What is the Game Plan?

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ClaretAL
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What is the Game Plan?

Post by ClaretAL » Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:40 am

Now we have all calmed down a little, a genuine question.

One of the best parts of watching a match live versus TV, is you can see the movement off the ball and also what we are trying to do as a team when certain spaces are created by the movement of the whole team ,and also players understanding where their teammates would be without having to look.
With Dyche we knew when the ball was going to go long just by the positioning of Midfield and where the striker was.
With Kompany we knew that the pivot was in place and the zonal spaces where players had to leave or gain that space depending where the ball carrier was, which would eventually create gaping holes in the opposition, for the wingers to run in to for the switch of play or through ball.
With Parker I am struggling to see what method is. I am not digging Parker out here and it may just be I am missing it, so need educating as to what I am looking for, as there must be some kind of plan in place for to keep regenerating the ball to the back line, presumably looking for a move that signals the plan of attack?

superdimitri
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by superdimitri » Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:47 am

Structured football more like Dyche. Relying on individual players in attack rather then adjusting tactics. Plan b is usually just to replace one winger with another.

It's fine to play this way but if said players perform badly we're out of ideas.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by Mattster » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:01 am

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blatherwickstattoos
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by blatherwickstattoos » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:09 am

Not much of a high press. Not much of a dynamic style of football. It’s a slow possession based game that has the aim of tiring teams to the point we open them up. It’s going to test a lot of fans patience but parker won’t change his style.

I think if we can be anywhere near the top 6 come January and add a striker in we will have a chance.

Rowls
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by Rowls » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:12 am

superdimitri wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:47 am
Structured football more like Dyche. Relying on individual players in attack rather then adjusting tactics. Plan b is usually just to replace one winger with another.
Funny how we all watch the same games but have different opinions and ideas. To me, it's more like Kompany than Dyche, without being either.

In truth, the past half douzen games reminds me most of England under Southgate.
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by colner » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:19 am

Unfortunately it just reminds me of our days under Cotterill
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NewClaret
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by NewClaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:20 am

superdimitri wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:47 am
Structured football more like Dyche. Relying on individual players in attack rather then adjusting tactics. Plan b is usually just to replace one winger with another.

It's fine to play this way but if said players perform badly we're out of ideas.
I’d definitely agree that our structure is more similar to Dyche than Kompany.

We seem to be prioritising defensive structure (and it’s working).

Pires seems to be our main attacking force at the moment, both in terms of finding defence splitting passes and getting on the overlap. Also decent balls in when we don’t go short.

I think we’re missing an equivalent RB and someone really good in tight spaces in midfield.

People keep talking of Flemming in the 10 and I appreciate that’s the position he played for Millwall but he’s looked more a 9 to me. I’d like to see him up top and a creative 10 that can turn in tight spaces and thread passes. Ramsey might be the answer - hope he’s not too far off. Ditto Tresor.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by NewClaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:22 am

Rowls wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:12 am
In truth, the past half douzen games reminds me most of England under Southgate.
I wouldn’t say we’ve been that bad…
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by Boss Hogg » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:23 am

Slow possession based and I’d agree about England under Southgate. Think there are player positional changes required for it to be more effective but for it it needs a more dynamic striker. It isn’t working with Foster whether we are currently playing to his strengths or not. It’s good to see we can keep games tight but it’s a hard watch going forward.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by ChorltonCharlie » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:27 am

Just made the same comparison with England on another thread. Parker like Southgate seems to value defensive structure a lot. Like Southgate, some of the other things we do seem to be a bit emperors new clothes. Invite the press to try and beat it without knowing why we're really doing it, or how we're meant to beat it. Everyone else is doing it, so must we.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:42 am

Rowls is right to me, it does feel a bit like Safegate’s England.

A lot of talent (for this level) which feels in a bit of a straightjacket, few overloads and few risks in possession.

It’ll get us up there, no doubt, but it has to get us top two and then keep us up.

What I would say though is that points lost from winning positions is excellent, with 16 pts from 18. That is in stark contrast from last year’s team and also is what we would expect from Parker so we should expect it to continue. Other sides are 100% in this regard (WBA, Watford) but that won’t last, it may for us.

