Worst keeper since Kiraly

[Bordeauxclaret]

I thought he did really well with the one on one in the second half.
Forced the striker, think it was Campbell, into making an early decision.

[ClaretPete001]

Statistics, statistics, damn lies and statistics eh ?!!

We have played and done well against teams in the top 8 - they may not be in the top 8 now but they were when we played them !! For example, Hull were top and we played them off the park. Bristol City were in the top 6 and so were Watford.

Point is though it’s just too early in the season in my opinion to make these kind of judgements. Forest proved last year you can climb the league very quickly if you put a good run together.

I don’t think the league is of great quality and it’s certainly far poorer in quality than the last time we were in the division. I think at least half the division have the potential to make the top 6 and based on the start of the season we are definitely one of those. Is there any other team so far that have spent as long as we have in the top 6 ?

Vinny, given you don't think that 12 games is enough to make a judgement on the quality of a team then the question you ask is somewhat mute.

On the other hand, given I think you are not giving enough credence to stats, I will answer it.

Yes, we have been in the top 6 most of the season and I think we can assume from that we are a top 6 side.

But no doubt we could do a Forest, our form could change completely, and we could be relegated along with Norwich and Sheffield United.

[Big Vinny K]

Vinny, given you don't think that 12 games is enough to make a judgement on the quality of a team then the question you ask is somewhat mute.

On the other hand, given I think you are not giving enough credence to stats, I will answer it.

Yes, we have been in the top 6 most of the season and I think we can assume from that we are a top 6 side.

But no doubt we could do a Forest, our form could change completely, and we could be relegated along with Norwich and Sheffield United.

Pete you put together a post saying that you didn’t think we were good enough based on our results against the top 8 teams including an argument around their current league position.
I simply pointed out that logic was somewhat flawed as when we played a number of these teams they were in the top 8.

You are of course perfectly entitled to your opinion that you do not believe we are good enough to be promoted this year. Personally I think it’s too early to judge not only ourselves as a team (for a number of reasons including new system, new coach, new players, injuries etc) but also too soon to judge a number of other teams in the division too.

A couple of weeks ago some posters were saying that Sheffield United were running away with the league and last night they were beaten by QPR. Chris Willock for QPR is regarded by a number of commentators as the best young talent in the league. He scored the goal to beat Sheffield United and then went off with a hamstring injury after that. Clubs like QPR do not have the strength in depth in their squads or the financial resources we do. Sunderland are another club who have started the season pretty well but are absolutely skint. They lost the manager that had got them promoted to Stoke purely because they could not afford to give him a contract of any length and as a club have spent virtually zero on players after going up.

Point being I honestly don’t think we will see which teams are looking likely for top 6 until after Christmas or even later this season with the World Cup break. But I do think Burnley are better placed than a lot of clubs to cope with injuries, suspensions and also spend some pretty serious money (for this division relatively at least) in the January transfer window.

[KRBFC]

I have watched last night's goal several times. I am convinced Heaton or Pope would have saved it. As would, as a matter of interest, Alan Stevenson in his prime.

This is the issue though, why are we comparing him to Pope? but not comparing Tella to Cornet? Benson to Mcneil? Beyer to Mee? etc

Fwiw, I think Cornet scores more than Tella has this season, I also think Weghorst would've scored more than Jrod, I also think Mcneil would've been more productive than Benson. Cornet does better than Tella did in that 1v1.

The sooner Burnley fans realise Muric isn't Nick Pope at saving shots, the better for us all.

[boatshed bill]

This is the issue though, why are we comparing him to Pope? but not comparing Tella to Cornet? Benson to Mcneil? Beyer to Mee? etc

Fwiw, I think Cornet scores more than Tella has this season, I also think Weghorst would've scored more than Jrod, I also think Mcneil would've been more productive than Benson. Cornet does better than Tella did in that 1v1.

The sooner Burnley fans realise Muric isn't Nick Pope at saving shots, the better for us all.

