Welsh clubs targetting Europe

[claretburns]

The Welsh EFL clubs, Wrexham, Newport, Swansea and Cardiff, have began a proposal backed by FAW to be allowed to enter the Welsh League Cup with the winners of the cup entering the Europa Conference League.

The clubs and FAW have already presented their vision to UEFA, the Football Association, Premier League and clubs in the Cymru Premier, Wales’ domestic top flight. The Welsh clubs in their domestic top flight have already backed the proposal as it would, in their eyes, hopefully improve Wales' UEFA Co-Efficient, meaning more Welsh clubs qualify for Europe, and also from the prize money given by UEFA would help improve grassroots football in Wales to ultimately make their league stronger.

By doing this if one of the Welsh EFL clubs qualify for Europe via the English pyramid, such as when Swansea won the League Cup in 2013, this qualification would be denied they would only be allowed in Europe if they won the Welsh League Cup.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Want to have their cake and eat it I see. They want the money for Welsh European qualification but also English league money, hope they say no.

[claretburns]

Want to have their cake and eat it I see. They want the money for Welsh European qualification but also English league money, hope they say no.

Exactly my thoughts, let's say it goes ahead, they would still need to go through the qualifying rounds and then if they make it to the League stage, it could be adding up 12 games per season and if you look at a Cardiff this season who are struggling would they want to play away in Azerbaijan on Thursday night to then come home and play away at Sunderland on the Sunday, very unlikely.

[ecc]

Wonder which club is the driving force beyond this?

[HurstGrangeClaret]

Want to have their cake and eat it I see. They want the money for Welsh European qualification but also English league money, hope they say no.

Surely this is what all right thinking fans will be saying. The Welsh clubs can’t have it both ways.

[Dazzler]

Surely this is what all right thinking fans will be saying. The Welsh clubs can’t have it both ways.

They have before. They used to compete in the Welsh FA Cup where the winners qualified for the Cup Winners Cup.

Shrewsbury, Chester, Hereford & a few other English clubs also played in it but wouldn't qualify for Europe if they won the cup.

Shrewsbury won it one year but the runners-up Cardiff qualified for the cup winners cup.

[HurstGrangeClaret]

Thanks for that Dazzler. I had no idea that used to happen. why do the footballing authorities kowtow to these clubs.
All about fairness, and this isn’t fair.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Nah this ain’t gonna sit right with most football fans

We know why Wrexham will push for it, to keep the brand promotion going etc

Hypothetically, say one of them qualified for Europe via English competition, at the same time they get in via welsh competition , which spot would be handed to the next club?

Would the next welsh team get it, or the next English team?

It’s messy

[bfcjg]

I personally don't think as per Scottish teams, Welsh teams shouldn't be allowed to play in our leagues.

[claretburns]

Nah this ain’t gonna sit right with most football fans

We know why Wrexham will push for it, to keep the brand promotion going etc

Hypothetically, say one of them qualified for Europe via English competition, at the same time they get in via welsh competition , which spot would be handed to the next club?

Would the next welsh team get it, or the next English team?

It’s messy

If this goes ahead then they cannot qualify via English league or cups. If say a Welsh club qualifies via the English set up then I presume the qualifying place will go to the next placed team in Premier League.

[daveisaclaret]

This is a good initiative with clear benefits to Welsh clubs in the Welsh and English leagues and will have absolutely no impact on any English club.

[Spike]

Roberts is Welsh can we enter
Need to go back to their own league
Do the still fiddle players disciplinary matters ?

[Cirrus_Minor]

And if a Welsh player, for instance, accumulates yellow or a red card directly before a major cup final, then the WFA can then let him off any suspension. As if they would

[boyyanno]

This is a good initiative with clear benefits to Welsh clubs in the Welsh and English leagues and will have absolutely no impact on any English club.

Should not be allowed to happen in a million years.

It would give one of the Welsh clubs playing in England an advantage over anyone else in their respective division. They'd have received extra income, a raise in profile and be a more attractive proposition for potential signings than the English counterparts.

They can do this and leave the EFL for me but they can't do both.

[BurnleyFC]

Let the EFL teams enter the Welsh League Cup then.

[andyh]

I think it is time for the English FA and English Premier League to remove all non English clubs from our pyramid. Wales is a separate country in Football it should be enforced.

[yTib]

maybe the superstar owners of wrexham have looked into this and seen it as another way of improving exposure to their pet project.

whether that's the case or not it seems unfair to me to have two bites of the cherry.

i hope common sense prevails.

[Dazzler]

Nah this ain’t gonna sit right with most football fans

We know why Wrexham will push for it, to keep the brand promotion going etc

Hypothetically, say one of them qualified for Europe via English competition, at the same time they get in via welsh competition , which spot would be handed to the next club?

Would the next welsh team get it, or the next English team?

It’s messy

Nothing new there then. Had the same potential scenario when the Welsh league clubs competed in the Welsh FA Cup.