In 22/23 we lost 19 pts from winning positions.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by RVclaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:44 am

Need to see us after around 15 games to see the proper Parkerball. I was semi-excited by it after Cadiz, Luton and Cardiff, after he’d had a clear run at pre season. Having to start a second pre season 3 games in means we took a backwards step (or two) tactically in my view. Since then it’s been a focus on being defensively sound to get results, and, well, it’s worked.

Currently we sit 3rd in the league for chances against us (as in, 3rd lowest amount, and the diff to 1st is marginal), and 3rd bottom for chances created. So from here it can go a few ways:

1. We get our key attacking summer signing in the team (Flemming), and someone who will likely be the most creative player in the league (Tresor), and as a result we become a more creative team. Add to this more time to gel for a new team. The result is more chances created and the chances created per game increases to a more sustainable level (Parker’s Bournemouth had more per game than Kompany’s Burnley) for an automatic push.

2. Nothing really changes from an attacking perspective, Parker is useless, statistical evidence of what he’s done before turns out to be a load of tosh, but we start conceding more chances and drop down the table as a result of the new imbalance.

3. Everything stays the exact same and we continue grinding out results and this discussion happens after every other game.
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by BleedingClaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:45 am

Simply not mixing it up
or
playing to our own strengths
So predictable
Makes it easy for the opposition to hem us in and puts their defence under no serious pressure at all despite the fact we have fast players up front that should with quick probing balls, as with Muric & THB to Tella, their worst nightmare
Need to take the shackles off, defensive players are subdued by a rigid passing regime, midfielders get slow ball whilst closely marked
Wingers and attackers are frustrated
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by CoolClaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:52 am

RVclaret wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:44 am
Need to see us after around 15 games to see the proper Parkerball. I was semi-excited by it after Cadiz, Luton and Cardiff, after he’d had a clear run at pre season. Having to start a second pre season 3 games in means we took a backwards step (or two) tactically in my view. Since then it’s been a focus on being defensively sound to get results, and, well, it’s worked.

Currently we sit 3rd in the league for chances against us (as in, 3rd lowest amount, and the diff to 1st is marginal), and 3rd bottom for chances created. So from here it can go a few ways:

1. We get our key attacking summer signing in the team (Flemming), and someone who will likely be the most creative player in the league (Tresor), and as a result we become a more creative team. Add to this more time to gel for a new team. The result is more chances created and the chances created per game increases to a more sustainable level (Parker’s Bournemouth had more per game than Kompany’s Burnley) for an automatic push.

2. Nothing really changes from an attacking perspective, Parker is useless, statistical evidence of what he’s done before turns out to be a load of tosh, but we start conceding more chances and drop down the table as a result of the new imbalance.

3. Everything stays the exact same and we continue grinding out results and this discussion happens after every other game.
Good post RV. Agree with all of that.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by AGENT_CLARET » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:56 am

Away 4-2-3-1

Foster up front on his own, switch at half time with Flemming if Foster has done nothing in the first 45 mins

At Home it's got to be 100% 4-4-2

With both Flemming and Foster in the front two but with Flemming slightly behind Foster, we can't play dull negative football at home against anyone in this league because we have the players to hurt any team if the right formation is played
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by IanMcL » Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:00 am

In the Championship, there are lots of mistakes. Two up front capitalises. 1 not quite up front, is pointless. Winger beats man and sees box full of defenders and one of ours on the edge of the box. What's the point?
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by agreenwood » Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:43 am

In the first few games, the game plan appeared to be to keep possession in our half, draw them in to press us and then utilise the space in behind we’d created by bringing the oppo up the pitch.

I’m less clear what the game plan is now because either we don’t look to play that ball in to the space behind the oppo defence, even when it appears to be on, or our front three don’t position themselves to do it. We just end up in an endless cycle of moving the ball around in our own half.

