England v Spain - World cup final

[Jakubclaret]

Aye, sure pal, snooker threads get to five pages on here, and they're posted regularly, and it's just everyone chiming in about how $hite they think snooker is. You carry on believing that your one or two little exceptions plucked from your arse - oblivious, I might theorise, to the possibility that such comments are a provocation made in response to the typical course of a women's football thread - are patterns of behaviour comparable to what we see on women's football threads. You keep believing that, good for you pal. A story as old as time: the eternal search for a higher justification for being a dick.

I can't be bothered arguing if you can call it that a minor disagreement, I wish I had pound for every upstart I'd encountered when I was younger drinking in the pubs usually sporting a black eye & talking & talking & knowing all the answers to life (ten a penny) when they should have been listening & could have avoided the shiner.

[yTib]

when i see the hype by the media and some on here i wonder if the world has finally lost its mind.

telling us that the entire nation are bothered and comparisons with 1966 are just so bizarre i struggle to find the words.

i'm all for women's footy and i hope some day the entertainment it provides merits all this attention.

until then i'm afraid it's entertainment value is akin to when folk slow down on the motorway to gawp at an accident on the opposite carriageway.

[helmclaret]

Thought it was a strange decision to take Daly and Russo off at half time. Ball didn’t stick up front in the second half and Russo is a class act in and around the box.

Spain too good in the end but a fantastic effort from England all tournament.

You can’t do much more than make it to semis and finals on a consistent basis.

[davideyresleftear]

Well played lionesses, they have done themselves proud in this tournament. The tournament itself was great as well, good value and entertaining from the start. Glad it got the coverage it deserves.

I do worry about this Spain team though, a few of their best players weren’t even at the tournament. We might be about to see a period of dominance from them.

[Robbie_painter]

There's a lot of sad $hit written on this thread but I think the sentence "I follow a pub team in Accy" might be the single saddest sentence I've ever read in my life. I think if those lads from the pub team in Accy gave a pass on a pie or two and perhaps drank water instead of RealAle™ it'd improve the Spectacle™, but here we are, with miserable old shits watching literal pub football while complaining about the quality of the women's game as though it's that which affronts them, the quality of the game, and not the fact that their insecurity is being pricked by the fact that legitimately successful and talented women aren't running after them like servile maids, slaving away in a kitchen making a roast dinner for some piteous trog with a beer belly and a tiny cock.

I’m glad the comment annoyed you so much that it provoked this little outburst .I was stating (probably not in the best way) that in my opinion top level women’s football is of a similar standard to the men’s pub league,I apologise if it offended some on here but not you.

[Sproggy]

I’m glad the comment annoyed you so much that it provoked this little outburst .I was stating (probably not in the best way) that in my opinion top level women’s football is of a similar standard to the men’s pub league,I apologise if it offended some on here but not you.

Hey ChatGPT, write me an irrationally angry response to a football post in the style of a petulant 13 year old with a new thesaurus. Keep punctuation to a minimun.

[BleedingClaret]

when i see the hype by the media and some on here i wonder if the world has finally lost its mind.

telling us that the entire nation are bothered and comparisons with 1966 are just so bizarre i struggle to find the words.

i'm all for women's footy and i hope some day the entertainment it provides merits all this attention.

until then i'm afraid it's entertainment value is akin to when folk slow down on the motorway to gawp at an accident on the opposite carriageway.

