Pope a Steal

[dandeclaret]

So we wait til deadline day, hoping Newcastle will sit there and wait, and if Newcastle move on and nobody else comes in ?

The club already knew if relegated he wanted to move on, considering again that at the fee being quoted still nobody else came in and at least matched Newcastle's bid ? There is 1 week to go in the window which Prem clubs are currently still looking for a new number 1 goalkeeper.

Everybody accepts we would have liked more money but whinging over and over about what we got when the proof is there were no other offers is just dull.

Then the club have got one of the top 5 keepers in the country until the winter deadline. Fofana and tielamans want to leave Leicester, but they know the later they push it in the window the stronger their position becomes as the selling club, when you have an asset of such quality.

[taio]

Again I will ask, why did no other club match Newcastle's bid ?

Which Prem clubs are still looking for a new number 1 and which have signed a new number 1 this summer ?

Even if there wasn't other interest slowing the deal down would have been a better negotiating position than fast tracking it through. Other clubs may have been interested and he wasn't confined to the PL.

[claretonthecoast1882]

The thread title makes it crystal clear what this thread is about without having to even open it. Those who dont want to see people's views could have easily stayed away from this particular thread.

I have asked your views but you seem to be holding out.

Why did nobody match Newcastle's bid with it being such a bargain and which clubs in the Prem are still after a new number 1. I rate him a much bette keeper than Henderson, why didn't Forest who seem to be throwing money at any club who says yes come in for him ?

Just to be sure you understand my view, I wanted more money for him but when the constant reply to the above questions is none I accept what happened. It is like when Trippier left it took some people years to understand what happened some still don't

[Jakubclaret]

Pope should have stayed another season it would have been more advantageous securing his services thus improving our promotion prospects than it was to pick £10 mil up regardless of how pope felt he was under contract, we didn't have to sell & it made no sense to.

[Duffer_]

Pope said in his recent interview with the Athletic how he had heard of Newcastle’s interest weeks before the deal and was keen for it to progress. He also said Southgate told him playing in the Championship would affect his chances of making the World Cup squad.

As for not standing in his way, an Athletic article by Andy Jones suggested there had been conversations with Pope and we would not stand it his way, should fair offers be received.

Hope that clears it up a bit.

Yes, thanks, confirms what I said - hyperbole and supposition.

[dandeclaret]

I have asked your views but you seem to be holding out.

Why did nobody match Newcastle's bid with it being such a bargain and which clubs in the Prem are still after a new number 1. I rate him a much bette keeper than Henderson, why didn't Forest who seem to be throwing money at any club who says yes come in for him ?

Just to be sure you understand my view, I wanted more money for him but when the constant reply to the above questions is none I accept what happened. It is like when Trippier left it took some people years to understand what happened some still don't

Trippier was contractual…. There was no choice. Pope wasn’t…. There was a choice. There are clubs struggling now, they start to panic, Leicester, West Ham, there could have been bids if the club had utilised something that was on their side… time. They didn’t, they just threw that key bargaining chip away for a fast buck.

[Swizzlestick]

It would had been pretty remiss not to allow Pope to play at the highest level especially with a World Cup around the corner. I think we could and perhaps should have got more for him, but it’s evident the player wanted to go and, as has been highlighted, there doesn’t seem have been a lot of interest from elsewhere - I think he fell into the Dyche crossfire of getting a bad press due to outside perception - being overly criticised for his distribution, which appears to be flavour of the month for keepers, and erroneously marked as a good shot stopper and not much more in some quarters.

[forzagranata]

There is an art to selling players for maximum value. For example, how many clubs are in a bidding war for Fofana? Yet Leicester turning down bids from Chelsea. The player wants to leave…just like Cucurella wanted to sign for Man City…..

I don’t think anyone in football thinks Burnley did well to sell Pope for £10-11 million.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Trippier was contractual…. There was no choice. Pope wasn’t…. There was a choice. There are clubs struggling now, they start to panic, Leicester, West Ham, there could have been bids if the club had utilised something that was on their side… time. They didn’t, they just threw that key bargaining chip away for a fast buck.

