Relegation

[Devils_Advocate]

Would be grateful if those who cant face up to reality could avoid this thread. If you don’t think we will be relegated, there’s plenty of other threads you can say so on. This is one of realism and planning for a future in the Championship

Simple question: what do we need to do if we get relegated?

I’ll start.

1/ First we need Mr Pace to have a sensible plan that ensures we use the parachute payments and player sales to transition our club into a sustainable position that if we do not go up in year 1 or 2 is not going to be crippled by unsustainable loan repayments and wage bill

2/ I think we need a fresh start with a fresh manager and start to look to bring young hungry players in. It needs to be out with the old and in with the new like when Howe refreshed the team after Laws. That said we cant afford to sack Dyche so if he wants to stay we have to back him but be clear that he needs to find a new approach

3/ Any surplus money once Mr Pace as put a long term sustainable plan in place should be put into wages and transfers fees either for new players or hanging on to our better existing ones in year one to give it as good a shot as we can. Next season we will still be in a very strong position and one of the favourites to go up so as long as we dont bet the ranch and put the future of the club at risk we should go for it

[conyoviejo]

Shouldn't this thread be put on hold until we are mathematically relegated. Until then it's all hypothetical.Nothing to discuss until then.

[Jakubclaret]

It’s a far more constructive thread than pretending everything’s rosy in the garden when it clearly isn’t.

[Dark Cloud]

I'm in!

[ClaretDiver]

After a flurry of ridiculous posts this is one that makes sense.....We may survive however, nothing wrong with speculating as to what will need to be done to survive as a club should we do get relegated!

[Lancasterclaret]

The reality of relegation is that do we gamble that we can get back up with one or two seasons, and if we don't go back up, then find ourselves completely screwed, or do we cost cut straight away and hope that we can pull another Dyche (first time) promotion

[jedi_master]

The reality of relegation is that do we gamble that we can get back up with one or two seasons, and if we don't go back up, then find ourselves completely screwed, or do we cost cut straight away and hope that we can pull another Dyche (first time) promotion

I think there’s an in between there - which would be my stance.

Sell McNeil, Pope and Cornet and do half and half with that (I.e, pay off debt / use to strengthen). As Weghorst has signed knowing our situation, my belief must be that he is here come what May to try and fire us back up. His record suggests he would be utterly ridiculous at Championship level.

Utilise the loan and free transfer market as there will be plenty of good replacements available for ours that are out of contract - Tom Lawrence from Derby as an example.

Key to extend Ben Mee and I’d be trying to keep Vydra if we are relegated as he is proven down there.

[jrgbfc]

Refresh the squad with young, hungry players. No more contract extensions for older players because they're "good in the dressing room". If Dyche isn't on board with this then it's time to part ways, whatever it costs.
It won't be easy, because assuming the likes of McNeil, Cornet and Wieghorst moved on there's a real lack of attacking quality. Would be a huge rebuild needed.

[nyclaret]

First thing’s first… no contract offers/extensions to those OOO in the summer. Mee can stay.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Unless the players force a move, we shouldn't be selling Pope, Cornet or McNeil.
Look at what Cornet is doing now in the PL, he'd rip the championship apart I think.

Whatever happens this season, we are going to be having a rebuild in the summer.

Do we think Barnes and Jay can be useful players in the championship?
If so, then they're worth a years extension, if not then we need to replace them and also Vydra will most likely be off.

3 attacking spots to fill and I would suggest we find some young, hungry talent.
Spurs were chasing a lad from the 7th tier but he turned them down, or priced himself out of a move, but he could be worth a look.

I think the club will need to pull out all the stops to ensure we can mount a strong promotion challenge straight out of the gate.

We'd have financial muscle with the parachute payments and a manager who's proven in the championship whilst also playing some good football.

[Vino blanco]

With Tarks going, I would try everything to keep hold of Cornet, McNeil, Pope etc and get rid of the deadwood like Westwood, Pieters, Bardsley, Cork, Lennon, Barnes and regrettably JBG and Jayrod. If possible, I would bring in players like Barton and Defour in midfield who will try and retain the ball and create genuine chances. Not a lot to ask, I know.

[dsr]

Point 2. We will not find a manager with a better record of promotion from the Championship than Sean Dyche. Certainly if you feel that this squad is woefully underperforming and another manager would have us doing a lot better, then get rid. But I feel that there are features of this season that are not Dyche's fault and sacking him just because we're cross isn't the answer.

The last two of Dyche's seasons in the Championship have been both entertaining and successful. We may have a losing formula at the moment, but if we do, we won't make it better by chucking out the bit that has been consistently successful.

