England Team v Slovenia

[MT03ALG]

Take the game to Slovenia.

Leave the defence as it is but formation of 1-4-1-2-3

Pickford
Walker-Stones-Guehi-Trippier
Rice
Bellingham-Foden
Palmer-Watkins-Gordon

More pace, skill, energy, effort required.
Play in the opposition half.
Replace front three if necessary with 3 from Bowen, Saka, Toney, Eze, Mainoo.
Wharton and Gallagher also subs.

Give Kane a break.

[timshorts]

-------------------Mackem
------Walker - Stones - Guehi -
Saka - Rice - Wharton - Gordon
----------Foden - Bellingham
—-----------Watkins/Palmer

[CoolClaret]

Rice has been ineffective playing as a single defensive midfielder - he (and Arsenal) were at their best when he was playing further forward and given a license to drive with the ball.

The problem is, I'm not sure that England have a proper '6' in the team that could do that; Stones perhaps could but then you've just moved a top class centre half out of position and need to fill his position.

It's a tough one this. The obvious change people want is to have

----Bellingham-Rice
Sake-----Foden-----Gordon
----------Kane

but I see no reason as to why we can't play a proper 4-4-2

------------Pickford
TAA---Stones---Guehi---Shaw*
Saka---Bellingham-Rice---Gordon
---------Watkins---Kane

It's certainly attacking but immediately the opposition would have to really account for Saka, Gordon and Watkins and naturally will drop deeper as a result - if not, their in behind threat (particularly Watkins and Gordon) could be deadly with the passing ability of Kane and TAA.

Shaw not being fit is huge miss though and the other options for left back just ain't it. Another option is for 3 atb but again, you're then needing wing backs and we don't really have any in the squad that have played their regularly.

A ridiculously imbalanced squad that was chosen causes these problems...

[timshorts]

but I see no reason as to why we can't play a proper 4-4-2

------------Pickford
TAA---Stones---Guehi---Shaw*
Saka---Bellingham-Rice---Gordon
---------Watkins---Kane

Well you pointed out one reason - Shaw not being fit, but the other one is having a right back that can't play a 442 right back.

To be honest, I don't know what position Arnold can play. It's all very well being able to take free kicks and put a cross in, but where do you play someone who is just a shite David Beckham?

[Newcastleclaret93]

I think if we are playing best players in the best positions then I would go the following:

Pickford
Trent, Stones, Geuhi, Gomez
Bellingham, Rice, Foden,
Saka, Kane, Gordon

But I think this team gives us much more balance

Pickford
Trent, Stones, Geuhi, Gomez
Wharton, Rice, Bellingham
Saka, Kane, Eze

I think Kane and Foden are trying to play in similar positions and not sure they work together.

[Stacky_claret]

Why was Shaw selected to go in the first place lol as good as he is he’s an absolute sick note who was always liable to not be fit

[Dyched]

People whinging about GS selections then wanting Bellingham to play CM is as stupid as it gets. HE DOESN’T PLAY IN CM!!!

[CoolClaret]

Well you pointed out one reason - Shaw not being fit, but the other one is having a right back that can't play a 442 right back.

To be honest, I don't know what position Arnold can play. It's all very well being able to take free kicks and put a cross in, but where do you play someone who is just a shite David Beckham?

Lol - yeah you are quite correct, Shaw not being fit is one reason, I just like the idea of Kane playing as a deep lying forward with another striker up top stretching play.

I really like Trent, I think his passing range and crossing ability is absolutely ridiculous; I'd even argue that whipped crossing and long range passing better than Beckham's, though doesn't have that signature sort of floated outswinging cross from deep to the back stick that Beckham perfected.

He probably is more of a traditional wide right midfielder and perhaps needs a midfielder playing in the old Henderson role for Liverpool covering for him, just think his offensive ability is nuts and totally opens up the entire pitch.

Even though he was getting bypassed defensively as a midfielder against Denmark, he still put some ridiculous balls through and when at right back in Liverpool's Champions league run he was incredible.