It was disappointing on Saturday just how deep Koleosho, Anthony and Foster found themselves at times. I thought the prime example was when the PNE full back found himself isolated against Roberts and Anthony and the latter could have been played in. However, he never anticipated the position we were in, didn’t make the run and Roberts ended up playing the ball out for a goal kick.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by jollyjack » Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:58 am

Parker made a bit of the idea of different styles/tactics v different opposition during his early interviews. Whether that was a way of saying "I'll see how it goes and maybe try something sometime" or not remains to be seen. So far home and away against different types of teams we've not seen a lot of versatility in approach.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by Ric_C » Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:58 am

I agree with Ian on this one. Looking at the players we have at our disposal we really need to find a way of getting more bodies in the box. Pretty much all our wingers are wide players rather than wide forwards, so we need to give them the option of creating a yard and whipping the ball into danger areas. I would be really tempted to go two up top and have Flemming dropping deeper if we go ahead to create a 4-5-1

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by Funkydrummer » Mon Oct 07, 2024 12:23 pm

I know exactly what was wrong, but unfortunately it was down to lady luck.

We played the wrong way in the 1st half !!!!! That's all it is. :D :D

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by quoonbeatz » Mon Oct 07, 2024 12:35 pm

“Just go out there and enjoy yourself, lads.”

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by Goliath » Mon Oct 07, 2024 12:51 pm

agreenwood wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:43 am
In the first few games, the game plan appeared to be to keep possession in our half, draw them in to press us and then utilise the space in behind we’d created by bringing the oppo up the pitch.

I’m less clear what the game plan is now because either we don’t look to play that ball in to the space behind the oppo defence, even when it appears to be on, or our front three don’t position themselves to do it. We just end up in an endless cycle of moving the ball around in our own half.

It was disappointing on Saturday just how deep Koleosho, Anthony and Foster found themselves at times. I thought the prime example was when the PNE full back found himself isolated against Roberts and Anthony and the latter could have been played in. However, he never anticipated the position we were in, didn’t make the run and Roberts ended up playing the ball out for a goal kick.
It's probably more a case of teams clocked on to it pretty quickly. It's pretty obvious that if you give us loads of space in behind then Koleosho and Foster become much bigger threats.

These issues were apparent very early in the season but a few of us got shouted down for suggesting there doesn't seem to be a big plan in possession in terms of what to after we've attracted the press.

Under Kompany it was really clear that we were trying to get wingers one v one and we had a plan on how to do it. Under Parker it's a lot less clear
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by daveisaclaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:11 pm

"What soon developed was a conflicted tactical style: long hoofs up to Mitrovic; backward passes; wingers terrified of the wing; full backs imprisoned in their own halves. What developed was an utter reliance on moments of brilliance: 30-yard screamers, solo dribbling efforts, or Mitrovic goals, dispersed thinly across hours of maddening build-up play.

For fans, Parkerball is a unique brand of footballing misery. It is slow and primitive, especially away from home. It is consistently inconsistent."

Written by a Fulham fan, February 2020. Just seen this on Twitter and it's awfully familiar.
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:34 pm

It really isn't.
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by Goliath » Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:36 pm

daveisaclaret wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:11 pm
"What soon developed was a conflicted tactical style: long hoofs up to Mitrovic; backward passes; wingers terrified of the wing; full backs imprisoned in their own halves. What developed was an utter reliance on moments of brilliance: 30-yard screamers, solo dribbling efforts, or Mitrovic goals, dispersed thinly across hours of maddening build-up play.

For fans, Parkerball is a unique brand of footballing misery. It is slow and primitive, especially away from home. It is consistently inconsistent."

Written by a Fulham fan, February 2020. Just seen this on Twitter and it's awfully familiar.
I haven't given much thought to Fulham or Bournemouth opinion on Parker but this made me have a quick look on the Fulham forum. Wasn't much there but I did come across a discussion about Felix Mcgath. There were a few comments suggesting he's the worst manager they've ever had along with our very own Scott Parker and Lawrie Sanchez.

It is slightly worrying that they disliked him to such an extent. I'm starting to wonder if we've had the best of him in terms of getting us a more solid and together squad and we may need someone else to then go and take it on in a more progressive manner at some point in the not too distant future.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by NewClaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:50 pm

Goliath wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:36 pm
I haven't given much thought to Fulham or Bournemouth opinion on Parker but this made me have a quick look on the Fulham forum. Wasn't much there but I did come across a discussion about Felix Mcgath. There were a few comments suggesting he's the worst manager they've ever had along with our very own Scott Parker and Lawrie Sanchez.

