The Grand National

[yTib]

pigs and sheep die and end up on my table. i'm not sure what makes horses so bloody special.

i've eaten horse as well in france. yummy.

i wonder if all of these bleeding hearts draw the line between food and sport. what about you colburn?

[SocialistClaret]

People do realise that race horses die in flat racing don’t they?

At equal rates?

[Rileybobs]

People do realise that race horses die in flat racing don’t they?

It’s around 6-7 times more likely that a horse will die in a jumps race.

[SocialistClaret]

pigs and sheep die and end up on my table. i'm not sure what makes horses so bloody special.

i've eaten horse as well in france. yummy.

i wonder if all of these bleeding hearts draw the line between food and sport. what about you colburn?

I'm sure you understand we also don't want animals abused in the process of giving us food.

[arise_sir_charge]

At equal rates?

Irrelevant.

[yTib]

I'm sure you understand we also don't want animals abused in the process of giving us food.

ha. a bolt in the brain isn't abuse??

the hypocrisy around animal 'welfare' never fails to amuse me.

[arise_sir_charge]

It’s around 6-7 times more likely that a horse will die in a jumps race.

So, you either want to protect race horses or you don’t.

[SocialistClaret]

Irrelevant.

This is where football clubs are going wrong. Managers are getting fired for not scoring league points at the same rate as managers of other clubs but actually, the rate at which points are scored is "irrelevant".

I'm off to explain this to Southampton fans. They're going to be relieved.

[Billy Balfour]

Horsemeat is usually quite tough because of the age of the animal.This is why it ended up being put through the grinder and passed off as beef burgers.

[SocialistClaret]

So, you either want to protect race horses or you don’t.

I'm so in love with this point of view. NHS bosses should take this view when trying to approve treatments that only reduce the mortality of an illness but doesn't eliminate it entirely.

[Rileybobs]

So, you either want to protect race horses or you don’t.

This doesn’t really make sense. There is a scenario where a certain level of risk may be deemed acceptable. For example, we accept that there will be more fatalities on our motorways with a 70mph speed limit than if it was 40mph.

[arise_sir_charge]

This is where football clubs are going wrong. Managers are getting fired for not scoring league points at the same rate as managers of other clubs but actually, the rate at which points are scored is "irrelevant".

I'm off to explain this to Southampton fans. They're going to be relieved.

Complete clown.

[Colburn_Claret]

Where to start with this…

Nobody is saying stop breeding horses so that they become extinct. You know that. This is a straw man.

Jockeys, boxers and F1 drivers aren’t forced to do what they do. I can’t actually believe you’re making this comparison.

So the activists don’t care about the horses wants…but you do?

Horses aren't forced to do it, they are bred to do it, it's what they like to do. If you stop thoroughbreds from racing, you are making them pointless. As I've already said they don't make good pets, they are highly strung animals.

All dogs originate from the wolf. Mankind has bred them into the many different breeds of today. Bred to fulfil a need. Sheepdogs and G Shepherds to protect the sheep. Whippets and Greyhounds for speed. Spaniels for fetching. Terriers for clearing rodents. The list is endless. The difference is dogs can be a pet, they can be a companion. Horses can't.

Flat racing is fine, in its place, and horses can still die racing on the flat, or training for the flat.in every walk of life , or nature, there are risks. I don't see how wiping out hundreds of years of breeding is justified to satisfy the opinion of a small percentage of the population, and a percentage that doesn't really appreciate or understand this argument from the pov of the horse. They just presume they know better.

[yTib]

Horsemeat is usually quite tough because of the age of the animal.This is why it ended up being put through the grinder and passed off as beef burgers.

had a steak of it and it was grand.

i suppose it depends on le boucherie de qualité.

[Rileybobs]

Horses aren't forced to do it, they are bred to do it, it's what they like to do. If you stop thoroughbreds from racing, you are making them pointless. As I've already said they don't make good pets, they are highly strung animals.