I sort of reluctantly agree
The virtue signalling is galling and the added hypocrisy
along the lines of we don’t need men but we want the same money, i.e. a share of the money that’s in the men’s game currently, is grating to say the least.
That said I watched the England games and thought they were watchable, I was annoyed by team selections but I always am.
This point is the most telling though.
I’m in a household with 5 females
My Missus
My daughters 11,13 & 15
and the mother in law who does a 40 hr week here!
Of the 5 only my 11 & 13 year olds were aware of it at all
The 13 year old kept an ear out as I watched
None have commented at all, not 1 observation.
My opinion
I zoomed into the emotions of the England players, weirdly maybe, and that is why I shared the theatre (I wondered if they would do the women’s team shirt in men’s friendly sizes) I can name virtually all the squad by sight, I know where some of them come from their height their goal scoring records their domestic team.
My 13 year old just may be able to name Chloe Kelly but I doubt it.
My opinion again
Females need there to be something in it for them
So the women’s game will remain limited on spectators but advertising will bring them considerable revenue in the future.
Controversially, I think
Straight women will still go to the men’s game to ogle Grealish’s legs etc and be around men, which is why the, don’t say it, the vast majority of the women’s games crowds, don’t write it, can’t resist, will be made up of Kids and their parents, lots of young girls told it’s their right and future wealth on the line and loads of, are you really going to write this, well lesbians who like looking at women and being around women.
Oh dear..

[Big Vinny K]

I sort of reluctantly agree
The virtue signalling is galling and the added hypocrisy
along the lines of we don’t need men but we want the same money, i.e. a share of the money that’s in the men’s game currently, is grating to say the least.
That said I watched the England games and thought they were watchable, I was annoyed by team selections but I always am.
This point is the most telling though.
I’m in a household with 5 females
My Missus
My daughters 11,13 & 15
and the mother in law who does a 40 hr week here!
Of the 5 only my 11 & 13 year olds were aware of it at all
The 13 year old kept an ear out as I watched
None have commented at all, not 1 observation.
My opinion
I zoomed into the emotions of the England players, weirdly maybe, and that is why I shared the theatre (I wondered if they would do the women’s team shirt in men’s friendly sizes) I can name virtually all the squad by sight, I know where some of them come from their height their goal scoring records their domestic team.
My 13 year old just may be able to name Chloe Kelly but I doubt it.
My opinion again
Females need there to be something in it for them
So the women’s game will remain limited on spectators but advertising will bring them considerable revenue in the future.
Controversially, I think
Straight women will still go to the men’s game to ogle Grealish’s legs etc and be around men, which is why the, don’t say it, the vast majority of the women’s games crowds, don’t write it, can’t resist, will be made up of Kids and their parents, lots of young girls told it’s their right and future wealth on the line and loads of, are you really going to write this, well lesbians who like looking at women and being around women.
Oh dear..

Wow !!
You thought of writing a blog on women’s football ?

An alternative view - and I know that this might sound a but crazy and wacky is that some girls and women aren’t that bothered about watching and playing football (and probably never will be) but that a significantly increasing number of girls and women are playing and watching football simply because they enjoy it. In fact it’s not just football but many other sports are reporting significant increases in participation by girls / women.

I know that’s a bit out there - sorry it’s just my opinion.

In other news some girls and women like men’s football and some boys and men like women’s football.

[BleedingClaret]

Wow !!
You thought of writing a blog on women’s football ?

An alternative view - and I know that this might sound a but crazy and wacky is that some girls and women aren’t that bothered about watching and playing football (and probably never will be) but that a significantly increasing number of girls and women are playing and watching football simply because they enjoy it. In fact it’s not just football but many other sports are reporting significant increases in participation by girls / women.

I know that’s a bit out there - sorry it’s just my opinion.

In other news some girls and women like men’s football and some boys and men like women’s football.

I don’t disagree with anything you say

But there’s a socio political agenda, that’s disengaging someone like me that has engaged with the increased availability to view the Women’s game.
But then I’m not their target audience.
They just want the Neanderthals to keep their outdated
thoughts to theirselves, keep quiet, whilst at the same time bankrolling their daughters interest in their own route to wealth and celebrity.
My daughters aren’t interested despite my promptings and I’m feeling less inclined to try and engage them.
The women of the women’s game have fast tracked to the greed and self entitlement that’s now in the men’s game,
but I was hooked on that when the players lived next door to the fans, married local girls or even drove a local bus once their playing time was up.
At least the men’s game did the hard yards not demanded equality piggy backing on the back of the beautiful game, that was, and has been a 150 years in the making.
How do you write a Blog?