[Dyched]

Pickford

Walker Stones Geuhi Shaw (If fit)
Rice Wharton
Foden
Saka Bellingham Watkins

[Newcastleclaret93]

People whinging about GS selections then wanting Bellingham to play CM is as stupid as it gets. HE DOESN’T PLAY IN CM!!!

He’s played about 75% of his games in his career at CM.

It’s only been this last season where he started playing as a false nine (and that was mainly due to the fact Real didn’t have a decent striker). With Mbappe signing for them Bellingham will no doubt go back into CM as a box to box CM

[CoolClaret]

People whinging about GS selections then wanting Bellingham to play CM is as stupid as it gets. HE DOESN’T PLAY IN CM!!!

I mean, he quite literally has every season bar this one and the role he's playing for Ancelotti this season is quite unique and very different to what a more traditional '10' role in a 4-2-3-1.

[Dyched]

He’s played about 75% of his games in his career at CM.

It’s only been this last season where he started playing as a false nine (and that was mainly due to the fact Real didn’t have a decent striker). With Mbappe signing for them Bellingham will no doubt go back into CM as a box to box CM

Yes but that 25% he’s scored plenty and Won the CL and La Liga. I want players in my team that have won titles. I want them to play if they can in the position that they won titles. Not where they played drawing 0-0 in the Championship.

[RVclaret]

————————Pickford
TAA———Stones———Guehi——Gomez
—————Wharton——Rice
Saka———-—Bellingham———-Gordon
—————-———Kane

It addresses several key issues

Balance: Wharton is two footed, primarily left, while Gomez can actually use his left foot, unlike Trippier. This creates better passing angles and makes retaining possession more natural, while now it’s forced.

Width: Gordon can play the role of providing the width we are missing on the left, this in turn allows more space for Kane to play in, with Bellingham, Saka and Gordon making runs beyond him

Better passers from deep: any team that wants to dominate the ball (which given our squad we should be doing) needs someone to be comfortable receiving the ball deep, playing on the half turn, fizzing simple balls quickly, one-two touch, Wharton offers that despite inexperience. Playing Trent at right back also allows better ball progression than Walker offers. Keeping in mind the above point of runners beyond Kane, Trent’s passing in behind will help create chances.

Round pegs, round holes: Rice played (and shone) alongside Jorginho (the 6, the sitter) all season at Arsenal, why’s he playing as a sole 6? His build up from deep is very basic and isn’t utilising his strength (aggressive ball winning & ball carrying). Foden is a wonderful player but without a genuine wing back it’s pointless playing him from the left unfortunately.

[CoolClaret]

Yes but that 25% he’s scored plenty and Won the CL and La Liga. I want players in my team that have won titles. I want them to play if they can in the position that they won titles. Not where they played drawing 0-0 in the Championship.

If you want to replicate the Madrid system then Kane wouldn't be in the side, nor Foden.

It'd be something more akin to -

------------Pickford
Walker-Stones-Guehi-?*
------Mainoo-Rice-Wharton
------------Bellingham
------Toney-------Watkins

I'm not averse to it but there's no chance on earth that Southgate plays that.

[CoolClaret]

————————Pickford
TAA———Stones———Guehi——Gomez
—————Wharton——Rice
Saka———-—Bellingham———-Gordon
—————-———Kane

Agree with all that RV and if sticking to 4-2-3-1 would be my favoured lineup as well, even though I don't particularly rate Gomez - it's a big job for Wharton in there like and not sure if he has the discipline/nous/engine to cover for Trent yet as a relative youngster but I guess that there's only one way to find out...

[Dyched]

If you want to replicate the Madrid system then Kane wouldn't be in the side, nor Foden.

It'd be something more akin to -

------------Pickford
Walker-Stones-Guehi-?*
------Mainoo-Rice-Wharton
------------Bellingham
------Toney-------Watkins

I'm not averse to it but there's no chance on earth that Southgate plays that.

