How long before Dyche comes under real pressure

[mikeS]

Don't think there will be a knee jerk reaction to exiting the Carabou Cup. There might be if we are relegated, and once it harms the financial return for the Americans. Dyche signed a four year deal - he's going nowhere.

[Rombald]

I just don’t see how this can possibly be true?

Dyche and Garlick had a very public dispute about not wanting to offer contracts to the very players that we are all now saying arnt good enough. Garlick was right two seasons ago and Dyche.should have listened.

Instead we are stuck with a squad of deadwood on a wage bill of 100m.

"Deadwood" including, Pope, Tarky, Mee, Dwight, Collins, Wood, Cornet, Roberts.......
Another magical overreaction, but perhaps we shouldn't be surprised
If its that bad, simply don't go(which you dont) and stop spending so much time telling us all how bad it is.

[Billy Balfour]

Instead we are stuck with a squad of deadwood on a wage bill of 100m.

I hope none of our squad are reading your disgraceful insults.

[boatshed bill]

I don’t understand what relevance that has? That season Dyche spent 20m on Jay Rod (who can play wide) and Brownhill. Plus a further 3m on a goal keeper that is now in league 1. Letting both of them go made sense from an ownership point of view. It would have also made sense to get rid of the likes of Bardsley, Brady etc… and re build that summer. However Dyche wanted there contracts extending

Careful, that is a bit too factual for this place.
Add to that SD's determination to keep the players who were only offered short-term deals, evidenced by SD's return for Lennon this season.
Plenty on here see SD as doing absolutely nothing wrong and MG as some kind of villain. Can't say I agree.

[Newcastleclaret93]

"Deadwood" including, Pope, Tarky, Mee, Dwight, Collins, Wood, Cornet, Roberts.......
Another magical overreaction, but perhaps we shouldn't be surprised
If its that bad, simply don't go(which you dont) and stop spending so much time telling us all how bad it is.

It’s not a magical over reaction at all, do you think we get our moneys worth of 100m a year in wages?

I have attended five games this season after giving up my season ticket, but I love how you use it as some kind of stick to beat me with. You must be the number 1 fan because you attend every game haha

[warksclaret]

I think he has too much credit for BFC to want to part with him, though we don't know the true colours of the new owners when things go per shape

What will be troubling Dyche inside, is that his value to the outside footballing word is plumetting, and he knows he has run out of ideas with this ageing squad, and in reality cannot see a run of points coming. I remember how Wilder's worth rose when Sheff Utd were turning over PL sides and of course he had a tremendous CV having won a number of promotions in the lower leagues. Wilder is now very much a forgotton manager and still unemployed

[Rombald]

It’s not a magical over reaction at all, do you think we get our moneys worth of 100m a year in wages?

I have attended five games this season after giving up my season ticket, but I love how you use it as some kind of stick to beat me with. You must be the number 1 fan because you attend every game haha

My reply was in response to your inane comment about the squad all being deadwood. Simply ridiculous, but you have form.
With regard attending games, you mention yourself you've stopped going. In addition, if its that bad, why on earth have you attended 5 games is a mystery to me.

[bf2k]

I don’t understand what relevance that has? That season Dyche spent 20m on Jay Rod (who can play wide) and Brownhill. Plus a further 3m on a goal keeper that is now in league 1. Letting both of them go made sense from an ownership point of view. It would have also made sense to get rid of the likes of Bardsley, Brady etc… and re build that summer. However Dyche wanted there contracts extending

The relevance was that Dyche may have wanted to keep them because we had no one else coming in to replace them. Last season or squad was ridiculously thin. It’s not much better this season.

And Jay Rod out wide? Really?

[Newcastleclaret93]

My reply was in response to your inane comment about the squad all being deadwood. Simply ridiculous, but you have form.
With regard attending games, you mention yourself you've stopped going. In addition, if its that bad, why on earth have you attended 5 games is a mystery to me.

Yes and my statement is correct, we do have a squad of deadwood. We have genuinely a handful of players that are currently performing at premier league standard. Cornet, Wood, McNeil, Tarks, Collins, Pope. If that is worth 100m a season then there is something wrong.