It is slightly worrying that they disliked him to such an extent. I'm starting to wonder if we've had the best of him in terms of getting us a more solid and together squad and we may need someone else to then go and take it on in a more progressive manner at some point in the not too distant future.
This is the exact problem I fear for him.

When you look at his record in Belgium he didn’t lose a lot, he just drew a lot.

I don’t know whether he realises it or not, but there is no way on gods green earth that our fans will accept drawing a lot this season. No way. Nor will Alan or ALK because the financial situation is such that I imagine they’re under a lot of pressure and also know that no promotion this season lowers your chances significantly.

What he will probably have realised by now is that he doesn’t have a Mitrovic or Solanke in Foster, so he is going to have to adapt his style and rapido to one that gets goals from everyone: full backs, defenders, midfielders, wingers.

Posted elsewhere but I think he could just make his life so much simpler and buy himself a lot of time with some really simple fixes focussed on being more positive with the possession we have, getting the ball higher up and putting their defence under more pressure.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by Colburn_Claret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:52 pm

As others have said, not enough bodies in the box.

So many teams we have played this season, are happy to knock the ball into the box, regardless of whether they know they have a man in there.
Balls in the box can cause lots of unforeseen issues, a bad bounce, a lucky deflection, the second ball, defender/goalkeeper error. To see us have so much possession, and yet look frightened of putting a simple ball into the box is really painful, and dull. On the face of it it is such a simple fix, but 4 games in a row and we don't appear to be doing anything different.

Message to Scott, if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, in the hope of a different outcome, you have lost the plot. You've done brilliant to have us where we are, from a turmoil many would have walked away from, but we cannot go on like this last 4 games or we will be way off the automatic spots very very soon.
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by NewClaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:58 pm

Goliath wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 12:51 pm
Under Kompany it was really clear that we were trying to get wingers one v one and we had a plan on how to do it. Under Parker it's a lot less clear
We almost seem to build up in a way that means they’re 2/3 markers, then they cut inside and run at the markers. If you go outside there you generally take the one or two doubling/trebling up out of the game and get 1v1.

No guarantees the cross will reach its intended target but you typically win a corner or cause some fear at the heart of their defence.

I’d like to see more of that, plus runners in the box of course.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by RVclaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:20 pm

From a Bournemouth fan I spoke to:

‘His way of playing isn’t too dissimilar to Kompany in terms of build up in 1st and 2nd phase. Won’t need huge squad turnover. It’s controlled football, you’ll be secure most games. Yes it’s not rock and roll but it’s sustainable. Promoted.

He was always an excellent tactician. Through the noise of the timeline & how it ended, it got lost

Could it happen again at Burnley? Yep- but will he be tactically astute enough to get them promoted? Yep’

Interesting and contrasting view to the Fulham related post
Last edited by RVclaret on Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by quoonbeatz » Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:20 pm

daveisaclaret wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:11 pm
"What soon developed was a conflicted tactical style: long hoofs up to Mitrovic; backward passes; wingers terrified of the wing; full backs imprisoned in their own halves. What developed was an utter reliance on moments of brilliance: 30-yard screamers, solo dribbling efforts, or Mitrovic goals, dispersed thinly across hours of maddening build-up play.

For fans, Parkerball is a unique brand of footballing misery. It is slow and primitive, especially away from home. It is consistently inconsistent."

Written by a Fulham fan, February 2020. Just seen this on Twitter and it's awfully familiar.
Not sure it is familiar, there haven’t been any moments of brilliance to rely on of late.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by burnley007 » Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:26 pm

I have no idea what the Game Plan is.

But it's getting harder to stay awake for the full 90 minutes atm.

The midfield 3 are so painful to watch together, none of them are capable of opening a compact defence, yet we keep on doing the same thing, expecting a different result.

Starting to think the Bournemouth, Fulham and Brugge fans were right about Parker. I'm not looking forward to matches again for the 1st time since the end of the Dyche era.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:28 pm

burnley007 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:26 pm
I have no idea what the Game Plan is.

But it's getting harder to stay awake for the full 90 minutes atm.

The midfield 3 are so painful to watch together, none of them are capable of opening a compact defence, yet we keep on doing the same thing, expecting a different result.

