Paul Waine wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:05 pm

My guess is that, based on our transfer window activity, ALK/VSL have added more investors than we are aware of.

Of course, we will know in time. On the other hand, we should not expect every new investor to be introduced to the media and everyone at Turf Moor in the manner that JJ and Kealia Watt or the Dude Perfect guys. VSL allows individuals to join as investors without any need to make their investment public if that's what they desire.

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:22 pm

This is a question for the finance and ownership experts on here, Chester Perry may know the answer. What are the rules if any in football managers being part of ownership groups? Is it possible for Kompany to be part of the ownership group investing in the Belgium club but not be part of the ownership group at Burnley?

claret wizard wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:57 pm

Kompany already owns a football club in Belgium, that will probably have some bearing on how involved he can be.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BX_Brussels

Paul Waine wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:02 pm

It would be easy, from a financial perspective, for Vincent Kompany to be an investor in VSL and therefore be an investor in the ownership of both Burnley and any KV Kortrijk, (or another other club that ALK/VSL invested in). I can't think of any football regulations (Premier League, FA, UEFA, FIFA) that would ban a football manager/coach from having an ownership stake in the club they are the coach for. However, football is a lot more used to a situation where the owners can fire the manager. OK, it can also happen that a manager who is also an investor can still be fired as the manager. Thinking of other clubs, was Alex Ferguson also a shareholder in ManU - shares are listed on NY stock exchange, so no reason why not. American employers are also a lot keener to reward employees with shares and share options.

All that without the separate information that Vincent Kompany has his own business activities.

Be great if Alan Pace has found a way to keep his favourite football manager interested and involved with the club for a long, long time.

UTC

aggi wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:18 am

I'd be amazed if Kompany had any shares in Burnley or ALK. The shares aren't publicly traded and it's pretty likely Kompany will have left before the club is sold so it would be difficult to realise the value of them at that point.

Having shares in Burnley whilst managing another club, particularly in the same division, would be terrible optics even if there aren't specific rules against it.

Paul Waine wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:55 am

Hi aggi, we can all be 100% certain Vincent Kompany doesn't have any shares in either "Burnley or ALK." However. it is not impossible that Vincent Kompany may be an investor in VSL. The whole idea of these US partnerships (not just for sports) is that investors can buy in and exit as they choose.

I agree that having a major shareholding in one football club while being involved in another football club in the same pyramid would be a massive "no, no" - and not, just "terrible optics." That would go right to the integrity of the league. However, having a small investment with no direct involvement and control in the club that the small investment is in would not conflict with being the manager, player or any other senior role in another club. Footballers aren't allowed to place bets on football. There's no rule that I'm aware of (* see note) that a Manchester City player (or any other footballer) can't be a shareholder in Manchester United - using this as an example because ManU are one of the few publicly listed football clubs in the UK.

* Note: It's possible that Manchester City (in this example) have internal rules that require their employees to declare their shareholdings in other football club - just as all banks and others in the financial sector require their staff to declare their shareholdings in other banks plus any other entities, including clients and potential clients, that might result in conflicts of interest.

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:44 am

If Kompany does have shares in VSL they are perhaps more likely to be Incentive Shares via either via his role as an employee or via the service partner relationship of MUD Analytics

I have an article in the next issue of the London Clarets Magazine 'Something to write home about' (out next week - look for a copy in pubs before the game or in the new Burnley FC archive room at Burnley Central Library )that looks at what I found in Jersey about VSL and Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd together with other updates on the known ALK/VSL structure. It contains this about Incentive shares

"Notably, Incentive shares can be awarded to employees and service providers, and are retained
while service continues, though they must be returned, without cost, once that service has been
completed/terminated. It sounds like they are there to provide a bonus if dividends or other
profits are collected. Appleby Global Services, in some guise, may have held/hold such shares. As
may other entities. ‘Mission to Burnley’ appeared to show a number of such entities, providing
advisory services to the owners at a deeply engaged level. Though not identified as such, that
appeared to include MUD Analytics Limited, of whom our manager is a co-owner alongside Lee
Mooney, who featured a number of times in boardroom scenes wearing full Burnley FC staff kit
across the series."

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:00 pm

I’m pretty certain we’ve had some significant investment and I don’t mean DP.

Pace talks about securing investment as being easier when the team is playing well in Mission to Burnley.

As PW says, some will be silent investors but it’s the ones like JJ and DP that excite me the most. Russell Ball also suggested “others will come on board” in his TurfCast interview.

