Russia Invades

[JarrowClaret]

“While there’s no way RUS deliberately targeted a kids hospital” !!!!! Are you for real ??? This is the monster Putin we’re talking about !

We have no idea what was targeted, on top of that we have no idea what was operating in or around that hospital. If there is a Ukrainian military element within for example it then becomes a legitimate military target as unpalatable as that may be. In no way am I suggesting it was used for military purposes as well it was just an example before I get my head bitten off. Both sides have done some horrible things so until the facts come out it is wise to keep an open mind about this.

[Carlos the Great]

We have no idea what was targeted, on top of that we have no idea what was operating in or around that hospital. If there is a Ukrainian military element within for example it then becomes a legitimate military target as unpalatable as that may be. In no way am I suggesting it was used for military purposes as well it was just an example before I get my head bitten off. Both sides have done some horrible things so until the facts come out it is wise to keep an open mind about this.

You do know that Russia is the aggressor here and has invaded a European country killing women and children randomly ? It’s not tit for tat …

[Rumpelstiltskin]

“Both sides have done some horrible things so until the facts come out it is wise to keep an open mind about this”
My God.That’s so offensive.

[AlargeClaret]

“While there’s no way RUS deliberately targeted a kids hospital” !!!!! Are you for real ??? This is the monster Putin we’re talking about !

How on earth can you even expect any sort of reasonable reply when you’re acting like some hysterical student bereft of any critical balance and cherry picking something to get angry about ? No matter how unpalatable Putin is the UKR are every bit as loose with propaganda as RUS ( themselves the original gods of delusion )

Demonising Putin doesn’t alter the fact that they simply wouldn’t have targeted a kids hospital “ to kill the kids “ While I’ve no doubt RUS are pretty fast and loose with their accuracy , I’d presume it’s either missed its target or was a military facility of sorts . While either way RUS comes away with zero credibility, it’s essential to be open minded about strikes from either side before real facts are established .

[kentonclaret]

We have no idea what was targeted, on top of that we have no idea what was operating in or around that hospital. If there is a Ukrainian military element within for example it then becomes a legitimate military target as unpalatable as that may be. In no way am I suggesting it was used for military purposes as well it was just an example before I get my head bitten off. Both sides have done some horrible things so until the facts come out it is wise to keep an open mind about this.

The bombing of hospitals and healthcare facilities is a tactic that was widely used by Russia in Syria. In May 2019 3 Syrian hospitals were bombed in 1 day with no other aircraft reported to be in the area.

[HahaYeah]

I see Boris was cheer leading the Ukraines Neo Nazi Azov Battallion in Parliament the other week.

Not very widely reported.

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/news/2024/0 ... v-ukraine/

[JarrowClaret]

“Both sides have done some horrible things so until the facts come out it is wise to keep an open mind about this”
My God.That’s so offensive.

What is offensive about that? Both sides are using quite good propaganda so it is hard to know what the real truth is I know what it looks like and maybe it will turn out to be what you think I just think it is wise to understand that not everything you see or read is straight cut when it comes to this. For clarity I have posted in this thread a while ago things that my friend has seen over there so I know full well what the Russians do and are capable of, but i also know the Ukrainians aren’t totally innocent in all that they have done!

[JarrowClaret]

The bombing of hospitals and healthcare facilities is a tactic that was widely used by Russia in Syria. In May 2019 3 Syrian hospitals were bombed in 1 day with no other aircraft reported to be in the area.

I’m not doubting that but that doesn’t make this clear cut that this hospital was targeted for the wrong reasons, I know what it looks like and it is awful but there could be many reasons why it was hit deliberate or accidental.

[JarrowClaret]

You do know that Russia is the aggressor here and has invaded a European country killing women and children randomly ? It’s not tit for tat …

Mate feel free to search for my username on this thread it will be clear then what I do and don’t know also what side I am on. Warfare is never clear cut though we just need to keep an open mind as the news that we see is there because somebody wants us to see it and it isn’t always as clear cut as it appears!

[CoolClaret]

We have no idea what was targeted, on top of that we have no idea what was operating in or around that hospital. If there is a Ukrainian military element within for example it then becomes a legitimate military target as unpalatable as that may be. In no way am I suggesting it was used for military purposes as well it was just an example before I get my head bitten off. Both sides have done some horrible things so until the facts come out it is wise to keep an open mind about this.