Pope, valued by our fans at a minimum of £20 million. Sold for half that apparently.
Muric, signed for about £3 million?

People need to get real.

[boyyanno]

Pope, valued by our fans at a minimum of £20 million. Sold for half that apparently.
Muric, signed for about £3 million?

People need to get real.

To be fair what was Nick Pope signed for?

I think Muric needs a patch of consistency before he's going to win over the fan base. He's very good with his feet and last night for example I thought he had a decent game especially the 1 on 1 vs Cambell. He either punched or collected a lot more too which I thought also looked promising. The other side to that is he's probably already used up his quota for errors. I don't expect any keeper we sign in the next 50 years to be as good as Heaton or Pope but I would hope that we can find keepers who perform as consistently and with as few mistakes.

Brian Jensen gets hung drawn and quartered on here for not being a consistent performer, but he was also a match winner on his day in terms of shot stopping. Muric hasn't shown much to suggest he can be a match winner in that respect, but he certainly contributes to attacking/possession based moves with his distribution at the back. Ultimately though, like Jensen, unless he can eradicate the errors and perform consistently he is never going to win over the majority of the fan base imo.

Btw that doesn't mean I don't rate him but that's just how I see the situation.

[NewClaret]

This is the issue though, why are we comparing him to Pope? but not comparing Tella to Cornet? Benson to Mcneil? Beyer to Mee? etc

Fwiw, I think Cornet scores more than Tella has this season, I also think Weghorst would've scored more than Jrod, I also think Mcneil would've been more productive than Benson. Cornet does better than Tella did in that 1v1.

The sooner Burnley fans realise Muric isn't Nick Pope at saving shots, the better for us all.

Absolutely spot on KRBFC.

Honestly cannot fathom why people say “Pope would’ve saved that”. Of course he would because Pope is a top 5 Prem Keeper, one of the best in the world, is 7 years older than Muric and 100s of games more experienced.

As you say, Cornet scores or does better with the 1 v 1 and no thread on that.

[boatshed bill]

To be fair what was Nick Pope signed for?

I think Muric needs a patch of consistency before he's going to win over the fan base. He's very good with his feet and last night for example I thought he had a decent game especially the 1 on 1 vs Cambell. He either punched or collected a lot more too which I thought also looked promising. The other side to that is he's probably already used up his quota for errors. I don't expect any keeper we sign in the next 50 years to be as good as Heaton or Pope but I would hope that we can find keepers who perform as consistently and with as few mistakes.

Brian Jensen gets hung drawn and quartered on here for not being a consistent performer, but he was also a match winner on his day in terms of shot stopping. Muric hasn't shown much to suggest he can be a match winner in that respect, but he certainly contributes to attacking/possession based moves with his distribution at the back. Ultimately though, like Jensen, unless he can eradicate the errors and perform consistently he is never going to win over the majority of the fan base imo.

Btw that doesn't mean I don't rate him but that's just how I see the situation.

Pope was probably signed for much the same as Muric. The difference being he was signed as back-up.

[RVclaret]

To be fair what was Nick Pope signed for?

I think Muric needs a patch of consistency before he's going to win over the fan base. He's very good with his feet and last night for example I thought he had a decent game especially the 1 on 1 vs Cambell. He either punched or collected a lot more too which I thought also looked promising. The other side to that is he's probably already used up his quota for errors. I don't expect any keeper we sign in the next 50 years to be as good as Heaton or Pope but I would hope that we can find keepers who perform as consistently and with as few mistakes.

Brian Jensen gets hung drawn and quartered on here for not being a consistent performer, but he was also a match winner on his day in terms of shot stopping. Muric hasn't shown much to suggest he can be a match winner in that respect, but he certainly contributes to attacking/possession based moves with his distribution at the back. Ultimately though, like Jensen, unless he can eradicate the errors and perform consistently he is never going to win over the majority of the fan base imo.

