Should West Ham have had a penalty?

[Rowls]

Any Deliberate foul in the penalty area.

From memory: obstruction and or possibly ball to hand when no deliberate attempt was made to handle (however it's a long time since I played

Handball always had to be deemed "deliberate". That rule is technically still in place but they've changed the definition of how they determine it is "deliberate".

Handball was always a direct free kick offence.

Free kicks inside the box were given for indirect offences which were, as you correctly said, obstruction and also if the goalkeeper committed an offence under several old rules: These old rules include (off the top of my head) as not bouncing the ball once every four steps, taking more than four steps or (this next rule was only in place briefly before they had the guts to fully outlaw picking up backpasses) picking the ball up for a second consecutive time having been played back by a member of his own team with nobody else having touched the ball in between this happening!

[Tall Paul]

Yes they do.
I don't like it. It is obstruction and should be given.

Obstruction hasn't been an offence for years.

[Rowls]

Free kicks inside the box were given for indirect offences which were, as you correctly said, obstruction and also if the goalkeeper committed an offence under several old rules: These old rules include (off the top of my head) as not bouncing the ball once every four steps, taking more than four steps or (this next rule was only in place briefly before they had the guts to fully outlaw picking up backpasses) picking the ball up for a second consecutive time having been played back by a member of his own team with nobody else having touched the ball in between this happening!

These days, there is a lack of indirect free kicks inside the box because referees have collectively decided globally to not enforce the 6 second rule which replaced the above rules.

What I think football needs is the equivalent of a private prosecution to bring an effective reinforcement of this rule. It's still there in the laws of the game, just never ever enforced.

I think winning sides with narrow margin average closer to 18 seconds of the keeper holding onto the ball which makes an utter farce of it all.

[Rowls]

Obstruction hasn't been the word for the offence for a while. They changed the word to "impeding" and changed the definition so that it meant there was no contact, making this definition and rule effectively pointless in what remains a contact sport.

Indirect free kicks still exist.

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-go ... free-kicks

[boatshed bill]

offence or not, "shepherding" the ball out should be pulled up. It's crap football.

[boatshed bill]

Obstruction hasn't been the word for the offence for a while. They changed the word to "impeding" and changed the definition so that it meant there was no contact, making this definition and rule effectively pointless in what remains a contact sport.

Indirect free kicks still exist.

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-go ... free-kicks

As a goalkeeper in the 70s and 80s I remember defending indirect freekicks. Lots from outside the penalty area. I really can't remember the circumstances now.

[Ric_C]

Not trawled through all opinions, but anyone who thinks that's a pen knows nothing about football.

Dawson clearly just throws himself in the line of fire in the vain attempt to win a penalty, he's not even looking at the ball.

[Greeny]

Not trawled through all opinions, but anyone who thinks that's a pen knows nothing about football.

Dawson clearly just throws himself in the line of fire in the vain attempt to win a penalty, he's not even looking at the ball.

That's a bit harsh on numerous posters. In the real world you are spot on. However in Fantasyland aka The Premier League you only have to look at what gets given as a penalty for Salah and his Top 6 mates all the time often by simply someone breathing on them or at worst they initiate "contact" by bumping into an opponent and hey ho its a pen. VAR then being checked by Stevie Wonder who must never have played a game of competitive football in his life and within two ticks we are all good to go from the spot. Crack on Mo..............

[Newcastleclaret93]

Not trawled through all opinions, but anyone who thinks that's a pen knows nothing about football.

Dawson clearly just throws himself in the line of fire in the vain attempt to win a penalty, he's not even looking at the ball.

Just all the pros, pundits and referees that agreed it was a penalty then

[quoonbeatz]

Happened right in front of us and was never a penalty. Dawson knew exactly what he was doing, he simply jumped in the way to buy a foul. Should have been booked, same as Maddison should have for his bit of cheating. Stopped McNeil preventing a corner as well.