[IanMcL]

Is the England keeper's nickname, Wyatt?

[Big Vinny K]

I don’t disagree with anything you say

But there’s a socio political agenda, that’s disengaging someone like me that has engaged with the increased availability to view the Women’s game.
But then I’m not their target audience.
They just want the Neanderthals to keep their outdated
thoughts to theirselves, keep quiet, whilst at the same time bankrolling their daughters interest in their own route to wealth and celebrity.
My daughters aren’t interested despite my promptings and I’m feeling less inclined to try and engage them.
The women of the women’s game have fast tracked to the greed and self entitlement that’s now in the men’s game,
but I was hooked on that when the players lived next door to the fans, married local girls or even drove a local bus once their playing time was up.
At least the men’s game did the hard yards not demanded equality piggy backing on the back of the beautiful game, that was, and has been a 150 years in the making.
How do you write a Blog?

Women’s game has been going for more than a hundred years too - it’s just the FA decided to ban them for 50 of that !!

It’s a completely different world now too - it’s very difficult to make comparisons between the men’s struggle to get beyond the maximum weekly wage etc and what is happening now.
I saw a recent ex England women’s player on the TV today - Faye White. She isn’t asking for equal pay with the men at all. I’m not sure many women are. She spoke a lot of common sense and said she is happy that the game is growing and she wants it to grow further. She said that as the game grows and revenues grow that women’s pay needs to grow too. She also pointed out that the prize fund for the women’s World Cup was a lot bigger than when she played - and she only stopped playing not that long ago.

I think the men who are outraged and saying that it’s crazy women want to be paid the same as men are not really listening or understanding to what is being said.
Equal rights, access, opportunities etc is not the same as equal pay.

[ClaretPete001]

I got a bit sick of the hype surrounding this and the virtue signallers insisting that there is a narrow discourse around women's football. I think the best tribute you can pay to the quality of the football is to talk about the football.

To be honest, I thought Sarah Wiegman got it entirely wrong and handed Spain the game on a platter. If you are basically a possession based side up against another possession based side who are better at it than you are then you have to change your tactics. And we didn't...

In the end it turned into a men against boys (metaphor deliberate) match with the like of Bonmati just dominating the midfield. Players like Olga Carmona are just so clever.

It was the usual - Smarts and technique 1 Hype and Hard running 0

Spain completely boxed off the midfield forcing our running wide players into the middle with disastrous effect.

As other have mentioned the second half subs were just bizarre leaving England with no central strikers (until England came on) and wingers crossing into an empty spaces.

Taking Russo off instead of switching her into the middle was also odd. If you are going to go to a flat back 4 and bring on a winger then it would have been better replacing Toon with James and playing Russo down the middle up front.

All in all it felt like Phil Neville was back in charge. Anyway, I thought the quality of football was outstanding much higher than WSL fayre and the Spanish gave a master class in being Spanish. And what a player Bonmati is....

[BleedingClaret]

Women’s game has been going for more than a hundred years too - it’s just the FA decided to ban them for 50 of that !!

It’s a completely different world now too - it’s very difficult to make comparisons between the men’s struggle to get beyond the maximum weekly wage etc and what is happening now.
I saw a recent ex England women’s player on the TV today - Faye White. She isn’t asking for equal pay with the men at all. I’m not sure many women are. She spoke a lot of common sense and said she is happy that the game is growing and she wants it to grow further. She said that as the game grows and revenues grow that women’s pay needs to grow too. She also pointed out that the prize fund for the women’s World Cup was a lot bigger than when she played - and she only stopped playing not that long ago.

I think the men who are outraged and saying that it’s crazy women want to be paid the same as men are not really listening or understanding to what is being said.
Equal rights, access, opportunities etc is not the same as equal pay.

Maybe I need to look under the surface a bit

I probably see the headlines and react

I thought the Spanish thing was interesting, in that
I wondered if part of their success was that by default initially and then by the craft of their coach they got rid of players that thought they’d earned the right to more professional treatment but then a hungrier for the game set of players got unleashed

Thank you by the way for an intelligent, informative measured response to my clearly differing opinions to yours.