Btw that doesn't mean I don't rate him but that's just how I see the situation.

What are all these errors he’s made that have filled his quota as you say?

[boatshed bill]

it would be easy to conclude from this thread that Pope's career with us was error free.
Of course it was not, he made his share.

[Devils_Advocate]

Burnley fans comparing Muric against Pope in their criticism of him is akin to England fans comparing Pope to Pickford in their criticism of Pope.

Just because Muric isnt a patch on Pope for Burnley and Pope isnt a patch on Pickford for England does not mean Muric and Pope aren't good goalkeepers at their respective levels

[Rileybobs]

Can’t believe people thought he had a very good game last night. I thought he came off his line totally unnecessarily when Campbell took a bad touch and went out wide, a poor finish saved his blushes. He spooned a pass straight to an opponent 25 yards from goal in the middle of the pitch. He spilled a routine save which fortunately was swept up by THB. He fell over again at one point because his brain often doesn’t know what his feet are doing. And then he let in another very soft goal without leaving the ground.

801F6D0E-E26D-4540-A1E5-CBEB12DF8562.jpeg (260.99 KiB) Viewed 1541 times

I don’t like to have a go at our players but some of you need to be a bit more honest with yourself because with decent goalkeeping we would have picked up 4 more points in the last 5 days.

[NoFixedAbode_Claret]

Muric is trending well in that he avoided any potential drama in a game for (maybe) the first time this season. It has been coming.

He had a very good game last night. Agree he was feet planted for the goal. Same as Sunday really, but he would not have saved either (probably).

He is growing on me and could get better. Cut out the daft stuff and he will be fine. Maybe a lot better than fine.

[RVclaret]

Can’t believe people thought he had a very good game last night. I thought he came off his line totally unnecessarily when Campbell took a bad touch and went out wide, a poor finish saved his blushes. He spooned a pass straight to an opponent 25 yards from goal in the middle of the pitch. He spilled a routine save which fortunately was swept up by THB. He fell over again at one point because his brain often doesn’t know what his feet are doing. And then he let in another very soft goal without leaving the ground.

801F6D0E-E26D-4540-A1E5-CBEB12DF8562.jpeg

I don’t like to have a go at our players but some of you need to be a bit more honest with yourself because with decent goalkeeping we would have picked up 4 more points in the last 5 days.

Blaming him for making a great save on Campbell and for the two goals.

I respect other peoples opinions till you see stuff like 'but some of you need to be a bit more honest with yourself' which is just patronising bs.

[boyyanno]

What are all these errors he’s made that have filled his quota as you say?

Well we've played what, 12 games. Muric has made at least 2 errors that have resulted in goals, vs Blackpool and the one he slipped for a few weeks ago. 2 mistakes in 12 is not good and they are just the glaring ones. He has made some poor passes that have gone to the opposition too but they didnt capitalise.

As I've said above I feel he's going to need a consistent patch before he wins fans over fully. Is there anything controversial about that?

[Rileybobs]

Blaming him for making a great save on Campbell and for the two goals.

I respect other peoples opinions till you see stuff like 'but some of you need to be a bit more honest with yourself' which is just patronising bs.

Now now, no need to feel patronised

I didn’t blame him for making any saves. I said he shouldn’t have come out of his goal for Campbell’s chance. Yes, he saved it, but that’s not my point. By coming out of his goal he presented Campbell with a better opportunity to score. The other save was a simple one to collect which he spilled into a dangerous area, only to be cleared by THB. Now the fact that you’ve invented the idea that I’ve blamed him for making two saves goes to prove my point.

I just can’t see how anyone can conclude that Muric had a ‘very good game’ last night and my previous post explains why. It smacks of someone taking an entrenched position on a player and sticking with it despite the evidence suggesting otherwise. It would be like Ian McL claiming that Barnes is having a very good season.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I thought he reacted to the poor touch and did well to come out. Forced Campbell into making a quick decision which he saved.