So a better plan was to wait til the last few days of the window, hope a club panics, hope they decide after 3 games that they are struggling and what they need is a new number 1 gk and then hope they bid more. We then also hope that the keeper we want to replace him hasn't gone elsewhere and slots straight into a new team once the season has started.

[Nori1958]

Pope said in his recent interview with the Athletic how he had heard of Newcastle’s interest weeks before the deal and was keen for it to progress. He also said Southgate told him playing in the Championship would affect his chances of making the World Cup squad.

As for not standing in his way, an Athletic article by Andy Jones suggested there had been conversations with Pope and we would not stand it his way, should fair offers be received.

Hope that clears it up a bit.

It won't because lots of posters currently have a certain agenda against the club, and won't let little things like facts get in the way of that

[dandeclaret]

So a better plan was to wait til the last few days of the window, hope a club panics, hope they decide after 3 games that they are struggling and what they need is a new number 1 gk and then hope they bid more. We then also hope that the keeper we want to replace him hasn't gone elsewhere and slots straight into a new team once the season has started.

A better plan is to utilise all the available leverage to increase the chances of getting the best price for your player / asset. The only leverage the club had was putting on a front that the didn't want to sell, and time. They made it clear they wouldn't stand in the way of any players (Kompany tried to play this down when he started doing press conferences) and they sold early. The club should have confidence in the quality of player they had. Sign the new keeper, the club were already entertaining the release of the 2nd choice keeper, put up a pretence that your new £2m signing is a back up keeper to keep Pope on his toes, and work from there. Granted it's a thin veneer.... a bit like putting a door on a shop, rather than it being a wide open free for all.

[Jakubclaret]

There is an art to selling players for maximum value. For example, how many clubs are in a bidding war for Fofana? Yet Leicester turning down bids from Chelsea. The player wants to leave…just like Cucurella wanted to sign for Man City…..

I don’t think anyone in football thinks Burnley did well to sell Pope for £10-11 million.

Some people seem to have the idea on here that contracts mean nothing & are worthless & if any said player when under contract wants to leave we are powerless to prevent that from happening, I agree about the maximum value some sort of mechanism should have been inserted into pope's contract ensuring at least 20mil had to be offered before considering it acceptable.

[taio]

So a better plan was to wait til the last few days of the window, hope a club panics, hope they decide after 3 games that they are struggling and what they need is a new number 1 gk and then hope they bid more. We then also hope that the keeper we want to replace him hasn't gone elsewhere and slots straight into a new team once the season has started.

He was sold almost two and a half months prior to the window closing- that's the point.

[Big Vinny K]

So a better plan was to wait til the last few days of the window, hope a club panics, hope they decide after 3 games that they are struggling and what they need is a new number 1 gk and then hope they bid more. We then also hope that the keeper we want to replace him hasn't gone elsewhere and slots straight into a new team once the season has started.

Yes - that is a much better plan actually (other than your last bit which would have been easily avoidable)

Look at a couple of things that happened unexpectedly after we sold Pope.
Leicester sold their keeper and now having to start with Welsh number 2.
Fulham bought Leno.
De Gea plays like Alan Rough on a bad day.

I just do not see any other precedent as to how quickly we sold him and for so little fee with any other teams transfer dealings - even those who were relegated as look at the way Watford have dealt with Pedro, Sarr and Dennis.

[forzagranata]

A better plan is to utilise all the available leverage to increase the chances of getting the best price for your player / asset. The only leverage the club had was putting on a front that the didn't want to sell, and time. They made it clear they wouldn't stand in the way of any players (Kompany tried to play this down when he started doing press conferences) and they sold early. The club should have confidence in the quality of player they had. Sign the new keeper, the club were already entertaining the release of the 2nd choice keeper, put up a pretence that your new £2m signing is a back up keeper to keep Pope on his toes, and work from there. Granted it's a thin veneer.... a bit like putting a door on a shop, rather than it being a wide open free for all.