No. We really do - he did the exact same in Syria.

Putin & the Russian Federation is a repugnant, terrorist state. It is that simple.

They absolutely flattened Syria and (purposefully) tore down residential areas to instil as much fear as possible - that's another tactic of the Red Army.

[JarrowClaret]

No. We really do - he did the exact same in Syria.

Putin & the Russian Federation is a repugnant, terrorist state. It is that simple.

They absolutely flattened Syria and (purposefully) tore down residential areas to instil as much fear as possible - that's another tactic of the Red Army.

I’m not arguing against any of that other than the first 5 words as we really don’t currently know that we can make a guess probably an educated 1 but it isn’t definitive. All I have said is nothing is clear cut until all the facts are known

[Shaggy]

You are only seeing 1 sided information from western media.

Theres always 3 sides to every story.

[JarrowClaret]

Just to explain the way things work here not long ago it was reported by all the media that the Ukrainians had bombed a beach in Crimea. This was clearly driven by the Russian side but widely reported in the western media it sounded disgusting once you get over the stupidity of being on a beach in what is essentially a war zone!


When facts started to emerge such as fan of the bomblets, how many there were and how many actually detonated it was clearly an ATACMS missile that had been intercepted and they had been released early.

[ecc]

Can't find anything on British media.

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2024 ... ace-summit

Ukraine's Zelensky says he wants Russia ‘at the table’ for next peace summit

In an interview with French reporters at a school gym in the western town of Rivne on Tuesday, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Russia should be represented at a second peace summit set for November after a first summit convened by Ukraine last month in Switzerland did not feature Russia on the invitee list.

Issued on: 31/07/2024 - 19:17
3 min

[elwaclaret]

OSINT TECHNICAL:
A sizeable multi-brigade Ukrainian mechanized offensive launched early yesterday, advancing into Russia’s Kursk Oblast.

Maps posted by Russian sources today indicate Ukrainian forces have pushed nearly 20 kilometers into Russian territory.

https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/182 ... XbpxEsmRVg

[elwaclaret]

You are only seeing 1 sided information from western media.

Theres always 3 sides to every story.

Simply not true. Nexta, Osint are just two of the worldwide news feeds that appear regularly, Reuters is a world feed posted from every nation worldwide.

[AlargeClaret]

The Kursk incursion is quite a thing , UKR now control RUS only gas pipeline to the EU , which is some bargaining chip . Seems they used their best soldiers , equipment etc and caught the Russians napping and oddly poorly defended. While the US are being ludicrous by stating “ we knew nothing about it “ , Putin must be utterly raging . While it’s ultimately a propaganda stunt it’s a bloody good one .

[iowalan]

[LeadBelly]

The Telegraph is reporting today on a large Russian convoy (of reinforcements) being destroyed within this incursion area. May be behind paywall but https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... le-strike/

Key bits of article:
A Ukrainian rocket attack left a trail of dead Russian soldiers and burnt-out military vehicles in “one of the bloodiest strikes of the war”.
Night-time footage emerged early on Friday showing what appeared to be a line of military trucks ablaze on a road in the Kursk region of Russia.
A separate video, shared on Russian social media, appeared to have been taken by someone driving past the aftermath of the apparent strike.

“Many dead, some of the vehicles burned to the ground. It looks like the entire column was carrying infantry,” a Russian Telegram channel wrote of the strike.
“They were armed, most likely a platoon per vehicle. 3-4 companies – an entire battalion was destroyed.

Russia’s FSB security service was reported to have arrested a 48-year-old from Oktyabr’skoe for sharing footage of the aftermath of the strike, according to the Russian Two Majors Telegram channel.

The article has some footage but some can also be found on twitter etc: (May not be true but it seems pertinent that Russian bloggers are ereferring to it)

https://x.com/hochu_dodomu/status/1821802263544828247
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/08/ ... rsk-a85978
https://www.newsweek.com/russian-milita ... on-1936846

[ecc]

[Source: BBC]

"Could Ukraine's incursion shift dynamics of the war?published at 15:01
15:01

Gordon Corera
Security correspondent

Ukraine’s push into Russia took almost everyone by surprise. It is a bold move but also potentially a risky one. But Kyiv seems to be hoping it can change the dynamics of a conflict which had been heading more in Moscow’s favour this year.

