Mr Bates vs the Post Office

[Paul Waine]

Still dragging on as it will be July before it becomes law and more of the Post Masters may have died by then
Government dragging it on longer than necessary
Should start making payments now imo

I'd expect compensation payments aren't waiting until this law is passed.

[dougcollins]

Dragging it out so the next government have to deal with it.

As accused.

[GetIntoEm]

Think you're missing the bigger picture, locking 100's of innocent people up ,many of whom would have been classed as 1st time offenders surely makes a bigger mockery of the system.

I'm not saying that innocent people should suffer, but just wiping the slate clean for hundreds isn't the right way to deal with it in my opinion.

[Big Vinny K]

I'm not saying that innocent people should suffer, but just wiping the slate clean for hundreds isn't the right way to deal with it in my opinion.

Well what is ?
The post office are saying there could be 300 plus who were correctly convicted and they have the “evidence”.

Why for one second would we believe one word they say or a shred of their so called evidence ?
Remember the innocent and possibly the odd guilty person have already suffered with losing their businesses, livelihoods, etc etc for decades.

Are we going to look at all these cases and review all this evidence….would take several years.
It needs sorting now and nothing the PO say should be believed.

[dsr]

Well what is ?
The post office are saying there could be 300 plus who were correctly convicted and they have the “evidence”.

Why for one second would we believe one word they say or a shred of their so called evidence ?
Remember the innocent and possibly the odd guilty person have already suffered with losing their businesses, livelihoods, etc etc for decades.

Are we going to look at all these cases and review all this evidence….would take several years.
It needs sorting now and nothing the PO say should be believed.

I would have thought that the Appeal Court can set aside two or three weeks and hear each individual case, and basically review the judges' summing up. If weight was placed on the computer systems being accurate, then the case can be thrown out. That way each individual will be exonerated personally and publicly.

[Big Vinny K]

I would have thought that the Appeal Court can set aside two or three weeks and hear each individual case, and basically review the judges' summing up. If weight was placed on the computer systems being accurate, then the case can be thrown out. That way each individual will be exonerated personally and publicly.

All well and good in theory but the reality will be that there is no way you could trust the evidence presented by the Post Office in that it will be based on some kind of system or data that they have - irrespective of whether it is Horizon or not.
That’s your starting point - challenging the evidence presented to the judge in the original case and not the judges summing up. These are the same judges (or judicial system) that got it so wrong with the innocent post masters.
So then you are left with no (or little) choice than to review all the evidence and testimonies etc.

Bear in mind too that the people bringing these cases to court are the same lying and incompetent internal investigators in the Post Office that brought the other cases to court.

[Big Vinny K]

Starting to unravel for the Post Office now.
Cannot see any way in a million years that members of the government were not aware of this either.
If Sunak had any spine at all he would instruct criminal prosecutions against those involved and take away all their pensions too to try and recoup the £100m they spent trying to protect themselves


https://apple.news/AdLMPqGNbRYu65WB-swDR8g

[mdd2]

This has to be the biggest most heinous cover up of Big Business crushing the little man. Those found out need locking up and the key thrown away IMO and none of the Mr Saunders leniency for those who remember Guinness scandal-the only man to be cured of dementia-a criminal in civvy street and a criminal in jail.
And as Big Vinny states these people wasted £100 million flogging innocent people even apparently when some knew these sub-postmasters were innocent. Those involved in all this have to pay with their freedom and £££££££££££. Once this has been done we the taxpayers will have to fund the deficit yet again.
The press has a lot to answer for with its phone hacking the Diana interview etc but full marks to investigative journalism in this case and ITV for its programme which has made the PO case collapse like a pack of cards

[mdd2]

Starting to unravel for the Post Office now.
Cannot see any way in a million years that members of the government were not aware of this either.
If Sunak had any spine at all he would instruct criminal prosecutions against those involved and take away all their pensions too to try and recoup the £100m they spent trying to protect themselves


https://apple.news/AdLMPqGNbRYu65WB-swDR8g

Cannot see any way in a million years that members of the government were not aware of this either.
Sadly I can. They are very distant from the shop floor and cow tow to the top people running these
businesses where the Government oversee the workings. Just look at Thames water the mess it is in
the millions given to shareholders who refuse to shell out unless bills rise 40%. The Government should
fine them for their polluting until their pips squeak (Denis Healy) bankrupt them and take them over for £1
of taxpayers money to sort this.

