Really Poor Today

[ClaretPete001]

Roberts, Taylor, Cork, Brownhill Barnes, Rodriguez, and Gudmondsson is over half a PL team. And six of them made quite a number of appearances in the PL.

In fact, apart from Cork all clocked up a lot more appearances than Zaroury, Benson, Twine et al. Depending which stats you use, only Vitinho managed more appearances than JBG and Charlie Taylor and no player signed in the Championship winning season made more appearances than Brownhill.

Cullen managed a couple more than Jay Rod. So, the PL players VK inherited appeared more in the PL than the ones he signed.

Four of the six made more than 20 appearances in the PL while Roberts managed 14 and was then sent on loan.

Of all the players we signed in the Championship only Foster, Cullen and Vitinho managed 20 plus appearances.

Fact is, VK didn't rate his own signings.

Should say five of them - Barnes was sold - Cork didn't play.

[NewClaret]

I agree on Pires - he's very quickly become integral to us as an attacking force. But I don't think we need another that is in the same mould. I think against a team like Preston we're badly missing a full back like Vitinho on the opposite side - someone with real accelaration to carry the ball from deep or join an attack at deep to exploit gaps. Roberts and Pires aren't slow, but they're not explosive athletes like Vitinho and Maatsen were and I don't think we played many, if any, games in 2022/23 without one or other of those two in the side.

I think the point of my post last night though was to demonstrate that I don't think the basic way we're trying to play has too much wrong with it. The set up for that chance does demonstrate some positional flexibility - Pires has stepped into an orthodox holding midfield position, Foster has dropped deep and Hannibal is basically in a centre forward position with Brownhill making a third man run. I'm not sure all the pegs are in the right holes because Foster doesn't look comfortable dropping in like that and Hannibal doesn't seem to have the instinct to get into the box as he needed to in that instance, but there's plenty of rotation on show in the build up. Clearly we lack a little bit of guile on the pitch yet because the front 5 is a bit heavy on runners and light on craftsmanship, and adding that will help, but basically if we can get into the sort of attacking shape we found ourselves in when Pires delivered that ball we'll create more than enough chances provided that we are willing to commit to getting players into the box and that once we get there, players have the confidence and belief to be a bit more direct in attacking the goal. With confidence comes the composure and belief that was lacking in that chance and others - the confidence to play a calm pass to the free man was missing more than once.

I think our more fundamental issue is how we set those positions up - we are struggling to beat the press. I think that's for a few reasons - the most obvious is that we don't make the pitch big enough often enough but I also think we need to give Cullen the sort of licence to drop into a back 3 that Kompany gave him. I'm hopeful that will come with time and work on the training ground, but the lack of real pace from full back is going to be a limitation I fear. I think Parker's got to encourage us to take more risks in the way we play out to get round a press. If you pass cautiously without making the pitch big, then most teams at this level will combat that.

Totally agree about Pires and the issue on the other side.

I think Roberts will be an upgrade to Humphrey’s there but still not fast or dynamic enough. I’d love us to go in for Assignon in January again. He’d transform us.

I really think we made some risky choices with our summer selling. I’m not sure it was so critical to sell Vitinho for example without a replacement lined up and assuming Parker doesn’t trust Sambo. Same with JBG, although I know others thing we had a moral obligation to let him go. I think we cut too deep.

So I don’t entirely blame Parker for this. Pace has to take his fair share of the blame. Seriously they and the recruitment staff need to be working overtime to plan for January.

Final point on this is that we have Tresor allegedly training with us now for 3-4 weeks? I have to ask, how much longer do you have to train for to be fit to play 10 or 20 minutes of football?

I fear a bit that we’ve easing people back in very easily. For example, if Roberts was fit to play 45 minutes at the weekend why not start him? I feel while we have this pretty stark creativity issue we need to be getting players like Tresor back ASAP. The scene is also set for him to become an instant hero now; quickly put last season to bed and win over the fans.

[ClaretPete001]

Totally agree about Pires and the issue on the other side.

I think Roberts will be an upgrade to Humphrey’s there but still not fast or dynamic enough. I’d love us to go in for Assignon in January again. He’d transform us.

I really think we made some risky choices with our summer selling. I’m not sure it was so critical to sell Vitinho for example without a replacement lined up and assuming Parker doesn’t trust Sambo. Same with JBG, although I know others thing we had a moral obligation to let him go. I think we cut too deep.

So I don’t entirely blame Parker for this. Pace has to take his fair share of the blame. Seriously they and the recruitment staff need to be working overtime to plan for January.

Final point on this is that we have Tresor allegedly training with us now for 3-4 weeks? I have to ask, how much longer do you have to train for to be fit to play 10 or 20 minutes of football?