Exactly. What you don’t want is the player’s agent telling the buying club that the seller has agreed to let him go for a ‘reasonable fee’ and they won’t stand in his way. Agent then says that all the buyer needs to do is put a bit extra into the player’s wages….

[Big Vinny K]

Some people seem to have the idea on here that contracts mean nothing & are worthless & if any said player when under contract wants to leave we are powerless to prevent that from happening, I agree about the maximum value some sort of mechanism should have been inserted into pope's contract ensuring at least 20mil had to be offered before considering it acceptable.

Absolute tosh.

[Jakubclaret]

Absolute tosh.

If that's rubbish why do we always hear so & so wanted to leave as some sort of reason/justification for letting the player go? Pope wanted to leave to stay in the PL, pope wanted to go so Southgate would consider him, nobody seems to mention an obstacle beginning with the letter C & ending in the letter t & if you haven't guessed it's a word consisting of 8 letters.

[Nori1958]

If that's rubbish why do we always hear so & so wanted to leave as some sort of reason/justification for letting the player go? Pope wanted to leave to stay in the PL, pope wanted to go so Southgate would consider him, nobody seems to mention an obstacle beginning with the letter C & ending in the letter t & if you haven't guessed it's a word consisting of 8 letters.

You do realise we are talking about a person here, and not a piece of meat..

[Stayingup]

Precisely - the fee has never actually been revealed or confirmed. True to form, there are endless conversations regarding something none of us have any knowledge of!

In which case it could have been less than 10 million for all anybody knows.

[Lancasterclaret]

Clearly a cash flow issue for us I'd have thought

But its done now, and I think we got fairly to very good money for our transfers out this season (for balance)

[Big Vinny K]

If that's rubbish why do we always hear so & so wanted to leave as some sort of reason/justification for letting the player go? Pope wanted to leave to stay in the PL, pope wanted to go so Southgate would consider him, nobody seems to mention an obstacle beginning with the letter C & ending in the letter t & if you haven't guessed it's a word consisting of 8 letters.

What are you talking about now ?
If you haven’t guessed it’s a word beginning with fruit and ending in loop

[Jakubclaret]

What are you talking about now ?
If you haven’t guessed it’s a word beginning with fruit and ending in loop

Ha ha don't quit your day job I've just pulled my back picking my rib up from the floor, can we discuss nick pope please & leave the jokes aside or is that too much to ask?

[Stalbansclaret]

Without exception my friends who support other teams but follow football generally expressed surprise at how cheaply we sold him. Other posters on this thread have eloquently expressed the opinion that we we should have used the leverage of time that was on our side which I 100% agree with.

[Dingo]

If we kept Pope a bit longer we'd have only been delaying the inevitable in the hope of an increased fee which may have not even materialised. But doing so would have most likely undermined and delayed VK's attempt to implement a new style given how key the keeper is to this. I think the club was correct in selling our top players as soon as possible to create a blank canvas for VK.

The point about the worth of contracts is an interesting one and probably worthy of a thread to see people's views on it. For me, a player who wishes to change club should always be allowed to. I find the whole idea of forcing players to honour contracts inherently wrong, though I can understand it might offer financial protection to smaller clubs - there are many arguments for and against I guess. The fundamental point is the right of individuals to choose where to work and I've always found it uncomfortable that club's are able to control their players in this way.

[SalisburyClaret]

Pope wanted to go as Southgate told him he’s only going to stand a chance if he’s playing in the PL. Once that decision is in place then it’s a buyer’s market. Shows how poor some PL player recruitment is when there aren’t clubs competing for him. He’ll get Newcastle at least 10 extra points this season - that’s a brilliant return on their small investment

[Jakubclaret]

Pope wanted to go as Southgate told him he’s only going to stand a chance if he’s playing in the PL. Once that decision is in place then it’s a buyer’s market. Shows how poor some PL player recruitment is when there aren’t clubs competing for him. He’ll get Newcastle at least 10 extra points this season - that’s a brilliant return on their small investment

& more & likely doubling his wages is small beer pope couldn't wait to get up the A1 I don't think that's in any dispute.