I actually said I gave up my season ticket due to how bad it was. I attended 5 games because I am a fan and I hoped for the best.unfortunately I should have stuck with my head rather than my heart as the football has been dreadful for a long time

[Rombald]

Yes and my statement is correct, we do have a squad of deadwood. We have genuinely a handful of players that are currently performing at premier league standard. Cornet, Wood, McNeil, Tarks, Collins, Pope. If that is worth 100m a season then there is something wrong.

I actually said I gave up my season ticket due to how bad it was. I attended 5 games because I am a fan and I hoped for the best.unfortunately I should have stuck with my head rather than my heart as the football has been dreadful for a long time

"Hope for the best". Wow. Really?

[boatshed bill]

The relevance was that Dyche may have wanted to keep them because we had no one else coming in to replace them. Last season or squad was ridiculously thin. It’s not much better this season.

They were (Brady excluded) offered short-term deals which they turned down.
Bardsley later signed a short-term deal and has obviously been retained.
SD has been very loyal to his core of players, perhaps too loyal.

[Newcastleclaret93]

The relevance was that Dyche may have wanted to keep them because we had no one else coming in to replace them. Last season or squad was ridiculously thin. It’s not much better this season.

And Jay Rod out wide? Really?

Or maybe it was quite simply that our wage bill was so high due to keeping players past there sell by date that we couldn’t afford to sign players. Given we have note made profit since the 2018-19 season.

Yes Jay Rod played most of his career before returning to Burnley out wide. The best season of his career came playing on the Left wing at Southampton. He scored 14 goals and got 3 assists in 29 appearances

[Newcastleclaret93]

"Hope for the best". Wow. Really?

Yes hoped we would win a game?

[Rombald]

Yes hoped we would win a game?

If backtracking and negativity were an Olympic sport, you'd be a medal winner

[Newcastleclaret93]

If backtracking and negativity were an Olympic sport, you'd be a medal winner

I honestly have no idea what you are saying?

Am I not supposed to hope for the best? I don’t get what you are referring to

[Forgotten]

Quite frankly he should be under real pressure given the performance over the last 2 seasons.
I bet he isn't feeling it though.

He’s feeling it. Not because of the board, but because he’s a invested, progressive coach who is determined to reach heights he never did as a player.

Man’s a winner.

[Jimmymaccer]

He won't be gone. He'll be given the chance to take us back, and I think he will have earned it too if we drop. We are suffering from the years of underinvestment. Did anyone expect it to be fixed in one window?

This for me is it…..two arms tied up his back since we got back in The Prem, Garlick just one motive……there is an element of resignation to what will be this year, but then his time will come to deliver…..

If we stay up, bleedin miracle……..and yep, if we do stay up , let’s step up…..

Go down, he’ll be supported, but expected to deliver.

So for this season, after Garlicks mission delivered, covid causing mayhem……

Just be thankful.

[bf2k]

Or maybe it was quite simply that our wage bill was so high due to keeping players past there sell by date that we couldn’t afford to sign players. Given we have note made profit since the 2018-19 season.

Yes Jay Rod played most of his career before returning to Burnley out wide. The best season of his career came playing on the Left wing at Southampton. He scored 14 goals and got 3 assists in 29 appearances

That’s fine as long as you have replacements, better replacements, which Rigg was obviously not able to find within Garlick’s budget.

Disagree with Jay Rod. There is a difference playing on the left up front and out wide left as well.

[boatshed bill]

He’s feeling it. Not because of the board, but because he’s a invested, progressive coach who is determined to reach heights he never did as a player.

Man’s a winner.

Well, he won his "spat" with the then chairman, but right now he's looking increasingly like a loser (based on our form, not his personal demeanour)

[Boss Hogg]

Don’t think the new owners will accept relegation quite so readily as some on here would. We might not get back for ten years if at all. Their investment will then be a very poor one. They will make a decision based on business and not sentiment.

[tiger76]

SD will get time to turn our stuttering form around, however he won't be given an indefinite period I suspect.

3 points on Saturday and the pressure will ease slightly, but if we lose again at home the discontent will rightly grow.