I fear a bit that we’ve easing people back in very easily. For example, if Roberts was fit to play 45 minutes at the weekend why not start him? I feel while we have this pretty stark creativity issue we need to be getting players like Tresor back ASAP. The scene is also set for him to become an instant hero now; quickly put last season to bed and win over the fans.

I think being fair quite a lot of this is not Parker's fault.

I do recall being one of few that was insistent the club would have to sell 6 or 7 first team players.

Berge would transform this team. I also agree Vitinho would also offer similar to Pires and make a big difference as would Odobert through the middle. I also said consistently last season VK had more talent at his disposal than 24 points warranted.

Anyway enough with the 'I told you so', I think Parker deserves time just based upon the hand he has been dealt.

[NewClaret]

I think being fair quite a lot of this is not Parker's fault.

I do recall being one of few that was insistent the club would have to sell 6 or 7 first team players.

Berge would transform this team. I also agree Vitinho would also offer similar to Pires and make a big difference as would Odobert through the middle. I also said consistently last season VK had more talent at his disposal than 24 points warranted.

Anyway enough with the 'I told you so', I think Parker deserves time just based upon the hand he has been dealt.

You did and I was sceptical (still am) that we needed to sell quite so many in the way we did. The timing was also awful, although I understand that seems to be the way everywhere. But the team Parker was left with for Sunderland was a disgrace.

I think Pace and co have overestimated the team left and I expect, maybe hope, they’ll have recognised the huge amount of pace and ability they sold and be looking to address that in January.

[Guller Bull]

Think Trésor will be gone in January possibly without playing another game.As I have said before, I really hope I’m wrong.

Time to make a critical judgement comparison re SP/VK will be at the end of the 25/26 season (if SP gets us back up this season. Again personally don’t think he will last that long.

[NewClaret]

Think Trésor will be gone in January possibly without playing another game.As I have said before, I really hope I’m wrong.

Time to make a critical judgement comparison re SP/VK will be at the end of the 25/26 season (if SP gets us back up this season. Again personally don’t think he will last that long.

I think most would’ve said the same thing about Trafford to be fair.

We have a problem really because unless the fee is much lower than reported, we’ve spent a huge amount and nobody will be offering us anywhere near to sell him.

Loans are an option but it’s clear from the summer window that Nice weren’t prepared to stump up what we wanted (possibly as the injury is real?) and nor were Ajax. It may be that when back to fitness and ready to play there will be a deal to be reached on loan.

Parker seems to talk very positively about his qualities and with our goal scoring problems I can see us needing to re-integrate him though.

[Swizzlestick]

I can’t see many, if any, clubs being interested in Tresor if he doesn’t kick a ball between now and Jan, esp considering we wanted a hefty loan fee for him. it’s in everybody’s best interests that he plays himself back into form.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Re New’s post, Trafford will be gone in January and Tresor too (I agree I cannot see the latter playing for us again, the comments about him are too vague).

The only reason Trafford didn’t go in the summer was NUFC couldn’t offload a keeper after being compelled to buy the Forest one they didn’t want as part of a FFP deal to sell their player the other way. Eddie really wants Trafford apparently.

On the face of it though these may be good things - more money to prioritise some positions, particularly right side, and it may lead to more chance to go straight up.

[PensansClaret]

Talk about doom mongers. Do any of you look on the bright side.

[ClaretPete001]

You did and I was sceptical (still am) that we needed to sell quite so many in the way we did. The timing was also awful, although I understand that seems to be the way everywhere. But the team Parker was left with for Sunderland was a disgrace.

I think Pace and co have overestimated the team left and I expect, maybe hope, they’ll have recognised the huge amount of pace and ability they sold and be looking to address that in January.

We had an auditors warning on the accounts based upon proposed player sales being inadequate.

I doubt they've got the money to buy players in January. We may see some loans.

They are in danger of being sucked into ever decreasing financial circles.

I think it's early yet to write this squad off. I agree with most of what you think are the problems but I suspect that our reliance on Lyle Foster could be the big issue, which is not easily resolved by SP.

[NewClaret]

Re New’s post, Trafford will be gone in January and Tresor too (I agree I cannot see the latter playing for us again, the comments about him are too vague).

The only reason Trafford didn’t go in the summer was NUFC couldn’t offload a keeper after being compelled to buy the Forest one they didn’t want as part of a FFP deal to sell their player the other way. Eddie really wants Trafford apparently.

On the face of it though these may be good things - more money to prioritise some positions, particularly right side, and it may lead to more chance to go straight up.

Re: Trafford, I’m not sure how NUFC’s PSR position would improve in the same financial year enough for him to join in January when he couldn’t join at the end of August? And realistically I can’t see him displacing Pope, can you? So from a personal point of view, I’m not sure I’d want to leave a club I’m playing at every week to sit on the bench?

