The Dyche Doublethink Strategy

[Papabendi]

Dyche appeared on Talksport this morning to deliver some laddie banter to the station...in conjunction with a certain Charlie Austin who clearly seems to have one eye on a new career, and who also delivered some follow-on bantz. My impression from that is Dyche couldn't really care less about the Cup - at least it didn't seem that way. He also did his trick of not 'crying one in' but basically then blaming the schedule, injuries..the admin error etc etc.

I can't help but think Dyche is slowly building up his Brand Dyche angle which is there to serve him over and above the club whilst having maximum security in his current position thanks to Pace's positioning. It really does suit him perfectly I just wonder at what cost to us longer term.

I really think he and is staff lost a lot of goodwill from some fans last night.

[tarkys_ears]

I never really liked him, but I respected him.

After constant games against "big clubs", previous cups and now last night, I don't respect him anymore.

[claretonthecoast1882]

"the fans"

Always good when someone speaks for everyone

[Papabendi]

should read - "some fans".

[DomBFC1882]

He has let the fans down last night of the club who's supported him through thick and thin.

Obviously to some people on here he can do no wrong which is quite amazing tbh as we all have faults at some stage

[MrTopTier]

In 3 games time nobody will even be talking about the FA Cup.

[DomBFC1882]

In 3 games time nobody will even be talking about the FA Cup.

No they'd be talking about the quarter final draw and who's likely to be in the semis

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Of the 17,000 home fans at games it will be the few on here who may wish him replaced.
If he is replaced it will highly likely that the Clarets will drop divisions and we will be down to 8,000 gates again with much less income.

[DAVETHEVICAR]

No we won’t be in the semis and Neither will Bournemouth

[DomBFC1882]

Of the 17,000 home fans at games it will be the few on here who may wish him replaced.
If he is replaced it will highly likely that the Clarets will drop divisions and we will be down to 8,000 gates again with much less income.

I do not want him gone at all and have said this countless times. However, to think he is exempt from criticism and doesn't make any bad calls is ludicrous. He got last night terribly wrong yet some on here think he didn't

[MrTopTier]

The draws on Thursday, we would have been ball number one. Come and see what you could have won.

[DomBFC1882]

No we won’t be in the semis and Neither will Bournemouth

And you know this how? Are you aware that Sheffield United play Bristol City so we could draw one of them two should we have won?

What makes you think a tie against either of them is unwinnable for us or Bournemouth? I'm intrigued

[dandeclaret]

He has let the fans down last night of the club who's supported him through thick and thin.

Obviously to some people on here he can do no wrong which is quite amazing tbh as we all have faults at some stage

When was the thin?

[claretonthecoast1882]

When was the thin?

I get the feeling he is representing the thick

[DomBFC1882]

When was the thin?

Do you not remember us getting relegated?

Short memory obviously.

[MACCA]

Just another moaning manager deflecting his own failings and blaming other things.
They all do it, he just had more ammo as he can bring up budgets and spends every week.

When he says "I'm not crying it in" he absolutely is. He has got his point in whilst trying not to show he is moaning about it.

All managers do it.

He can stay here forever for me, after getting us up, winning the league, and our brief European experience, he has until he wants to leave for me.

But I'm not naive enough not to admit the football is crap to watch and he doesnt half moan.
He's pretty much just a modern day Allerdyce, they are/were very, very similar.

[DomBFC1882]

When was the thin?

Do you not remember us getting relegated?

Short memory obviously.

[Hedontplayforyou]

He’s as much as said that THE CLUB prioritised staying in the league more than cup, not actually him. Having said that his record in the cup isn’t great at all, but he’s not often let the fans down in the 8 years he’s been with us and that’s not something many modern day football managers can say. We are so much better off with Dyche and I think he would be better off with us than going elsewhere also. Like I keep saying, give him better players, better start next season may indeed see a change of thought on the cups - after all Alan Pace did mention trying to win a cup in one of his early interviews, so perhaps the conversation will be had.

[DomBFC1882]

I get the feeling he is representing the thick

Its about the level only you'd understand

[dandeclaret]

Do you not remember us getting relegated?

Short memory obviously.