[Devils_Advocate]

Point 2. We will not find a manager with a better record of promotion from the Championship than Sean Dyche. Certainly if you feel that this squad is woefully underperforming and another manager would have us doing a lot better, then get rid. But I feel that there are features of this season that are not Dyche's fault and sacking him just because we're cross isn't the answer.

The last two of Dyche's seasons in the Championship have been both entertaining and successful. We may have a losing formula at the moment, but if we do, we won't make it better by chucking out the bit that has been consistently successful.

Im not cross and past performance is not always indicative of future performance. I dont think Dyche will get us promoted next season if we go down and I think if we dont go up under his management we will just get more stale and potentially lose a golden chance to refresh and re-energise the club.

If Dyche stays then I'll back him 100% and hope we have enough quality left to grind out performance but thats just my opinion and this is the kind of discussions that this thread was created for (although silly comments about people being crosss arent all that helpful).

[Rowls]

It’s a far more constructive thread than pretending everything’s rosy in the garden when it clearly isn’t.

It assumes the worst possible outcome in terms of how our season ends.

If that's your definition of "constructive" you need a re-think.

[jojomk1]

First thing’s first… no contract offers/extensions to those OOO in the summer. Mee can stay.

One things pretty much for sure, Ben Mee will be off with relegation

[Mattster]

I would keep Dyche if he wanted to stay - he's written off for wanting experienced, ageing players but think back to our first promotion and that team wasn't old - Heaton (27), Trippier (23), Mee (24), Shackell (29), Duff (35), Marney (28), Jones (28), Arfield (25), Kightly (27), Ings (21), Vokes (24)

So I don't think he's incapable of refreshing the squad with younger players, he just hasn't been backed to do that over recent years so has had to fall back on "solid old pros".


What I would do is release all OOC players bar Mee (do we have a 1 year option in his contract?) and Jay who I would keep around as someone who always scores against lower level opposition, is a good pro to have around the club and given his connection to the club would probably be reasonable with salary expectations.

We'd surely have to sell McNeil and Cornet and I'd imagine they bring in a little north of £50m. I doubt we get offers for anyone else, at least for values that are worthwhile (unless Weghorst is a goal scoring revelation). Half of the sales could be used to service debts, cover losses and the rest could be re-invested. We'd still have an experienced core so all signings should be under 27 with real potential to develop around that core.

So we'd have a defence of...

Pope
Roberts - Collins - Mee - Taylor

Which would be one of the best in the Championship (if not the best). Lowton, Thomas and maybe Dodgson would then be the depth so would need maybe two more signings here (a CB and an LB).

Of the midfield we have left Westwood and Brownhill would be considered starters but I'd want to transition to central 3 with these two being the holding 2 and looking to recruit a creative 10 to play in front of them. We'd also want to recruit 2 further rotation/development players for the middle of the park (a "10" and an "8").

I assume Weghorst would be kept and if we also keep Jay then we probably don't sign any more out and out strikers to allow a pathway for Richardson and possibly Mellon.

Where we'd really need to do our work would be in bringing in wide forwards in the mould of Cornet, needing to bring in 3 that would be capable of starting and scoring/creating goals. JBG would be competition/depth option for games where we would revert to a 4-4-2.

So we'd need to make 8 first team signings. A challenge but signing players for Championship level should be easier than Premier League as down there we'd be one of the big fish.

[jrgbfc]

One things pretty much for sure, Ben Mee will be off with relegation

Where is he going to go? I just don't see other Premier league clubs being that desperate to sign him, even on a free.

[bfcjg]

First thing I'd do is have a bonfire of those cringy half and half scarves.

[claretonthecoast1882]

First thing I'd do is have a bonfire of those cringy half and half scarves.

For the scarves or those wearing them

[Elbarad]

So, I'll start with I firmly believe we'll stay up. But... as you've started this thread reasonably DA I'll be happy to have the conversation.

1. I would not sell our best young players in the first season unless there's an offer we can't refuse. There's a decent chance we could bounce straight back up so I'd prefer not selling Cornet and McNeil for example.

2. Absolutely need to offload as many over 30 outfield players as possible. Even for pennies on the dollar. Take any transfer fees from them and invest in young players, probably players who are deemed surplus to requirements at one of the big 6. Like we did with Mee and McNeil. If we bring in 4-5 of them and only 1 or 2 prove good, we're still ahead of the game.

