Ban the "Usual Suspects"

[Taffy on the wing]

Just kick em out. They ruin just about every thread on here and I’m coming here less and less nowadays as a result.

Aww.... and you've been here such a long time. We'll miss you when you're gonny.

[nil_desperandum]

This place should completely ban politics,

If only it were so simple.
Just how is that possible when politics overlaps so frequently with many aspects of our sport. our town and our team?
FIFA being but one obvious example, and football finance.

[Guller Bull]

I hate politics and feel that it and religion are subjects that divide rather than include. However it is difficult to avoid politics as it is intrinsic in most everything that we do. Shouldn't be but is.

Politics with a capital P should be about serving the people it governs rather than ruling and bullying. Unfortunately for all our major parties they are groomed to be professional politicians once they get good at serving people at local level. Whisked away and become Icons rather that servants. Follow the code and soak up the adulation/hatred of a country divided.

However what you can do on here to avoid being part of the vitriol is just accept that peoples views differ and resist the temptation to Change/ Castigate or just be downright Snidey to others. Scoring intelligence points wont change anothers view Let people be who they want and stop trying to impose your views on others.

[CoolClaret]

I simply cannot believe there are so many people on here who have such blinkered views on a complex subject . So once again we are told that we cannot disagree ? Or told if we do that we are stupid ? I don’t live in uk so meet lots of people from all over the world and I can tell you that the accepted narrative in uk is not agreed with outside western nations

There’s nothing blinkered about it.

One country decided to invade another country and is shooting missiles indiscriminately and levelling cities.

Not to mention the murdering, raping & pillaging that has been well documented.

[Lancasterclaret]

Yes nice to hear a balanced view once again . (Not really)

Nine posts

Joined Nov this year, less than a month

[fatboy47]

I'm no fan of Putin, and hope he is seen off as a result of his current adventures in Ukraine.

But there's a touching naivety about that particular thread that puts me in mind of the old cowboy films. Two sides...the good guys and the bad guys..no middle ground. And, to a man, the audience roots for the guys in the white hats...and they always won in the end, beating the evil redskins.

History, even that written by the winners, tends to teach that actuality tends to be a wee bit more complex. For that reason I'm not a fan of unbalanced debate or one-sided information sharing.

Whilst Lancs stresses the dangers of anyone being swayed by the Kremlins propaganda, I'd suggest that we have such limited exposure to it that this isn't a significant issue.

[Lancasterclaret]

I'm no fan of Putin, and hope he is seen off as a result of his current adventures in Ukraine.

But there's a touching naivety about that particular thread that puts me in mind of the old cowboy films. Two sides...the good guys and the bad guys..no middle ground. And, to a man, the audience roots for the guys in the white hats...and they always won in the end, beating the evil redskins.

History, even that written by the winners, tends to teach that actuality tends to be a wee bit more complex. For that reason I'm not a fan of unbalanced debate or one-sided information sharing.

Whilst Lancs stresses the dangers of anyone being swayed by the Kremlins propaganda, I'd suggest that we have such limited exposure to it that this isn't a significant issue.

I think it depends on what social media outlets and sources you use fatboy to be fair

There is a huge amount of pro-Russian propaganda out there, and its shared and retweeted (or whatever the relevant social media equivalent is to tweeting!) so that it pops up all the time. Some of it looks legit (most of it is clearly the worst photoshop jobs imaginable) and a lot of it is stuff that actually happens, but happened some years ago and in a different country. That is almost impossible to spot unless you are really do know your stuff about how to search for old pics, geo locating and the differences between a Russian T-72 and a Armenian T-72 (for example)

Without reopening old political discussions, we've seen how easy it is to get people to believe what they want to believe so I don't think you can dismiss it

[Colburn_Claret]

I'm no fan of Putin, and hope he is seen off as a result of his current adventures in Ukraine.

But there's a touching naivety about that particular thread that puts me in mind of the old cowboy films. Two sides...the good guys and the bad guys..no middle ground. And, to a man, the audience roots for the guys in the white hats...and they always won in the end, beating the evil redskins.

History, even that written by the winners, tends to teach that actuality tends to be a wee bit more complex. For that reason I'm not a fan of unbalanced debate or one-sided information sharing.

Whilst Lancs stresses the dangers of anyone being swayed by the Kremlins propaganda, I'd suggest that we have such limited exposure to it that this isn't a significant issue.