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:18 pm

The introduction of Vlad Torgovnik to the BFC board may be the clearest indication of new investment and possibly significant investment in ALK/VSL - though as we saw in 'MtB' not all board members are directors - particularly thinking of Adrian Bettridge, who I am assuming is also part of the ownership group.

What does seem apparent is that there are a growing number of minor investors in ALK/VSL who are not publicised - not unsurprisingly they share common background and judging by posts on social media, it is that community which has been a consistent source for introducing new people to the club/ownership group

Paul Waine wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 25, 2023 9:04 am

Hi CP, you've got something factually wrong with "not all board members are directors." The full description of the group that directs any business is the "board of directors." The board consists of all those people who are named on Companies House filings as being directors (similar arrangements in other countries). A person can seek to avoid their responsibilities for the actions of a business that they control by not being registered as a director, but they can be found to be a "shadow director." The sanction for businesses that fail and transgress in various ways is often banning some or all of the directors (and shadow directors) from acting as a director of any business for a number of years.

Mission to Burnley showed a number of meetings, but the film didn't state which, if any of them, were formal board meetings of either BFCHL or the club. Board meetings will often invite other people to present to the board and join the board discussions. We saw Vincent Kompany and others in meetings with some of the club's directors, We didn't see the formalities that declared a certain meeting as a Board of Directors' meeting: record of directors attending in person, others maybe on video call and which ones were absent; agenda; minutes of previous meeting etc. Only the directors take formal decisions on behalf of the board, others presenting to the board may have already left the meeting before formal board decisions are made.

Who's Adrian Bettridge? Was he named in Mission to Burnley? I guess I need to watch and enjoy it again.

Vlad Torgovnik joining the board of directors is, of course, evidence that there has been investment in ALK/VSL. It's possible that he's invested his own money in ALK - hence becoming a director. Given that he is Chief Information Officer at Millenium it's not certain that Millenium has also invested in ALK/VSL. More news to come sometime, possibly.

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:33 am

That is how i would normally take it - but for the fact that Adrian Bettridge was clearly identified as being a member of the Burnley FC Board in 'MtB' - he appeared across most of the meetings







- his background is in finance (actual in consulting in the financial sector) and no need to guess his faith, he seem to be actively introducing other CoLDS members to the club/ownership though though

https://www.baringa.com/en/people/exper ... bettridge/

https://byums.byu.edu/events/details/by ... el-london/

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/adrian-bettr ... din.com%2F

he appears to be relatively high ranking in the CoLDS set-up, being a member of the 7th quorum of the seventies
https://www.deseret.com/2023/3/30/23663 ... ip-session

There is relatively little about him on the web though this gives an insight to how he sells himself professionally

https://www.sourceglobalresearch.com/po ... leadership

Paul Waine wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 25, 2023 12:12 pm

Thanks, CP. As I said I will need to watch Mission to Burnley again. As I posted earlier, none of the meetings shown in Mission to Burnley we stated to be "Board meetings." I wonder if some of these people in the meetings represent parts of the ALK/VSL hierarchy above the BFCHL group - and are attending in the capacity of consultants (and management fees). ALK/VSL will be very careful to avoid creating a "permanent establishment" issue in the UK by holding board meetings of any of the non-UK parts of the larger corporate structure.

I know people at Baringa from my working days. Baringa started out as an energy risk software firm and has extended into financial risk management in one direction and consultancy in another direction. It's also got an extensive "world wide" reach. Yes, it's grown very successfully since I first heard of them. It's a small world - I'd expect Baringa and John B's Freight Investor Services may possibly know each other quite well.

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 25, 2023 12:12 pm

The other name to feature in 'MtB' was Clayton Wyatt, he was identified as an advisor to the Board of the club, his background is property, though appears to be something of a specialist (guru) in funding and cash flows -he now runs a consultancy - and yes he is a member of CoLDS

Clayton Wyatt - advisor.JPG (20.57 KiB) Viewed 2983 times

Clayton Wyatt - advisor.JPG


https://www.linkedin.com/in/clayton-wya ... e.co.uk%2F

https://www.crunchbase.com/person/clayton-wyatt-4032

Father Jack wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 25, 2023 1:50 pm

Would be interesting to know who the blurred names are on this zoom call. Assume these board members ticked the no publicity box when they signed up.

Father Jack wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:13 pm

Helps if I upload the picture which failed when I posted the above