[RVclaret]

Well we've played what, 12 games. Muric has made at least 2 errors that have resulted in goals, vs Blackpool and the one he slipped for a few weeks ago. 2 mistakes in 12 is not good and they are just the glaring ones. He has made some poor passes that have gone to the opposition too but they didnt capitalise.

As I've said above I feel he's going to need a consistent patch before he wins fans over fully. Is there anything controversial about that?

So a slip is an error? Pretty harsh. As for playing out from the back errors, it’s not a shock horror a brand new team playing a brand new style makes the odd mistake. Chelsea’s keeper did it lately against Leeds, but even worse! The Blackpool one was partly Cullen as well. Good thing is that since then he’s learnt (isn’t that a key part of players development / value building with us?) and hasn’t got into that situation again.

If you look at Benson’s goal against Bristol and Roberts goal last night, both are really poor goalkeeping on their part. I wouldn’t say anything you’ve highlighted is anywhere near as bad. That Blackpool game he also saved our skin on more than one occasion with some excellent saves.

Now now, no need to feel patronised

I didn’t blame him for making any saves. I said he shouldn’t have come out of his goal for Campbell’s chance. Yes, he saved it, but that’s not my point. By coming out of his goal he presented Campbell with a better opportunity to score. The other save was a simple one to collect which he spilled into a dangerous area, only to be cleared by THB. Now the fact that you’ve invented the idea that I’ve blamed him for making two saves goes to prove my point.

I just can’t see how anyone can conclude that Muric had a ‘very good game’ last night and my previous post explains why. It smacks of someone taking an entrenched position on a player and sticking with it despite the evidence suggesting otherwise. It would be like Ian McL claiming that Barnes is having a very good season.

I thought the save and angle he created on Campbell was very good, stood tall and forced him to think quick which led to a poor shot. Other than that, he was far more commanding of his area on several occasions (a criticism I’ve had in previous matches) and distribution was on point as ever. I would say he had a decent game and don’t think it’s anything like the Barnes 20 goals thing.

[Rileybobs]

I thought the save and angle he created on Campbell was very good, stood tall and forced him to think quick which led to a poor shot. Other than that, he was far more commanding of his area on several occasions (a criticism I’ve had in previous matches) and distribution was on point as ever. I would say he had a decent game and don’t think it’s anything like the Barnes 20 goals thing.

From my vantage point Campbell was going well wide and a bad decision from Muric presented him with a good chance. Take a look at this and tell me I’m wrong.

0E909A1F-C6EA-457E-B28E-890666C9AF26.jpeg (218.58 KiB) Viewed 1436 times

As for your other claims, I only recall two other incidents where he was able to demonstrate his command of the box, one was a cross that he collected well, the other was another rush of blood to the head which caused him to panic, backpeddle and fall over. Pretty sure he injured himself in the process.

I just think some people have made bold claims about him and are willing to ignore what is quite clear to see in order to be right. I, on the other hand, have remained open-minded about Muric so I’m able to remain objective about fairly obvious things that I’ve demonstrated above whilst not being worried about losing face.

[boatshed bill]

Now now, no need to feel patronised

Is it possible to make a more patronising comment?

[RVclaret]

From my vantage point Campbell was going well wide and a bad decision from Muric presented him with a good chance. Take a look at this and tell me I’m wrong.

0E909A1F-C6EA-457E-B28E-890666C9AF26.jpeg

As for your other claims, I only recall two other incidents where he was able to demonstrate his command of the box, one was a cross that he collected well, the other was another rush of blood to the head which caused him to panic, backpeddle and fall over. Pretty sure he injured himself in the process.

I just think some people have made bold claims about him and are willing to ignore what is quite clear to see in order to be right. I, on the other hand, have remained open-minded about Muric so I’m able to remain objective about fairly obvious things that I’ve demonstrated above whilst not being worried about losing face.

