Duff on F365

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MrMeeseeks
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Duff on F365

Post by MrMeeseeks » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:28 pm

See Michael Duff has been picked out by Football365 as one of 6 football league managers ‘defying expectations this season’.

Even suggesting he could find himself back at Burnley in the future.

Really pleased to see him doing well at Cheltenham.

https://www.football365.com/news/six-ef ... owyer-neil
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Re: Duff on F365

Post by conyoviejo » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:11 pm

He would be my one of my choices when Dyche is sacked or leaves.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Goobs » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:45 pm

conyoviejo wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:11 pm
He would be my one of my choices when Dyche is sacked or leaves.
What, based on a decent half season in league 2? Or simply the fact that he played for us for a long time?
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Re: Duff on F365

Post by KRBFC » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:46 pm

conyoviejo wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:11 pm
He would be my one of my choices when Dyche is sacked or leaves.
High expectations then if we’re poaching a League Two manager

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by TVC15 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:02 pm

Maybe we should go for Silva instead ? - he’s the next big thing according to KRBFC and a much better manager than ours.
We could employ Silva - have a good run of 5 or 6 games then a bad run of 12 games then sack him and let him walk away with £15m again.....just like all his other clubs.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by dsr » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:04 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:46 pm
High expectations then if we’re poaching a League Two manager
Is it necessarily right to assume that getting a manager from a lower league club is a mistake? For example, we poached a manager from Shrewsbury in 1958 - was it a mistake?
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Re: Duff on F365

Post by conyoviejo » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:25 pm

Goobs wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:45 pm
What, based on a decent half season in league 2? Or simply the fact that he played for us for a long time?
He would be available for what the board would want to spend on a manager..

The Watford manager would be on my radar as well. Maybe not on the Boards though.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Goobs » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:29 pm

conyoviejo wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:25 pm
He would be available for what the board would want to spend on a manager..

The Watford manager would be on my radar as well. Maybe not on the Boards though.
I think you are wrong unless he gets them promoted and does well in league one and we are relegated before Dyche leaves.

I could see Cowley as an option if he has a good season next year and I think Pearson is massively unrealistic and I wouldn't want him here either.

All in all though I hope SD is here for a good few more years yet as for me he is still the best man for the job and has my full trust.
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Re: Duff on F365

Post by KRBFC » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:52 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:04 pm
Is it necessarily right to assume that getting a manager from a lower league club is a mistake? For example, we poached a manager from Shrewsbury in 1958 - was it a mistake?
Good old 1958, quite relevant to 2020 if I do say so myself.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by dsr » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:01 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:52 pm
Good old 1958, quite relevant to 2020 if I do say so myself.
Just because a manager starts at the bottom doesn't mean he can't reach the top. Sheff United got Wilder from Northampton. Is that modern enough?
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Re: Duff on F365

Post by dougcollins » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:05 pm

Goobs wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:45 pm
What, based on a decent half season in league 2? Or simply the fact that he played for us for a long time?

Cos he's not a puff?
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Re: Duff on F365

Post by conyoviejo » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:18 pm

Goobs wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:29 pm
I think you are wrong unless he gets them promoted and does well in league one and we are relegated before Dyche leaves.

I could see Cowley as an option if he has a good season next year and I think Pearson is massively unrealistic and I wouldn't want him here either.

All in all though I hope SD is here for a good few more years yet as for me he is still the best man for the job and has my full trust.
I agree with you on SD,he's doing great with what he has got to work with.. 8-)

