Our mentality - both club and fans

[Culvert_for_one]

Can I just get an idea where we see ourselves going in the next 10 years or even 5 years?

Taken me a day or two to actually digest how bad the result at weekend was and for what? So we can survive another year in the premier league. Okay but what then next year? Survive again? Okay and the next time to survive again? And again and again until we inevitably go down because we will, like the Stokes, West Brom’s and Norwich’s of this world we WILL eventually go down.

So why are we not going for a cup that looking at teams around us with a full strength team we could have a proper go at. Beat Norwich at home and we are in last 16! Few years back we got knocked out by Lincoln to go into last 8 ffs!

What about the league cup argument there for that route to success being even more realistic

Do we not want something to look back on before we sink again?

Boggles the mind our mentality at the minute, are people expecting us to suddenly start challenging for the league or something?

[claretonthecoast1882]

In 10 years time we will be mid table in the championship with crowds of 10k and people moaning about the Lincoln result

[Steve1956]

Greed...its ruined the game.

[ElectroClaret]

In ten years time, hopefully we'll still be in the Premier League.
That's where it starts and thats where it ends for me.

Just my opinion.

[Culvert_for_one]

In ten years time, hopefully we'll still be in the Premier League.
That's where it starts and thats where it ends for me.

Just my opinion.

Why? Need more of an explanation. What is so exciting about finishing 14-17th in the premier league?

[ashtonlongsider]

Why? Need more of an explanation. What is so exciting about finishing 14-17th in the premier league?

£100m plus per season and the added coverage and financial benefits the PL brings to the town. Not saying there's anything wrong in your sentiments but money is the bottom line.

[BertiesBeehole]

Why? Need more of an explanation. What is so exciting about finishing 14-17th in the premier league?

How about the odd 7th and Europe?

[thatdberight]

How about the odd 7th and Europe?

... which we will try to get out of as quickly as possible, citing our bad form at the start of 2018/19 season...

[Culvert_for_one]

How about the odd 7th and Europe?

Yeah I completely agree and then what a slap in the face it was when they treated it like an inconvenient league cup competition

[claretonthecoast1882]

Yeah I completely agree and then what a slap in the face it was when they treated it like an inconvenient league cup competition

We lost 1 in 6 games in Europe, for all the clamour we failed to sell out any home game in Europe, but manage to sell out against Man Utd every year

[Culvert_for_one]

We lost 1 in 6 games in Europe, for all the clamour we failed to sell out any home game in Europe, but manage to sell out against Man Utd every year

Hence my post how worrying of a mentality is that? We didn’t win by the way either we drew all 4 and scabbed through on extra time then drew the final one when we was already out. Imagine taking it seriously with a proper team, getting through to groups and if we would’ve done I’m sure the sell out stadium would’ve followed

[Burnley1989]

I do think some people would prefer to brag about money in the bank, I also see both sides of the argument though.

[Culvert_for_one]

I do think some people would prefer to brag about money in the bank, I also see both sides of the argument though.

Yeah, money in the clubs bank suppose that answers their mentality question of course money driven. But not the fans? Money certainly isn’t in our bank is it haha

[claretonthecoast1882]

Hence my post how worrying of a mentality is that? We didn’t win by the way either we drew all 4 and scabbed through on extra time then drew the final one when we was already out. Imagine taking it seriously with a proper team, getting through to groups and if we would’ve done I’m sure the sell out stadium would’ve followed

We always seem to be lucky when we win.

[Culvert_for_one]

We always seem to be lucky when we win.

In extra time any team who wins is lucky because you haven’t been able to do it over the 90 mins

[basil6345789]

We aim to be in the middle of the Premiership, assisted by a steady feed of players from our academy - that''s why we've invested in it.

[Culvert_for_one]

We aim to be in the middle of the Premiership, assisted by a steady feed of players from our academy - that''s why we've invested in it.

And how long do you think that plan will last? Look at Stoke now

[Bosscat]

I have this mental picture of a bunch of posters on here, in ten years time whinging about being in the Championship (or lower) and bemoaning the fact we weren't in the Premier League, like we were '10 years ago' beating Man U at Old Trafford etc etc etc.

[CaptJohn]

I've thought long and hard about this issue and have to admit that my levels of enjoyment have decreased season by season whilst we've been in the Prem. Sure it's great to be in the Prem and playing the big boys but we are hanging on by a thread and whilst SD has managed to keep us up it''s been at the cost of good football. We're effective but tedious and so predictable. I'm a ST holder and have been for many years but I didn't bother going to Saturdays match because I knew that we'd approach it in a half-hearted fashion.
The board have a very difficult job and I personally do not envy them the task of juggling with a large budget and the ever increasing demands of footballers and their agents.