If you had taken the time to watch any of the tv 'debates' on Russian TV, you would find it impossible to find any kind of empathy for a rabid nation, determined to wipe out Ukraine, and at any cost.
There are rules to war, as set out by the Geneva convention, there are actions and targets deemed unacceptable even illegal. The Russians not only cross those lines, they boast about it on TV, and urge the Kremlin to get even nastier.

People like yourself keep saying there's 2 sides to every argument, whilst deliberately failing to point out your view from the other side. Which supports the theory you are just trying to wind people up and derail an important topic.

Personally, I would love to hear this theory , that hear from all around this 'world' you travel in, that supports Putin, in any way.

[AfloatinClaret]

. .. we've seen how easy it is to get people to believe what they want to believe so I don't think you can dismiss it

Was it ever different? I suspect that the overwhelming majority of our species 'believe' what confirms their preconceived opinions
I have a couple of Facebook friends with whom I disagree on just about everything but I would never unfriend them (and indeed have told them so) specifically because their opinions oblige me to regularly reassess and most often reconfirm my own; it's scary when I can't

[Lancasterclaret]

If you had taken the time to watch any of the tv 'debates' on Russian TV, you would find it impossible to find any kind of empathy for a rabid nation, determined to wipe out Ukraine, and at any cost.
There are rules to war, as set out by the Geneva convention, there are actions and targets deemed unacceptable even illegal. The Russians not only cross those lines, they boast about it on TV, and urge the Kremlin to get even nastier.

People like yourself keep saying there's 2 sides to every argument, whilst deliberately failing to point out your view from the other side. Which supports the theory you are just trying to wind people up and derail an important topic.

Personally, I would love to hear this theory , that hear from all around this 'world' you travel in, that supports Putin, in any way.

Its not that hard to be honest Colburn

If you aren't in the West, then you see the double standards a mile off (yes, its not as simple as that, but it you want to believe it, then you will)

The only reason that Putin was allowed to get away with what he did in Syria for example was because the West were terrified by Afghanistan and Iraq and didn't want to get involved, despite knowing full well if they didn't then the regional powers in the area would take advantage (and they have, to the detriment of Syrians everywhere)

You could also go a bit deeper, and people back Russia because they think its still what it was fifty years ago (on the left) or because they are seen to be strong against more liberal values (on the right)

Still a huge minority, but they are there

tbf, I don't think anyone who isn't a troll who is against the thread is any of the above, they are just worried about what happens if this gets worse, and I think we all worry about that!

[Anonymous Claret]

Was it ever different? I suspect that the overwhelming majority of our species 'believe' what confirms their preconceived opinions
I have a couple of Facebook friends with whom I disagree on just about everything but I would never unfriend them (and indeed have told them so) specifically because their opinions oblige me to regularly reassess and most often reconfirm my own; it's scary when I can't

I never consider defriending anyone because they have a differing opinion to your own unless they abuse you. My opinion of the world has swung 180 degrees in the last 3 years, so everyone's view can change. I remain open minded to the fact that I could be wrong.

[fatboy47]

If you had taken the time to watch any of the tv 'debates' on Russian TV, you would find it impossible to find any kind of empathy for a rabid nation, determined to wipe out Ukraine, and at any cost.
There are rules to war, as set out by the Geneva convention, there are actions and targets deemed unacceptable even illegal. The Russians not only cross those lines, they boast about it on TV, and urge the Kremlin to get even nastier.

People like yourself keep saying there's 2 sides to every argument, whilst deliberately failing to point out your view from the other side. Which supports the theory you are just trying to wind people up and derail an important topic.

Personally, I would love to hear this theory , that hear from all around this 'world' you travel in, that supports Putin, in any way.

Thanks Colburn... I don't think you could have demonstrated my concerns more effectively.

[fidelcastro]

The only poster who really warrants a permanent ban is whichever of Muchacho's alter egos is running amok at any given time.

Everyone else is utterly harmless, no matter how nutty their views might be.

Looks like he's back now as cheapcharlie.

Sad or what?