I do remember that, but that wasn't thin. That was expected wasn't it? We were favourites to finish bottom, we didn't finish bottom. I remember that he took a team favourites to be relegated, and got them promoted, and had them competitive in the premier league.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Its about the level only you'd understand

say the kid still crying almost 24 hours after losing a cup tie.

Any news on those 3 goals you guaranteed if Vydra played the next 4 games (you offered this 4 or 5 games ago) or are you still disgusted to count them up yet ?

[DomBFC1882]

I do remember that, but that wasn't thin. That was expected wasn't it? We were favourites to finish bottom, we didn't finish bottom. I remember that he took a team favourites to be relegated, and got them promoted, and had them competitive in the premier league.

Relegation no matter whether its expected or not is a downer. Not sure your point. Relegation is now on Dyches CV so that's definitely not a positive no matter whether it's expected or not.

If Allardyce gets West Brom relegated do you not think he will see that as a negative on his CV? They might be expected to go down but that still doesn't mean its not a negative.

[DomBFC1882]

say the kid still crying almost 24 hours after losing a cup tie.

Any news on those 3 goals you guaranteed if Vydra played the next 4 games (you offered this 4 or 5 games ago) or are you still disgusted to count them up yet ?

I actually said 6 or 7 games smart arse and it's not been that long yet so get back in your hole

[DomBFC1882]

say the kid still crying almost 24 hours after losing a cup tie.

Any news on those 3 goals you guaranteed if Vydra played the next 4 games (you offered this 4 or 5 games ago) or are you still disgusted to count them up yet ?

Crying? No I'd call that talking football which most do a lot better than you

[dandeclaret]

Relegation no matter whether its expected or not is a downer. Not sure your point. Relegation is now on Dyches CV so that's definitely not a positive no matter whether it's expected or not.

If Allardyce gets West Brom relegated do you not think he will see that as a negative on his CV? They might be expected to go down but that still doesn't mean its not a negative.

Yes a downer - but your point was the club stuck with him through thick and thin...... (Full( Season one massively over achieved promoted in 2nd place, season 2 slightly over achieved but relegated, Season 3 over achieved and won the leagye, season 4 over achieved, season 5 massively over achieved and got europe, Season 6 over achieved, Season 7 massively over achieved finished 10th, Season 8 - on track to over achieve.

I don't see the "Thin" that the club supported him through.

[DomBFC1882]

Yes a downer - but your point was the club stuck with him through thick and thin...... (Full( Season one massively over achieved promoted in 2nd place, season 2 slightly over achieved but relegated, Season 3 over achieved and won the leagye, season 4 over achieved, season 5 massively over achieved and got europe, Season 6 over achieved, Season 7 massively over achieved finished 10th, Season 8 - on track to over achieve.

I don't see the "Thin" that the club supported him through.

The majority of managers of clubs that relegated from the Premier league end up losing their jobs before the season starts again. If you don't think that's sticking with your manager "through thick and thin" then you're wrong. If you're just being pedantic then please yourself but you know the point being made

[MACCA]

I'm only here being nosey at this little heated exchange.

I think Claret Coast is going to be getting his friend to point out Dom in the pub, when the fans are allowed back.

The battle if the 1882's

[DomBFC1882]

I'm only here being nosey at this little heated exchange.

I think Claret Coast is going to be getting his friend to point out Dom in the pub, when the fans are allowed back.

The battle if the 1882's

Haha

[MACCA]

Haha

I'm not sure how big the club currently is mind, but theres certainly room for another, you wont be the last.

Only issue is, you've given your name away, so the investigative work for him wont be as challenging, he's a very clever man.

[Espia]

We're living in strange times at the moment with still a lot of uncertainty about the immediate future and how it's only going to play out in the coming months. Taking that into consideration I would've thought he might have taken into account what life might be like for "Ordinary Joe" at this time and how they might have liked to extend a little bit of optimism, hope, interest, excitement about being in the QF of the FA Cup. That's all ... the offering of a dream. Something to occupy one's mind away from the endless drudgery and gloom of COVID. But no, none of it. How sad. His untroubled job goes on. He still gets paid his riches in full.

Apologists for him will put forward the argument (his own argument) about why bother, look at the teams that have won the FA Cup previously. It's nearly always one of the top major clubs. Why delude yourself about winning the FA Cup. It's a waste of time. But if that was the attitude we should all employ then Wigan, Portsmouth would never have won it . Nor for that matter would we ever beat Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea in the PL !