2nd big test for Pace & Co, the 1st was the summer window, and by and large that was fairly decent given that we couldn't expect to plug all the holes in our squad in only 1 window.

If they are actively considering potting SD then I'd imagine they'd make the call prior to the Jan window surely, so that gives him about 9/10 games roughly to get our fortunes going in the right direction.

Sean isn't immune to flak by any means, but the root of our problems stems from Garlick not loosening the purse strings for 4/5 windows, now hopefully
with the new owners this penny pinching policy will change, and the early signs are promising at least that we're starting to go back to sourcing younger talent with the captures of Collins, Cornet & Roberts.

[diamondpocket]

We can only speculate on the board's interpretation of pressure for the manager's job but a 4 year deal suggests he's got plenty of support and at least a January window. It wouldn't make much sense either to get rid closer to the January window; rash signings are always made by new managers panicking to make their mark.
Even if we do go down with some good January signings and maybe an unlucky relegation, where things just don't go our way, then the mood might not be all too bad, and with a good Summer pot & parachute payments in hand, we should be in as strong a position as possible to come straight back up.
But I hope it doesn't come true obviously!

[joey13]

He’s feeling it. Not because of the board, but because he’s a invested, progressive coach who is determined to reach heights he never did as a player.

Man’s a winner.

Not this season , so far

[warksclaret]

Maybe its time for a frank and open meeting between coaches and players-like they did in the promotion winning season, shortly after Hull beat us 3-0. We never lost another game that season. Something needs to happen to stop the tide

[BurnleyFC]

I still think we have enough about us to stay up, although we obviously need to go pick up some wins very soon.

If, however, we do drop down to the Championship, then Sean Dyche and Ian Woan absolutely deserve the chance to get us back up again.

[Winstonswhite]

Maybe its time for a frank and open meeting between coaches and players-like they did in the promotion winning season, shortly after Hull beat us 3-0. We never lost another game that season. Something needs to happen to stop the tide

You can’t compare the seasons or squads. That year we were underperforming. Now, we are totally inferior to the vast majority of our opponents.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I still think we have enough about us to stay up, although we obviously need to go pick up some wins very soon.

If, however, we do drop down to the Championship, then Sean Dyche and Ian Woan absolutely deserve the chance to get us back up again.

My concern is what squad would we have if we were relegated. It would almost be a complete over haul, we have many players out of contract that we won’t want to resign as they are on massive wages.

Then who would we have to sell to balance the books/pay of debt.

The squad would be knowhere near the level it was the last time we went down

[Rombald]

My concern is what squad would we have if we were relegated. It would almost be a complete over haul, we have many players out of contract that we won’t want to resign as they are on massive wages.

Then who would we have to sell to balance the books/pay of debt.

The squad would be knowhere near the level it was the last time we went down

But its all deadwood, so we will be fine. Plus, if out of contract, we won't need paying those high wages you worry about. Perfect. Nothing for you to worry about

[Newcastleclaret93]

But its all deadwood, so we will be fine. Plus, if out of contract, we won't need paying those high wages you worry about. Perfect. Nothing for you to worry about

Trying to sign ten or so players in a window will be incredibly difficult

[Jakubclaret]

My concern is what squad would we have if we were relegated. It would almost be a complete over haul, we have many players out of contract that we won’t want to resign as they are on massive wages.

Then who would we have to sell to balance the books/pay of debt.

The squad would be knowhere near the level it was the last time we went down

To be honest if we was to be relegated getting rid of them & starting again with a fresh squad would be a godsend, there’s far too many stale players it desperately needs a reset & freshening up.

[Tall Paul]

It’s not a magical over reaction at all, do you think we get our moneys worth of 100m a year in wages?

£100m? Where do you get that figure from?

[Newcastleclaret93]

£100m? Where do you get that figure from?

2020 club accounts.

We broke even with revenue of 134 million.
Wage bill was 100 million (rose by 13m from season before).

I assume wages are possibly even higher now with the inclusion of Cornet, Roberts, Collins and new contract for McNeil.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

£100m? Where do you get that figure from?