Not sure a still image is best, on the highlights I saw Campbell was closing in at pace, well ahead of Roberts, and could have taken it more towards goal.

I think you are missing another solid punch he made, though I can’t remember which half it was, but I thought, yeah well done.

I’m happy to criticise where there are genuine errors or poor keeping (though I must add its almost expected of a young keeper from time to time) but I find some of the criticism (eg the very title of this thread) equally ridiculous.

[Rileybobs]

Not sure a still image is best, on the highlights I saw Campbell was closing in at pace, well ahead of Roberts, and could have taken it more towards goal.

I think you are missing another solid punch he made, though I can’t remember which half it was, but I thought, yeah well done.

I’m happy to criticise where there are genuine errors or poor keeping (though I must add its almost expected of a young keeper from time to time) but I find some of the criticism (eg the very title of this thread) equally ridiculous.

I may well be, I think he did punch one from under his bar. And yes I agree, the thread title is ridiculous. Muric is a youngish keeper finding his way in a new league. But that doesn’t mean we should describe a relatively poor performance as very good. I sure as hell bet (and hope) that Muric is able to be critical of his own performances.

I’ll stand by my opinion that he should have saved the last two goals we conceded, and the timing and ramifications of them has left me frustrated.

[boatshed bill]

I may well be, I think he did punch one from under his bar. And yes I agree, the thread title is ridiculous. Muric is a youngish keeper finding his way in a new league. But that doesn’t mean we should describe a relatively poor performance as very good. I sure as hell bet (and hope) that Muric is able to be critical of his own performances.

I’ll stand by my opinion that he should have saved the last two goals we conceded, and the timing and ramifications of them has left me frustrated.

I'll give you one out of the two

[boyyanno]

So a slip is an error? Pretty harsh. As for playing out from the back errors, it’s not a shock horror a brand new team playing a brand new style makes the odd mistake. Chelsea’s keeper did it lately against Leeds, but even worse! The Blackpool one was partly Cullen as well. Good thing is that since then he’s learnt (isn’t that a key part of players development / value building with us?) and hasn’t got into that situation again.

If you look at Benson’s goal against Bristol and Roberts goal last night, both are really poor goalkeeping on their part. I wouldn’t say anything you’ve highlighted is anywhere near as bad. That Blackpool game he also saved our skin on more than one occasion with some excellent saves.


I thought the save and angle he created on Campbell was very good, stood tall and forced him to think quick which led to a poor shot. Other than that, he was far more commanding of his area on several occasions (a criticism I’ve had in previous matches) and distribution was on point as ever. I would say he had a decent game and don’t think it’s anything like the Barnes 20 goals thing.

Highlighting other poor goalkeepers and/or teams that have given away goals at the back does not change the point I've made. Over a season at his current average he would give nearly 8 goals away. Therefore I stick to my original statement- he needs to find consistency to win over fans. He's not been consistent so far and if you think he has then I have to assume you think him giving 8 goals a season away would be okay? I'm sure you wouldn't actually think that, which means I don't actually see what you're trying to argue with me about?

[RVclaret]

Highlighting other poor goalkeepers and/or teams that have given away goals at the back does not change the point I've made. Over a season at his current average he would give nearly 8 goals away. Therefore I stick to my original statement- he needs to find consistency to win over fans. He's not been consistent so far and if you think he has then I have to assume you think him giving 8 goals a season away would be okay? I'm sure you wouldn't actually think that, which means I don't actually see what you're trying to argue with me about?

I personally don’t think a slip (the PNE goal) is an error and the Blackpool one (which was 50/50 with Cullen anyway) he’s already learned from. So no I’m not getting anywhere near your 8 goals given away.

I may well be, I think he did punch one from under his bar. And yes I agree, the thread title is ridiculous. Muric is a youngish keeper finding his way in a new league. But that doesn’t mean we should describe a relatively poor performance as very good. I sure as hell bet (and hope) that Muric is able to be critical of his own performances.