Starting to think the Bournemouth, Fulham and Brugge fans were right about Parker. I'm not looking forward to matches again for the 1st time since the end of the Dyche era.
Fair play to you getting through last season looking forward to all the games

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by ChorltonCharlie » Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:35 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:52 pm
As others have said, not enough bodies in the box.

So many teams we have played this season, are happy to knock the ball into the box, regardless of whether they know they have a man in there.
Balls in the box can cause lots of unforeseen issues, a bad bounce, a lucky deflection, the second ball, defender/goalkeeper error. To see us have so much possession, and yet look frightened of putting a simple ball into the box is really painful, and dull. On the face of it it is such a simple fix, but 4 games in a row and we don't appear to be doing anything different.

Message to Scott, if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, in the hope of a different outcome, you have lost the plot. You've done brilliant to have us where we are, from a turmoil many would have walked away from, but we cannot go on like this last 4 games or we will be way off the automatic spots very very soon.
On Saturday early on there was a great example of our problems in this this regard. There'd been some build up play and Anthony had the ball wide. He did cross, but even after delaying we only had two men in the box. The only one really in an attacking position was Foster. The other lad (can't remember if Hannibal or Koleosho) almost was making the numbers up. Cross came to nothing.

Couple of minutes later, similar build up from PNE. By the time they put the cross in there were 4 or 5 attackers in the box. We won the header, but the ball dropped to give McCann a half chance.

I don't want to see us crossing for crossings sake, but if you're going to be patient with your build up when you do put a ball in the box, whether a cross or a cut back, then there needs to be several attackers in there and not just one or two isolated.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by timshorts » Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:50 pm

Rowls wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:12 am
Funny how we all watch the same games but have different opinions and ideas. To me, it's more like Kompany than Dyche, without being either.

In truth, the past half douzen games reminds me most of England under Southgate.
Whereas Wales under Bellamy is sort of exciting so far... That could all change though. The next international break will be about "what do we do with no central midfield?" Parker is more "what do I do with no central strikers."

And just as the answer to q. 2 would probably be "pass it around until we bore them to death", the answer to q. 1 is presumably "lump it over the top". I can't see Bellamy doing that though.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by JohnMcGreal » Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:53 pm

The game plan is one part of the equation. The other part is whether the players we have, particularly in midfield and attacking positions, are actually good enough.

It's still early days but there just doesn't look to be enough of a goal threat from a front 3 of Anthony, Foster and Koleosho.

I know he's still trying to reach full fitness but there's going to be an awful lot of pressure on Flemming to start delivering.
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by Superjohnnyfrancis » Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:55 pm

4-5-1 at home is way too defensive I would play 4-3-1-2 , we need two strikers up front , as has been said the midfielders cant thread a pass through and the wingers never go on the outside to get any pull backs into the box.

If the wingers attacked on the outside that would improve us 100% seems they want to come into traffic all the time.
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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by Walton » Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:07 pm

These are from 4 years ago, about 'Parkerball'
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I think we're seeing the game plan, unfortunately.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by NottsClaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:13 pm

Rowls wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:12 am
Funny how we all watch the same games but have different opinions and ideas. To me, it's more like Kompany than Dyche, without being either.

In truth, the past half dozen games reminds me most of England under Southgate.
Fair summary that. And as we all seems to have different views on Kompany, Dyche and Southgate, you can chose for yourself whether it's praise or criticism.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by dougcollins » Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:26 pm

Funkydrummer wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 12:23 pm
I know exactly what was wrong, but unfortunately it was down to lady luck.

We played the wrong way in the 1st half !!!!! That's all it is. :D :D
Yeah, b@st@rds did the same (win the toss and turn us around) and benefitted from the low sun behind them in the first half with the early ko.

100% sure that Heckinbotham was aware of that.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by NewClaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:28 pm

Walton wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:07 pm
These are from 4 years ago, about 'Parkerball'

Screenshot_20241007-122815.png
Screenshot_20241007-123247.png
Screenshot_20241007-123313.png

I think we're seeing the game plan, unfortunately.
Christ.

