Cardiff Riots

[dsr]

Were they armed, did they have drugs on them, were they escaping from the scene of a major crime? Nothing suggests that's the case.

I suspect those are the sort of questions that can only be answered after they have been caught, not before. It's really not a practical suggestion to say that police can only be allowed to chase people carrying weapons, or carrying drugs, or who have recently committed a major crime.

[AlargeClaret]

It’s somewhat ironic that ELY literally needs razing to the ground . It’s like a 70’s rough council estate but with drugs, e scooters , hoodies , fatties on mobility scooters and fox fleeces etc . Think Burnley Wood in the early 90’s . People riding /nicking bikes etc 100% will be an everyday thing in this hellhole .

[Foshiznik]

You've put it much more eloquently than I did! Totally agree. Benefits are there for a specific purpose - and if there are jobs to done, they should paid/compensated for according to national minimum wage laws. Benefit claimants are not criminals and should not be treated as such.

Chobulous' post is completely fair and is something i maybe didn't take into account quite as much as i should have. However, i do think there is a middle ground. There are jobs to do and people who can do them who are on benefits, so there must be something that can be done to bridge the gap.

In terms of your final point, no where did i relate benefit claimants to criminals. I am fully aware that there are people who claim for many different reasons, including disability, caring responsibilities, those actively jobseeking, PIP, tax credits, etc. and i personally have claimed some sort of state support myself. I also would expect anyone who is able to work and doesn't work through own choice to be paid in line with the wages of someone who would do the job normally. I do fully accept our differing opinions and respect yours though.

[MancunianClaret]

Chobulous' post is completely fair and is something i maybe didn't take into account quite as much as i should have. However, i do think there is a middle ground. There are jobs to do and people who can do them who are on benefits, so there must be something that can be done to bridge the gap.

Oh yes, I'd totally agree with you here - as long as those jobs paid the equivalent of national minimum wage, and weren't used as a means of withholding benefits - then I'd have no problem with it at all personally.

In terms of your final point, no where did i relate benefit claimants to criminals. I am fully aware that there are people who claim for many different reasons, including disability, caring responsibilities, those actively jobseeking, PIP, tax credits, etc. and i personally have claimed some sort of state support myself. I also would expect anyone who is able to work and doesn't work through own choice to be paid in line with the wages of someone who would do the job normally. I do fully accept our differing opinions and respect yours though.

My apologies, I did not mean to insinuate that you equated benefit claimants to criminals. I was just agreeing with the sentiment Chobulous expressed around the equivalence of community service to "enforced" work. I appreciate your responses and also respect your opinion.

[Rick_Muller]

Surely some form of risk assessment comes into the thinking?

Is it safe to chase teenagers riding pillion, neither wearing helmets, through a winding estate at peak traffic time?

Why were they being chased? Were they armed, did they have drugs on them, were they escaping from the scene of a major crime? Nothing suggests that's the case.

So what we have is a police pursuit simply because some kids were being a bit of a nuisance in their own estate.

Is that appropriate?

I see no “chase” here https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1661 ... B35J3yJdwg

[Walton]

I see no “chase” here https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1661 ... B35J3yJdwg

Do police vans always drive that fast, and corner like that, around tight council estates?

[Rick_Muller]

Do police vans always drive that fast, and corner like that, around tight council estates?

if they are persuing criminals then perhaps yes.

It was not a chase though as has been wildly misreported in the press.

Granted there is other footage available where the police van was close to the bike, but it was only a second of footage and I am of the understanding it was way before any harm came to those on the bike, and none of us know the chain of events that led to the incident, so speculation which paints anyone in a bad light should be avoided surely.

[Nori1958]

There was a timeline on sky this morning showing the police van was on a completely different road at the time of the crash. It also showed the bike driving towards the van then turning and driving away, which caused the van to start to follow the bike

[Rowls]

If people want decent public services, then they have to pay for them

If people want low taxes, then they won't have decent public services

Every government we ever have struggles to get the balance, and I don't think its breaking any rules to say that we've not got the balance right at the moment

We currently have the highest tax burden since WWII.