[Paul Waine]

Starting to unravel for the Post Office now.
Cannot see any way in a million years that members of the government were not aware of this either.
If Sunak had any spine at all he would instruct criminal prosecutions against those involved and take away all their pensions too to try and recoup the £100m they spent trying to protect themselves


https://apple.news/AdLMPqGNbRYu65WB-swDR8g

The Inquiry is there to uncover the truth. Hopefully it will get there.

[Paul Waine]

This has to be the biggest most heinous cover up of Big Business crushing the little man. Those found out need locking up and the key thrown away IMO and none of the Mr Saunders leniency for those who remember Guinness scandal-the only man to be cured of dementia-a criminal in civvy street and a criminal in jail.
And as Big Vinny states these people wasted £100 million flogging innocent people even apparently when some knew these sub-postmasters were innocent. Those involved in all this have to pay with their freedom and £££££££££££. Once this has been done we the taxpayers will have to fund the deficit yet again.
The press has a lot to answer for with its phone hacking the Diana interview etc but full marks to investigative journalism in this case and ITV for its programme which has made the PO case collapse like a pack of cards

This wasn't "Big Business" this was the Post Office, and the government department that ran and runs the Post Office.

Are we really crediting the media for investigating the post office scandal? Computer Weekly were the ones to report it. Apart from Private Eye, no one else took this up for many years. It's all been the efforts of the sub-postmasters themselves and a few MPs, plus Second Sight, the forensic accountants. ITV's drama has captured everyone's attention and things are finally getting done. Of course, the Post Office Inquiry has also been progressing in the last year or so.

[IanMcL]

Out of the news now. Business as normal. Gov retreat. PO raise issues of 'proper fraud' and need to know who they are, before anyone gets paid.

Another few years.

[Herts Clarets]

This article appears to ramp up the level of deceit, dishonesty and potential perjury now for Fujitsu and PO legal teams. Reports of manually amending accounts at PO branches from Fujitsu, PO Management and indeed prosecuting lawyers all aware of the report and the implications it would have on pending prosecutions, yet they continued with the court cases.

Summed up by one of the barristers who defended sub postmasters, including Seema Misra, wrongly imprisoned whilst pregnant "Mr Marshall said it was "unclear" how lawyers who knew about this issue in 2010 "could have conscientiously continued to be engaged in the prosecution of postmasters".

"That destabilises and renders unsafe every single prosecution by the Post Office for the relevant period," he added."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68857142

[Boss Hogg]

I see that there is a petition to remove the P0 investigator from Liverpool who gave the shambles of a performance in the enquiry. He somehow still works for the Post Office. The organisation is riddled with lies, bullying and cover ups and I hope there are prosecutions with custodial sentences.

[Big Vinny K]

I’m very concerned about what seems to be an epidemic of a new very serious illness in this country.
SML (Selective Memory Loss).

At the moment this cruel disease only seems to have impacted ex Post Office employees, the staff of a Japenese technology company and a firm of solicitors who used to work for the Post Office.

Rumour has it that a ginger woman of the cloth called Paula something or other is the latest poor victim to be struck down by the devestating “I cannot recall” disorder.

[Herts Clarets]

I’m very concerned about what seems to be an epidemic of a new very serious illness in this country.
SML (Selective Memory Loss).

At the moment this cruel disease only seems to have impacted ex Post Office employees, the staff of a Japenese technology company and a firm of solicitors who used to work for the Post Office. .

