Southgate has resigned.

[Sproggy]

Nah, not having that. Obviously topping the group gives you a better chance of facing a lesser team in the first knockout game, but to get a clear path to the end without playing the big hitters in 3 tournaments was very lucky indeed.

We were 30 seconds away from being knocked out by the mighty Slovakia until Bellingham came up with an inventive way of producing our only shot on target up to that point. He's been lucky.

See the Nations league for what happens when he gets a combination of a tough group and no luck.

[dandeclaret]

Getting the easy side of this draw wasn’t in our hands though. We were reliant on Denmark not scoring a goal! We were incredibly lucky during this tournament.

No.... Denmark didn't score. They didn't do their job. That's not luck, that's them not being good enough.

Or were we unlukcy that Spain scored on the opposite side of your argument?

This is the problem, people twist everything...

Never beat a good side (Always an excuse, Germany not much cop, nor Holland or anybody else.... No credit for beating teams that beat good teams - just reputations over valued - Italy a poor side.... you don't get to a finals if you're a poor side)
Always on the easy side of the draw (Did their jobs, won the groups, in line with seedings)
WE (we???) have got miles better players than them..... massive overrating in play as usual.

Results outweigh everything "On paper".

2 finals in 4 years...... 2 finals in 58 years.

[yTib]

at least he's got one fan.

not sure any of the top division clubs in the 'big 5' european leagues will take a punt on him though.

[dandeclaret]

at least he's got one fan.

not sure any of the top division clubs in the 'big 5' european leagues will take a punt on him though.

He's delivered the best results of any England manager in my lifetime, and he's a decent human who understands team ethos, and the difference between right and wrong. A strong figurehead.

I couldn't care less whether England win tournaments or not to be honest, but I was pleased to see him disprove the usual nonsense around focusing on individuals, and the fallacy of having to have a Capello or Sven Goran Eriksson type appointment. You're going to be disappointed when you see the Spanish coaches background...

[yTib]

..the fallacy of having to have a Capello or Sven Goran Eriksson type appointment.

at least on that we're agreed.

but southgate was lucky. nothing more.

[Pearcey]

No.... Denmark didn't score. They didn't do their job. That's not luck, that's them not being good enough.

Or were we unlukcy that Spain scored on the opposite side of your argument?

This is the problem, people twist everything...

Never beat a good side (Always an excuse, Germany not much cop, nor Holland or anybody else.... No credit for beating teams that beat good teams - just reputations over valued - Italy a poor side.... you don't get to a finals if you're a poor side)
Always on the easy side of the draw (Did their jobs, won the groups, in line with seedings)
WE (we???) have got miles better players than them..... massive overrating in play as usual.

Results outweigh everything "On paper".

2 finals in 4 years...... 2 finals in 58 years.

We scraped past every game we played in this tournament against much weaker teams. We got to the final against Italy and sat back after going 1 up. We were drawing with Spain and he was going to bring Tripps and Gallagher on!! I really like Southgate but he’s a poor tactician who is incredibly negative. Hoping for someone who can get the best out of our world class attacking players.

[RVclaret]

at least on that we're agreed.

but southgate was lucky. nothing more.

I’d say he was the most unlucky English manager ever as all Saka needed to do was score from 12 yards with just the keeper to beat and he’d have won only our 2nd ever trophy. Seriously unlucky.

[Darthlaw]

No.... Denmark didn't score. They didn't do their job. That's not luck, that's them not being good enough.

Or were we unlukcy that Spain scored on the opposite side of your argument?

This is the problem, people twist everything...

Never beat a good side (Always an excuse, Germany not much cop, nor Holland or anybody else.... No credit for beating teams that beat good teams

To be fair to Southgate, the Holland win was a great performance against a good Holland side. Germany last time, not so much, as widely reported by the German media in the build up to Euro 2020(21).

It still doesn't balance the tepid performances against Serbia, Denmark, Slovenia and Slovakia in this tournament though. FWIW, I though this was Southgate's worst tournament though.

[kentonclaret]

Eddie Howe has often been talked of as being a future England manager but I suppose it depends upon how secure he feels his position is at Newcastle. There will be pressure this season as the owners will be expecting higher than a 7th placed finish, probably top 4. Problem being if he doesn’t go for it now the job may not become vacant for another 8 years and there are certainly some exceptional players to build a team around.

[CardyTheClaret]

Lee ******* Carsley is currently the second favourite for the job, behind Graham ******* Potter.