[Culvert_for_one]

I have this mental picture of a bunch of posters on here, in ten years time whinging about being in the Championship (or lower) and bemoaning the fact we weren't in the Premier League, like we were '10 years ago' beating Man U at Old Trafford etc etc etc.

As in my opening post going down is inevitable for a club like us unfortunately that is the hard truth. We've beat Utd at OT we've beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge, we've took points at both city and Liverpool its all been done and yeah its great. We need to progress and have a go at a cup while we've got the chance.

[RammyClaret61]

In both 5 & 10 years time, I’d like us to be finishing in the highest position possible of the 92 available. I’d be very happy if all 10 years we finished between 17 & 10. Surely every Burnley fan wants us to be in this division? If not why are you bothering?

It really is a stupid question imo.

[Blackrod]

Footballer and agent greed is killing the game. The TV companies have killed it for proper fans ( better for armchair fans and ‘fans’ in other countries that won’t attend games). If you can’t compete in this league on the revenue payments in excess of £100 million then what’s the point of it all. If we go down where’s the excitement in going back up if you just give up and state you can’t compete. If there’s no ambition to always do better fans will not be motivated to go.

[Culvert_for_one]

In both 5 & 10 years time, I’d like us to be finishing in the highest position possible of the 92 available. I’d be very happy if all 10 years we finished between 17 & 10. Surely every Burnley fan wants us to be in this division? If not why are you bothering?

It really is a stupid question imo.

I think you'll find people will stop bothering very quickly with this approach, the 20K will drop to 15K which will drop to the hardcore 10-12K of us that was on regardless during the lower divisions, then we will still go down regardless, surely now is the time to have a pop at some silverware?

[Dyched]

But you can compete in this league. You don’t need billions to do so. There are 6 maybe 7 including Wolves who are top teams. The rest meh.

That’s the mentality of not only fans but people at the club too. It’s bullshit. It’s also bullshit measuring anything we do against Orient which fans do all the time.

We got in this league 10 years ago. We knew then we couldn’t compete with City, Utd, Chelsea etc money wise. We should have started our scouting network of bringing in young players right away. Sports about winning and wanting to be the best. Players like Mane grew up in slums. He didn’t have what other players his age had. But he worked hard and found a way to be one of the best. We as a club need to do the same. Not just be happy where we are but actually want to win this league. It really isn’t that difficult.

[RammyClaret61]

I think you'll find people will stop bothering very quickly with this approach, the 20K will drop to 15K which will drop to the hardcore 10-12K of us that was on regardless during the lower divisions, then we will still go down regardless, surely now is the time to have a pop at some silverware?

If people “stop bothering” because we’re in the premier league then.. WOW, just WOW.

[andyh]

When we first came up I was of the opinion that mid table mediocrity was a really bad thing. I’d forgotten that we could get amazing nights (like last week ffs.) How is that not something to cling on to.

We do need to keep improving either through players we grow ourselves or buy in. I’m concerned about how that part of the project is going. However it isn’t as simple as some on here would have you believe. We need to bring in some fresh blood.

[RammyClaret61]

But he worked hard and found a way to be one of the best. We as a club need to do the same. Not just be happy where we are but actually want to win this league. It really isn’t that difficult.

But he didn’t do it in 10 minutes. We might win this league, but it might take another 20 years. Seems like our fans aren’t prepared to wait. “People will stop bothering very quickly”.

It really is the BUT I WANT IT NOW!!! Mentality.

[houseboy]

Can I just get an idea where we see ourselves going in the next 10 years or even 5 years?

Taken me a day or two to actually digest how bad the result at weekend was and for what? So we can survive another year in the premier league. Okay but what then next year? Survive again? Okay and the next time to survive again? And again and again until we inevitably go down because we will, like the Stokes, West Brom’s and Norwich’s of this world we WILL eventually go down.

So why are we not going for a cup that looking at teams around us with a full strength team we could have a proper go at. Beat Norwich at home and we are in last 16! Few years back we got knocked out by Lincoln to go into last 8 ffs!

What about the league cup argument there for that route to success being even more realistic

Do we not want something to look back on before we sink again?

Boggles the mind our mentality at the minute, are people expecting us to suddenly start challenging for the league or something?