3. Dyche. Well... he's a fantastic manager, but even the best go stale after a time. I'm from the USA and the best example I have is from American football. Andy Reid was wonderful for the Philadelphia Eagles, but eventually he had a few bad years, the Eagles fired him and a couple of years later won the Super Bowl. The Kansas City Chiefs hired him and have been to 2 Super Bowls. It's not that he was a bad coach, far from it he's excellent. It's just a change was needed.

4. Regardless of if we stay up or go down, we need to make changes to CM. It's about to become a crisis if it's not already. I like Westwood and Brownhill. But neither is the answer as a primary CM. Maybe one of both could be useful playing off another, better player. But neither is good enough as the 'stud'.

[Burnley Ace]

It’s a far more constructive thread than pretending everything’s rosy in the garden when it clearly isn’t.

Constructive for whom?

[Top Claret]

If we get relegated it will be to our advantage having all those ooc players, in that we can trim the wage bill and bring in younger players.

I would also sell any players who don't have a relegation clause in their contract.

The only player I might sell is Pope if we were offered silly money to help fund incoming transfers

Dyche is the man to take us back to the premier league , replacing him would be an expensive gamble

[ClaretMov]

We will be 99.9% relegated, we will only stay up if Newcastle go down, we won't catch the rest.

Pope
Taylor
Mee
Collins
Roberts
Lowton
Cornet
McNeil
Brownhill
Westwood
Vydra
Rodriguez
Weghorst

Keep all the above if possible and bin the rest, then bring in 5 or 6 younger hungry player's and pray we bounce back within 2 season's because every season after that will get harder and harder,

Plus side

More game's
More Saturday game's
No VAR
No player's falling over
More night matches
We win more game's
Money wise we are a bigger fish in a smaller pond
Loads of big local games

[boatshed bill]

I don't know if people follow this, but we could lose 15 from the U23s as well! I'm assuming their contracts all run until the summer.
And this includes the best ones.

[Dy1geo]

I would be loathe to giving contract extensions to Jay and Barnes as if we did get up we would be in the position where in season 23/24 we would have to replace them.

It would be down to Dyche to pull a rabbit out of the gate like he did with Andre Gray who would score the goals and hopefully get a sell on profit.

[Jakubclaret]

It assumes the worst possible outcome in terms of how our season ends.

If that's your definition of "constructive" you need a re-think.

It’s more likely to happen than not happen so yes it’s more constructive to be prepared.

[Jakubclaret]

Constructive for whom?

To further the discussion.

[Rowls]

It’s more likely to happen than not happen so yes it’s more constructive to be prepared.

We'd still be in division 4 if the club had your attitude.

When Jimmy Mullen took over it was more likely we'd be in division four than not.

When Stan took over it was more likely we'd be relegated than promoted.

When Dyche took over it was more likely we'd be relegated to the third tier than promoted to the top flight.

You're so negative it's perversely comical. It's not even clear if you're a parody account or whether you're being genuine.

If you're being genuine with your endless dirge I heartily recommend a walk up Pendle Hill.

[Burnley Ace]

To further the discussion.

To what end?

[alf_resco]

Relegation is almost nailed-on. It's mathematically avoidable obviously but to expect this current team to suddenly win 6 or 7 games out of the blue seems a tall order. Who exactly, Watford apart, do we realistically expect to beat?
A large part of the problem(s) has to be laid at Sean Dyche's door. Yes he could have had more/better resources to work with but when you hear Wood admit he was in a "comfort zone" , then I suspect the same could apply to the manager; he appears "unsackable" , appears to have almost Fergusonesque total control, has been here nigh on 10 yrs, has a long-term multi-million pound contract and I haven't noticed any other clubs gagging to wrest him from us. If that doesn't induce a "comfort zone" feeling, I don't know what does.
So, imo unless SD walks of his own volition (doubtful), he needs to up his own game. He needs to be more flexible, adaptive and pro-active in game times ans assuming he has some input into recruitments, he just has to look at younger, fresher and faster players; we've lacked pace and initiative, especially in midfield, for years.
A HUGE clearout is needed, not a bit of tinkering round the edges. If relegation does happen, OOC players plus parachute money SHOULD make a complete overhaul possible. But the owners and Dyche, plus the scouting network need to all be reading from the same page.

[Devils_Advocate]

We'd still be in division 4 if the club had your attitude.

When Jimmy Mullen took over it was more likely we'd be in division four than not.

When Stan took over it was more likely we'd be relegated than promoted.

When Dyche took over it was more likely we'd be relegated to the third tier than promoted to the top flight.