It is more serious than this. There was a severe outbreak that affected members of the Conservative party and their associates. The symptoms were most prevalent when presented with questions regarding the 2020/21 Covid outbreak and subsequent government handling of the pandemic and lockdown in the UK.

As for the horrible creature Vennels, I sincerely hope that she swaps the multi million pound Ivory Tower she currently occupies in Turvey, Bedfordshire for a bijoux studio apartment somewhere closer to the capital. Holloway for example.

[Andy_G]

[

As for the horrible creature Vennels, I sincerely hope that she swaps the multi million pound Ivory Tower she currently occupies in Turvey, Bedfordshire for a bijoux studio apartment somewhere closer to the capital. Holloway for example.
[/quote]

I wish!

Not going to happen though.

Holding people in high office to account?

It would set a precedent that would have the the ruling classes quaking in their boots.

[Boss Hogg]

Mr J Singh a senior PO lawyer can’t remember any documents and says he didn’t know how to save documents on to a computer. Hopefully he’s not still practicing. These people can’t be allowed to get away with bare faced lies. Hopefully the new government will see this through properly and prosecute these people who have covered this up. The current one is unlikely to do anything decisive and properly.

[Taffy on the wing]

Watched the first two episodes last night.....riveting stuff!

Fully agree that those responsible need to pay dearly.

[bfcjg]

Mr J Singh a senior PO lawyer can’t remember any documents and says he didn’t know how to save documents on to a computer. Hopefully he’s not still practicing. These people can’t be allowed to get away with bare faced lies. Hopefully the new government will see this through properly and prosecute these people who have covered this up. The current one is unlikely to do anything decisive and properly.

It's the police who prosecute not the government, regardless of who is in power though there is obviously a widespread cover up and blatant corruption. Surely there is enough coming out now for serious charges to be made.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

It's the police who prosecute not the government, regardless of who is in power though there is obviously a widespread cover up and blatant corruption. Surely there is enough coming out now for serious charges to be made.

It is usually the Crown Prosecution Service who bring prosecutions, but in relation to the Horizon scandal, the majority of prosecution's were brought privately by the Post Office themselves

[Big Vinny K]

https://x.com/ruddick/status/1786356603 ... 5lZs_IIl1Q

https://x.com/stugoo17/status/178613198 ... 5lZs_IIl1Q

Corrupt to the bone
Even if these firms and individuals were struck off it would make little difference - they’ve already had their 30 pieces of silver.
The only justice would be to imprison them and freeze their assets. These people will no doubt have expensive properties and huge pensions which have been gained by effectively criminal acts.

[Big Vinny K]

Paula Vennells just started her sessions in front of the enquiry.

Still cannot understand why Crozier seems to have got away scott free with all of this. His name is rarely even mentioned.

Hope Vennells gets what she deserves - but I doubt it based on the long list of things they are going through now that she claims she did not see.

[Billyblah]

Having watched parts of the enquiry via BBC online it's fascinating how the format has taken shape.
Those in the witness box firstly offering a full apology (probably more because they've been found out rather than anything directly thought out and sincere) and then questioning prompted by documentation/e mails where some apparently quite bright people, wriggle, squirm and apply the 'selective memory loss' that others have referred to.
I've noted that one or two have had to alter their own submissions having been presented with data that has caught them out/been so damning.

[Boss Hogg]

She sounds very rehearsed and arrogant ( and well prepped by her lawyers) but completely incompetent as a CEO based on her answers so far.

[IanMcL]

Vennells was a disgrace. That was Rupert Murdochesque! Little old man, hardly put one foot in front of the other. Trial over and he is skydiving!

She was crying at nothing. Knew nothing of what was going on about anything (and she was in charge!)
And couldn't remember what she did, or knew, at any time. Just 'I am sorry'. Rubbish. Jail!

[bfcjg]

She's a vile disgusting creature,as said jail her.

[martin_p]

I assume the part time priest prayed for divine intervention yesterday morning. Then less than an hour before the main evening news bulletins the government call an election and her appearance at the inquiry is relegated to a fairly minor news item. I’m not a believer in an all powerful god, but if I was I’d be using yesterday as proof one existed!