There’s not. But a lot of the problems we’ve had starts with Kane. He drops far too deep and pushes the rest of the team back 10-15 yards. There’s no out ball once we’ve got it back.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Pickford
Walker
Stones
Guehi
Arnold
Trippier
Mainoo
Rice
Saka
Gordon
Kane

With strict instructions that if Kane drops into midfield just once, he's hauled off straight away.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Oh dear, missed out Bellingham

Bellingham for Rice.

[bobinho]

I’ve a good idea of what I’d like to see, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to second guess the enigma that is Gareth Southgate.

[CoolClaret]

There’s not. But a lot of the problems we’ve had starts with Kane. He drops far too deep and pushes the rest of the team back 10-15 yards. There’s no out ball once we’ve got it back.

I don't think that's a Kane problem per say - more of a Southgate and his awful setup and tactics problem.

Kane is a fantastic footballer but needs multiple runners in behind him, we cannot use Kane, Bellingham and Foden in the same team. It's a reason why I'd like to see him partner Watkins up top, with Kane playing as a deeper lying linkman and making himself available at the edge of the penalty area for cutbacks etc, somewhat similar to how Bergkamp and Henry played together as a front two.

[SonofPog]

This is what I posted on the older thread, so i'll still with this.

For me, Kane doesn't look fit (and i believe a hindrance to how we want to play) I go more 424, which would transition into 325 with the RB bombing forward in attack. 424 keeps the press system simple too.

................. Pickford................
Walker/Trips/TAA...... Stones....... Guehi........Gomez
.................. Wharton ....... Rice.................
Saka........Foden......Bellingham.........Gordon.........

[willsclarets]

.....................pickford....................
........Walker......stones....Guehi........
TAA............................................Gordon
........Foden....Bellingham...Rice.......
.............................Kane.......................
...............................Watkins...............

Harsh on Saka but I think for the sake of balance and allowing Foden to play his best this feels better. Kane can drop in without us leaving no one as an out ball. You get the best our of TAA deliveries with more to aim at. There's no one out of position and you've added pace of Gordon (and Watkins)

[LincsWoldsClaret]

Pickford

Walker Stones Geuhi Trippier
Rice
Bowen Mainoo Gallagher Gordon
Watkins

[Greenmile]

….Leave the defence as it is but formation of 1-4-1-2-3…

I have no strong opinions on the England line-up, but I do have a strong opinion on including a “1” for the goalkeeper when discussing formations*. It’s really weird.

(*disclaimer- I don’t really have a strong opinion on this, either. It is weird, though.)

[Roosterbooster]

I find it baffling that so many people want to leave Foden out
He's had an astonishing season
He was also our best attacking player against Denmark
He plays with Walker at City, and is better on the right/central than the left
So play him on the right. With Walker. It then also gives Walker the space to get forward when Foden naturally comes inside

You can play Saka on the left, especially with Trippier being right footed. TAA needs to be swapped out. And we have 3 natural replacements. You can also drop Bellingham in there if you want to. As much as people think he's a 10, he just isn't. He's a modern day 8 with lots of the attacking abilities that a 10 possesses.

Kane is the biggest question for me. Watkins gives the opposition so much more to think about. And the natural drop of their back line opens up the middle of the park. But Kane also has lots of attributes we can use, as long as we have fast willing runners either side. They could be Saka, Gordon, TAA, Walker, Eze, as long as we are set up correctly. People have mentioned swapping to a 442. But then your using Kane essentially as a 10. And we have a much better 10 than Kane

Here's my starting XI

..............................Kane.........................
...Saka............................ Foden.............
...............Bellingham..............................
.............Rice ...................Gallagher........
Trippier........................................Walker
..................Guehi ............Stones...........
............................Pickford .....................

[Clive 1960]

I'm not bothered what the team is i just want to see a team that's playing for each other and committed and playing for the Country if not the manager and give the fans there and back home something to cheer about , is that asking to much. COME ON ENGLAND...