[Darthlaw]

Lee ******* Carsley is currently the second favourite for the job, behind Graham ******* Potter.

Unless Howe raises his hand, this is about the standard of English manager there is available.

Talk of Klopp or chequebook Pep is for dreamers.

[agreenwood]

Lee ******* Carsley is currently the second favourite for the job, behind Graham ******* Potter.

International football is a different beast. Plenty of big name managers have failed with their country, but there are examples of relatively low profile managers succeeding. Look at the guy who has just led Spain to 7 wins and the trophy.

There isn’t enough to work on systems and tactics, so it’s more about creating a good environment and utilising the strengths of your squad.

Maybe Lee ******* Carsley is a better fit than a higher profile name.

[ChorltonCharlie]

It’s been a weird tournament. It’s well known that we’ve reached the final without playing well, and that seems to be the opinion internationally, and not just on these shores. Southgate obviously has got a lot right, and if you can’t see that you’ve clearly got an agenda. He does deserve some credit for getting us to another final. Yet the history books show a talented bunch of individuals woefully out of form. Based on 90 minute games England have only won 3 of the last 12 games. It does appear that behind the scenes something hasn’t been right, and that GS has lost some of the magic that has made him a relative success.

At times under GS you could say England have been flat track bullies, but that’s definitely not been the case recently. I don’t think this helped the team in the latter stages of Euro 24. You’re not going to win every game by several clear goals, but the odd performance like this builds belief and confidence within the team. In 2018 we dispatched Panama 6-1, then in 2021 there was the 4-0 defeat of Ukraine. 2022 isn’t seen as a vintage tournament, but Wales, Iran and Senegal were all beaten comfortably.

Southgate deserves a lot of credit for what he’s done, but it is the right time for him to go. He’s hopefully laid the foundations for someone else to go and have success. We need a lot of what he’s brought to the role combined with a more front footed approach and remove some of the fear that seems to have held us back in the biggest games. Hopefully he’s going to remind the FA that often the most successful international managers don’t have a great club reputation. It does make me think that having played for England may be a good pre-requisite. It seemed to serve Southgate well knowing the pressure in the team. There’s a couple of big name ex-players who could be ideally suited for international football. Gerrard’s success at Rangers shows he can win a lot of games and international football has a bit in common with managing Rangers. Most games comfortable favourites, and the odd game that’s a huge challenge. It also shouldn’t be forgotten how well his Rangers side did in Europe. Lampard is another and is probably more statesman than Gerrard in the way GS has been. I wouldn’t have either anywhere near the Burnley job, but it is a completely different role.

[basil6345789]

Did ok but stayed a long time. Not a bullshi**er.

[dougcollins]

Eddie Howe has often been talked of as being a future England manager but I suppose it depends upon how secure he feels his position is at Newcastle. There will be pressure this season as the owners will be expecting higher than a 7th placed finish, probably top 4. Problem being if he doesn’t go for it now the job may not become vacant for another 8 years and there are certainly some exceptional players to build a team around.

I think Howe is reportedly paid twice what Southgate is currently paid.

I just don't see him going for this. Potter may be the only one who would want it.

[Ric_C]

Teams we have beaten in major tournaments under Southgate (without the need for pens):

Tunisia, Panama, Sweden, Croatia, Czechia, Germany, Ukraine, Iran, Wales, Senegal, Serbia, Slovakia, Netherlands

Teams we have beaten on pens: Columbia, Switzerland

Teams we have lost to on pens: Italy

Teams that we lost to: Spain, France, Croatia, Belgium(twice)

So you could argue that out of all the wins under Southgate, we've beaten Germany, Croatia and Netherlands in even rubbers

[Papabendi]

Look forward to what the next England manager does. According to some on here, winning finals will be a doddle.

The players simply aren't as good as some think. They are good, none are great.

My guess is we won't reach another final for a while - and most of these players will be coming towards their peak in the future too....

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Good luck to him
Outstanding tenure as England manager

I stopped watching them before he became manager because the previous managers and teams were just utter toss and struggled to reach the QFs, eriksson, capello, McLaren all failed to do half of what Southgate did

He raised the standard of what fans expect, he made the entire culture around the squad much better
We even became better at penalties

Whoever takes over has big shoes to fill because fans will be expecting the team to reach the QFs as a minimum but also regular forays into SFs and finals now, along with the pretty football to boot and that isn’t always easy to do

[yTib]

i think bellingham has the potential to be great.

he is freakishly strong for 21 and has great technique.