Had to laugh at Glen Murray saying you can't kick someone in the penalty area. It's a contact sport and you can kick someone if they purposefully put themselves in the way like Dawson did. The Maddison and Salah ones shouldn't have been given either as both initiated the contact.

[Colburn_Claret]

Penalty all day long.
Dawson is allowed to jump between Dwight and the ball, he doesn't have to play it. There was no intent from McNeil, but he clearly got a good chunk of Dawson and nowhere near the ball.
About time we had a bit of luck, but I would have been cursing if it happened at the other end.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Happened right in front of us and was never a penalty. Dawson knew exactly what he was doing, he simply jumped in the way to buy a foul. Should have been booked, same as Maddison should have for his bit of cheating. Stopped McNeil preventing a corner as well.

Had to laugh at Glen Murray saying you can't kick someone in the penalty area. It's a contact sport and you can kick someone if they purposefully put themselves in the way like Dawson did. The Maddison and Salah ones shouldn't have been given either as both initiated the contact.

Love reading posts like this, what more would McNeil have to do for you to give a penalty there. Dawson jumps in between the player and the ball to stop the ball from being cleared. McNeil makes a clumsy swipe and clearly takes the player down.

[Im_not_Robbie_Blake]

I saw it as an obvious penalty.
My son saw it as obviously not a penalty.

That's how these tings are...................

[jedi_master]

Happened right in front of us and was never a penalty. Dawson knew exactly what he was doing, he simply jumped in the way to buy a foul. Should have been booked, same as Maddison should have for his bit of cheating. Stopped McNeil preventing a corner as well.

Had to laugh at Glen Murray saying you can't kick someone in the penalty area. It's a contact sport and you can kick someone if they purposefully put themselves in the way like Dawson did. The Maddison and Salah ones shouldn't have been given either as both initiated the contact.

I also had this right in front of me (I sit in the JMU but had a fantastic view of this specific incident) and felt exactly the same as you have said here Quoon.

I was not in the least concerned by it going to VAR - in fact I laughed, such was the farce of it. TV has a lot of angles which can make things look very different, but it did not have the one I saw live.

[boatshed bill]

Just all the pros, pundits and referees that agreed it was a penalty then

But not those who were required to make the decision.
So not a penalty then.

[thelifeofbrian]

Well thats cleared things up. No need to get personal fellow clarets, we all have opinions-it doesn't mean you're right

[KateR]

YES to the thread question

[quoonbeatz]

Love reading posts like this, what more would McNeil have to do for you to give a penalty there. Dawson jumps in between the player and the ball to stop the ball from being cleared. McNeil makes a clumsy swipe and clearly takes the player down.

He'd have had to foul Dawson. It's not about what McNeil does, it's about what Dawson does. If you're going to throw yourself in front of a player who is already going to kick the ball, it's your own fault if you get kicked, not theirs. As it was McNeil half pulls out which is why it looks clumsy. Dawson was going down pleading for the penalty in mid air, a total con artist. As jedi said, no concerns when it went to var. We were laughing at Dawson and to be fair, he was laughing at himself.

[Newcastleclaret93]

He'd have had to foul Dawson. It's not about what McNeil does, it's about what Dawson does. If you're going to throw yourself in front of a player who is already going to kick the ball, it's your own fault if you get kicked, not theirs. As it was McNeil half pulls out which is why it looks clumsy. Dawson was going down pleading for the penalty in mid air, a total con artist. As jedi said, no concerns when it went to var. We were laughing at Dawson and to be fair, he was laughing at himself.

David Moyes has just confirmed in his press conference that the premier league has contacted to West Ham to confirm the referees made a mistake and they should have been awarded a penalty.