All dogs originate from the wolf. Mankind has bred them into the many different breeds of today. Bred to fulfil a need. Sheepdogs and G Shepherds to protect the sheep. Whippets and Greyhounds for speed. Spaniels for fetching. Terriers for clearing rodents. The list is endless. The difference is dogs can be a pet, they can be a companion. Horses can't.

Flat racing is fine, in its place, and horses can still die racing on the flat, or training for the flat.in every walk of life , or nature, there are risks. I don't see how wiping out hundreds of years of breeding is justified to satisfy the opinion of a small percentage of the population, and a percentage that doesn't really appreciate or understand this argument from the pov of the horse. They just presume they know better.

This can’t be serious??

Horses aren’t forced to race? Really?

Horses can’t be pets? Really?

The protesters don’t understand the argument from the pov of the horse and presume they know better? The pov of the horse? Really?

[yTib]

Horses aren't forced to do it, they are bred to do it, it's what they like to do. If you stop thoroughbreds from racing, you are making them pointless. As I've already said they don't make good pets, they are highly strung animals.

god. it's like shouting at the sun.

NO HORSE RACING - NO RACE HORSES.

it must be like being blind.

[SocialistClaret]

ha. a bolt in the brain isn't abuse??

the hypocrisy around animal 'welfare' never fails to amuse me.

I bet you're one of those people who complain about protesters being a bunch of uncompromising absolutists, but when faced with someone who clearly thinks that while animals shouldn't suffer unnecessary abuse in their lives they are still a necessary source of food, you will with a straight face accuse me of hypocrisy for not being an uncompromising absolutist when it comes to the existence of that food source.

[Swizzlestick]

What a thread.

[yTib]

I bet you're one of those people who complain about protesters being a bunch of uncompromising absolutists, but when faced with someone who clearly thinks that while animals shouldn't suffer unnecessary abuse in their lives they are still a necessary source of food, you will with a straight face accuse me of hypocrisy for not being an uncompromising absolutist when it comes to the existence of that food source.

well don't bet too much cos i'm not.

[SocialistClaret]

well don't bet too much cos i'm not.

Very well then, good sir. I'm sure it was a mere misunderstanding.

[yTib]

any animals being an essential source of food is a myth.

a vegetarian diet would feed far more people.

meat is a luxury and anyone who thinks it's essential is kidding themselves.

the massive slab of sirloin my mum served up on easter day is a testament to just how much i enjoy not being a sanctimonious turd.

[yTib]

oh and if meat is a luxury then so is sport. i see no real distinction.

in the not too distant future both will be replaced with technology anyway.

[SocialistClaret]

any animals being an essential source of food is a myth.

a vegetarian diet would feed far more people.

meat is a luxury and anyone who thinks it's essential is kidding themselves.

the massive slab of sirloin my mum served up on easter day is a testament to just how much i enjoy not being a sanctimonious turd.

On an individual basis one can certainly avoid meat. But there's 8 billion people in the world now and it's not practical to feed everyone on low caloric food sources alone. So meat is obviously still essential to feed our population.

However we should try to work to reduce, and eventually remove the need for meat from livestock through sustainable lab-grown meats. Aside from eliminating a lot of animal abuse it'd also eliminate a lot of abuse we inflict on our climate. But that's even further off topic than we've already gotten.

[yTib]

On an individual basis one can certainly avoid meat. But there's 8 billion people in the world now and it's not practical to feed everyone on low caloric food sources alone. So meat is obviously still essential to feed our population.

wrong. if the world adopted a vegetarian lifestyle we could reduce agriculture by about 70%. this is a like for like comparison so we could actually feed far more people.

[Billy Balfour]

They are trying to ban snooker because they don't like oily balls.

[Colburn_Claret]

This can’t be serious??

Horses aren’t forced to race? Really?

Horses can’t be pets? Really?

The protesters don’t understand the argument from the pov of the horse and presume they know better? The pov of the horse? Really?

Really

[yTib]

colburn either you have shyt for brains or you're a comical genius.

i'm afraid i'm leaning towards option 1.