[CoolClaret]

I find it baffling that so many people want to leave Foden out
He's had an astonishing season
He was also our best attacking player against Denmark
He plays with Walker at City, and is better on the right/central than the left
So play him on the right. With Walker. It then also gives Walker the space to get forward when Foden naturally comes inside

You can play Saka on the left, especially with Trippier being right footed. TAA needs to be swapped out. And we have 3 natural replacements. You can also drop Bellingham in there if you want to. As much as people think he's a 10, he just isn't. He's a modern day 8 with lots of the attacking abilities that a 10 possesses.

Kane is the biggest question for me. Watkins gives the opposition so much more to think about. And the natural drop of their back line opens up the middle of the park. But Kane also has lots of attributes we can use, as long as we have fast willing runners either side. They could be Saka, Gordon, TAA, Walker, Eze, as long as we are set up correctly. People have mentioned swapping to a 442. But then your using Kane essentially as a 10. And we have a much better 10 than Kane

Here's my starting XI

..............................Kane.........................
...Saka............................ Foden.............
...............Bellingham..............................
.............Rice ...................Gallagher........
Trippier........................................Walker
..................Guehi ............Stones...........
............................Pickford .....................

They want to leave Foden out because if you're playing Kane up front on his own then there's only one player (Saka) that is going to get in behind Kane and stretch the defence.

Foden can play on the right/centrally for City because Haaland can stretch the defence and has to be accounted for by opposing defenders - opening all that space up for Foden/Silva/De Bruyne to operate in.

That team would have the exact same problems as the one right now is having - It's either Kane + two/three in behind runners or Kane on the bench.

Pick your poison.

[Ric_C]

Unfortunately there seems to be so much wrong with the balance of this squad, it is very hard to fix our glaring issues overnight. That's on Southgate I'm afraid for taking 4 right backs and one unfit left back.

I also feel that England play better when the 2 playing either side of Kane are more direct and more of a goal threat. I think not taking Rashford is looking like a grave error also (despite his poor form for Man U)

We can and must not play Trippier at left back again. His unwillingness to go down the line made it SO EASY for Denmark to pin us in, and thus the whole shape of our team was lost.

The main issue we need to address is that we need to push ourselves up as a team by about 20-30 yards in general, and start to impose ourselves on the opposition, as it is quite clear 4-2-3-1 isn't working with these players, and if he uses it again on Tuesday than he should be sacked on the spot.

I was going to suggest 3-5-2 but that would mean leaving out Saka and either Foden or Jude so I've got stumped with that. So maybe 4-3-3 is the way to go

I'd like to see Wharton in the team as well. If Southgate plays headless chicken Connor Gallagher again I think my head might explode

Our defence is adequate at this level, but we have some serious attacking threat, so it seems suicidal to set a team up to sit back and soak up pressure. If we went out with guns blazing, then I'd say fair play, but this feels like the death of a thousand cuts at the moment.

[Newcastleclaret93]

This team is crying out for Grealish on the left wing

[Woodleyclaret]

How about playing Tripp right back he's the best crosser in the team.Walker can have the job of left back.

[daveisaclaret]

Fascinated by people picking an England team like Garth Crooks picks his team of the week. There's a reason you've never seen a team play with one midfielder.

[Roosterbooster]

They want to leave Foden out because if you're playing Kane up front on his own then there's only one player (Saka) that is going to get in behind Kane and stretch the defence.

Foden can play on the right/centrally for City because Haaland can stretch the defence and has to be accounted for by opposing defenders - opening all that space up for Foden/Silva/De Bruyne to operate in.

That team would have the exact same problems as the one right now is having - It's either Kane + two/three in behind runners or Kane on the bench.

Pick your poison.

I'd argue City are better with Alvarez over Haaland

And Foden plays either way
So I don't buy that argument

[northernpowerhouse]

I'd ditch the 4231 and go back to the 433 we played in Qatar with Bellingham playing deeper and Gallagher playing the Henderson role. Then bring in Gordon for Foden to keep the width.