You're so negative it's perversely comical. It's not even clear if you're a parody account or whether you're being genuine.

If you're being genuine with your endless dirge I heartily recommend a walk up Pendle Hill.

This threads for people who want to discuss what they think should be the plan if we get relegated and not for people to start bickering because they think people have a negative attitude.

If you want to argue with people about negativity then start your own thread and please leave the rest of us to have a civilised discussion

[Jakubclaret]

We'd still be in division 4 if the club had your attitude.

When Jimmy Mullen took over it was more likely we'd be in division four than not.

When Stan took over it was more likely we'd be relegated than promoted.

When Dyche took over it was more likely we'd be relegated to the third tier than promoted to the top flight.

You're so negative it's perversely comical. It's not even clear if you're a parody account or whether you're being genuine.

If you're being genuine with your endless dirge I heartily recommend a walk up Pendle Hill.

Of course I’m being genuine, it might have a little bit of something to do with winning 1 game all season, having the worst form guide in the entire football league, selling our best striker & just exiting a transfer window without strengthening you could argue weakening, & the team look knackered & half arsed (a few games exempt) I really don’t know why I’m not encouraged about us surviving.

[Jamesy]

I wonder if a relegation clause was factored into Dyche’s new contract? We don’t really want to be paying him circa £80k per week in the Championship.

[Rowls]

Of course I’m being genuine

My mistake Jakub.

I am sorry. Truly, I am.

[Jakubclaret]

My mistake Jakub.

I am sorry. Truly, I am.

I’ve offered an explanation why I think we’ll get relegated if you can compile a list of reasons why we won’t & outweigh this argument then I’ll reconsider.

[Mrpotatohead]

Not read the whole thread so apologies if somebody has already made this point. Point 2 - Had Dyche gone at the beginning of Jan I wouldn't have been too fussed, maybe a change is what we needed. However, we've decided to stick rather than twist, it makes zero sense to me to then sack a manager who has got us promoted two full seasons out of two in the Championship for someone who won't have a record that comes close.

[jrgbfc]

I wonder if a relegation clause was factored into Dyche’s new contract? We don’t really want to be paying him circa £80k per week in the Championship.

You'd like to think so. Immediately rewarding Dyche with a big long term contract was pretty naive I thought. Should have taken time to properly get settled in and then assess things.

[I Don't Eat Worms]

Not expecting us to go down, but in the spirit of the thread I think relegation will go one of two ways:

1) Keep hold of our best players (minus Tarkowski), and we can look to strengthen the squad and go straight back up. Need Dyche for this as well, last few years have shown that clubs that keep their best players (Norwich, Watford, Fulham) can easily come back up. Those who change managers and players (Bournemouth, Sheffield Utd) do not. Personally would keep Cork, Pieters, Jay & Barnes (1yr only) for back-up if finances allow, 3/4 quality additions across midfield we should romp the league

2) Cornet, McNeil, Pope etc all leave. More difficult to bounce back, but a chance to change the style of play and personnel in the squad. Replace with younger assets inc loans, and chance for youth team to progress to first team (Richardson, Gomez-Mancini, Helm etc). Possible move to 3-5-2. Unlikely to result in promotion first year down, but would set us up for promotion in 2-3 years

I'd be looking at a much bigger overhaul if we stay up - previous 4 mentioned can all go (maybe Jay can stay) along with other out of contract players

[Jamesy]

You'd like to think so. Immediately rewarding Dyche with a big long term contract was pretty naive I thought. Should have taken time to properly get settled in and then assess things.
[/quote



My reply:
It’s not as if there would have been a long line of clubs queuing up for his services if he hadn’t have agreed his handsome new contract at Burnley.

[jojomk1]

Where is he going to go? I just don't see other Premier league clubs being that desperate to sign him, even on a free.

If no other Prem club will be desperate to sign him why should we ? (joking)

He will get offers from some Prem clubs inc those poss going up

Imagine Ben playing for those down the road

[ClaretMov]

Newcastle's last 5 game's look interesting

Screenshot_20220201-220211_Google.jpg (63.69 KiB) Viewed 1613 times

[claretandbluesky]

Get Peacock -Farrell and Phillips back at the club. Get Richardson, Helm, Mancini and Thomas on board.
Get a new up and coming manager with flexible ideas.
Prepare for 2/3 seasons of development
Realise it is a long-term project not a quick fix
Be signing young ambitious players with something to prove.
Keep Mee Westwood and Jay of possible
Hope ALK have the resources to see the project back on track.
Look to play entertaining football to attract a wider range of players.
Be fearless.