7 League wins in 2021. Only 2 at home.

[Newcastleclaret93]

A "good " job. It's far more than that. Overachieving doesn't really come close

It’s an interesting view.

I very much think he overachieved with our top ten finishes but I don’t think avoiding relegation is very special.

Allardyce, Hughes etc…. Did it for years on similar budgets with loads of different clubs.

[boatshed bill]

A "good " job. It's far more than that. Overachieving doesn't really come close

Fair comment,
But it doesn't alter the original point that 7 wins in a calendar year isn't good enough.

[taio]

I'm not sure that's a fair analysis of opinions on this thread.
I think most of us agree SD has done a good job, the problem is some believe he is better than good, and they will go to any lengths to try to prove it.

I'm happy to say I am one of those who thinks he's done better than a good job. Surely after six consecutive seasons in the PL he has surpassed any sensible person's expectations and, therefore, that means that a good job is a big understatement.

[Rombald]

It’s an interesting view.

I very much think he overachieved with our top ten finishes but I don’t think avoiding relegation is very special.

Allardyce, Hughes etc…. Did it for years on similar budgets with loads of different clubs.

It's not interesting. It's remarkable how we are still in the division.
I

[Newcastleclaret93]

It's not interesting. It's remarkable how we are still in the division.
I

I think Dyche has done a great job, I think his greatest achievement was the Europe season, top 10 and the first promotion season.

I think the other seasons he has achieved arguably what he was set out to do.

But Boatshed is correct, 2021 has arguably been the worst year of his career. He needs a big January window to turn things around

[taio]

I think Dyche has done a great job, I think his greatest achievement was the Europe season, top 10 and the first promotion season.

I think the other seasons he has achieved arguably what he was set out to do.

But Boatshed is correct, 2021 has arguably been the worst year of his career. He needs a big January window to turn things around

Football is judged over a season through a league table not results in a calendar year.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Football is judged over a season through a league table not results in a calendar year.

I agree but it doesn’t stop the fact that 2021 has been a nightmare year for him.

The great news is he has a transfer window and the rest of the season to turn things around.

[boatshed bill]

Football is judged over a season through a league table not results in a calendar year.

Entertainment and enjoyment are measured on a week to week basis.

[taio]

Entertainment and enjoyment are enjoyed on a week to week basis.

What's that got to do with what I posted?

[boatshed bill]

What's that got to do with what I posted?

What has most of this thread got to do with the original post?

[taio]

What's that got to do with what I posted?

Well the one you just quoted me on directly related to the original post.

[Rombald]

I agree but it doesn’t stop the fact that 2021 has been a nightmare year for him.

The great news is he has a transfer window and the rest of the season to turn things around.

Nightmare would have resulted in relegation mid way through the year.

[boatshed bill]

Well the one you just quoted me on directly related to the original post.

Oops.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

During the year we have played 3 fewer games than Newcastle and picked up 2 points less than them with us achieving 7 wins and them 8.
Room for improvement on both sides, bearing in mind that 2 of their wins were against us!

[Hibsclaret]

I very much doubt that any other current football manager would achieve as much with Burnley and our resources from the last 9 years as what Dyche has done. With that in mind I would suggest he has over achieved.

[Claret3495]

Out of how many games?

[boatshed bill]

It's no surprise that people twist the conversation.
Simply: is 7 PL games won in a calendar year good enough?

[Hibsclaret]

Simple answer. Yes when you haven’t been relegated with that record

[Ashingtonclaret46]

It's no surprise that people twist the conversation.
Simply: is 7 PL games won in a calendar year good enough?

I don't think that any manager would be happy with that, however, it is what it is and I am sure that Sean will be hoping to improve on that statistic, along with the rest of us!

[houseboy]

Is Dyche frustrating? Yes.
Does he talk b*ll*cks at times? Yes.
Is he a little too loyal to some players? Yes.
Does he treat cups with utter contempt? Yes.
Does he demand and get loyalty? It seems so.
Has he proved time and again he can pull us out of danger? Absolutely.
Does he care a toss what people on here think? No.
Is he right when he says we haven’t been playing too badly? Yes.
Will he turn it round again? Who knows but I think he will.

Better goal difference by far than most teams around us with as many as three games in hand on some and one win from being out of the bottom three. I think Saudi Utd fans and Leeds fans have far more to worry about than us and Norwich’s ‘new broom’ manager seems to have faded slightly. Watford aren’t doing too well either and but for COVID could well be below us now.