Fantastic post and my thoughts entirely as I have often said. We are not going to win the PL and many on here have even said they don't want European football because it takes away from the PL 'effort'. So what do these people want? The only thing I can think is the money but even that is illusory because even WITH the PL money we can't compete for honours so what do we do, simply settle for 'survival' every season? We have already seen the 'novelty' effect wearing off with gates falling slightly. Of course we always have to strive to be the best we can, but in ALL competitions, not just one we can never win.
I was pleasantly surprised on Saturday to see both Wood and JR playing but then I looked at our left side, where about 65% of our normal wing play comes from. Taylor gone. McNeil gone. To be fair on first look it seemed like a fair attempt at taking things seriously until you look at our main threat from the left, or lack of it.

[Jimmymaccer]

It took us years to become a recognised Championship side..........it’ll take a few more in The Prem, but no reason we can’t compete - maybe not against Manure for example- but we can compete in time..... slowly slowly catchee monkey!

[RammyClaret61]

If you can’t compete in this league on the revenue payments in excess of £100 million then what’s the point of it all.

Oh come on. £100 million is not massive in premier league terms.

Manchester City who are not going to win this league are paying £145m per season on wages alone. Not including transfer fees, running costs, etc etc. As said above. WOW.

[TVC15]

Not really sure what some fans want or why they do not think we are doing our best to finish as high as possible every single season.
Our wage bill is the highest it’s ever been and the reasons why we choose to live within our means have been done to death.
We have had more players capped for England in the last 7 years than in a very long time. And we have seen our team beat United home and away, City, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool etc
We choose to prioritise the league over the cup in the same way as 90% of the teams in the Premier League and even in the Championship do.
We won the Championship - that’s silverware !

And I agree we need to start rebuilding the team - but that in itself will be exciting as it’s great seeing new players join the club.

Our ground is full every week and being in this league has given the town and our community more positive coverage and respect for what we have achieved than we have had in decades. Contrary to the song - actually a lot of people do like us !

What’s not to enjoy ? But for those who don’t I’m not going to say don’t go (though that is what I’d do if I ever stopped enjoying this or anything else)...the question is what is it that you want the club to do that you don’t think that they are doing or would like to do themselves ?

And on a final note - Norwich made more changes than us on Saturday and rested their 3 best players. We got beat in a game of football that we should have won with the team we put out....a bit like United should have beaten Burnley based on the teams we both fielded. That’s what happens every single week in football....luckily we are have been on the right side of defying the odds a lot more and that is something to enjoy and be proud of.

[NottsClaret]

A lot of angst and waffle about a cup defeat.

Not sure about this idea we're at a level where we could just win if we wanted to. We really wanted to beat Villa in the league, but still got beat. Norwich deserved it, as did Linclon. Losing a one off game and then projecting that across the whole mentality of a club, it's players, directors and fanbase is a bit of a stretch.

Anyway, there's a big game on Sunday and nobody will give a toss about any of this by the Thursday press conferences.

[houseboy]

In both 5 & 10 years time, I’d like us to be finishing in the highest position possible of the 92 available. I’d be very happy if all 10 years we finished between 17 & 10. Surely every Burnley fan wants us to be in this division? If not why are you bothering?

It really is a stupid question imo.

You are right up to a point Rammy but the question 'why are we bothering' cuts more than one way. If we are not trying to win silverware then why are we bothering? If all people want is to maintain PL football at all costs then why are we bothering? The original post is right, why don't we have a serious go at something we CAN win while we are in a position to seriously have a go at winning it? The PL is not the be-all-and-end-all of football and until the money situation changes, if it ever does, we are never going to win it, therefore it appears people are happy to plod along playing permanent second (or third or fourth) fiddle in a competition where we are just making up the numbers. It's not as though the football is that riveting to watch because we have to play the way we do because we can't compete by trying to play football.
There is no evidence really to say that even if we do play a full strength team for cups we can't maintain our PL postiton as well, it is just a scared assumption. I want us to stay in the PL, without a doubt, but I have said and still maintain that I would take relegation for an FA cup win, and no-one can even say that an FA cup win would see us relegated anyway.

[TVC15]

Oh come on. £100 million is not massive in premier league terms.

Manchester City who are not going to win this league are paying £145m per season on wages alone. Not including transfer fees, running costs, etc etc. As said above. WOW.

£145m ?....their last wage bill was more than £300m !
Man City’s revenue was more than half a billion in one year !!