Trying to hold on to and occupy Russian territory for any length of time will be challenging if not impossible, given it would be a humiliation for Vladimir Putin, meaning he will bring significant force to bear.

But the push into the Kursk region could be aimed at relieving some pressure in the Donbas where Russia has been making slow but steady advances.

In the short term, Russia may move some of its forces to eject Ukraine but also in the longer term Moscow might also feel it has to deploy more forces across the border region in order to prevent a repeat performance.

But the biggest benefit to Ukraine may be psychological. It signals to both the Ukrainian people and Kyiv’s Western allies that the war is not all going in one direction and there remain ways to reshape the contours of this conflict.

[Colburn_Claret]

The Russians have shown a blitzkreig attitude to attacking Ukraine, flattening everything in its way. Will Putin flatten the Kursk region in order to reclaim it.
It poses a lot of question marks for Putin, trying to predict his reaction is nigh impossible, but it's going to go bad for somebody.

It irks me that we seem to have become blasé about the Ukrainian situation, almost ' oh, is that still going on'. We can't afford to forget them, because in many ways they are suffering for us.

[CoolClaret]

The Russians have shown a blitzkreig attitude to attacking Ukraine, flattening everything in its way. Will Putin flatten the Kursk region in order to reclaim it.
It poses a lot of question marks for Putin, trying to predict his reaction is nigh impossible, but it's going to go bad for somebody.

It irks me that we seem to have become blasé about the Ukrainian situation, almost ' oh, is that still going on'. We can't afford to forget them, because in many ways they are suffering for us.

I was just saying this to some friends of mine - it's insane how little people realise what is going on there right now, as though it's just a minor little squabble.

It's a long drawn out, bloody war with a ginormous front line. The situation should be an ever-present in the West's collective conscious.

[RicardoMontalban]

The Russians have shown a blitzkreig attitude to attacking Ukraine, flattening everything in its way. Will Putin flatten the Kursk region in order to reclaim it.
It poses a lot of question marks for Putin, trying to predict his reaction is nigh impossible, but it's going to go bad for somebody.

It irks me that we seem to have become blasé about the Ukrainian situation, almost ' oh, is that still going on'. We can't afford to forget them, because in many ways they are suffering for us.

I’d say it’s the very opposite of Blitzkrieg. More like glacial annihilation.

[BayArea54]

Flattening everything would be more in line with Russia's response to Germany's Barbarossa campaign during WW2.

[NewClaret]

This move is definitely bold, but then most wars are ended by acts of unbelievable bravery. I hope this is Ukraines moment.

It’s hard to understand their strategy.

Is it to claim the Nuclear plant and exchange it for the one Russia control in Ukraine?

Is it claim territory and then dig in until Russia agree to a land swap?

Is it just to humiliate Putin and force him to make more destabilising changes in his command?

Is it to force the Russians to draw troops & equipment from their reserves/front line to allow an offensive in Ukraine?

Or is it to sneak around the back and take them from the rear so to speak?

It’d be fascinating if it weren’t such a brutal and bloody war.

[Dark Cloud]

I've said it before, but Russia has (since the very early Blitzkrieg offensive didn't work out) elected to play the long game. They have vastly superior resources when it comes to personnel and also numbers of equipment, although probably not quality of equipment. They assumed "the West" would initially be all over it and wouldn't take it lying down, but they also knew that the West would get tired of it if they dragged it out long enough. News of the war has all but disappeared from the front pages and western politicians, who have to actually fight and win proper elections (unlike Putin) have loads of other issues to focus on. We're all but playing right into Putin's hands and have been for a while as the West becomes more and more fragmented on the help provided to UKR and the whole conflict slips from our consciousness. Maybe one reason UKR has entered Kursk is to actually get the conflict back into the western media and get people to realise it's still happening all day, every day and that Russia is quietly getting closer and closer to establishing a "peace" which will simply reward it with everything it wants, which is a big chunk of UKR.

[ecc]

I was just saying this to some friends of mine - it's insane how little people realise what is going on there right now, as though it's just a minor little squabble.

It's a long drawn out, bloody war with a ginormous front line. The situation should be an ever-present in the West's collective conscious.

Totally agree with you but how do you avoid. Have read several reliable reports of many people in cities like Kyiv and Lviv being detached from the war (most of the time).