Pickford
Walker Stones Guehi Trippier
Bellingham Rice Gallagher
Saka Kane Gordon

[Roosterbooster]

I was going to suggest 3-5-2 but that would mean leaving out Saka and either Foden or Jude so I've got stumped with that.

I think there's a clear 352 option

.........................Pickford
..............Walker Stones Guehi
TAA.................... Rice.................. Saka
............Foden............. Bellingham
........................Kane
............................Watkins

Saka started as a LB

[Rileybobs]

I struggled to see how Southgate was going to accommodate both Foden and Bellingham before the tournament started, and I still do. He will be criticised for doing so but I think he may need to leave Foden out.

Unfortunately we seem to have fallen into the same trap as previous England sides by picking the best players rather than the best team. Plenty of examples of people on here doing the same with their lineups.

Conversely, I heard some interesting thoughts from Philippe Auclair before the tournament started who said that Deschamps had a similar problem with France and opted to play his most intelligent player, Griezmann, out of position in midfield. That didn’t work too badly for them. He made a case that Bellingham could have the tools to sit alongside Rice which would free up the no 10 role for Foden and allow us to play a more direct and pacy threat from the left.

[Rileybobs]

Either way, it’s a huge game on Tuesday as anything other than a win could result in us finishing second in the group which would lead to a last 16 tie against Germany and I would imagine an early exit.

[beddie]

Is he brave enough to drop Kane. This will be a test of his Management skills. I want to see Gordon and Palmer play some part along with Watkins up front.

[CoolClaret]

I'd argue City are better with Alvarez over Haaland

And Foden plays either way
So I don't buy that argument

I mean, Haaland has quite literally scored over 30 goals in both of his seasons at City and played in most of their games - one of the seasons being a treble winning season.

Take Alvarez playing then with Foden for arguments sake, Alvarez is still a very different type of player to Kane, he's much more dynamic/agile.

Just had a quick look at their positioning for the short run of games in which Haaland was injured, and the front 4 of City was

Silva------Foden-----Grealish
------------Alvarez

even then Alvarez tends to be significantly further forward than Foden and it's either Alvarez or Bernado Silva that tends to be the furthest forward in their average positioning.

Also worth noting that City play a very unique, complex style, normally play deep in the opposition's half that takes an age on the training ground to perfect; not really conducive for short prep in tournament football.

I think the argument to be had is that if we want to play Kane as well as Foden and Bellingham, then Bellingham has to drop deeper (as an 8) but then Rice is playing in a role in which he doesn't favour (the 6).

Sticking to this 4-2-3-1 and trying to shoehorn Kane, Bellingham and Foden in the front four is never going to work.

The major problem imo is that Southgate has completely neglected the left hand side of the pitch, and the only genuine left hand sided player (Gordon) isn't even getting any minutes.

[willsclarets]

I think there's a clear 352 option

.........................Pickford
..............Walker Stones Guehi
TAA.................... Rice.................. Saka
............Foden............. Bellingham
........................Kane
............................Watkins

Saka started as a LB

We need to learn not to put square pegs in round holes even if it means dropping a good player. I think this works realltly well except Saka dropped for Gordon. Saka a great impact sub if we need, but it's all about accommodating that midfield 3 for me.

[Roosterbooster]

We need to learn not to put square pegs in round holes even if it means dropping a good player. I think this works realltly well except Saka dropped for Gordon. Saka a great impact sub if we need, but it's all about accommodating that midfield 3 for me.

Isn't Gordon as LWB shoehorning a little?
Yes he's played some games as WB, but he isn't a wing back

[South West Claret.]

How about playing Tripp right back he's the best crosser in the team.Walker can have the job of left back.

Just started to read this thread and thinking the same thing, maybe it’s been tried at Spurs when they were both there and not worked as well?

[SalouClaret]

I have no strong opinions on the England line-up, but I do have a strong opinion on including a “1” for the goalkeeper when discussing formations*. It’s really weird.