[Wile E Coyote]

most fans at wembley for the play off final against sheff utd were ecstatic because of where we were going the following season.
I was, and it didn't bother anyone I knew that money would be an issue. we simply didnt care less.
ten or so years on, we have had regular doses of playing at the highest level, and some fans naturally get frustrated . some even yearn for the championship.
In 2020 we are still small fish in a giant pond, and unless we had massive outside investment things will remain on a knife edge for the time being.
Cups seem to interest some and not others, I think most Burnley fans would enjoy good run, but most are well aware of how degraded these competitions have become. A lot of clubs would prefer to avoid them if possible, and that is the sad reality.
We have had some memorable matches in this division, and probably can only hope to steer clear of relegation most seasons .
Even if the board tried to satisfy the supporters when the transfer windows open each year, there is not an awful lot we can do to match our rivals. Being a claret back then, or in five years time probably won't change that much.

[Stockbrokerbelt]

Might want to ask a different question, where do you think football will be in 5 — 10 years, will there be a prem league or will the big clubs have broken away? We can’t compete without a sugar daddy & sooner or later time & under investment will catch up with us.

[houseboy]

But he didn’t do it in 10 minutes. We might win this league, but it might take another 20 years. Seems like our fans aren’t prepared to wait. “People will stop bothering very quickly”.

It really is the BUT I WANT IT NOW!!! Mentality.

We might win this league? That is never going to happen under the current situation. Even if (and it's a big if) we got the players together capable of achieving that impossible feat before we won it the big guns would just come waving checks and half the team would be gone. I appreciate your enthusiasm but reality is a bit different.

[Funkydrummer]

It's a sin that somehow
Light is changing to shadow
And casting its shroud
Over all we have known
Unaware how the ranks have grown
Driven on by a heart of stone
We could find that we're all alone
In the dream of the proud

No more turning away
From the weak and the weary
No more turning away
From the coldness inside
Just a world that we all must share
It's not enough just to stand and stare
Is it only a dream that there'll be
No more turning away?

Never mind Keats, Shakespeare, Burns, Wordsworth et al, Dave Gilmour is king.

[dsr]

We choose to prioritise the league over the cup in the same way as 90% of the teams in the Premier League and even in the Championship do.
We won the Championship - that’s silverware !

That's pretty much the point. We won the Championship, which is silverware, and it appears that we have set a target of never winning any more silverware, ever. I have watched the club for 30 years or so with an astonishing degree of success and winning things - 6 promotions, 2 championships, 2 Wembley wins, and some pretty exciting cup runs. Now the semi-official ambition is to never have any of that, ever again. Which is a shame,m because winning is fun.

[TVC15]

Other than Wigan and cheating Portsmouth how many clubs outside of the big 3 or 4 have won the FA Cup in the last 30 years since the Premier League began ?
Even in the EFL cup it’s the big 3 or 4 teams winning it and reaching the final almost every single year.

Wigan winning it was not far from the equivalent of Leicester winning the league in terms of likelihood.
So even if we did play our full team like nobody else does then we would still very likely get beat.

[RammyClaret61]

Might want to ask a different question, where do you think football will be in 5 — 10 years, will there be a prem league or will the big clubs have broken away? We can’t compete without a sugar daddy & sooner or later time & under investment will catch up with us.

Excellent question. But we are never going to be a big club that is part of a breakaway. If there is a breakaway, and we’re still in this league. We'll be fine, we’ll probably be a top 6 club then? Maybe? Who knows? Certainly with my claret tinted specs on!!

[TVC15]

That's pretty much the point. We won the Championship, which is silverware, and it appears that we have set a target of never winning any more silverware, ever. I have watched the club for 30 years or so with an astonishing degree of success and winning things - 6 promotions, 2 championships, 2 Wembley wins, and some pretty exciting cup runs. Now the semi-official ambition is to never have any of that, ever again. Which is a shame,m because winning is fun.

It’s not the “ambition” of the club to never win anymore silverware....it’s the reality of being in the top league. There is not a league above us and no play offs to reach ! See my post above about the reality of trying to win a cup - we are in the same boat as around 88 other teams !

So what we are left with is either trying to finish as high as we can in this league which like everyone else is what we do or getting relegated and trying again to get promoted - which will very likely happen at some point anyway.
If some fans prefer to be competing to win the Championship as that is our best chance of “silverware” then that’s fine....but all it does is put you back to square one !