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by KRBFC » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:06 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:01 pm
Just because a manager starts at the bottom doesn't mean he can't reach the top. Sheff United got Wilder from Northampton. Is that modern enough?
You’re right of course they can reach the top but I swear Sheff United were in League One, I’m almost certain Northampton were also in League One the season Wilder moved. League One club to League One club isn’t even comparable to League Two to Premier League management.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Spiral » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:01 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:06 pm
You’re right of course they can reach the top but I swear Sheff United were in League One, I’m almost certain Northampton were also in League One the season Wilder moved. League One club to League One club isn’t even comparable to League Two to Premier League management.
If football were a role playing game then yes, a league two manager fighting a premier league boss level, he'd get killed. Underpowered, under-resourced, he'd need a bit more level grinding to stand half a chance in the PL bossfight, but football management is not a videogame and Wilder is cutting it at PL level despite his inexperience. Same could be said of Dyche a few years back, though he'd probably be considered 'experienced' by now. Bear in mind Dyche probably won't be leaving until at the very least the summer of 2021, we'll have a better understanding of Duff's ability in the intervening 18 months. If he keeps Cheltenham performing the way they are he'd be a much better fit for our club than whatever flavour of the month fancies us as a stepping stone, considering the relative budget constraints and his understanding of the club's structure and working culture. Perfectly viable appointment if it ever came to it and if he continues his trajectory. Don't know how anyone could scoff at it.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by dsr » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:30 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:06 pm
You’re right of course they can reach the top but I swear Sheff United were in League One, I’m almost certain Northampton were also in League One the season Wilder moved. League One club to League One club isn’t even comparable to League Two to Premier League management.
Clough started at Hartlepool, Shankly started at Carlisle, Ferguson started at East Stirling. Of course, you may be right that the game has changed and these three would all be unambitious signings nowadays; but I have a suspicion that any of the three would still make top managers if transplanted to 2020.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by KRBFC » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:00 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:30 pm
Clough started at Hartlepool, Shankly started at Carlisle, Ferguson started at East Stirling. Of course, you may be right that the game has changed and these three would all be unambitious signings nowadays; but I have a suspicion that any of the three would still make top managers if transplanted to 2020.
What are you even saying? Maybe in 5-10 years Duff will have gained the experience and done well enough to qualify for a PL job.

You mention Fergie started at East Stirling but forget he gradually stepped up levels as he warranted a better job. He didn’t go from 6 months at East Stirling to Man United you know? So again it’s not even comparable, had you of said Duff would do 2 years at Cheltenham then step up to the Championship and do well then I’d understand him warranting a Premier League job.

I don’t know what you don’t understand, it’s quite a simple concept, you start low level and gradually work your way up while gaining experience along the way. You keep giving examples of that concept but seemingly don’t understand it.

Let’s use your example of Wilder to further expand on that concept.

Wilder: League Two (Northampton) -> League One (Sheff United) -> Championship -> Premier League.


Duff: League Two (Cheltenham) -> Premier League (Burnley)

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:12 pm

Ferguson definitely ‘gradually stepped up levels’ going from Aberdeen to Man Utd.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Goobs » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:32 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:12 pm
Ferguson definitely ‘gradually stepped up levels’ going from Aberdeen to Man Utd.
The gap between the SpL and EpL (as they are named now) wasn't as big as it is now and United were awful whereas Aberdeen were winning European trophies when he took over at United so not that big a step up really.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Murger » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:56 am

Goobs wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:32 pm
The gap between the SpL and EpL (as they are named now) wasn't as big as it is now and United were awful whereas Aberdeen were winning European trophies when he took over at United so not that big a step up really.
Not even comparable. Fergie had a track record of success before he got the United job.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Zlatan » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:24 am

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:06 pm
You’re right of course they can reach the top but I swear Sheff United were in League One, I’m almost certain Northampton were also in League One the season Wilder moved. League One club to League One club isn’t even comparable to League Two to Premier League management.
Cheltenham currently sit in 3rd in league 2, it’s perfectly feasible that they could be challenging for promotion to the championship next season. Duff is doing well, don’t discount someone based upon their current position - that is something that describes where they are not where they could be.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by KRBFC » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:47 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:24 am
Cheltenham currently sit in 3rd in league 2, it’s perfectly feasible that they could be challenging for promotion to the championship next season. Duff is doing well, don’t discount someone based upon their current position - that is something that describes where they are not where they could be.
I didn’t discount him long term based on his current position, I discounted him from becoming Burnley manager soon based on his current position, maybe in 5 years time when he’s got Cheltenham promoted to League One and took a Championship job and done well he’d be a perfect candidate for a PL job.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:51 pm

I love the notion that a random article with someone saying a manager of Cheltenham could be a Burnley manager = the club lining up Duff to replace Dyche

Still some can't help themselves

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by KRBFC » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:51 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:12 pm
Ferguson definitely ‘gradually stepped up levels’ going from Aberdeen to Man Utd.
He went from East Stirling to St Mirren to Aberdeen, of course he gained experience and gradually stepped up levels it’s what most managers do.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by KRBFC » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:53 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:51 pm
I love the notion that a random article with someone saying a manager of Cheltenham could be a Burnley manager = the club lining up Duff to replace Dyche

Still some can't help themselves
Where did anybody say the club were lining up Duff to replace Dyche?