[sjb]

I think it is time for the English FA and English Premier League to remove all non English clubs from our pyramid. Wales is a separate country in Football it should be enforced.

Absolutely this. I've said it for years. See how long Reynolds would hang around if this happened.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

This is a good initiative with clear benefits to Welsh clubs in the Welsh and English leagues and will have absolutely no impact on any English club.

Apart from the Welsh clubs in the English leagues getting additional European income.

[ISpeds00]

who cares - give it em
They wont get far

[ecc]

maybe the superstar owners of wrexham have looked into this and seen it as another way of improving exposure to their pet project.

whether that's the case or not it seems unfair to me to have two bites of the cherry.

i hope common sense prevails.

No, they wouldn't do something like that, would they?

[Vegas Claret]

kick them out of the EFL

[Vegas Claret]

am I remembering this right ? - didn't Cardiff have a player sent off and they appealed it to the Welsh FA so he could play against us years ago ? They should have been booted out of the EFL there and then

[claretburns]

am I remembering this right ? - didn't Cardiff have a player sent off and they appealed it to the Welsh FA so he could play against us years ago ? They should have been booted out of the EFL there and then

Nearly correct. Darren Purse was sent off for them against us on the last game of the season in 2008, studs up shocking challenge on Andy Cole who then preceded to chase him up the tunnel.

Cardiff still had the FA Cup Final to play and so appealed the red card to the Welsh FA who overturned it.

[Dazzler]

From 1965 through to 1995 one of the big four Welsh clubs competed in the European Cup Winners' Cup, by qualifying via the Welsh FA Cup when they also competed in the English FA Cup.

As I've already stated, this debate is nothing new.

[Vegas Claret]

Nearly correct. Darren Purse was sent off for them against us on the last game of the season in 2008, studs up shocking challenge on Andy Cole who then preceded to chase him up the tunnel.

Cardiff still had the FA Cup Final to play and so appealed the red card to the Welsh FA who overturned it.

cheers, I knew we were part of it somehow

[CoolClaret]

Boot them out of the English league then.

[Pearcey]

I remember when Darren Purse took a chunk out of Andy Cole and still got to play in the FA Cup Final because of something to do with the Welsh FA. Dodgy old lot!

[jrgbfc]

Is having extra games on a 46 game season really an advantage? Potentially having to trek to somewhere like Kazahkstan on a Thursday night. I can't imagine its a great money spinner either.

[claretburns]

Is having extra games on a 46 game season really an advantage? Potentially having to trek to somewhere like Kazahkstan on a Thursday night. I can't imagine its a great money spinner either.

I mentioned this point further up the thread. Welsh teams would enter at the first qualifying round, so means games from early July and need to play 8 qualifying games just to get to the group stage then a further 6 group stage games so if a Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham or Newport make it to the group stage it is already a minimum 14 extra games in the season without much of a break in the summer for their players with the early start in qualifying games.

Based on the prize money for this season if a Welsh club made it through to the group stage, which coincidentally TNS have done, it would give them roughly €4,800,000 in prize money income then the chance of earning €500,000 per group stage win or €166,000 per draw then further prize money if they get through to the knock out stages. Probably not to mention the added chance of sponsorship and TV money, so you can see why the Welsh teams would be in favour of it but as many have mentioned above in the thread for me you either play in the English league and qualify for Europe via the English route or go and play your league games in Wales, can't have it both ways.

[Robbie_painter]

Apart from the Welsh clubs in the English leagues getting additional European income.

Better off just ignoring him pal to be honest chats absolute bonk.

[RickyBobby]

People seem to be forgetting that TNS who have gotten into a European group stage through the welsh league system are an english club.

[quoonbeatz]

Not really something to be bothered about this. The conference league qualifiers are hardly moneyspinners and they won’t be getting further than that.

[TheOriginalLongsider]

People seem to be forgetting that TNS who have gotten into a European group stage through the welsh league system are an english club.

Not quite. They were successful as Llansantffraid before merging with Oswestry who were a smaller club.

I remember the Welsh cup when some border clubs such as Chester, Shrewsbury and Hereford were invited to compete. Occasionally it ended up with 3 English clubs in the last 4 and if there were no welsh clubs in the final then qualification would go to the Welsh team that got furthest in the competition. I don’t see anything wrong with the new proposal

[Pearcey]

I remember when Darren Purse took a chunk out of Andy Cole and still got to play in the FA Cup Final because of something to do with the Welsh FA. Dodgy old lot!

Obviously didn’t read the earlier posts!

[dvalley69]

Why did Chester, Shrewsbury and Hereford stop being involved?

[claretburns]

Why did Chester, Shrewsbury and Hereford stop being involved?

If the English team won the cup they couldn't qualify for Europe so I suppose in the end the extra games weren't worth it.

[The Hung Juror]

I personally don't think as per Scottish teams, Welsh teams shouldn't be allowed to play in our leagues.