(*disclaimer- I don’t really have a strong opinion on this, either. It is weird, though.)

Thought he'd gone mad and was suggesting playing 1 defender at first

[MT03ALG]

Difficult to understand that some people prefer not to select Foden. The team should be built round him. In England we find it difficult to include a class player in our 'hard-working' teams e.g. Glen Hoddle, Matt Le Tissier....

[ecc]

Southgate was praying for Shaw to be fit. Why he didn't include a natural LB like Burn only he knows.

I've not seen much of Foden TBH but he must surely be light years ahead of MLT. Foden couldn't be faulted for effort against Serbia - I didn't see the Denmark game - but the problem is fitting him and Bellingham into the team.

Bellingham doesn't seem to have a fixed position but has an incredibly handy knack of suddenly turning up in dangerous positions at the right time.

Rice seems wasted playing deep against "weaker" teams.

Whatever. Southgate has had 18 months to get ready for this tournament.

You couldn't drop Kane. That really wouldn't make sense.

[Claret Toni]

Foden on the left is a waste, he's just had an immense season playing as a 10, so should be there.

TAA is not a midfield player. For me Bellingham should play CM with Rice.

TAA has superb passing skills but is weak at full back. Walker retains that position for me.

Gordan would be my choice to play wide out left.

Kane just looks slow, doesn't press well and drops too deep - I'd go with Watkins.

Which leaves the last area of relative weakness, left back, but we don't seem to have one. Quick and dirty solution is Trippier.

So that's my thoughts, but I imagine that Southgate with his wealth of football experience both playing and managing, will know better and pick a team to do the business over that footballing powerhouse Slovenia. Plenty of time for planning before then, so I'll plan to wash the car.

[Darthlaw]

TAA has a cross and thats about it. Not great positionally, not great in defence. For that reason he should be understudy to Walker (and possibly even Tripps at RB).

Pickford

Walker Stones Guehi Shaw / Gomez

Bellingham Rice

Saka Foden Palmer

Kane

With the above, Kane and Bellingham would be told that under no uncertain terms if they do not put in the effort in the first 45 mins, they will be dropped and have to wait to get their place back.

These lads need a rocket and need to understand that we will pick the best team and not the best individuals.

[BleedingClaret]

………………….….Pickford
…… Walker……. Stones…………Guehi…..
……… …,,.Rice……….. Mainoo…………
Saka…………... Belingham…….. Gordon
………… Watkins………..…. Kane……………

[ecc]

I've seen Bellingham play five times and I've never seen him put in a real shift. But he is often Johnny On The Spot.

He's undoubtedly very talented and is only 21 (will be 21 in a few weeks) and has huge potential.

A Birmingham supporting friend has long said he feels he'll end up playing as a deep-lying playmaker à la Pirlo.

[Elizabeth]

My starting point is that don't know what team I would play so the superficial posters will read no further
I would definitely drop Trippier and Arnold because I think most but not all of our problems stem from their performances. The idea of dropping Kane has never entered my head and I can find no reason for it to do so. It's a bad idea.
Southgate has made a big mistake with the left back position that will be one of the key reasons we won't win this tournament . We should all know that Gomez is not the answer as he contributes pretty much zero attacking support. Therefore I'm looking for a change in formation at the back but it's probably too late to save the tournament.
Rice needs better support and someone next to him he trusts . I'm with the growing feelings that that player needs to be Bellingham. And on that player it's time he stopped playing the diva. It's a poor look when he is tackled and poses on his back arm outstretched.
For me it's odds on Southgate will go for Bowen before the more exciting talents in Palmer and Gordon. The reason being Southgate is boring and predictable , has used him as sub twice and sent him out to talk in a news conference to get us used to him being a key member of the squad. Nothing against Bowen but not the level of Palmer and not got the pace of Gordon.
I'd give Saka another chance because with better players on the pitch he's a match winner.

[dougcollins]

Whatever. Southgate has had 18 months to get ready for this tournament.

And he's still experimenting, ffs.