20211028_225403.jpg (431.38 KiB) Viewed 3092 times

Overall wage bill for the entire club was £100Million in 19/20

I'd say yes we do alright in regards to value for money, given the length of stay in the PL.
We are currently in transition though, so with the new signings and more to come I expect to see the wage bill to be similar but with better result on the pitch.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

2020 club accounts.

We broke even with revenue of 134 million.
Wage bill was 100 million (rose by 13m from season before).

I assume wages are possibly even higher now with the inclusion of Cornet, Roberts, Collins and new contract for McNeil.

We had players leave the previous summer who weren't replaced at the time, like Hendrick and Hart.

The wages may be higher, but not sure by how much.
Also the wages of the new board members will be included as they're potentially drawing a wage whereas the previous lot didn't.

[Newcastleclaret93]

We had players leave the previous summer who weren't replaced at the time, like Hendrick and Hart.

The wages may be higher, but not sure by how much.
Also the wages of the new board members will be included as they're potentially drawing a wage whereas the previous lot didn't.

Good point I think this years accounts will be interesting. The impact of covid will be incredibly interesting to understand

[Tall Paul]

2020 club accounts.

We broke even with revenue of 134 million.
Wage bill was 100 million (rose by 13m from season before).

I assume wages are possibly even higher now with the inclusion of Cornet, Roberts, Collins and new contract for McNeil.

Those accounts cover a 13 month period for the entire club staff and include bonuses for finishing 10th, so to use that figure as the current wage bill for the playing squad is inaccurate at best and disingenous at worst. I'd imagine it's significantly lower than that.

[Wile E Coyote]

Not a clue why ANY Claret could doubt the man. All this talk of him being stubborn and unable to see the flaws in his selections !!! are you kidding ? The very reason we are doing battle in this division is down to his knowledge of his squad , and his tactical know how.
Do you seriously believe he cant see what is wrong?
The reason he has been given the backing of the owners should be crystal clear.
It is crazy to suggest his position should be under threat.
If ONE thing would truly alienate fans from the club, it would be the lunacy of dismissing him.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Those accounts cover a 13 month period for the entire club staff and include bonuses for finishing 10th, so to use that figure as the current wage bill for the playing squad is inaccurate at best and disingenous at worst. I'd imagine it's significantly lower than that.

Ok Paul, let’s take 1 month off, that leaves 92.5 million. Let’s take another 2.5m off for all of the staff at the club.

That leaves a wage bill of approx 90m. Does that still feel like money well Spent?

[taio]

Ok Paul, let’s take 1 month off, that leaves 92.5 million. Let’s take another 2.5m off for all of the staff at the club.

That leaves a wage bill of approx 90m. Does that still feel like money well Spent?

Considering it includes significant bonuses and we finished 10th in the league, and in comparison to other clubs' wage bills and what that achieved, then absolutely it was money well spent. How can you possibly dispute that when considering the broader context?

[Tall Paul]

Ok Paul, let’s take 1 month off, that leaves 92.5 million. Let’s take another 2.5m off for all of the staff at the club.

That leaves a wage bill of approx 90m. Does that still feel like money well Spent?

£2.5m for more than 200 matchday staff and over 100 full time staff? Doesn't sound anywhere near enough to me.

You need to take off the performance bonuses as well, because there won't be much of them to pay if the current results continue. I reckon the first team squad wages are probably closer to £60m.

[Elizabeth]

One thing I always remember Dyche saying is that the type of football his sides will play is dependent on the the type of footballer at the club. In Cornet and Roberts I believe we have different players than we’ve had for quite some time and I’m expecting a change in style soon as they settle into the side.
Yes we have some players now past it for the PL and hopefully they will begin to be eased out via the subs bench. Brownhill is one of the keys to improvement for me but only if the new blood starts to bring out the best in him, something I don’t think we’ve seen yet.
Loyalty to his players is one of Dyche’s strength and should never be held against him. I’m confident it will see him through this admittedly long sticky period and I don’t see the pressure building to the degree that is being suggested.
There are no quick solutions and plenty of the season left to improve our home form which will get the points ticking over again nicely

[KRBFC]

This for me is it…..two arms tied up his back since we got back in The Prem, Garlick just one motive……there is an element of resignation to what will be this year, but then his time will come to deliver…..