[Devils_Advocate]

Other than Wigan and cheating Portsmouth how many clubs outside of the big 3 or 4 have won the FA Cup in the last 30 years since the Premier League began ?
Even in the EFL cup it’s the big 3 or 4 teams winning it and reaching the final almost every single year.

Wigan winning it was not far from the equivalent of Leicester winning the league in terms of likelihood.
So even if we did play our full team like nobody else does then we would still very likely get beat.

I think just reaching the semi-finals would really give the town and club a real buzz however in the last 30 years whilst not winning it the following clubs have had brilliant cup runs resulting in a special day out at the cup final which they will probably remember for decades to come like our older fans do with our 62 defeat to Spurs

Sunderland
Sheff Wed
Midlesborough
Newcastle
Villa
Southampton
Millwall
West Ham
Cardiff
Everton
Portsmouth
Stoke
Hull
Palace
Watford

And thats only the FA Cup. As a Premier League team we also have a fantastic chance of reaching a League Cup final.

[NL Claret]

Is it me or have burnley never been right good in fac? From memory only got to 1/4 finals twice since I started going in 1977. We lost in the fa cup, so what's new. Move on. There was a low crowd which is nothing new for a tie played in January. Some want to rewrite history, others think it's dead straight forward to get to final. It's very odd at times on here.

[dsr]

Other than Wigan and cheating Portsmouth how many clubs outside of the big 3 or 4 have won the FA Cup in the last 30 years since the Premier League began ?
Even in the EFL cup it’s the big 3 or 4 teams winning it and reaching the final almost every single year.

Wigan winning it was not far from the equivalent of Leicester winning the league in terms of likelihood.
So even if we did play our full team like nobody else does then we would still very likely get beat.

Just because success is unlikely doesn't mean you can't have fun trying. "Dare to Dream" might be the motto. If the mentality is built into the club "this is hard but it can be done", it is likely to have a better long term impact than the mentality of "this is hard so we won't bother". IMO.

[TVC15]

Just because success is unlikely doesn't mean you can't have fun trying. "Dare to Dream" might be the motto. If the mentality is built into the club "this is hard but it can be done", it is likely to have a better long term impact than the mentality of "this is hard so we won't bother". IMO.

Which takes me back to the point that we put out a stronger team / made less changes than Norwich on Saturday (and many other teams too) and we still lost. Norwich were without easily their 5 best players this season - testing 4 (including the keeper) and Cantwell being injured.
In contrast we played arguably some of our best available players in Wood, Jay, Tarks, Westwood, Cork.
Unless you think we deliberately lost (which I know some fans have a crazy theory about) then we were trying to win this game and trying to win the cup....and we had far more chances to win than we did against Villa only a few weeks ago.

[No Ney Never]

Given they're littered with 'B' teams and under 23's, what is so special about the domestic cups anyway these days?
I would much rather be playing full strength teams in one of the best leagues in the world on a weekly basis. Given our finances in comparison, these games are cup final equivalents to me. 38 of them, not just a one off.

[jojomk1]

It's a sin that somehow
Light is changing to shadow
And casting its shroud
Over all we have known
Unaware how the ranks have grown
Driven on by a heart of stone
We could find that we're all alone
In the dream of the proud

No more turning away
From the weak and the weary
No more turning away
From the coldness inside
Just a world that we all must share
It's not enough just to stand and stare
Is it only a dream that there'll be
No more turning away?

Never mind Keats, Shakespeare, Burns, Wordsworth et al, Dave Gilmour is king.

Could have come straight out of the mouth of our Sean

[JTClaret]

We spent 10 years never doing anything in the Championship... I don't understand the mentality of the fans who miss this.

[TVC15]

I think just reaching the semi-finals would really give the town and club a real buzz however in the last 30 years whilst not winning it the following clubs have had brilliant cup runs resulting in a special day out at the cup final which they will probably remember for decades to come like our older fans do with our 62 defeat to Spurs

Sunderland
Sheff Wed
Midlesborough
Newcastle
Villa
Southampton
Millwall
West Ham
Cardiff
Everton
Portsmouth
Stoke
Hull
Palace
Watford

And thats only the FA Cup. As a Premier League team we also have a fantastic chance of reaching a League Cup final.

We were the second best team in the country in 1962. Getting to the final that year was predictable.
We have also had good runs in both cups in the last 10 or 15 years.
The debate has gone from wanting silverware to getting to a final...to semi final...to a good cup run.

I would love us to reach a final or win a cup but overall we have had a better last 7 years than many of the teams you mention on your list.