We saw this, even though its scale was much smaller, with Yugoslavia. The wars there lasted eight years and were probably far too complex - and I'm not being patronising but stating a fact - for people to try to follow.

Over here in France there is only one subject and it's not Ukraine.

[SirBob]

It’s almost as if Putin is using this war to ethnically cleanse Russia, so far most of those being killed are immigrants, convicts, contractors, ethnic minorities.the average age is something like 43.

The people most likely to protest have long since fled Russia. A large number of the population really don’t care about the soldiers being slaughtered and won’t until men from Moscow and St Petersburg get drafted.

The conscripts taken prisoner over the last few days will hit a little harder, young men 18/19 years old and from wealthier backgrounds.

[Hipper]

Reporting on the war is there if you want it. The BBC online news have a tab 'War in Ukraine':

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c1vw6q14rzqt

There's this site which was mentioned on here near the war's beginning which gives a daily military/political/media situation report as well as reports on other aspects of the war:

https://www.understandingwar.org/

Of course the war has been pretty boring lately (apart from one or two noteworthy events) with continued Russian slow progress and that's perhaps why mainline media has not reported it too much.

[bfcjg]

America has raised serious concerns regarding Iran supplying Russia with hundreds of missiles. American strike force rushing to the area to assist Israel but vould it also enforce a UN mandate re weapons going to Russia, this could get really serious if Russia goes in to help Iran. Recently Russia and Israel were quite close, which is why Israel only supplied limited defensive munitions to Ukraine, this may well change.

[Hipper]

Russian dead now 70,000 plus:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjr3255gpjgo

.. and more on Russia's manpower situation - see first paragraph:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... er-19-2024

[Colburn_Claret]

It's sad, but painfully obvious to everyone outside Russia, that there are 2 classes of Russians. The White Russians, and the cannon fodder East of the Urals. Blinding old men working for peanuts, to sign up 'voluntarily' for military service, on contracts many claimed they didn't understand when they signed them. The average age of dying combatants being between 40 and 50. It could never happen in any western power.

The reason being of course, is that Putin is fighting this war, whilst protecting the White Russians from conscription, and the effects of war, and therefore keeping his power base happy. I've just come back from Turkey on holiday, and loads of Russians are happily on holiday, as remote from the conflict as we are in the UK.

The only way to weaken Putin is to break that little bubble because he would happily lose a million nobodies from the East than, 100,000 from Moscow or St. Petersburg. To do that we should allow Ukraine to deploy the long range weapons they've been crying out to use for 6 months or more. Unless the Russians that 'count' feel the pain of this war it has no hope of ending.

[bfcjg]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-russi ... 53345.html
Another game changer or will it make any difference?

[Vegas Claret]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-russi ... 53345.html
Another game changer or will it make any difference?

Russia is a bluff agent, the fact Putin has been scrounging around for bullets, missiles and personnel just backs that up. This should have happened 2 years ago.

[NewClaret]

Russia is a bluff agent, the fact Putin has been scrounging around for bullets, missiles and personnel just backs that up. This should have happened 2 years ago.

Couldn’t agree more, Vegas. No idea how many unnecessary Ukrainian military and civilian deaths there have been over the last 1000 days that could’ve been avoided had this been allowed on day 1.

My only hope is that the Russians have become so complacent that this decision would never come, that they’ve moved a lot of their kit in range.

Tentative reports of a few strikes this evening around the time of the announcement. I hope having taken this long to decide they at least gave them forewarning to plan a response that would maximise impact before the Russians shift it all back.

My only hope is th

[Dark Cloud]

Unfortunately, like much of the west's aid for the embattled Ukrainians, it's probably all too late. Full of good intentions, but dithering and trying to get a consensus amongst 20 or 30 nations, including the US just means everything is so laboured and slow to arrive and therefore Russia constantly has the initiative sadly.

[Stonehouse]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-russi ... 53345.html
Another game changer or will it make any difference?

Apparently can only be used as self defence according to today’s papers.

[NewClaret]

Apparently can only be used as self defence according to today’s papers.

I think what that means is, they could blow up a military base or ammo store with them but not attack Moscow for instance.

Which is part of the problem: Russia knows they can continue with awful tactics - hitting critical infrastructure/ without any real reprisals.