I’ll stand by my opinion that he should have saved the last two goals we conceded, and the timing and ramifications of them has left me frustrated.

Fair enough. I thought it was a good/decent performance from him though and judging off the player ratings thread, so did the majority. As for the goals, I think we’ve been spoiled by our two recent outstanding shot stoppers who both may have saved them, I’d say. Basically either one would be a ‘world class save’ in my opinion but I also wouldn’t say he’s ‘at fault’ for not stopping them.

[Rileybobs]

Fair enough. I thought it was a good/decent performance from him though and judging off the player ratings thread, so did the majority. As for the goals, I think we’ve been spoiled by our two recent outstanding shot stoppers who both may have saved them, I’d say. Basically either one would be a ‘world class save’ in my opinion but I also wouldn’t say he’s ‘at fault’ for not stopping them.

I feel certain Pope would have saved both comfortably, but comparisons with Pope are pointless because we know Muric is not as good as Pope and no one should expect him to be. But I would expect any first choice goalkeeper at a side challenging for promotion to save those shots. And it’s not just failing to save the shots which is a concern, but the poor effort to try and keep them out.

[boyyanno]

I personally don’t think a slip (the PNE goal) is an error and the Blackpool one (which was 50/50 with Cullen anyway) he’s already learned from. So no I’m not getting anywhere near your 8 goals given away.


Fair enough. I thought it was a good/decent performance from him though and judging off the player ratings thread, so did the majority. As for the goals, I think we’ve been spoiled by our two recent outstanding shot stoppers who both may have saved them, I’d say. Basically either one would be a ‘world class save’ in my opinion but I also wouldn’t say he’s ‘at fault’ for not stopping them.

If you don't think Muric has made 2 errors this season then thanks for ensuring I wont take any notice of what you say in future.

[RVclaret]

If you don't think Muric has made 2 errors this season then thanks for ensuring I wont take any notice of what you say in future.

You mentioned two in particular which I have been responding to.

[Lowbankclaret]

Absolutely spot on KRBFC.

Honestly cannot fathom why people say “Pope would’ve saved that”. Of course he would because Pope is a top 5 Prem Keeper, one of the best in the world, is 7 years older than Muric and 100s of games more experienced.

As you say, Cornet scores or does better with the 1 v 1 and no thread on that.

So if we go up it will be a 200 million game in the play offs. Seems stupid to sell an asset that could gain up 200 million for 10 million .
Not good business sense.

[boatshed bill]

So if we go up it will be a 200 million game in the play offs. Seems stupid to sell an asset that could gain up 200 million for 10 million .
Not good business sense.

£100m for going up and about the same in parachute payments on relegation?

[NewClaret]

So if we go up it will be a 200 million game in the play offs. Seems stupid to sell an asset that could gain up 200 million for 10 million .
Not good business sense.

Do agree with this & I’m a bit surprised we sold so many players. It makes me wonder whether AP watches games like last night & thinks “we’d have won 3-0 with Pope and Cornet”.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Can’t believe people thought he had a very good game last night. I thought he came off his line totally unnecessarily when Campbell took a bad touch and went out wide, a poor finish saved his blushes. He spooned a pass straight to an opponent 25 yards from goal in the middle of the pitch. He spilled a routine save which fortunately was swept up by THB. He fell over again at one point because his brain often doesn’t know what his feet are doing. And then he let in another very soft goal without leaving the ground.

801F6D0E-E26D-4540-A1E5-CBEB12DF8562.jpeg

I don’t like to have a go at our players but some of you need to be a bit more honest with yourself because with decent goalkeeping we would have picked up 4 more points in the last 5 days.

He looked off balance falling backwards and his feet were all wrong, Pope would have probably caught it, it is so close to his head it is unreal.

[NewClaret]

From my vantage point Campbell was going well wide and a bad decision from Muric presented him with a good chance. Take a look at this and tell me I’m wrong.