[Big Vinny K]

Maybe I need to look under the surface a bit

I probably see the headlines and react

I thought the Spanish thing was interesting, in that
I wondered if part of their success was that by default initially and then by the craft of their coach they got rid of players that thought they’d earned the right to more professional treatment but then a hungrier for the game set of players got unleashed

Thank you by the way for an intelligent, informative measured response to my clearly differing opinions to yours.

Not a problem - and thanks for your response too.
I have played football for nearly 50 years now (still playing…kind of). Played to a decent level and I find it really sad to see how much men’s football has declined in terms of participation. Also find it really disappointing and disheartening to see how school football is virtually non existent with the priority given for any young lad who is decent to go and join a professional set up (where 99% of them will be discarded at some point).
I feel lucky that I went to a school (St Teds) where football was an integral part of our culture and playing for the school team was fantastic. My team won everything and we played across Lancashire and further and often twice a week on Wednesdays and Saturdays. I was then equally fortunate to play for many years in local and north west counties leagues which were vibrant with 4 and 5 divisions, every pitch was played on etc.

The point being that I think it could take a few generations to turn round what is happening in men’s football and the decline but if the girls and women are on the up I believe this will be good for society and everyone involved.

I cannot think of a situation where I would rather watch women’s football in preference to men’s football with the current difference in standard between the two but I am perfectly happy for women’s football to continue to grow in popularity and I have no issue at all with it being ‘over” promoted (that’s not my view that it is btw). I don’t understand why anyone who loves playing and watching football would want to begrudge 50% of the population what we as men have enjoyed for many years.

[BleedingClaret]

Not a problem - and thanks for your response too.
I have played football for nearly 50 years now (still playing…kind of). Played to a decent level and I find it really sad to see how much men’s football has declined in terms of participation. Also find it really disappointing and disheartening to see how school football is virtually non existent with the priority given for any young lad who is decent to go and join a professional set up (where 99% of them will be discarded at some point).
I feel lucky that I went to a school (St Teds) where football was an integral part of our culture and playing for the school team was fantastic. My team won everything and we played across Lancashire and further and often twice a week on Wednesdays and Saturdays. I was then equally fortunate to play for many years in local and north west counties leagues which were vibrant with 4 and 5 divisions, every pitch was played on etc.

The point being that I think it could take a few generations to turn round what is happening in men’s football and the decline but if the girls and women are on the up I believe this will be good for society and everyone involved.

I cannot think of a situation where I would rather watch women’s football in preference to men’s football with the current difference in standard between the two but I am perfectly happy for women’s football to continue to grow in popularity and I have no issue at all with it being ‘over” promoted (that’s not my view that it is btw). I don’t understand why anyone who loves playing and watching football would want to begrudge 50% of the population what we as men have enjoyed for many years.

I’m still playing (kind of too) at 56
Played at 5 o’clock at the Prairie on the Friday night of the Man City game, missed from 5 yards out dead central keeper nowhere, put it over the bar.
Said to my mate when I got on the game I might be a little less vocal today as I’ve humbled myself and reminded myself how crap I am now.
He just said, you always were
5 minutes into the game, I was up on my feet shouting, I knew everything again
Love it

[CoolClaret]

It's because footy is better than all other sports. People might have their own individual preferences - someone might prefer rugby over footy, or cricket over footy, or fencing, or judo, or rowing, or cycling, or dressage, or darts, or boxing, or heptathlon, or F1, or swimming, but in this country no other sport engages people emotionally on such a scale as football, and it's for this reason that it gets more coverage than other sports both in the men's game and the women's game, in spite of the relative athletic or skill 'level' it's played at compared with other sports.

Fair comment -

I’d be interested to see the profit/loss statements on the WSL / Women’s national team.

I’m very skeptical that a pro women’s league will ever be a money earner in all honesty, if it cannot ever stand on its own two feet should it be subsidised to the extent that it is or should it just be allowed to be a bit more amateur?