[Lowbankclaret]

From animalaid.org.uk

"Hill Sixteen suffered a broken neck at the first fence in the Grand National race and two horses were taken away in horse ambulances with life threatening injuries. Dark Raven was killed earlier in the afternoon and the fate of another faller, Castle Robin, also earlier in the afternoon, remains unknown. The death of Envoye Special on the first day of the meeting adds to the horrific animal abuse that takes place each year at this appalling event.

Despite the rhetoric from the racing industry and its supporters, that horse welfare is their number one priority, Aintree Racecourse and British racing as a whole, are failing horses. The reality is that 200 horses perish each year on racecourses, the Grand National being the worst of all in taking their lives."

Dene Stansall said, "Jump racing must be banned to prevent the brutal horrors seen today at Aintree and this week, from happening again. Innocent race horses’ lives taken from them in the name of entertainment and gambling. Aintree, the worst of all racecourses, is a disgrace and the Jockey Club and British racing should hang their heads in utter shame at what we have seen over the past three days."

43 humans have died riding horses in the last ten years, just ban horse riding and turn em all into dog food

[yTib]

43 humans have died riding horses in the last ten years, just ban horse riding and turn em all into dog food

the dead jockeys or the horses?

[Lowbankclaret]

Horses aren't forced to do it, they are bred to do it, it's what they like to do. If you stop thoroughbreds from racing, you are making them pointless. As I've already said they don't make good pets, they are highly strung animals.

All dogs originate from the wolf. Mankind has bred them into the many different breeds of today. Bred to fulfil a need. Sheepdogs and G Shepherds to protect the sheep. Whippets and Greyhounds for speed. Spaniels for fetching. Terriers for clearing rodents. The list is endless. The difference is dogs can be a pet, they can be a companion. Horses can't.

Flat racing is fine, in its place, and horses can still die racing on the flat, or training for the flat.in every walk of life , or nature, there are risks. I don't see how wiping out hundreds of years of breeding is justified to satisfy the opinion of a small percentage of the population, and a percentage that doesn't really appreciate or understand this argument from the pov of the horse. They just presume they know better.

Slightly agree and disagree.
My first wife was horse mad and we knew people with horses in training.
She used to ride a horse called Rubinka, came second at best.
She used to wind it up so it ran as fast as it could. Gave her a major buzz.

As a mare, they bred from her.

A stallion they used it at stud.

Gelding, dog food.

Just how it is

[yTib]

lowbank do you eat animals?

[Lowbankclaret]

the dead jockeys or the horses?

Just normal people riding horses, it’s a dangerous pastime.

Behind motorcyclists that are over 300.

Dead bikes are not counted

[dsr]

People do realise that race horses die in flat racing don’t they?

I think some of them don't realise that horses die whether they are raced or not.

If long life is the only objective of the existence of the horse, then we need to invest in horse nursing homes so that those horses that can no longer stand or walk or eat properly, or are in constant pain through illness or injury, can live out their natural life and not be killed as so many domestic animals are.

This campaign isn't about stopping the Grand National, because as soon as perhaps the most dangerous form of exercise for a horse is banned, there will be a new "most dangerous exercise" and they will want that banned instead. This campaign is all about ensuring that humans do not have a good time enjoying their horses. I'm not clear whether what they want is that humans should carry on pampering and feeding and vet-treating the horses but getting no use of them, or if they want horses to be released in the wild to live short, brutish lives before dying, usually slowly, usually of starvation, possibly while being partly eaten alive by predators. It may not be a better life for the average horse, but it would be a life free of human friends, and after all, love of horses takes a distant second place to hatred of humans.

There are horse lovers who dislike the Grand National as well. The difference being they are willing to accept other people's viewpoints and to live and let live. Yes, it's perfectly possible to be in a group of 50,000 people and to be the only one who is right, but what isn't (or shouldn't be) possible is for that person to use his own perceived infallibility to disrupt the lives of the 50,000. If they want racing to be banned, launch a campaign in parliament and see if parliament can be persuaded to their side.