[NewClaret]

Although having said that, they do now seem to have a good domestic drone production capability and are allegedly developing missiles too, so hopefully they will help.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I notice another famous Putin critic managed to fall from a fifth floor balcony over the weekend.

[bfcjg]

I read an article earlier that suggested the latest gesture from America and the West if we follow suit will more than likely speed up a diplomatic end, hope so but not really sure how.

[Nonayforever]

I read an article earlier that suggested the latest gesture from America and the West if we follow suit will more than likely speed up a diplomatic end, hope so but not really sure how.

That must be Trumps ace up his sleeve. Let Biden take the flak, walk away with a brown envelope and then Trump arrives on the scene and hey presto sorts things out.

[Vegas Claret]

I read an article earlier that suggested the latest gesture from America and the West if we follow suit will more than likely speed up a diplomatic end, hope so but not really sure how.

I think the hope is this will help Ukraine either lose less land or regain a little so Putin has less negotiating power. I'll not make my thoughts on Trump on here because it is important to keep the thread going... but I'm sure you can figure it out.

[ecc]

The whole situation looks bleak.

Read an article the other day (French media) about how the Russians are getting round the sanctions. There's only so much the EU can do in this respect.

The Russians have several allies in that area including Hungary who are inside the EU.

The cost of arming Ukraine is weakening a vast number of its allies. France, Germany and the UK are all facing a massive challenge with regard to reducing national debt.

We all know what will happen in the States come January.

How long will Zelensky continue to have the support of his people especially in the two largest cities that are relatively safe from Russian attacks but who are suffering from the war on the other side of the country?

It's very difficult to see anything other than a peace deal which satisfies the Russians more than Ukraine.

[NewClaret]

Sadly, agree with ecc, it’s looking more and more like Putin is going to get away with invading and terrorising a country.

The West have been weak and Putin can see that and is taking advantage of a dithering and delay. The move to allow weapons to hit military targets inside Russia should’ve been done on day 1 not 1000 and then we’d have saved countless lives.

I just hope between now and January the Ukrainians can hit and destroy a lot of their military infrastructure/supplies because Putin will come again for another part of Europe so the more they destroy now the further away that time will be.

[ecc]

Unfortunately, like much of the west's aid for the embattled Ukrainians, it's probably all too late. Full of good intentions, but dithering and trying to get a consensus amongst 20 or 30 nations, including the US just means everything is so laboured and slow to arrive and therefore Russia constantly has the initiative sadly.

Whilst you're not wrong I do feel there's a fundamental difference between a dictatorship and democracy. Putin just does what he wants. Full stop.
The "allies" are democratic countries that must comply with constitutions/ legal frameworks.

Whereas the West has refrained from sending troops into Ukraine, Moscow has no worries about using North Korean troops in that country.

This man reminds me so much of Hitler and Stalin and, more recently, Milosevic and Bashar al-Assad. They are answerable to nobody and will go to the bitter end.

There is another major issue: the West is going to have to foot a colossal bill to try to rebuild Ukraine's infrastructure and many towns and areas of larger cities. Even if the war ended tomorrow, this process will be a huge burden for the West for years to come.

[Vegas Claret]

Whilst you're not wrong I do feel there's a fundamental difference between a dictatorship and democracy. Putin just does what he wants. Full stop.
The "allies" are democratic countries that must comply with constitutions/ legal frameworks.

Whereas the West has refrained from sending troops into Ukraine, Moscow has no worries about using North Korean troops in that country.

This man reminds me so much of Hitler and Stalin and, more recently, Milosevic and Bashar al-Assad. They are answerable to nobody and will go to the bitter end.

There is another major issue: the West is going to have to foot a colossal bill to try to rebuild Ukraine's infrastructure and many towns and areas of larger cities. Even if the war ended tomorrow, this process will be a huge burden for the West for years to come.

Don't we have a boat load of cash of frozen Russian assets to use ?

[Damo]

Do we think we will make it to January before the nukes start flying?

[Vegas Claret]

Do we think we will make it to January before the nukes start flying?

not much chance Putin launches nukes imho, he would lose the support of China and India and he can't afford to do that. This is all about giving Ukraine a stronger bargaining position.

[NewClaret]

Do we think we will make it to January before the nukes start flying?

Yes, he won’t launch nukes. Their nuclear arsenal and capabilities will be like everything else - way below what they claim which is why they’re relying on countries like NK to help them.