Of course I could be wrong and it could become popular - I’d like to see the data on it.

I do think though that games should be played midweek away from any other men’s football fixtures - I could see families going to support a local team on say a Thursday 18:30 kick off compared to mid day Saturday/Sunday fixtures

[Big Vinny K]

Fair comment -

I’d be interested to see the profit/loss statements on the WSL / Women’s national team.

I’m very skeptical that a pro women’s league will ever be a money earner in all honesty, if it cannot ever stand on its own two feet should it be subsidised to the extent that it is or should it just be allowed to be a bit more amateur?

Of course I could be wrong and it could become popular - I’d like to see the data on it.

I do think though that games should be played midweek away from any other men’s football fixtures - I could see families going to support a local team on say a Thursday 18:30 kick off compared to mid day Saturday/Sunday fixtures

Take a look at the Deloittes annual report if you are generally interested in women’s football finances.

Inevitability given that they are going through a period of rapid growth then there is going to be an element of losses. The kind of losses we are talking about for the WSL are commensurate to petty cash for EPL clubs.

As the women’s game grows so will revenues - you can already see that in the rapid growth in the last few years. But it’s very much chicken and egg. They need to make the game attractive by having a strong league with some of the worlds best players and the plan is that sponsorship, TV revenues, and match day income will grow as a result. At some point in the future the hope is that it becomes self sufficient but if it doesn’t then it may go the way of leagues like the MLS did in the past (though it’s booming now).

If you make the game amateur though you may aswell call it a day.

Right now it’s on an upward curve but it’s going to take a number of years. Obviously if the billionaire owners that run many EPL clubs now want to subsidise the women’s teams by a few million as they are doing now then that could continue indefinitely. As said it’s an absolute fraction of how much they subsidise the men’s teams by and I don’t see anybody saying that the men’s game needs to self sufficient or turning amateur !!

[CoolClaret]

Take a look at the Deloittes annual report if you are generally interested in women’s football finances.

Inevitability given that they are going through a period of rapid growth then there is going to be an element of losses. The kind of losses we are talking about for the WSL are commensurate to petty cash for EPL clubs.

As the women’s game grows so will revenues - you can already see that in the rapid growth in the last few years. But it’s very much chicken and egg. They need to make the game attractive by having a strong league with some of the worlds best players and the plan is that sponsorship, TV revenues, and match day income will grow as a result. At some point in the future the hope is that it becomes self sufficient but if it doesn’t then it may go the way of leagues like the MLS did in the past (though it’s booming now).

If you make the game amateur though you may aswell call it a day.

Right now it’s on an upward curve but it’s going to take a number of years. Obviously if the billionaire owners that run many EPL clubs now want to subsidise the women’s teams by a few million as they are doing now then that could continue indefinitely. As said it’s an absolute fraction of how much they subsidise the men’s teams by and I don’t see anybody saying that the men’s game needs to self sufficient or turning amateur !!

Men’s footy is utterly bonkers like - I do think if that bubble burst it would always be able to self regulate and becoming stable as a professional sport.

I’ll look into it a bit more, again my point stands about their game times.

I’d definitely be inclined to watch the women play if they are at the Turf during the week, I think a lot of families would also be of the same opinion. Bob Lord only or something.

Not sure how they expect to grow the game when the majority of the games are playing when the PL/champ fixtures are on

[Big Vinny K]

Men’s footy is utterly bonkers like - I do think if that bubble burst it would always be able to self regulate and becoming stable as a professional sport.

I’ll look into it a bit more, again my point stands about their game times.

I’d definitely be inclined to watch the women play if they are at the Turf during the week, I think a lot of families would also be of the same opinion. Bob Lord only or something.

Not sure how they expect to grow the game when the majority of the games are playing when the PL/champ fixtures are on

They are growing the game though.
I don’t think they play any of their games at 3pm on a Saturday when the vast majority of men’s games are played so I think they may have already thought of that.
Thursday night is also when European games are played - so there’s never a time when some games are not on tv. I’m pretty sure they schedule their games for when they believe they will get the maximum crowds and tv audiences they can. Hence why majority of women’s league are played on a Sunday.