0E909A1F-C6EA-457E-B28E-890666C9AF26.jpeg

As for your other claims, I only recall two other incidents where he was able to demonstrate his command of the box, one was a cross that he collected well, the other was another rush of blood to the head which caused him to panic, backpeddle and fall over. Pretty sure he injured himself in the process.

I just think some people have made bold claims about him and are willing to ignore what is quite clear to see in order to be right. I, on the other hand, have remained open-minded about Muric so I’m able to remain objective about fairly obvious things that I’ve demonstrated above whilst not being worried about losing face.

I thought the Campbell save was a good one. I thought Campbell was going to cut in and run on goal but Muric narrowed the angle well and forced the early shot.

The stills for the goal look horrific but when you watch it real time it was a bullet header that was crossed and flew past him in a split second. Had he been a yard back on his line he probably makes and easy save. If another keeper lets this in though, I don’t look twice at him.

[Rileybobs]

I thought the Campbell save was a good one. I thought Campbell was going to cut in and run on goal but Muric narrowed the angle well and forced the early shot.

The stills for the goal look horrific but when you watch it real time it was a bullet header that was crossed and flew past him in a split second. Had he been a yard back on his line he probably makes and easy save. If another keeper lets this in though, I don’t look twice at him.

It looked as bad in real time and I have the same angle as the still photo.

[ClaretPete001]

Pete you put together a post saying that you didn’t think we were good enough based on our results against the top 8 teams including an argument around their current league position.
I simply pointed out that logic was somewhat flawed as when we played a number of these teams they were in the top 8.

You are of course perfectly entitled to your opinion that you do not believe we are good enough to be promoted this year. Personally I think it’s too early to judge not only ourselves as a team (for a number of reasons including new system, new coach, new players, injuries etc) but also too soon to judge a number of other teams in the division too.

A couple of weeks ago some posters were saying that Sheffield United were running away with the league and last night they were beaten by QPR. Chris Willock for QPR is regarded by a number of commentators as the best young talent in the league. He scored the goal to beat Sheffield United and then went off with a hamstring injury after that. Clubs like QPR do not have the strength in depth in their squads or the financial resources we do. Sunderland are another club who have started the season pretty well but are absolutely skint. They lost the manager that had got them promoted to Stoke purely because they could not afford to give him a contract of any length and as a club have spent virtually zero on players after going up.

Point being I honestly don’t think we will see which teams are looking likely for top 6 until after Christmas or even later this season with the World Cup break. But I do think Burnley are better placed than a lot of clubs to cope with injuries, suspensions and also spend some pretty serious money (for this division relatively at least) in the January transfer window.

Hmm you see this is the problem. I don't think at any point I argued we are not good enough to go up this season. At least not on this thread..

I argued, and this is important, that a quarter of a season is long enough to get some feel for the stronger teams in the division and statistically if you haven't played any of the top 8 at this point you likely haven't played the better teams.

We play most of the top 7 in a few weeks from the 22nd of October to the 10th of December and I guess at that point we will have played a representative sample regardless of positions in the league. So, in terms of this debate it will be settled before Xmas. I won't be able to argue we haven't played the better teams in the division because we will have played an equal distribution throughout it.

Any sooner than now and we do not have a meaningful sample; any later, and we would have a representative sample that would render the point meaningless.

Even by my very high standards that is an impeccably logical argument. And I'll have to end it there, I have several episodes of the Big Bang Theory to catch up on and everyone else wants to talk about goalkeepers.

[Lowbankclaret]

£100m for going up and about the same in parachute payments on relegation?

Think it’s way
More now, you may need to fact check

[Elizabeth]

As someone who has been very critical of Muric in the early games I am starting to change my mind a bit. To criticise him for the early save would normally make me think it is agenda driven but the poster is known for mischief making so I'll ignore it.

Muric is nowhere near the real deal but in my opinion he is improving