80% of football we witness over the years is forgettable. We live for the special standout moments. The occasion of the League Cup SF against Spurs was one of those moments. That feeling I had back then , of that night, that atmosphere at the Turf, outshines any feeling I've had over anything we've done in the PL .... despite that Cup Semi final resulting in ultimate defeat.

[DomBFC1882]

I'm not sure how big the club currently is mind, but theres certainly room for another, you wont be the last.

Only issue is, you've given your name away, so the investigative work for him wont be as challenging, he's a very clever man.

It's nice to be part of a club im honoured

[BurnleyFC]

Still annoyed about our cup debacle last night.

I’m glad that Sean can seemingly laugh it off, though.

[CrosspoolClarets]

That league cup run Espia, as well as being the only time I could feel the James Hargreaves physically shaking, was also our springboard to the Premier League for the first time. I don’t buy this argument that playing a cup game would lead to relegation - after yesterday we would have had 2 more cup games max before the league finishes and whilst there is a risk of tiredness or injury there is also the possibility of confidence and excitement in the players resulting.

I suspect Dyche knows this, he’s meant to be a stats man. He’s just not the kind of guy willing to take even a small risk.

After the next 3 league games it is highly likely we will be between 5 and 12 points clear of the bottom 3. I don’t see yesterday affecting that situation hugely. Even if we lost all of them (highly improbable) we would probably remain well clear. It is now virtually season over until August / September. I suspect we’ll lock it down next week, then that’s it, we’re done in any meaningful sense.

[steve1264b]

Last night was disappointing but today i think the team became a little under valued when we swapped Pieters for Glennon (that i will accept was amateur hour).

Bournemouth were obviously expecting this and they were thinking we would be weak at left back.

We had a lot of senior players, some real first teamers playing. None played to expectations.

Yesterday did expose the truth that our first 15 is good but beyond that we begin to struggle.

When i saw the team i thought it was an opportunity for some fringe players to get some experience and looked forward to seeing them play.

However they were well below the standard last night, they may come again.

Should we have played our gun team last night? I didn't think anyone expected that. I saw an interesting comment today that the championship is 20% longer than the prem but a good team will canter through a lot of it, whereas in the premier league you are stretched every game.

This is a pivotal part of the season, we have some big six pointers coming up and i understand the need rotate in the cup.

It was the performance last night, no-one impressed.

As far our manager being jovial on the radio (i didn't hear it) what would you expect him to say?

Im one of the older fans, my wigan supporting son in law asked if i would be happy being relegated but winning the cup, i told him i would kill the wife for a FA Cup win so last night hurt, but given all the circumstances i will just about swallow it.

[dandeclaret]

The majority of managers of clubs that relegated from the Premier league end up losing their jobs before the season starts again. If you don't think that's sticking with your manager "through thick and thin" then you're wrong. If you're just being pedantic then please yourself but you know the point being made

Does that apply to the majority of surprise package clubs in the prem who get relegated? Teams that are not expected to be there, but then go down? Or is it mainly at clubs where managers are perceived to have under performed?

[Chester Perry]

Just been listening to the broadcast this morning on the 09:00 to 09:30 section

https://talksport.com/radio/listen-agai ... 612947600/

says he wanted the club to significantly invest when we went into Europe - I thought we did, have we ever spent more in a single window? not that that it turned out too well in the end, and all this in a competition where we likely made lest that £1m in profit if anything at all/

then comes out with the nonsense that we have been in overly good financial shape for years - with that kind of crap it is is no wonder the relationship broke down with the chairman, yet people lap it up and regurgitate the poor Dyche never been supported nonsense

[Belial]

Just been listening to the broadcast this morning on the 09:00 to 09:30 section

https://talksport.com/radio/listen-agai ... 612947600/

says he wanted the club to significantly invest when we went into Europe - I thought we did, have we ever spent more in a single window? not that that it turned out too well in the end, and all this in a competition where we likely made lest that £1m in profit if anything at all/

then comes out with the nonsense that we have been in overly good financial shape for years - with that kind of crap it is is no wonder the relationship broke down with the chairman, yet people lap it up and regurgitate the poor Dyche never been supported nonsense

Not to mention the money spunked on players like Vydra (who's barely played) and Gibson