I don’t think I’ve heard or read anything about “Parkerball” from Bournemouth or Fulham fans since this thread, but it’s somewhat concerning. It’s probably only one fan or observers opinion, of course, but there are some striking resemblances.

I really, really hope he’s learned lessons from elsewhere, has the scars of losing his job and is going to make some urgent changes to our style to address the lack of goals.

I really don’t think he’ll get the time from ALK. Particularly when they know they could bring in Jackson as a replacement immediately.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by ChorltonCharlie » Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:57 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:53 pm
The game plan is one part of the equation. The other part is whether the players we have, particularly in midfield and attacking positions, are actually good enough.

It's still early days but there just doesn't look to be enough of a goal threat from a front 3 of Anthony, Foster and Koleosho.

I know he's still trying to reach full fitness but there's going to be an awful lot of pressure on Flemming to start delivering.
This is where I feel we're back to this time last year. Last year it was results and performances because of how harsh the PL is, whereas this year it's performances. But it's the same kind of thing. Manager doing rinse and repeat, players look lost in the system and we start questioning the players. If we look at the midfield/attack and the fees have been paid and/or their current values, then it seems a fair jump to make out the players aren't good enough. Especially as players like Cullen/Brownhill/Anthony have all been key players in a promoted team.

I think we have the best squad of players in the division alongside Leeds. Of course they still need to deliver and there's no divine right that they do that. For me I'm not even disappointed with Saturday's result. These things happen and there'll be bumps along the way. I'm just frustrated/concerned that against a very mediocre team at no point did we look like we had it in us to go on and take the game to PNE, never mind beat them

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by ClaretPete001 » Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:04 pm

To be fair, if you listen to Everton fans they think that Dyche should have played more expansively against Newcastle with a back line of Garner (midfielder), Tarkowski, Keane (roundly thought of as not good enough and Young (a 37 year old right back).

In the event, Everton played ok - stifled Newcastle and Mc Neil and Gana Gueye missed sitters.

I mean would anyone on here want to play expansively with a back line like that against Newcastle?

Similarly, West Ham fans ringing Talk Sport after Moyes won a European trophy wanting him to go.

It's perfectly reasonable to criticise Parker but give him a chance. At the point he plays a Right Back at Left back and a Centre Half at Right Back with a PL Left back on the bench (as VK did) I will join in but as yet there isn't much to go on.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by ClaretAL » Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:08 pm

Thanks All,

I have read the entire thread and I am glad in a way it wasn't just me not seeing "the game plan", that said there are a lot of constructive comments in the thread that surely Parker will have already thought of/ruled out. This is not a bashing Parker thread either just a try to understand what we are trying to achieve, and if the team is A, good enough to deliver, or B, understand it.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by RVclaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:28 pm

Walton wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:07 pm
These are from 4 years ago, about 'Parkerball'

Screenshot_20241007-122815.png
Screenshot_20241007-123247.png
Screenshot_20241007-123313.png

I think we're seeing the game plan, unfortunately.
For folk wanting a more balanced (and recent) view by neutral football writers then this Athletic article is a good read:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/329161 ... e-respect/

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by jojomk1 » Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:45 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:53 pm
The game plan is one part of the equation. The other part is whether the players we have, particularly in midfield and attacking positions, are actually good enough.

It's still early days but there just doesn't look to be enough of a goal threat from a front 3 of Anthony, Foster and Koleosho.

I know he's still trying to reach full fitness but there's going to be an awful lot of pressure on Flemming to start delivering.
A very good point re personal abilities within the squad

Seems to me we start with the object of not to concede

Playing with a back four and three central midfielders who are more defensive minded than attacking

Wide men hug the touchlines so there is little or no close contact/interplay between them and a central striker

Midfielders should be coming through into those gaps to take up the space behind the striker and support him or those out wide rather than sit back supporting Cullen or the back line - how many times do we see Hanibal or Brownhill in the top third together

What we are lacking in both these areas is any real pace to get up and down the pitch

We cannot rely on just Flemming hopefully being the answer

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by Row Z » Mon Oct 07, 2024 6:06 pm

jojomk1 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:45 pm
A very good point re personal abilities within the squad

Seems to me we start with the object of not to concede

Playing with a back four and three central midfielders who are more defensive minded than attacking

Wide men hug the touchlines so there is little or no close contact/interplay between them and a central striker

Midfielders should be coming through into those gaps to take up the space behind the striker and support him or those out wide rather than sit back supporting Cullen or the back line - how many times do we see Hanibal or Brownhill in the top third together

What we are lacking in both these areas is any real pace to get up and down the pitch

We cannot rely on just Flemming hopefully being the answer
This is why it worked so effectively against Luton as Odobert brought his pace, Viti bombed forward, Luca on the other wing had more space. Lyle dropping deep that game had less impact as he had runners going beyond him all game.