[Cheapcharlie]

I simply cannot believe there are so many people on here who have such blinkered views on a complex subject . So once again we are told that we cannot disagree ? Or told if we do that we are stupid ? I don’t live in uk so meet lots of people from all over the world and I can tell you that the accepted narrative in uk is not agreed with outside western nations

Tripe to say that another viewpoint should be listened to ? You just reinforced my points

[Cheapcharlie]

Its not that hard to be honest Colburn

If you aren't in the West, then you see the double standards a mile off (yes, its not as simple as that, but it you want to believe it, then you will)

The only reason that Putin was allowed to get away with what he did in Syria for example was because the West were terrified by Afghanistan and Iraq and didn't want to get involved, despite knowing full well if they didn't then the regional powers in the area would take advantage (and they have, to the detriment of Syrians everywhere)

You could also go a bit deeper, and people back Russia because they think its still what it was fifty years ago (on the left) or because they are seen to be strong against more liberal values (on the right)

Still a huge minority, but they are there

tbf, I don't think anyone who isn't a troll who is against the thread is any of the above, they are just worried about what happens if this gets worse, and I think we all worry about that!

The quality of reasoned debate on here is pathetic . One side only is allowed and and if you suggest a balanced view you are pilloried. Peace not likely behaving like this .

[Tribesmen]

One thing i am sure of is that there are millions of good honest Russians who would be sent to death just for saying so .

[Colburn_Claret]

Thanks Colburn... I don't think you could have demonstrated my concerns more effectively.

I didn't want your concerns, just your 'unbiased' opinion on what the situation is, as you see it.
If we are all blinkered, then open our eyes with some knowledge we've missed.

[jos]

I don’t live in uk so meet lots of people from all over the world and I can tell you that the accepted narrative in uk is not agreed with outside western nations

I’m always willing to listen to contrary viewpoints however it’s not just western nations.

Source :- https://www.axios.com/2022/03/02/united ... russia-141

141 countries voted in favor of a UN General Assembly resolution "deploring" Russia's aggression against Ukraine and demanding the immediate and complete withdrawal of all Russian forces from Ukrainian territory.

Why it matters: The resolution is non-binding, but reflects Russia's historic isolation on the world stage just one week into its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

The full UNGA vote came after Russia vetoed a similar resolution in the 15-member UN Security Council.
Four countries joined Russia in voting against the resolution — Belarus, North Korea, Eritrea and Syria — while 35 abstained.
Between the lines: Serbia, which has close historical ties with Russia, surprised many observers by voting in favor of the resolution.

The United Arab Emirates and Israel, two U.S. security partners that have been criticized for declined to speak out against Russia's aggression, also chose to vote for the resolution.
India, however, abstained. The world's largest democracy has longstanding military ties with Russia from the Soviet era, causing headaches for the U.S. as it seeks to integrate India into an alliance to counter China in the Indo-Pacific.
What they're saying: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky praised the outcome of the vote, tweeting, "I’m grateful to everyone & every state that voted in favor. You have chosen the right side of history."

The results "convincingly show that a global anti-Putin coalition has been formed and is functioning. The world is with us. The truth is on our side," he added.

[fidelcastro]

Haven’t a clue what you mean but I’m guessing you just can’t handle debate so sling cheap shots. Well done . Mummy must be proud

Yeah, I'm so scared of debate

[fatboy47]

I didn't want your concerns, just your 'unbiased' opinion on what the situation is, as you see it.
If we are all blinkered, then open our eyes with some knowledge we've missed.

I've already indicated that I've no truck with expansionist brutal regimes from Russia or any other nation.

I've also no doubt that the Russian populace have been comprehensively brainwashed, and to a far greater degree than any Western democracies on this occasion.

What I oppose is the blinkered view that this is somehow just a Russian thing, and that somehow the "west" are historically morally superior.

I'm sure our own Victorian proles will have been cheering our brave British boys as they rampaged around the planet subjugating and plundering any banana republics that didn't offer too much resistance....just as we cheered when John Wayne gunned down those pesky Indians. I'm sure lots of Viking mums were proud of their lads who raped and plundered their way round Britain too. No doubt brainwashing techniques were simpler in those times but nonetheless equally effective.

I'm not looking to argue, but just suggesting that seeing ourselves always as the good guys in the white hats isn't what I call a balanced view. We'll certainly be pulling a few stunts in the current show, and there'll almost surely have been atrocities committed by all sides. To think otherwise is a bit naive imo.

I think your response results from a simplistic desire to see things entirely in black and white. But I respect your views if not their fairly hostile presentation.



MOD: THREAD LOCKED: some bans issued, some posters warned, some messages deleted and a whole raft of people weighing onto further arguments. Thank you to the two people who reported posts but to the rest of you, you’re making this beyond ridiculous now. Please do not reply to people on the wind-up: report them!