This isn't really a story about tax levels.

[Jamesy]

Surely some form of risk assessment comes into the thinking?

Is it safe to chase teenagers riding pillion, neither wearing helmets, through a winding estate at peak traffic time?

Why were they being chased? Were they armed, did they have drugs on them, were they escaping from the scene of a major crime? Nothing suggests that's the case.

So what we have is a police pursuit simply because some kids were being a bit of a nuisance in their own estate.

Is that appropriate?

Perhaps you need to spend a little time living in this area? Bit of a nuisance? More like constant menaces making other peoples lives a misery. What if they had knocked a mother and child over whilst tearing around on “their” £4,000 electric bike designed for one not two passengers?
Are you saying the police shouldn’t pursue or try and apprehend anyone now on two or four wheels if they are being lawless or demonstrating anti social behaviour?
It was sad indeed that these two were killed but the police didn’t kill them, their own reckless actions did. I am just waiting now for people who knew them to wheel out the usual “cheeky chappy/loveable rogue comments.

[Sproggy]

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[Bordeauxclaret]

The “deep down” bit is quite telling.

[Volvoclaret]

Que lots of crocodile tears and bunches of flowers.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

There was a timeline on sky this morning showing the police van was on a completely different road at the time of the crash. It also showed the bike driving towards the van then turning and driving away, which caused the van to start to follow the bike

That would suggest the lads were trying to invite the police to chase them.

The clip I've watched shows the lads go whizzing down a road.

Eventually a police van comes trundling along with no blue lights on and then it turns up a different road to where the lads were heading.

I know people like to whine about the police, but they didn't appear to do much wrong here.

[Nori1958]

That would suggest the lads were trying to invite the police to chase them.

The clip I've watched shows the lads go whizzing down a road.

Eventually a police van comes trundling along with no blue lights on and then it turns up a different road to where the lads were heading.

I know people like to whine about the police, but they didn't appear to do much wrong here.

I would totally agree with you, though one poster seems to think we should just let these youths go about their illegal activities without any intervention from the police,as they are only causing a bit of a nuisance.....

[GetIntoEm]

Play silly games, win silly prizes.

It's sad that 2 young lads lost their lives, but put it down to bad parenting, poor upbringing and a all round poor start not the police.

[bfcjg]

Perhaps the anti police brigade could post their mobile numbers so we can ring them to come around and stop the anti social scumbags plaguing our society.

[tarkys_ears]

Play silly games, win silly prizes.

It's sad that 2 young lads lost their lives, but put it down to bad parenting, poor upbringing and a all round poor start not the police.

Literally everyone I knew growing up could have used the same old excuses and turned into scrubby little *****.

As it was, hardly anyone was actually like that.

Seems a bit more prevalent these days though - why is that?

[Nori1958]

Literally everyone I knew growing up could have used the same old excuses and turned into scrubby little *****.

As it was, hardly anyone was actually like that.

Seems a bit more prevalent these days though - why is that?

Discipline....at home...at school...by police etc etc....doesn't seem much about nowadays

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Literally everyone I knew growing up could have used the same old excuses and turned into scrubby little *****.

As it was, hardly anyone was actually like that.

Seems a bit more prevalent these days though - why is that?

The rise of social media means you see more of it now than you ever did.

People thrive off recording their stupidity for the world to see.
Take that lad in London as an example, recorded all his trespassing etc and then as a result he's ended up in court.

There were plenty of idiots around when I was younger, but we only heard about what our areas idiots were doing, we couldn't see what idiots were doing other side of the country.

[Stayingup]

Grievance + Sunshine = High Riot Potential

Main two causes of rioting.

And not much of a deterrent.

[Walton]

Just seen an update on this: the driver and passenger of the police van have been served with Gross Misconduct notices

[kentonclaret]

Just seen an update on this: the driver and passenger of the police van have been served with Gross Misconduct notices

The BBC update then states “this does not mean that the officers will face disciplinary proceedings “.

Just routine whilst an investigation is underway.

[Nori1958]

Just seen an update on this: the driver and passenger of the police van have been served with Gross Misconduct notices

Standard practice