Worth noting our goals were largely on the counter and exploiting spaces, which would suit us in the prem but not against a low block.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by Mattster » Mon Oct 07, 2024 7:05 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:28 pm
For folk wanting a more balanced (and recent) view by neutral football writers then this Athletic article is a good read:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/329161 ... e-respect/
Ah yes, a puff piece by The Athletic's Spurs writer (not even the Fulham one, let alone Bournemouth) which makes no real reference to having actually watched Bournemouth or comment on their attacking play beyond damning with faint praise their win against Norwich by saying was a case of defending and then "taking their chances". Before simply quoting his defensive record whilst noting both Fulham and Bournemouth fans criticised his style of play and called it boring.

That's a really convincing counter point to actual Fulham fans' takes on watching their own club week in week out under Parker.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by RVclaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 7:48 pm

Mattster wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 7:05 pm
Ah yes, a puff piece by The Athletic's Spurs writer (not even the Fulham one, let alone Bournemouth) which makes no real reference to having actually watched Bournemouth or comment on their attacking play beyond damning with faint praise their win against Norwich by saying was a case of defending and then "taking their chances". Before simply quoting his defensive record whilst noting both Fulham and Bournemouth fans criticised his style of play and called it boring.

That's a really convincing counter point to actual Fulham fans' takes on watching their own club week in week out under Parker.
Fans can typically have biased views and emotional views, while things like style can also be subjective - for example I found Oxford and 1st half Plymouth enjoyable, others commented on it being dull.

If you don’t like the Athletic piece then fine, here’s an extract from Jacob Tanswell in the DorsetLive (now chief Villa reporter for Athletic), who watched them every week, and from his readings seems to ‘get’ football and the tactical side:

‘While players have appeared inhibited by Parker's safety-first methods at times this season, within the Kings Park Training Base, there is a general feeling that the squad have developed tactically. The groundwork has been laid to tighten up defensively and safeguard possible errors that stem from such pressing systems.

The head coach has been credited for the squad returning to being coached patterns of play, something that was either phased out or diminished through time towards the back-end of Howe’s reign and latterly under Tindall and Woodgate. Parker has also seen to be effective at installing an overall defined style, one that was quickly taken to by the squad and the two age groups below.’

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by RVclaret » Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:13 pm

Another piece from Tanswell which talks about Parkerball:

https://www.dorset.live/sport/football/ ... nk-5788598

‘The first half was perhaps the first iteration of Parkerball.

While it is easy to use the term to purely describe Bournemouth's play in possession, the term is slightly more profound than that. It isn't just about drawing pretty patterns of play, or looking on in awe at the rotations. It is an expression that should encapsulate all facets of Parker's style of football, whether that's their work on the ball, their shape without it or their highly-synchronised counterpressing methods.

Parkerball is simply a description that paints the overall picture…….

The same attacking patterns of play are beginning to emerge but also being developed, too. The wingers staying wide, the full backs and Billing underlapping (and scoring because of it) and numerical overloads being created on either flank.

Further choreographed layers are slowly beginning to be established (keep an eye on Solanke's development as a false 9, in future games) which allows better freeflowing movement within the front four and full back positions.’

There’s a bit more but I won’t paste it all… but it reads like there were clear patterns of play.

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Re: What is the Game Plan?

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:20 pm

Just stumbled across this interesting exchange between two Fulham fans from 4 years ago. TMD_2801 suggesting that Parker wishes he could tuck his shirt in while lewis price confidently states he can see what Parker has done by the way the team move the ball and don’t give up. Ignore the bit about the defenders being awful as that’s not relevant to this debate.
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