[Chester Perry]

Not to mention the money spunked on players like Vydra (who's barely played) and Gibson

that was the window I referred to

[Papabendi]

Just been listening to the broadcast this morning on the 09:00 to 09:30 section

https://talksport.com/radio/listen-agai ... 612947600/

says he wanted the club to significantly invest when we went into Europe - I thought we did, have we ever spent more in a single window? not that that it turned out too well in the end, and all this in a competition where we likely made lest that £1m in profit if anything at all/

then comes out with the nonsense that we have been in overly good financial shape for years - with that kind of crap it is is no wonder the relationship broke down with the chairman, yet people lap it up and regurgitate the poor Dyche never been supported nonsense

This is the thing, when you try to be objective about it, there is an awful lot of spin there. This is the club that sanctioned having five first team goalkeepers on the books that season including Hart, Heaton and Pope.

[ksrclaret]

Far too much corporate management speak. Really can't stand it. You'll very rarely get a straight answer out of the bloke, and that's after you've waded through the sarcasm.

He can try and build up his brand however much he likes. In reality, there are a very small handful of clubs who might show an interest in him one day, unless he wants to drop down of course. Good luck to him.

[Chester Perry]

This is the thing, when you try to be objective about it, there is an awful lot of spin there. This is the club that sanctioned having five first team goalkeepers on the books that season including Hart, Heaton and Pope.

Wait until he realises what the implications of all those extended contracts announced recently will have on his summer transfer plans

[dandeclaret]

Just been listening to the broadcast this morning on the 09:00 to 09:30 section

https://talksport.com/radio/listen-agai ... 612947600/

says he wanted the club to significantly invest when we went into Europe - I thought we did, have we ever spent more in a single window? not that that it turned out too well in the end, and all this in a competition where we likely made lest that £1m in profit if anything at all/

then comes out with the nonsense that we have been in overly good financial shape for years - with that kind of crap it is is no wonder the relationship broke down with the chairman, yet people lap it up and regurgitate the poor Dyche never been supported nonsense

Is comparing previous Burnley spending the right point for a team in Europe? How did the investment that summer look vs teams getting into Europe? What about on a 3 - 5 year basis?

Burnley, rightly in my opinion, spent to their means. Football, generally spends beyond its means. This, when you look at it objectively, you could surely argue that the club didn’t invest heavily?

[Papabendi]

Dandeclaret the point being Dyche used Europe as another example of the club not investing. Not true. Did we invest heavily, no. Did we waste quite a bit of money, yes. Of course let’s not mention that.

I’m just finding it a bit dull really. If the guy doesn’t want the job i’m sure there are a load of equivalent positions lined up for him. Oh....

[Duffer_]

...then comes out with the nonsense that we have been in overly good financial shape for years - with that kind of crap it is is no wonder the relationship broke down with the chairman, yet people lap it up and regurgitate the poor Dyche never been supported nonsense

"BurnleyFC have made profits for 3 years in a row, aggregating £77m over that period. In fact, they have been profitable in each of their seasons in the Premier League, including 2010 and 2015. Losses reported in the Championship in 2014 and 2016 were driven by promotion bonuses." Swiss Ramble.

By football club standards that is overly good financial shape. Dyche has repeatedly spoken about stretching finances a bit more. Difficult to argue with him after watching MG trouser the surplus. Just our luck to have a supposed fan/custodian owner that uses the club as a vehicle for personal gain.

I was bought into the prudent approach when I thought it was about saving for the club's future. Now? Nah, I will be arguing to stretch that budget at every opportunity. What's the alternative? We save enough to pay the new directors' salaries. It's going to burst soon enough; let's at least have the Portsmouth and Wigan style memories before it does.

[dandeclaret]

Papabendi.... the quote i read said that he felt the club should have invested significantly. You, yourself suggest the club didn’t invest heavily, surely there is some alignment there?

It’s been a bug bear for him, I get it. He’s going to keep talking about it until it’s rectified I guess.... or he leaves. You may be right, that at that point there may not be a better opportunity. I’d also venture that we’d be unlikely to find a manager who delivers results so far above the level of fair expectation. Therefore there’s be no winners would there? Will be interesting to see what the summer and onwards brings in terms of investment and progression.