[dsr]

If we kept Pope a bit longer we'd have only been delaying the inevitable in the hope of an increased fee which may have not even materialised. But doing so would have most likely undermined and delayed VK's attempt to implement a new style given how key the keeper is to this. I think the club was correct in selling our top players as soon as possible to create a blank canvas for VK.

The point about the worth of contracts is an interesting one and probably worthy of a thread to see people's views on it. For me, a player who wishes to change club should always be allowed to. I find the whole idea of forcing players to honour contracts inherently wrong, though I can understand it might offer financial protection to smaller clubs - there are many arguments for and against I guess. The fundamental point is the right of individuals to choose where to work and I've always found it uncomfortable that club's are able to control their players in this way.

I'm by no means convinced that Pope's distribution would be worse than Muric's. Muric hasn't yet struck me as being able to pick the right pass to play and to play it accurately.

[Papabendi]

You’re mixing wide groups of people. He’s one of the top 5 keepers in the country. If newcastles bid was the only one on the table at deadline day, then by all means accept it then. Surely when negotiating you use all the leverage you can…. Time should have been on our side, and we just casually tossed that leverage away.

How do we know if Newcastle would have still been interested on deadline day? They may have moved on by that point. Plus we may well have needed the money at that point to fund other transfers. How much do you estimate we could have achieved by waiting? Y

[RVclaret]

How do we know if Newcastle would have still been interested on deadline day? They may have moved on by that point. Plus we may well have needed the money at that point to fund other transfers. How much do you estimate we could have achieved by waiting? Y

They were linked with another 2/3 keepers at the time too. Clearly would have moved on quickly. People live in a fantasy land.

[Swizzlestick]

Muric hasn't yet struck me as being able to pick the right pass to play and to play it accurately.

I thought he did this regularly in the Huddersfield and Hull games, in particular. He’s the main reason we’re having circa 70% possession in games. It was too much against Blackpool, but hopefully lesson learned.

[Hapag Lloyd]

How do we know if Newcastle would have still been interested on deadline day? They may have moved on by that point. Plus we may well have needed the money at that point to fund other transfers. How much do you estimate we could have achieved by waiting? Y

Definitely 2 points, possibly 4.

[IanMcL]

Age was the reason. If he was younger, he would have gone for a lot more.

Hardly at peak age for a goalkeeper. They play until late thirties and only mature as a keeper around 30, when they have mastered positioning rather than leaping about from a poor starting point.

Pope is an incredible keeper and vastly undersold.

[IanMcL]

I thought he did this regularly in the Huddersfield and Hull games, in particular. He’s the main reason we’re having circa 70% possession in games. It was too much against Blackpool, but hopefully lesson learned.

Well we had 85% against Shrewsbury and BPF either played a very simple pass or kicked up field, like Pope.

Very little difference, except the quality of goalkeeping.

[Quickenthetempo]

With Forest reportedly bidding 10m earlier than Newcastle, I would assume our club put it out there they would be willing to sell for such a price.

[Swizzlestick]

Well we had 85% against Shrewsbury and BPF either played a very simple pass or kicked up field, like Pope.

Very little difference, except the quality of goalkeeping.

I wasn’t there but I’ll take your word for it - also worth bearing in mind Shrewsbury were a League One team playing for a draw/penalties.

[bfcjg]

FFS this is getting tedious, it's our club warts and all, the owners might not be our choice but we are where we are and we need to look forward now not back.

[Swizzlestick]

Why is it getting tedious, this has been a pretty decent debate with good points raised on both sides? Not a fan of this increasing tendency to kill debates if somebody doesn’t like them for whatever reason.

