker.


Exactly that. Last January we were in a position that only the top 6 could and ourselves could guarantee 18 months PL football. Missed a huge opportunity.
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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby Right_winger » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:16 pm

Dyched wrote:Abysmal.

£100s of millions later and we’re no better than we were with Duff, Shackell, Jones, Boyd, Marney and co



Jones *shudder* that’s the type of limited player Dyche loves.

Give me A defour over a Jones any day of the week.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby evensteadiereddie » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:19 pm

And who were these lads queueing up to join us ? Surely any agent worth their salt would have been touting his latest prodigy and making us an offer we couldn't refuse if we have so much appeal ?

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:19 pm

As per deleted thread. We have zero pace. Zero creativity.

Even Dyche stalwarts like Barnes havent shown any of the club mantra minimum requirement maxium effort.
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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby Dyched » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:19 pm

Right_winger wrote:Jones *shudder* that’s the type of limited player Dyche loves.

Give me A defour over a Jones any day of the week.


Thats exactly my point. “Better” individual players but playing the same old shite

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby CoolClaret » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:19 pm

Dyched wrote:Abysmal.

£100s of millions later and we’re no better than we were with Duff, Shackell, Jones, Boyd, Marney and co


Sadly, I'm starting to agree....

It's hard to think where the **** the money has gone.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:20 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:And who were these lads queueing up to join us ? Surely any agent worth their salt would have been touting his latest prodigy and making us an offer we couldn't refuse if we have so much appeal ?

They could be stood on Harry Potts way and we wouldnt approach them!!!

Defour is the massive exception to the rule.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby evensteadiereddie » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:21 pm

Dyched wrote:Abysmal.

£100s of millions later and we’re no better than we were with Duff, Shackell, Jones, Boyd, Marney and co


You're joking, right ?

We're only half way through September.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby Dyched » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:22 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:You're joking, right ?

We're only half way through September.


Has the football improved since we’ve received 4 yes FOUR lots of PL money?

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby joey13 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:22 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:And who were these lads queueing up to join us ? Surely any agent worth their salt would have been touting his latest prodigy and making us an offer we couldn't refuse if we have so much appeal ?

How do you know agents weren’t touting their latest prodigy ?
And it’s just our Board are to tight/dim to make realistic offers

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby CharlieinNewMexico » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:09 am

Dyched wrote:Has the football improved since we’ve received 4 yes FOUR lots of PL money?


To be fair the football from Everton through to Bournemouth and Leicester last year was sublime.

Then Brady and Defour got injured and we've gone back to the dark ages.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby Jamesy » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:25 am

CharlieinNewMexico wrote:To be fair the football from Everton through to Bournemouth and Leicester last year was sublime.

Then Brady and Defour got injured and we've gone back to the dark ages.


Sublime? Sorry, but the football was ok with those two in the side but never sublime.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby OssyClaret » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:00 am

We don’t need to rip everything that we stand for apart.

Just adding another layer to what we do would be great, by harvesting the top young talent in the country to recreate the stock of players that our older fans talk fondly of with that constant conveyor belt of talent.

We need to be able to identify the likes of Ampadu, Brooks, Sessegnon, Maddison, Gomez, Demarai Gray, Cook, Maguire, Alli, Patrick Roberts, Lookman and Calvert-Lewin early in their careers. All on that list now we could have realistically targeted from championship, league 1 and league 2 clubs now that we are in the position we are in.

Granted getting it right is the hard thing and you will always miss played but the disappointing thing for me is that we don’t even appear to be looking in this market.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby evensteadiereddie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:51 am

joey13 wrote:How do you know agents weren’t touting their latest prodigy ?
And it’s just our Board are to tight/dim to make realistic offers


And how do you know they were ?

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby fidelcastro » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:57 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:And how do you know they were ?


He doesn't.

It's called agenda driven twaddle.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby Top Claret » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:08 am

Looking at some of the previous transfer windows, we do not appear to have a transfer and scouting policy.

All of our rivals BHA, Fulham, Huddersfield, Watford to name a few freshen up there squads each summer with numerous players from around the globe. All we appear capable of doing is dragging our sad arses around the championship with our begging bowl, making silly pointless offers, that more than often get turned down.
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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby randomclaret2 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:13 am

Remember when we used to sign players from France and Greece ?

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby evensteadiereddie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:34 am

Top Claret wrote:Looking at some of the previous transfer windows, we do not appear to have a transfer and scouting policy.

All of our rivals BHA, Fulham, Huddersfield, Watford to name a few freshen up there squads each summer with numerous players from around the globe. All we appear capable of doing is dragging our sad arses around the championship with our begging bowl, making silly pointless offers, that more than often get turned down.


BHA, Fulham and Watford have one common denominator. Wealthy owners who will spend anything to avoid relegation.
Huddersfield's transfer policy does not, in spite of their "freshening up", appear to be particularly successful.
:roll:

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby randomclaret2 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:06 am

Perhaps we could aim for a happy medium.Just because we dont have a Billionaire benefactor doesnt mean we cant sign players from abroad.
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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby joey13 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:22 pm

fidelcastro wrote:He doesn't.

It's called agenda driven twaddle.

Unlike yours , look up the word irony in the dictionary it’s a big book with definitions of lots of words, as basic logic seems to pass you by

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby jurek » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:30 pm

Our transfer and scouting policy is limited or has been by a number of factors:

Not sure what the order might be but first of all:

Our wage limit.
Not sure what salary levels are at present but
35-40k a week seemed the maximum we were/are willing to pay.

How much we are willing to pay.
15m has been the most we have paid for any player so far.
Rumour had it that we were willing to break that this summer but that never happened.

We haven't really engaged with the overseas market.
Apart from Defour we seem reluctant to get into the European/overseas market.
SD's insistance on the right characters and background might have something to do with it.
But insufficient investment in overseas scouts might also be a factor.