[NewClaret]

This is a pivotal part of the season, we have some big six pointers coming up and i understand the need rotate in the cup.

It was the performance last night, no-one impressed.

This is basically it. If we were at a different point in the season, more points on the board & well away from the relegation zone, with fewer injuries, I’d agree Dyche should’ve selected a stronger squad. As it happens, we’re not and he didn’t. Rightly.

That said, the players selected played poorly. They had their chance to impress and didn’t take it. We have no strength in depth which is basically down to whatever the hell is going on at the club and our appalling recruitment (or lack of) in recent windows.

[dougcollins]

Still annoyed about our cup debacle last night.

I’m glad that Sean can seemingly laugh it off, though.

Aye, top bantz this morning.

I don't think he's @rsed what the fans think, to be honest with you. And that's way easier with no-one on the Turf.

[Chester Perry]

"BurnleyFC have made profits for 3 years in a row, aggregating £77m over that period. In fact, they have been profitable in each of their seasons in the Premier League, including 2010 and 2015. Losses reported in the Championship in 2014 and 2016 were driven by promotion bonuses." Swiss Ramble.

By football club standards that is overly good financial shape. Dyche has repeatedly spoken about stretching finances a bit more. Difficult to argue with him after watching MG trouser the surplus. Just our luck to have a supposed fan/custodian owner that uses the club as a vehicle for personal gain.

I was bought into the prudent approach when I thought it was about saving for the club's future. Now? Nah, I will be arguing to stretch that budget at every opportunity. What's the alternative? We save enough to pay the new directors' salaries. It's going to burst soon enough; let's at least have the Portsmouth and Wigan style memories before it does.

a couple of things
- book profit isn't cash and operationally we ran a tight ship, with the surplus tending to come from finishing above 17th - the mark at which we break even cash wise. Last summer the club, much to Dyche's ire, created space in the operational budget for the wages of incomings. Pandemic induced rebates saw the operational budgets for this season drop and if the new owners want to maintain operational breakeven, those budgets are likely to stay squeezed

- just because the game in general is a basket case financially it does not mean that doing the right thing is wrong

as for you last point, I suggest the pain that Portsmouth fans went though and Wigan fans are presently going through may not be worth the memories particularly if you want future generations to share your love for the club and the town to benefit from it's presence and continued existence.

[Duffer_]

a couple of things
- book profit isn't cash and operationally we ran a tight ship, with the surplus tending to come from finishing above 17th - the mark at which we break even cash wise. Last summer the club, much to Dyche's ire, created space in the operational budget for the wages of incomings. Pandemic induced rebates saw the operational budgets for this season drop and if the new owners want to maintain operational breakeven, those budgets are likely to stay squeezed

- just because the game in general is a basket case financially it does not mean that doing the right thing is wrong

as for you last point, I suggest the pain that Portsmouth fans went though and Wigan fans are presently going through may not be worth the memories particularly if you want future generations to share your love for the club and the town to benefit from it's presence and continued existence.

I am fully aware of the difference between profit and cash which, under the old regime without debt, was largely a matter of timing. It is as one eyed to ignore profit as it is cash.

The evidence suggests Dyche was right - funds were available to stretch it a bit more. The previous board chose self interest.

I recognise I have no influence over the financial strategy of the board. I support the team and the related activities that align with my own beliefs. I will act in my own self-interest which includes not being an apologist for others and considering my own expenditure with regards to the club. The illusion of all being in it together has well and truly been shattered for me.

[Chester Perry]

I am fully aware of the difference between profit and cash which, under the old regime without debt, was largely a matter of timing. It is as one eyed to ignore profit as it is cash.

The evidence suggests Dyche was right - funds were available to stretch it a bit more. The previous board chose self interest.

I recognise I have no influence over the financial strategy of the board. I support the team and the related activities that align with my own beliefs. I will act in my own self-interest which includes not being an apologist for others and considering my own expenditure with regards to the club. The illusion of all being in it together has well and truly been shattered for me.

agree with your first point

I think there were funds for transfers not wages, using the "dry powder" for wages would have been a dangerous route in my view

I have considerable sympathy for the last paragraph. while I do not consider myself an apologist, I seek to understand the reasons for actions taken, I know a growing number seem to believe that. I stopped putting money into football long time ago, but cannot seem to let go of my fascination with it, albeit at a distance.