[bfcjg]

Why is it getting tedious, this has been a pretty decent debate with good points raised on both sides? Not a fan of this increasing tendency to kill debates if somebody doesn’t like them for whatever reason.

Perhaps because it had been done to death previously?

[Quickenthetempo]

I wasn’t there but I’ll take your word for it - also worth bearing in mind Shrewsbury were a League One team playing for a draw/penalties.

I wasn't there either but the stats suggest they were far more attacking than us.

When they had the ball.

[taio]

Perhaps because it had been done to death previously?

Again, it's clear and explicit what this thread is about from its title, meaning those who aren't interested in it needn't even open it.

[IanMcL]

I wasn’t there but I’ll take your word for it - also worth bearing in mind Shrewsbury were a League One team playing for a draw/penalties.

Far from it. They had more efforts to score, with their 15% than we even attempted!

Lots of corners and blocked shots. Even an offside goal.
They looked dangerous....we looked...in possession.

[Big Vinny K]

Perhaps because it had been done to death previously?

Don’t go on the thread then - it’s not like there’s a clue in the thread title as to it’s content.

Seemed pretty obvious to me that as he makes the kind of world class performances he did on Sunday some people (including me) are going to feel a bit more peeved about the way we dealt with the transfer.

But if you are fine with it and now find any debate tedious then not sure why you would read the thread or even worse take the time to post about how tedious you find the debate.

There are people still aggrieved about the way we sold Jimmy Mcllroy to Stoke nearly 60 years ago - so strap yourself in for a while yet !!

[bfcjg]

Again, it's clear and explicit what this thread is about from its title, meaning those who aren't interested in it needn't even open it.

So saying that we are going around in circles looking backwards with the debate isn't an approved comment ?

[bfcjg]

https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboa ... 0#p1886248
I think the transfer was covered here, why not open it up ?

[taio]

So saying that we are going around in circles looking backwards with the debate isn't an approved comment ?

You can say whatever you like. Im just pointing out to anyone not happy about the purpose and content of this thread could have stayed well clear of it because the subject matter is so obvious from its title.

[Colburn_Claret]

It would had been pretty remiss not to allow Pope to play at the highest level especially with a World Cup around the corner. I think we could and perhaps should have got more for him, but it’s evident the player wanted to go and, as has been highlighted, there doesn’t seem have been a lot of interest from elsewhere - I think he fell into the Dyche crossfire of getting a bad press due to outside perception - being overly criticised for his distribution, which appears to be flavour of the month for keepers, and erroneously marked as a good shot stopper and not much more in some quarters.

The media also made an excessive focus on Tarks and Mee. It was only the goalkeepers Union, and Burnley fans, that appreciated how good he is. Even Southgate doesn't get it.

[bfcjg]

You can say whatever you like. Im just pointing out to anyone not happy about the purpose and content of this thread could have stayed well clear of it because the subject matter is so obvious from its title.

Saying it is boring is a valid opinion, it has been debated before, I've put link on

[Vegas Claret]

He was a raw ingredient at the time..... he was undersold as the finished article.

if we could sell 1 million quid purchases for 15 every time we would have a very healthy club. FWIW I do think Newcastle got him a little too cheaply but that doesn't mean it was a terrible deal for us as some folks seem to suggest.

[spt_claret]

Perhaps because it had been done to death previously?

The reason it keeps coming up is because things occur which prompt reopening the debate.

There's debates about whether there should be tax changes, more/less government spending, more/less privatisation, literally all year every year. Because things keep happening which prompt reconsidering. Debates aren't static it's not "okay a decision was made and a conversation had and that's it forever".

And for what it's worth I can echo the view that I and my neutral mates who I've spoke to about it found Pope to be undersold. One guy would have put him at 15-20, one didn't have a figure just found it crazy cheap.

[quoonbeatz]

Obviously we didn't get what he's worth but that's the price of relegation.