Our inability to identify many if any young, up and coming players - be it home based or from overseas.
These players might be a risk but can be acquired for less than 15m and also fit within the wage structure.

We haven't really brought in anyone who could be described as exciting and talented
and can make the grade, so to speak, relatively quickly.

Our ability to bring on our own young talent hasn't as yet, been forthcoming either
and doesn't look as if it will either. Certainly not for this season.

A radical change needs to occur but I doubt it will and we'll be at the mercy of
the overpriced January market. I suspect we'd prefer to go down than risk spending too much.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby SGr » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:06 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:Perhaps we could aim for a happy medium.Just because we dont have a Billionaire benefactor doesnt mean we cant sign players from abroad.


The fact we don’t have a billionaire benefactor is exactly the reason we should be signing players from abroad :?
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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby SGr » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:07 pm

Our recruitment policies leave us between a rock and a hard place.

We want players who have the quality, who are domestic, but are good value. Sadly, they’re in extremely short supply, if they do exist at all. Bizarre.

EDIT: I say good value - I mean they don’t cost much up front. James Maddison and Adama Traore were both good value, in positions we needed, and played in the championship, but they cost more than £1.25 + add ons so naturally we didn’t even remotely consider them.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby tiger76 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:14 pm

OssyClaret wrote:We don’t need to rip everything that we stand for apart.

Just adding another layer to what we do would be great, by harvesting the top young talent in the country to recreate the stock of players that our older fans talk fondly of with that constant conveyor belt of talent.

We need to be able to identify the likes of Ampadu, Brooks, Sessegnon, Maddison, Gomez, Demarai Gray, Cook, Maguire, Alli, Patrick Roberts, Lookman and Calvert-Lewin early in their careers. All on that list now we could have realistically targeted from championship, league 1 and league 2 clubs now that we are in the position we are in.

Granted getting it right is the hard thing and you will always miss played but the disappointing thing for me is that we don’t even appear to be looking in this market.


If we aren't going top pay silly money (20 million +) on Championship players,i can understand this strategy but there must be untapped gems in the lower leagues,even non-league,just off the top of my head,Austin,Ian Wright in an earlier era,and most notably Jamie Vardy all learned their trade in the grassroots.

Whether this reluctance to sign young talent is from Dyche or the board i don't know,and what exactly do our scouts do,never mind the overseas market,we don't appear to pursue any talent from Scotland,Wales or Ireland,John Mcginn is a prime example only 23 went to Villa this summer for around 3/4 million,will he make the grade time will tell but he has a creativity and an eye for goal,which none of our midfielders bar Cork have,potentially could have been Defour's successor.

Also we don't sell the club to upcoming youngsters,take Michael Keane for example he developed from an average Championship loanee,to become an England international,ditto Tarks and Trippier,we should use these players as evidence that if they work hard and impress,international call-ups and big money moves could arise frpm joining BFC.

The real danger is if we fall through the trapdoor into the Championship,it will be twice as hard to attract these developing talents,as even with the parachute payments,we will struggle to return to the top table,and other Championship clubs have major backers.

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby fidelcastro » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:58 am

joey13 wrote:Unlike yours , look up the word irony in the dictionary it’s a big book with definitions of lots of words, as basic logic seems to pass you by


I certainly don't need English lessons from you.

:roll:

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Re: Transfer and scouting policy

Postby DCWat » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:36 am

tiger76 wrote:If we aren't going top pay silly money (20 million +) on Championship players,i can understand this strategy but there must be untapped gems in the lower leagues,even non-league,just off the top of my head,Austin,Ian Wright in an earlier era,and most notably Jamie Vardy all learned their trade in the grassroots.

Whether this reluctance to sign young talent is from Dyche or the board i don't know,and what exactly do our scouts do,never mind the overseas market,we don't appear to pursue any talent from Scotland,Wales or Ireland,John Mcginn is a prime example only 23 went to Villa this summer for around 3/4 million,will he make the grade time will tell but he has a creativity and an eye for goal,which none of our midfielders bar Cork have,potentially could have been Defour's successor.

Also we don't sell the club to upcoming youngsters,take Michael Keane for example he developed from an average Championship loanee,to become an England international,ditto Tarks and Trippier,we should use these players as evidence that if they work hard and impress,international call-ups and big money moves could arise frpm joining BFC.

The real danger is if we fall through the trapdoor into the Championship,it will be twice as hard to attract these developing talents,as even with the parachute payments,we will struggle to return to the top table,and other Championship clubs have major backers.


The recent success of previous players to have an opportunity at Burnley (Keane, Tarkowski, Mee, Heaton, Pope, Trippier, Mee, Austin, Ings to name a few) won’t go unnoticed. To suggest we won’t use these examples as part of a recruitment strategy is probably not true.

I’m not sure how attainable they are, but there must be a number of players from England’s recent youth tournament wins, as various age groups, who would benefit from game time.

They won’t all be ready, attainable or willing to move, but with Southgate stating that many of these players need to be playing, there is potentially a market here for us, be it on loan or a permanent signing.

We don’t particularly utilise the loan market well and this seems to be an area that we might also be able to exploit to a better level.

European scouting is blatantly an issue, for whatever reason but again, it’s another market that we can’t or won’t exploit, never mind further afield such as north Africa.

Add all of the above to the fact that Dyche has very strict requirements in terms of character and it’s obvious that we are massively limiting the players that we have to choose from.

Select some players deemed to be appropriate and we are then hoping that we can beat off any competition, offer a fee acceptable to the selling club and agree a suitable salary package with the player.

It doesn’t surprise me that we are then stuck with what appears to be just one or two options available to us.

The Board and Dyche need to address this.


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