I tend to agree, but an English club Berwick Rangers, for many years have played in the Scottish leagues. Used to play in Scottish League 2 now in the Lowland League.

[timshorts]

Why did Chester, Shrewsbury and Hereford stop being involved?

Because Alan ******* Jones and his cronies decreed that anybody playing in an English administered league could not enter and so Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham, merthyr, Rhyl, Bangor City, Colwyn Bay, Caernarfon Town, and all those English clubs that you mentioned were booted out.

That (and other blazer-made decisions) then led to some of them having to play league games in England - Newport went to Moreton-le-Marsh, for instance. It got very heated, and some of the clubs ended up having to give up and eventually play in the Welsh league, and virtual oblivion.

There are a few on here confusing league and cup. This is effectively a Welsh Cup winners euro place that would end up going to Swansea rather than to, say afan lido, so it would mean that one of the Welsh league teams would lose the opportunity to be hammered in bosnia and be replaced by a Welsh team that plays in an English league.

And the Welsh fa are no more lenient than the English fa. Actually, the arrangement is a pain in the arse as signing a player from, say, Cinderford town or Hereford means having to get International clearance, even if the player is welsh, but needs must.

This sounds like a long overdue climb down by the Welsh fa. It's only taken about 30 years for them to work out that their self-indulgent anal attitude has cost football in Wales dearly, particularly for those clubs on the border that got the chance to have a good crowd when they drew Shrewsbury, Newport, Chester and the likes. If there is money to be made here, it is going to be more advantageous proprtionately to the smaller clubs getting to play, say, newport than anything Wrexham would likely make by getting to play valetta of Malta. That is the rather more likely reason for the climb down.

[ŽižkovClaret]

And the Welsh fa are no more lenient than the English fa. Actually, the arrangement is a pain in the arse as signing a player from, say, Cinderford town or Hereford means having to get International clearance, even if the player is welsh, but needs must.

The Darren Purse overturned red card, for one, suggests otherwise.....

[daveisaclaret]

God knows why so many English have to have a stick up their arse about this. The Darren Purse thing hasn't been a problem for at least ten years. Burnley fans getting agitated that getting paid to go and lose to Vikingur Reykjavik or Astana will be a huge boon for Swansea City.

[ŽižkovClaret]

God knows why so many English have to have a stick up their arse about this. The Darren Purse thing hasn't been a problem for at least ten years. Burnley fans getting agitated that getting paid to go and lose to Vikingur Reykjavik or Astana will be a huge boon for Swansea City.

They need to s**t or get off the pot. If they want to play in the Welsh cup, and represent Wales in Europe, they can play in the Welsh League.

If that means we need to accept TNS aka Oswestry into the English leagues, so be it.

[daveisaclaret]

They need to s**t or get off the pot. If they want to play in the Welsh cup, and represent Wales in Europe, they can play in the Welsh League.

If that means we need to accept TNS aka Oswestry into the English leagues, so be it.

There is no reason to think this. It is silly and trivial.

[jrgbfc]

God knows why so many English have to have a stick up their arse about this. The Darren Purse thing hasn't been a problem for at least ten years. Burnley fans getting agitated that getting paid to go and lose to Vikingur Reykjavik or Astana will be a huge boon for Swansea City.

Especially when so many of our fans weren't bothered about being in the Europa league because we couldn't cope with the "extra workload", now all of a sudden its a huge advantage! Personally i couldn't care less.

[Rileybobs]

God knows why so many English have to have a stick up their arse about this. The Darren Purse thing hasn't been a problem for at least ten years. Burnley fans getting agitated that getting paid to go and lose to Vikingur Reykjavik or Astana will be a huge boon for Swansea City.

There's still a lot of brexity folk about.

[Devils_Advocate]

It sounds like a very good idea however if this happens and one of the EFL Welsh teams qualifies for Europe I think the English FA need to help out and show some flexibility around their fixture list. I would expect they would get a bye into the 3rd round of the League cup so that would definitely help.

[timshorts]

They need to s**t or get off the pot. If they want to play in the Welsh cup, and represent Wales in Europe, they can play in the Welsh League.

If that means we need to accept TNS aka Oswestry into the English leagues, so be it.

Why? This seems to be much too "little Englandy". There is already a precedent for this type of arrangement with vaduz qualifying for Liechtenstein but playing in Switzerland, Monaco is not in France. Etc.

Why bankrupt Berwick, tns etc for no good reason? And what are you going to do with Chester who have one goal in Wales?

[ŽižkovClaret]

Why? This seems to be much too "little Englandy". There is already a precedent for this type of arrangement with vaduz qualifying for Liechtenstein but playing in Switzerland, Monaco is not in France. Etc.

Why bankrupt Berwick, tns etc for no good reason? And what are you going to do with Chester who have one goal in Wales?

You're being negative. Think about the boost the Welsh League will get with Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport etc added to their league. It will be the new SPL in no time

[claretburns]

Reports stating that it is definitely Swansea who are driving this proposal but needed the backing of Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham to make it work.