[IanMcL]

Vennells was slaughtered by the barrister and came across as not very clever! How do these people become CEO???

She said she didn't interpret an email as the words were written.

Barrister asked what words didn't you include in your interpretation and what was your interpretation? How did you conclude the interpretation from this email?

She couldn't answer any of it!!! Sat like the fool she obviously is. She was elevated by the tory fascists. Like the woman on track and trace!

[yTib]

i'm genuinely surprised vennells didn't show up to the inquiry carrying a walking stick and or/breathing apparatus.

[IanMcL]

i'm genuinely surprised vennells didn't show up to the inquiry carrying a walking stick and or/breathing apparatus.

Just a poor memory and a bucket of tears.

[jjclaret]

Just a poor memory and a bucket of tears.

It would have saved a lot of time and money if she had simply declared her defence as:
Having "Just a poor memory and a bucket of tears.", refused to answer any more questions and left it at that.

[Big Vinny K]

Vennells was slaughtered by the barrister and came across as not very clever! How do these people become CEO???

She said she didn't interpret an email as the words were written.

Barrister asked what words didn't you include in your interpretation and what was your interpretation? How did you conclude the interpretation from this email?

She couldn't answer any of it!!! Sat like the fool she obviously is. She was elevated by the tory fascists. Like the woman on track and trace!

She is extremely intelligent….knowing the Post Office organisation as I do it’s very easy to see how she ended up as CEO.

As for her answers so far she seems clever enough to deal with every question in exactly the way her lawyers have briefed her that she should.

At the start of the proceedings yesterday she was reminded of her rights that if there were any questions where her answer may incriminate her then she was entitled not to answer them. Her response was to tell the inquiry that she would be answering all the questions. And the only reason she was able to claim that before the questions had been asked was because she is so well briefed on exactly how to answer the questions without incriminating herself. Whilst sometimes this can lead to groans and laughter from the gallery or tears from PV this is a small price to pay for her to avoid prison or criminal charges.

It’s wrong on many levels but just like the report that has come out this week on blood transfusions which was as damning as can be how many people will end up in prison. In this scandal most of the protagonists are dead but we know that at least one person is alive - Kenneth Clarke. Does anybody think he will go to prison ? Will he lose his pension or privileges ?


Look at the banking crash where every banking regulation and law under the sun was broken. One person went to prison. It should have been thousands.


It’s the way of the world. You can go to prison for shoplifting to feed your family. But commit corporate fraud and cost economies trillions of pounds and you end up with a series on Netflix.

[Spijed]

She is extremely intelligent….knowing the Post Office organisation as I do it’s very easy to see how she ended up as CEO.

As for her answers so far she seems clever enough to deal with every question in exactly the way her lawyers have briefed her that she should.

At the start of the proceedings yesterday she was reminded of her rights that if there were any questions where her answer may incriminate her then she was entitled not to answer them. Her response was to tell the inquiry that she would be answering all the questions. And the only reason she was able to claim that before the questions had been asked was because she is so well briefed on exactly how to answer the questions without incriminating herself. Whilst sometimes this can lead to groans and laughter from the gallery or tears from PV this is a small price to pay for her to avoid prison or criminal charges.

It’s wrong on many levels but just like the report that has come out this week on blood transfusions which was as damning as can be how many people will end up in prison. In this scandal most of the protagonists are dead but we know that at least one person is alive - Kenneth Clarke. Does anybody think he will go to prison ? Will he lose his pension or privileges ?


Look at the banking crash where every banking regulation and law under the sun was broken. One person went to prison. It should have been thousands.


It’s the way of the world. You can go to prison for shoplifting to feed your family. But commit corporate fraud and cost economies trillions of pounds and you end up with a series on Netflix.

Two simple words describe many at the top of the Post Office who were involved in the scandal and subsequent cover up.

"Pure Evil".