If we stay up, bleedin miracle……..and yep, if we do stay up , let’s step up…..

Go down, he’ll be supported, but expected to deliver.

So for this season, after Garlicks mission delivered, covid causing mayhem……

Just be thankful.

I'm sorry but Garlick isn't picking the team, coaching the team, signing the players.
Garlick definitely held back the funding towards the end but look at the shite we spent real money on and the mess that has now created.

Rodriguez £10m 50k p/w
Stephens £1m 37,500 p/w
Gibson £15m shite
Brady £13m shite
Hendrick £9m shite
Lennon no doubt another 40k a week shite


There is one man signing, retaining(in some cases), coaching and selecting these shite players and his name isn't Garlick.

[bobinho]

I don’t think many people are actively Dyche out. However I don’t think Pace will hang around, his investment depends on Burnley staying up. If we go down I’m sure he will be running back to America quick enough

What? Burnley get relegated, pace chucks the towel in?

You have your moments, but this one is spectacular. Well Done fella, you have amazed even me….

Of course I have no real evidence to prove you wrong, but I’m sure if relegation happens, history will come to my rescue.

[KRBFC]

The recruitment as a whole has been an absolute disaster. Scatter gun approach signing any old shite overpaid British player in sight with zero plan for the future, zero plan for resale value. At the minute we are stockpiling a group of 4 awful strikers. Where was the future planning? Instead of spunking £5m up the wall on Dale Stephens, why was that not used towards a CM potentially capable of displacing Cork?

Lennon, Gilks, Matty Taylor, Steven reid, Crouch, Stephens, Walters and the rest I've probably missed, old washed up pub league players.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

We didn't pay that much for Gibson, it was probably about half.
Hendrick - integral part of the team during his time here, regardless of your opinion about him I'd suggest we probably miss him.

Brady - that injury did for him, that cannot be planned for.

[boatshed bill]

I'm sorry but Garlick isn't picking the team, coaching the team, signing the players.
Garlick definitely held back the funding towards the end but look at the shite we spent real money on and the mess that has now created.

Rodriguez £10m 50k p/w
Stephens £1m 37,500 p/w
Gibson £15m shite
Brady £13m shite
Hendrick £9m shite
Lennon no doubt another 40k a week shite


There is one man signing, retaining(in some cases), coaching and selecting these shite players and his name isn't Garlick.

I'd leave Hendrick and Brady off your list because they were good signings at the time, but you are right in principle; too much money sat on the bench, too many stop-gaps.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Walters - injury

Crouch - great deal, for free and we got shot of Vokes for millions.

Reid - didn't do much but it's been explained time and again Dyche values certain people because they help keep the dressing room Stable.

All you're doing is showing how little you know, or understand with that rant.

[boatshed bill]

Walters - injury

Crouch - great deal, for free and we got shot of Vokes for millions.

Reid - didn't do much but it's been explained time and again Dyche values certain people because they help keep the dressing room Stable.

All you're doing is showing how little you know, or understand with that rant.

So why didn't SD just offer Reid a coaching job?
Why bother with Crouch, a couple of million off the Vokes fee but we could have looked at a younger player with potential, who in the short term could have sat on the bench until the 85th minute.

[bobinho]

Loyalty to his players is one of Dyche’s strength and should never be held against him.

This in itself could be our undoing.

It’s either a strength or a weakness. I think most of us know what it is right now.

Those playing get all comfy, those watching and knowing they could do better but they are not being given a chance get restless…. That creates its own issues.

Barnes. The “loyalty” shown to him is utterly bizarre. Utterly, madly and confusingly bizarre. No one with eyes in their head could logically argue for his inclusion any more. He should struggle
To make the bench.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

So why didn't SD just offer Reid a coaching job?
Why bother with Crouch, a couple of million off the Vokes fee but we could have looked at a younger player with potential, who in the short term could have sat on the bench until the 85th minute.

We needed a player for the bench for 6 mths who was content to do that, enter Crouch for no transfer fee.

Reid - maybe he wasn't ready to start coaching then or we didn't have a spot for him but he was here for a year, that's it.