I suppose there’s an argument that Eddie might use him in the same way Brighton used Verbruggen, bedding him in, and that might be enough game time for him at his age. If I were his agent though, I’d be advising him to play a full season at a lower level and get as many games as he can.

Re: Tresor, maybe Parker is bigging him up to retain the value, but realistically our only option for getting rid will be a loan, unless we get him back in the team now and he lights up the Championship for a couple of months. But I don’t understand why we turned down loans (2x) in summer, especially if we knew he’d be injured for the next six weeks?

Not sure what the injury/illness was or if it’s a big excuse, but the longer he stays out of the team the harder any comeback will be, which limits your options and negotiating position, so if I were the club I’d be asking Parker to reintegrate him ASAP.

[NewClaret]

We had an auditors warning on the accounts based upon proposed player sales being inadequate.

I doubt they've got the money to buy players in January. We may see some loans.

They are in danger of being sucked into ever decreasing financial circles.

I think it's early yet to write this squad off. I agree with most of what you think are the problems but I suspect that our reliance on Lyle Foster could be the big issue, which is not easily resolved by SP.

Yeah, I realised sales were inevitable. I think I read somewhere (RV maybe) that the running total was 120m and that was prior to other outgoings, I think. My point being I wasn’t expecting us to need to sell as many as that. Good news being that we recovered our premier league spend and still have a few high value assets to sell if needed.

I agree it’ll be loans not purchases. By the sounds of things we were only offering loans in the closing days of the window.

Good news is that in January there should be a pile of players not playing at their current clubs, maybe a few who were promised more time than they got.

We really need to be pushing on to get as high up the league as possible in January so those loans with options/obligations look safer bets to the big clubs.

Agree about Foster but with the way we’re playing and the chances we’re creating, I reckon Kompany could lend us Harry and it wouldn’t make a difference. We need to get the ball in to the striker near the goal A LOT more before I start to judge him!

[Goliath]

Pace really is a buffoon with the way he caved into Kompanys demands last season without thinking about the potential ramifications of relegation.

If we'd have just signed Tella, Redmond and Berge in the summer then we'd have been in a much better position right now. Tella was a no brainer and Berge was the Prem experience we needed for a bargain fee.

[jlup1980]

I really think we made some risky choices with our summer selling. I’m not sure it was so critical to sell Vitinho for example without a replacement lined up and assuming Parker doesn’t trust Sambo. Same with JBG, although I know others thing we had a moral obligation to let him go. I think we cut too deep.

These are the two that have hurt us the most. JBG was always an intelligent footballer and we miss his quality on the ball, whether that's out wide or in the middle. He very rarely lost the ball, and he had a relatively consistent final ball. Vitinho was the star man in the first couple of games. He looked like he'd found his position on the right wing. His pace and direct running was a big part of our threat. Selling him made good financial sense, but has created a problem on the right wing. It's square pegs in round holes on that side now.

[NL Claret]

Pace really is a buffoon with the way he caved into Kompanys demands last season without thinking about the potential ramifications of relegation.

If we'd have just signed Tella, Redmond and Berge in the summer then we'd have been in a much better position right now. Tella was a no brainer and Berge was the Prem experience we needed for a bargain fee.

Can you imagine the meltdown on here about the lack of ambition if those were the only signings?

We’d have been relegated by January.

[Goliath]

Can you imagine the meltdown on here about the lack of ambition if those were the only signings?

We’d have been relegated by January.

There wouldn't have been a major meltdown, we were riding the wave. Probably the best time to make tough decisions when the fans are happy and we have money coming in.

We could always have spent more in Jan but to do what we did has clearly damaged our hopes this seasons massively.
As we know each season promotion becomes an even bigger necessity so we don't end up down in the Champ without parachute payments.

[NewClaret]

Pace really is a buffoon with the way he caved into Kompanys demands last season without thinking about the potential ramifications of relegation.

If we'd have just signed Tella, Redmond and Berge in the summer then we'd have been in a much better position right now. Tella was a no brainer and Berge was the Prem experience we needed for a bargain fee.

We’ll never know. I think we’d have ended up with a lot more points playing Muric from the start, so I partly agree, but I think we only really got to an acceptable level of ppg when we signed Esteve and Assignon. You could debate it forever.

What is true is true is that the three promoted teams this year all spent €86m, €117m and €126m - so similar sums to us. That seems to be the expected level of spend required to even touch the sides of competing with the established premier league sides. They may yet survive but I’ll be surprised.

Given we don’t have a wealthy owner, it’s hard to see how we could ever retain premier league status again without significant spend and risk being taken.

[dandeclaret]

Can you imagine the meltdown on here about the lack of ambition if those were the only signings?

We’d have been relegated by January.

Which would have been an improvement on the relegation in October.....

[NL Claret]

Which would have been an improvement on the relegation in October.....

True, was trying to be a bit conservative, after watching the Chelsea game I was starting to resign myself to the drop.