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:01 pm

Hopefully Duff will earn the right to be our manager in the future. He seems like a good guy.

Being a popular ex player doesn’t earn you the right, as we experienced not long ago.
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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Down_Rover » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:30 pm

I would rather go for a manager like Duff who is untried at this level, and therefore has unmeasurable potential, than a failed manager with Premier League experience. WE know how good the latter is whereas Duff has yet to reach his ceiling. He knows the club too.

No-one had heard of Dyche and few had heard of Howe when we appointed them
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Re: Duff on F365

Post by IanMcL » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:08 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:12 pm
Ferguson definitely ‘gradually stepped up levels’ going from Aberdeen to Man Utd.
Where he had won a European trophy! That may qualify as a downgrade, at that time!

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:59 pm

Down_Rover wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:30 pm
I would rather go for a manager like Duff who is untried at this level, and therefore has unmeasurable potential, than a failed manager with Premier League experience. WE know how good the latter is whereas Duff has yet to reach his ceiling. He knows the club too.

No-one had heard of Dyche and few had heard of Howe when we appointed them
Or Coyle. St. Johnstone wasn't it?

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Goobs » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:54 pm

Down_Rover wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:30 pm
I would rather go for a manager like Duff who is untried at this level, and therefore has unmeasurable potential, than a failed manager with Premier League experience. WE know how good the latter is whereas Duff has yet to reach his ceiling. He knows the club too.

No-one had heard of Dyche and few had heard of Howe when we appointed them
No one had heard of Howe or Dyche? howe was doing a great job at Bournemouth and was widely regarded as one of the best up and coming managers and Sean Dyche had done a very good (albeit short -term) job with a Watford team who were one of the favourites to go down before he took over.

The only way people would not have heard of them would be if they only watch the premier league or don't like football.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:06 pm

Down_Rover wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:30 pm
No-one had heard of Dyche and few had heard of Howe when we appointed them
Yes they had. Dyche has just guided a cash strapped side to 11th in the league we were in.
Howe was extremely highly rated and linked with a number of jobs because of the work he’d done at Bournemouth.

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:19 pm

Funny, isn't it?
The OP quotes an article that can see Mike Duff at Burnley IN THE F"""ING FUTURE, and virtually every poster assumes he will make the jump directly from managing Cheltenham :x :x
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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Down_Rover » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:37 pm

Goobs wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:54 pm
No one had heard of Howe or Dyche? howe was doing a great job at Bournemouth and was widely regarded as one of the best up and coming managers and Sean Dyche had done a very good (albeit short -term) job with a Watford team who were one of the favourites to go down before he took over.

The only way people would not have heard of them would be if they only watch the premier league or don't like football.
But nobody in the PL had heard of them. Talk about argument for arguments sake

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Down_Rover » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:39 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:06 pm
Yes they had. Dyche has just guided a cash strapped side to 11th in the league we were in.
Howe was extremely highly rated and linked with a number of jobs because of the work he’d done at Bournemouth.
But nobody in the PL had heard of them. Talk about argument for arguments sake

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:00 pm

Nobody?

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by Down_Rover » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:43 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:00 pm
Nobody?
Nobody else had deemed them potential PL managers ahead of Burnley. And, as mentioned above Owen Coyle

I am simply trying to make the point that relatively untried managers are a better pond to fish in than one full of experienced has been s

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Re: Duff on F365

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:47 am

Down_Rover wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:43 am
Nobody else had deemed them potential PL managers ahead of Burnley. And, as mentioned above Owen Coyle

I am simply trying to make the point that relatively untried managers are a better pond to fish in than one full of experienced has been s
I have to agree about the has beens, it does look as though clubs are moving away from the Pulis/Allardice/Hughes type of merry-go-round.

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