That settles that argument.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Just all the pros, pundits and referees that agreed it was a penalty then

To be fair, lots of pundits etc were absolutely adamant that Barnes fouled Matic that time yet interestingly the FA took no action against Barnes.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

I'll bet that he never confirmed that Ben Mee should have had a penalty when Dawson flattened him. Oh I forgot that the PL would not have looked at that incident because none of our players made a fuss about it.
It's only a game, not worth getting upset about, life goes on with it or without it.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I'll bet that he never confirmed that Ben Mee should have had a penalty when Dawson flattened him. Oh I forgot that the PL would not have looked at that incident because none of our players made a fuss about it.
It's only a game, not worth getting upset about, life goes on with it or without it.

Probably because that incident (if that’s what we are calling it) is not a penalty

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Probably because that incident (if that’s what we are calling it) is not a penalty

Are you going to argue about this with a referee?

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Probably because that incident (if that’s what we are calling it) is not a penalty

Most clear penalty of the whole weekend. Ball was going towards Ben who was in the act of jumping when Dawson just barged him over.
No dive, no attempt by Dawson to get the ball, his only intent was to ensure that Ben Mee didn't get it ---he succeeded and got away with it.
I called it in real time without any problem, however, the referee was not in a position to see it because he was looking at the ball in flight and Dawson knew that and the AR was on the opposite side of the field.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Are you going to argue about this with a referee?

Clearly the referees on the pitch and the review panel agree that it wasn’t.

Whereas the review panel agree that the McNeil one was a penalty and have apologised for it

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Clearly the referees on the pitch and the review panel agree that it wasn’t.

Whereas the review panel agree that the McNeil one was a penalty and have apologised for it

The review panel only review VAR incidents and Ben Mee's was not reviewed because there was no decision made because, as I explained, the officials did not see it! The McNeil one was not a penalty either because it was not given by the officials on the day and, in this case, the referee's decision was final, which really does make a change at PL level. We really are in danger of refereeing by committee in the never ending quest to get the 'perfect game of football' ---it is only a game and will never be perfect.

Was the ball over the line in the 1966 World Cup Final ---what did the review panel say?
Nothing to prove ---move on.

[quoonbeatz]

David Moyes has just confirmed in his press conference that the premier league has contacted to West Ham to confirm the referees made a mistake and they should have been awarded a penalty.

That settles that argument.

Aye, course they did.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Aye, course they did.

So David Moyes is lieing?

[quoonbeatz]

I haven't seen the interview. Were his lips moving?

[Burnley Ace]

So David Moyes is lieing?

Does have any evidence to support this assertion? A letter, an email or perhaps the name of the person who called him to say it should have been a penalty? What was their position within the hierarch for example “the referees assessor” or the “phone managers to apologise” department?

[SalisburyClaret]

It didn’t happen - just a fantasy - search the text of the press conference for confirmation

[the_magic_rat]

Most clear penalty of the whole weekend. Ball was going towards Ben who was in the act of jumping when Dawson just barged him over.
No dive, no attempt by Dawson to get the ball, his only intent was to ensure that Ben Mee didn't get it ---he succeeded and got away with it.
I called it in real time without any problem, however, the referee was not in a position to see it because he was looking at the ball in flight and Dawson knew that and the AR was on the opposite side of the field.

I watched Dawson closely throughout the West Ham game. Virtually every time he challenged Wood he gave him a slight nudge just before the ball arrived to give him sufficient advantage to win the header. Needless to say this was never picked up by the hapless Graham Scott.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

I watched Dawson closely throughout the West Ham game. Virtually every time he challenged Wood he gave him a slight nudge just before the ball arrived to give him sufficient advantage to win the header. Needless to say this was never picked up by the hapless Graham Scott.

All very much a part of the game and always has been. As a player, you do what you can and see what gets picked up by the officials. You push things as far as you can as long as you don't get penalised for it. Dawson is an experienced hand and used that experience and pushed things to the limit.
As an official, particularly if you have played for many years, you know the dodges and you are unconsciously keeping an eye on a lot of things like that and you nip them in the bud and have a laugh with the player concerned.
Sadly, many officials are just looking for obvious things and a lot of what goes on passes them by.