On balance it looks like a cup half full for me.

[dandeclaret]

It's no surprise that people twist the conversation.
Simply: is 7 PL games won in a calendar year good enough?

Good enough in what context? Is 35% possession in a game good enough? Is 1 away win in a season good enough?

As an isolated stat it’s pointless.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Good enough in what context? Is 35% possession in a game good enough? Is 1 away win in a season good enough?

As an isolated stat it’s pointless.

As a fan is that return good enough? If so I assume you would be happy if we had similar return for next 12 months

[dandeclaret]

Good enough in what context? Is 35% possession in a game good enough? Is 1 away win in a season good enough?

As an isolated stat it’s pointless.

As I stated earlier in the thread, if Burnley continue to over achieve, by staying in the premier league, achieving a position above where their spending and investment should have them placed, then yes, I will be pleased whether that's through 38 draws, 12 wins, or a mix of the 2. Context is everything.

What is your context for your regularly repeated view that the club is not over achieving?

[quoonbeatz]

Allardyce, Hughes etc…. Did it for years on similar budgets with loads of different clubs.

They really didn't.

[Spijed]

As a fan is that return good enough? If so I assume you would be happy if we had similar return for next 12 months

If we are still in the Prem then yes.

[Newcastleclaret93]

As I stated earlier in the thread, if Burnley continue to over achieve, by staying in the premier league, achieving a position above where their spending and investment should have them placed, then yes, I will be pleased whether that's through 38 draws, 12 wins, or a mix of the 2. Context is everything.

What is your context for your regularly repeated view that the club is not over achieving?

I would say currently in the league our wage bill is probably 4th lowest. No way to prove either way as the leagues financial figures are not out.

We know our wages are higher than leeds and Norwich as a minimum. I would also argue they are currently higher than Southamptons and Palace. Both of them clubs got rid of high earners and brought in youth.

As I said earlier If we are relegated now it’s under achieving. If we stay up it’s achieving. Anything higher can be deemed as over achieving.

[Tall Paul]

I doubt we pay more wages than Leeds. Probably just Brentford and Norwich have lower wage budgets.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I doubt we pay more wages than Leeds. Probably just Brentford and Norwich have lower wage budgets.

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leed ... 088052.amp

[Tall Paul]

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leed ... 088052.amp

The Spotrac figures that article is based on are absolute garbage. Just do a little digging and you'll see why.

Here's a link to ours to start you off
https://www.spotrac.com/epl/burnley-fc/payroll/

[tiger76]

Is Dyche frustrating? Yes.
Does he talk b*ll*cks at times? Yes.
Is he a little too loyal to some players? Yes.
Does he treat cups with utter contempt? Yes.
Does he demand and get loyalty? It seems so.
Has he proved time and again he can pull us out of danger? Absolutely.
Does he care a toss what people on here think? No.
Is he right when he says we haven’t been playing too badly? Yes.
Will he turn it round again? Who knows but I think he will.

Better goal difference by far than most teams around us with as many as three games in hand on some and one win from being out of the bottom three. I think Saudi Utd fans and Leeds fans have far more to worry about than us and Norwich’s ‘new broom’ manager seems to have faded slightly. Watford aren’t doing too well either and but for COVID could well be below us now.

On balance it looks like a cup half full for me.

Sums up my thoughts pretty much to a tee houseboy. And this is a regular conversation every season, and every season SD turns our fortunes around, so I see no reason why he won't do so again.

[Newcastleclaret93]

The Spotrac figures that article is based on are absolute garbage. Just do a little digging and you'll see why.

Here's a link to ours to start you off
https://www.spotrac.com/epl/burnley-fc/payroll/

Looks pretty spot on to me.

Obviously it’s not going to be 100% accurate as figures for this season won’t be out for another 18 months. But that site looks pretty accurate

[boatshed bill]

Looks pretty spot on to me.

Obviously it’s not going to be 100% accurate as figures for this season won’t be out for another 18 months. But that site looks pretty accurate

Pieters our 3rd highest earner?

[Tall Paul]

Looks pretty spot on to me.

Obviously it’s not going to be 100% accurate as figures for this season won’t be out for another 18 months. But that site looks pretty accurate

You think Cornet, Collins, Hennessey and Roberts are playing for free? Have you looked at the figures for Leeds?