[Pearcey]

Look forward to what the next England manager does. According to some on here, winning finals will be a doddle.

The players simply aren't as good as some think. They are good, none are great.

My guess is we won't reach another final for a while - and most of these players will be coming towards their peak in the future too....

Foden, premier league player of the season.
Bellingham, ballon D’Or candidate.
Kane, unbelievable goal scorer.
We have multiple top flight and champions league winners.
It’s not unreasonable to expect better performances is it?
Or course we’re not going to breeze through and win, but it would be nice to see us in a system that allows players to have a go. We have a losers mentality.

[Dyched]

Croatia population 3.85 million. England population 56 million.

When did China win the world cup mate?

[boatshed bill]

at least on that we're agreed.

but southgate was lucky. nothing more.

I suppose his last 5 predecessors were unlucky, then

[expoultryboy]

A question to the Southgate supporters - did you actually enjoy/understand any of his tactics in this competition ?
I personally think he was to close to many of the players , it was as though he was a friend not a manager .
In the two friendlies we played before we went , the two stand out players (imo) were Grealish and Wharton - what happened to them ?
First two games , experiments with Trent !
Kane admits they don't practice "the press "
Gordon gets 5 minutes - plays well , then not seen again.
Not replaced Kalvin Phillips
Toney comes on in 89th minute
Kane starts every game
Etc etc etc

[yTib]

kane looked like he was carrying hod and walker looked like he was carrying kane.

the apologists for southgate must know something i don't.

[Jakubclaret]

It was pretty much a forgone conclusion him leaving anyway even if we'd beat Spain due to the amount of people that disliked the way he went about things. I'm not quite sure what some people expect he'd got us the closest we've been for some considerable time & I doubt the next manager will do much better but no doubt time will tell on that score. I suspect after abit the cycle will continue wanting the next manager gone & so on.

[yTib]

I'm not quite sure what some people expect

i expect an england manager to tell his team to GET AT 'EM.

not sit back and hope for the best. the amount of space in front of the attacking teams against us was infuriating.

[Sproggy]

Look forward to what the next England manager does. According to some on here, winning finals will be a doddle.

The players simply aren't as good as some think. They are good, none are great.

My guess is we won't reach another final for a while - and most of these players will be coming towards their peak in the future too....

Don't think anyone's said that.

If you think getting pumped at home 4-0 by Hungary or managing 1 shot on target in 90 minutes against Slovakia is good enough or that Kalvin Phillips is irreplaceable then I can understand your disappointment in seeing Southgate go. All most people are asking for is that the best players get picked, are played in their preferred positions and the team are set up to take advantage of their obvious strengths. After that there are no guarantees, it's football.

[Jakubclaret]

i expect an england manager to tell his team to GET AT 'EM.

not sit back and hope for the best. the amount of space in front of the attacking teams against us was infuriating.

That tactic would have never worked Spain & other teams are far too smart for that & would have adjusted accordingly. The simple truth is we just ain't good enough & some other teams have more quality.

[Papabendi]

A question to the Southgate supporters - did you actually enjoy/understand any of his tactics in this competition ?
I personally think he was to close to many of the players , it was as though he was a friend not a manager .
In the two friendlies we played before we went , the two stand out players (imo) were Grealish and Wharton - what happened to them ?
First two games , experiments with Trent !
Kane admits they don't practice "the press "
Gordon gets 5 minutes - plays well , then not seen again.
Not replaced Kalvin Phillips
Toney comes on in 89th minute
Kane starts every game
Etc etc etc

Preferred it to leaving tournaments early

[yTib]

jakub we lost.

are you saying we could never have won anyway?

jakub for next england boss.

[Jakubclaret]

You are the 1 claiming to the answers not me.

[Papabendi]

Foden, premier league player of the season.
Bellingham, ballon D’Or candidate.
Kane, unbelievable goal scorer.
We have multiple top flight and champions league winners.
It’s not unreasonable to expect better performances is it?
Or course we’re not going to breeze through and win, but it would be nice to see us in a system that allows players to have a go. We have a losers mentality.

They aren’t the best players in their own teams, And they play with better (foreign) players in the main, not the rest of the England team for their club. In every decade we supposedly have the best players. We just don’t.

[yTib]

You are the 1 claiming to the answers not me.