[CoolClaret]

They are growing the game though.
I don’t think they play any of their games at 3pm on a Saturday when the vast majority of men’s games are played so I think they may have already thought of that.
Thursday night is also when European games are played - so there’s never a time when some games are not on tv. I’m pretty sure they schedule their games for when they believe they will get the maximum crowds and tv audiences they can. Hence why majority of women’s league are played on a Sunday.

Super Sunday!

Thursday doesn’t always have European games on like, only during specific stints throughout the season, I think pretty much every Sunday has PL footy and now even championship games on.

We’ll see I guess. Just throwing opinions out there.

[aggi]

Fair comment -

I’d be interested to see the profit/loss statements on the WSL / Women’s national team.

I’m very skeptical that a pro women’s league will ever be a money earner in all honesty, if it cannot ever stand on its own two feet should it be subsidised to the extent that it is or should it just be allowed to be a bit more amateur?

Of course I could be wrong and it could become popular - I’d like to see the data on it.

I do think though that games should be played midweek away from any other men’s football fixtures - I could see families going to support a local team on say a Thursday 18:30 kick off compared to mid day Saturday/Sunday fixtures

You could use the same argument about the majority of the men's championship teams (and plenty of other teams). There are many clubs who have had huge subsidies from their owners. Some may be starting to turn it round (Brighton for instance have had something upwards of £400m from their owners) but others (Blackburn is an obvious) don't look like they will be in a position to repay any time soon.

The Conference is very much the same with more clubs becoming professional and bigger debts being accrued.

Some of the WSL clubs have been starting to get hefty crowds. Arsenal averaged something like 18,000, I think the Manchester teams got about 10,000 each and the expectation is that this will continue to grow.

[CoolClaret]

You could use the same argument about the majority of the men's championship teams (and plenty of other teams). There are many clubs who have had huge subsidies from their owners. Some may be starting to turn it round (Brighton for instance have had something upwards of £400m from their owners) but others (Blackburn is an obvious) don't look like they will be in a position to repay any time soon.

The Conference is very much the same with more clubs becoming professional and bigger debts being accrued.

Some of the WSL clubs have been starting to get hefty crowds. Arsenal averaged something like 18,000, I think the Manchester teams got about 10,000 each and the expectation is that this will continue to grow.

No doubt that men’s footy is nuts. See my previous reply that I do think it could stand on its own feet again if/when the bubble ever bursts.

Be interested to see the average price of the tickets for the WSL games and if the game could ever turn into a money spinner.

Time will surely tell

[Stalbansclaret]

To be honest, I thought Sarah Wiegman got it entirely wrong and handed Spain the game on a platter. If you are basically a possession based side up against another possession based side who are better at it than you are then you have to change your tactics. And we didn't...

In the end it turned into a men against boys...

I really hope this isn’t an epitaph for our season this year !!!

[aggi]

Interesting stat from Opta showing how well Spain pressed yesterday.

I think this was our real undoing, just no time on the ball and we couldn't cope with it.

Screenshot 2023-08-21 144716.jpg (75.67 KiB) Viewed 1101 times

[ClaretPete001]

I really hope this isn’t an epitaph for our season this year !!!

It did cross my mind to be honest. I think an awful lot depends upon Berge's partnership with Cullen... and we just don't know yet because City are City.

[ClaretPete001]

Interesting stat from Opta showing how well Spain pressed yesterday.

I think this was our real undoing, just no time on the ball and we couldn't cope with it.

Screenshot 2023-08-21 144716.jpg

Spain pressed better because they had the better players.

You could try and press Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets until the cows come home and be run ragged by half time.

There was no out ball and our better forwards like Russo was run ragged chasing Carmona around the pitch. When your star forward is being given a lesson in attacking play by a full back you know you are in trouble!

They were just in another league quality wise all over the pitch - fair play to them.