[Newcastleclaret93]

Pieters our 3rd highest earner?

I believe he was on around 50k at Stoke so could see it being true.

[Newcastleclaret93]

You think Cornet, Collins, Hennessey and Roberts are playing for free? Have you looked at the figures for Leeds?

Off course not, they just haven’t updated it for new signings.

Yes I believe the figures are correct for Leeds, a lot of there squad are players they signed whilst being a mid table championship club

[Tall Paul]

Off course not, they just haven’t updated it for new signings.

Yes I believe the figures are correct for Leeds, a lot of there squad are players they signed whilst being a mid table championship club

So if there are certain players' wages missing, how can it be accurately used for comparison?

They've got Kalvin Phillips on 4.5k a week. It's complete nonsense, or hopelessly out of date.

[daveisaclaret]

The Spotrac figures that article is based on are absolute garbage. Just do a little digging and you'll see why.

Here's a link to ours to start you off
https://www.spotrac.com/epl/burnley-fc/payroll/

Even if you believed this website had full knowledge of this salary info which is not public, surely it would give you pause to see they’ve got us paying £20k a week to a Brentford player

[claret2018]

Difficult to argue we are still over-achieving after so many years of PL payments. We aren’t some plucky championship side full of players on 10 bob a week that’s just been promoted any more, so the over-achieving thing just doesn’t apply any more.

[MrVmax]

Our 7th place finish with our resources to qualify for Europe must go down as one of the best achievements in modern football.

Absolutely, right up there with Leicester winning the title for me. As a team , with all due respect, we were full of other teams cast offs and lower division players promoted to the premier league and certainly no England centre forward up top.

[Tall Paul]

Even if you believed this website had full knowledge of this salary info which is not public, surely it would give you pause to see they’ve got us paying £20k a week to a Brentford player

Hadn't even noticed that.

It's pretty easy to instantly dismiss a table that has a PL club's total annual wage bill at less than £18m without any further investigation though.

[claret2018]

Absolutely, right up there with Leicester winning the title for me. As a team , with all due respect, we were full of other teams cast offs and lower division players promoted to the premier league and certainly no England centre forward up top.

It’s nothing like Leicester winning the league.

[dandeclaret]

Difficult to argue we are still over-achieving after so many years of PL payments. We aren’t some plucky championship side full of players on 10 bob a week that’s just been promoted any more, so the over-achieving thing just doesn’t apply any more.

It doesn't matter how much you spend, if everybody else spends more. I saw somebody say earlier that Wigan hadn't had the best part of a billion.... it's irrelevant. What is relevant, is what were they spending in comparison to everybody else in the division. And Burnley have consistently featured lower in the league table of spend, than the league table of points.

[Shaggy]

It doesn't matter how much you spend, if everybody else spends more. I saw somebody say earlier that Wigan hadn't had the best part of a billion.... it's irrelevant. What is relevant, is what were they spending in comparison to everybody else in the division. And Burnley have consistently featured lower in the league table of spend, than the league table of points.

We haven’t had the diamonds to spend because they have been wasted. Dyche hasn’t tried to build for the future or sell
Anyone for profit. That’s a major reason why we have frittered away the cash. Handing out large contracts to the likes of Walters, Beardsley, Lennon who have zero payback.

We should really have sold Tarkowski last year for a huge profit and brought in a younger player(s) who we could get up to speed then rinse and repeat. That’s how we need to compete. But our manager is the opposite end to that, he just wants old pro’s

[dandeclaret]

We haven’t had the diamonds to spend because they have been wasted. Dyche hasn’t tried to build for the future or sell
Anyone for profit. That’s a major reason why we have frittered away the cash. Handing out large contracts to the likes of Walters, Beardsley, Lennon who have zero payback.

We should really have sold Tarkowski last year for a huge profit and brought in a younger player(s) who we could get up to speed then rinse and repeat. That’s how we need to compete. But our manager is the opposite end to that, he just wants old pro’s

AS the signings of Keane, Tarkowski, Collins, Taylor and Pope clearly showed....... It's about the right mix. They bought a replacement for Tarkowski.... it was Ben Gibson. Alas, transfers, regularly don't work out for one reason or another. You've simplified building a successful football club, that delivers results way above it's investment to putting on a washing machine. If it was that easy, why aren't all 92 clubs doing it? Why are Forest, Derby, QPR, West Brom, Birmingham et al not just doing it?