That tactic would have never worked Spain & other teams are far too smart for that & would have adjusted accordingly.

as usual jakub. thick as beans.

[Jakubclaret]

as usual jakub. thick as beans.

Get at em the fantasy land of Mike Bassett. Spain are smart operators not from the dog & duck.

[yTib]

Get at em the fantasy land of dave Bassett. Spain are smart operators not from the dog & duck.

maybe so but it doesn't mean you can't close.

sitting back like miss daisy won't win you owt.

[Jakubclaret]

maybe so but it doesn't mean you can't close.

sitting back like miss daisy won't win you owt.

A 2-1 scoreline suggests different. It wasn't all 1 way traffic. Spain are a superior side at the end of the day whatever tactic deployed.

[summitclaret]

Getting the easy side of this draw wasn’t in our hands though. We were reliant on Denmark not scoring a goal! We were incredibly lucky during this tournament.

This. We were already through in 3rd place as a minimum, yet he didn't try to beat Slovakia to ensure we won the group and avoid the tough half.
Had Denmark won against Serbia we would have gone into the tough half. Terrible tactics.

[yTib]

A 2-1 scoreline suggests different. It wasn't all 1 way traffic. Spain are a superior side at the end of the day whatever tactic deployed.

did you watch us this tournament?

we were dreadful and the luckiest side i've ever seen.

if that's what you want from an england side then support scotland you silly boy.

[fanzone]

Southgate has achieved that much and done so well that the English FA will look to a foreign manager to better what he has managed to do over the last 4 tournaments.

As the old saying goes results over performances, although he never got us over the finish line he came close and I highly doubt the next few managers will achieve half he has.

[Pearcey]

They aren’t the best players in their own teams, And they play with better (foreign) players in the main, not the rest of the England team for their club. In every decade we supposedly have the best players. We just don’t.

I’m pretty sure they’re the best players in their positions for their clubs aren’t they? No one team has all the best players. Player quality wise we’re no worse than any other team in the world. Some are just better teams playing better football with better managers.

[Jakubclaret]

did you watch us this tournament?

we were dreadful and the luckiest side i've ever seen.

if that's what you want from an england side then support scotland you silly boy.

We are where we are I have no delusions about the state of the squad. We are a good team but not the best out there. I think some people refuse to accept others are just plain better & countless numbers of England manager that have failed are testament to that.

[Anonymous Claret]

Maybe he can get a job as a global health advisor with the WHO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=RU5ykKmGfco

[yTib]

I think some people refuse to accept others are just plain better & countless numbers of England manager that have failed are testament to that.

i don't think any sensible person would assume england are the best team.

but with a lollipop like southgate in charge england will never have that cutting edge.

[boatshed bill]

we were dreadful and the luckiest side i've ever seen.

Hyperbole at its finest.
We certainly weren't "dreadful".
Very few cup finalists ever are.
I'd accept pragmatic, unadventurous, even predictably boring... but not dreadful.

[Jakubclaret]

i don't think any sensible person would assume england are the best team.

but with a lollipop like southgate in charge england with never have that cutting edge.

Apart from an odd England manager previously nobody else has done better or come even close to that lollipop so I'm not sure what that is suggesting about the others. When so many other managers constantly fail it leaves you with the explanation that the playing side aren't good enough as the common denominator.

[yTib]

i don't mind failure i just don't like capitulation.

[Jakubclaret]

i don't mind failure i just don't like capitulation.

A final appearance & a 2-1 scoreline against a bloody good side surely means capitulation. I must have been imagining headers getting cleared off the line towards the end & Spanish time wasting.

[boatshed bill]

i don't mind failure i just don't like capitulation.

So being within the possiblity of an equalising goal right to the end of a major cup final is now to be seen as "capitulation".
You don't know the meaning of the word.

[Squidgy]

Quoonbeatz,

It's that fans'/media sense of entitlement that has sucked the joy out of watching England, as if only winning a tournament matters and anything else is a total failure, which is really ******* stupid. Hopefully whoever is next can get that back but they have a hell of a job on their hands.

For many of us winning a tournament was not the only thing that matters. Having a real go at winning one matters.
The joy of watching England was sucked out of millions of England fans by the utter dross served up. We have some great players but they fail to deliver on many occasions as it seems flair was coached out of them.
8 wins out of 25 against the Worlds top 10 (one of which is us!) says it all.

[yTib]

it really doesn't matter.

your hero has gone. no doubt to manage brentford or some arabic club.

such is his legend.