Interesting story coming out of Colne

[fidelcastro]

Attempting to steal whether you are successful or not is a criminal offense all 3 aren't as pure as snow. The farmer for responding the way he did & the lads for trying to rob him.

Has it been confirmed that they were trying to rob him?

[Jakubclaret]

Happen if those in prison were punished a bit more than trying to turn pigs ears into silk purses it might deter a few from going so there would be a bit more room for the more ardent criminals.

You are banging the same old drum the sooner some people wake up & accept that prison is a holiday camp & that needs to change is the day we can all work together towards reducing crime.

[fidelcastro]

You are banging the same old drum the sooner some people wake up & accept that prison is a holiday camp & that needs to change is the day we can all work together towards reducing crime.

Do those that end up taking their own life whilst in prison do it because it's too cushy?

[Barlickclaret]

I can't believe there is people on here who are siding with the scruffy, thieving, horrible,scrotes. The farmer should be commended for his actions. Do people not realise it is illegal to steal off other people.

[Jakubclaret]

Do those that end up taking their own life whilst in prison do it because it's too cushy?

People commit suicide in or out of prison there's no link that prison is pushing people that way. The very nature of why some people are in prison in the first place would suggest they aren't all there.

[summitclaret]

Apparently the farmer did but they were unable to attend.
Hope you don't get the same response if you need them.

Just ring and say that you are offended by what some xxxx said about you on X and you'll get a quick response.

[fidelcastro]

People commit suicide in or out of prison there's no link that prison is pushing people that way. The very nature of why some people are in prison in the first place would suggest they aren't all there.

If they aren't all there, then surely prison isn't where they should be.

I'm doing it again. I'm feeding the troll. Sorry everyone

[Jakubclaret]

If they aren't all there, then surely prison isn't where they should be.

I'm doing it again. I'm feeding the troll. Sorry everyone

Agree to disagree. I've asked the questions before without proper answers. If the prisons are such unattractive places to be in - why are there all full & why do people keep reoffending risking being sent to them. Surely anybody with a ounce of noggin would be doing everything possible to avoid being sent to them if after all there are meant to be hell.

[shulgin]

Did the poster pushpinpussy represent the farmer if he is a solicitor as he purports to be?

[Barden Lane]

You are banging the same old drum the sooner some people wake up & accept that prison is a holiday camp & that needs to change is the day we can all work together towards reducing crime.

In my experience they are not holiday camps. I have seen many men hide behind their cell doors scared to come out and then cry themselves to sleep at night. They are places of danger, chaos, struggle and desperation. It is easy to sink if you don't have the strength to adapt and overcome. On the other hand I have also seen people who are comfortable in there and are better off than they are on the outside which is saddening. We are all individuals with our own history and back stories, I think it is important to understand the root causes as to how and why people find themselves behind bars.

[Rowls]

Surprised how many people are siding with the criminal.

Criminal(s).

[ClaretAndJew]

They weren’t trying to steal anything.

They were driving mopeds on his land and left them there and went back for them in the morning when the farmer assaulted them.

[Clovius Boofus]

They were chewing up his fields (his livelihood).

[AlargeClaret]

The most bizzare tangent this thread has taken is people invoking “ Trump “ “ Gammon “ etc ?? How by even the most twisted narrative driven “logic” can anyone liken a farmer ( or anyone else defending their land /property ) to their political beliefs ?? Don’t Lab voters protect their property or defend themselves ? or is that only red faced beer bellied buffoons ?

[Firthy]

If there was enough police to cover all crimes then they'd stand a chance of doing something about these sorts of incidents. Unfortunately there isn't so it's left to people like the farmer to deal with it themsleves.

Crimanls now have more rights than the police trying to stop them and as a result get away with far more than they should. This sort of thing will become more common because people are fed up with it so will eventually take the law into their own hands because they have m=no choice. I know I would do whatever it took to protect my home and my family.

[Rileybobs]

Trespassing isn’t a crime.

[Stanbill05]

Farmer has clearly overstepped the mark but I can understand why. Farming is hard work and there is lots of stress associated with generating an actual income. They have to cope with a hundred threats that they can't control including rural crime. Most farms are repeated victims of crime and people are rarely caught. Can't condone it, but can understand someone snapping when finally catching someone in the act of damaging your livelihood. Likely years of frustration led to it. There has to be charges, but hope there is some leniency. There is risk though that they will be harshly punished to send a message to other would be vigilantes..

[SalouClaret]

Trespassing isn’t a crime.

Criminal damage is, though.

[pushpinpussy]

Trespassing isn’t a crime.

Not entirely true. Some types of trespassing are covered by criminal law.

[TheFamilyCat]

Farmer has clearly overstepped the mark but I can understand why. Farming is hard work and there is lots of stress associated with generating an actual income. They have to cope with a hundred threats that they can't control including rural crime. Most farms are repeated victims of crime and people are rarely caught. Can't condone it, but can understand someone snapping when finally catching someone in the act of damaging your livelihood. Likely years of frustration led to it. There has to be charges, but hope there is some leniency. There is risk though that they will be harshly punished to send a message to other would be vigilantes..

That's probably why he's trying to get himself banged up in a cushy prison cell for the winter.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I am going to guess that jakub is speaking from his own experience of being in prison, he can't be speaking from an uninformed viewpoint.

The same guy who claimed he was unsure if Boris Johnson was a liar as he hadn't directly lied to him surely wouldn't be making dumb claims about prison without having been inside himself.

[Row x]

Not entirely true. Some types of trespassing are covered by criminal law.

Correct, it's called burglary

[pushpinpussy]

Correct, it's called burglary

they are totally different. for a burglary you have to enter a building or part of a building and then commit or attempt to commit a crime ( steal/GBH etc)

trespass on the other hand relates mainly (not fully) to residing on land without consent

[Clovius Boofus]

I know the farm has had problems with dogs worrying livestock and attacks resulting in deaths. If people cannot follow simple rules, like keeping dogs on a leash around livestock, then they are no better than those who cause vandalism. In fact, they are far worse because of the pain and suffering this causes the animals, not to mention the upset and financial hit to the farm.

[NewClaret]

Out of interest: how would you deal with the current accommodation crisis that sees all our prisons full due to mismanagement and lack of funding /investment over the past couple of decades?

I’m not sure if you mean the issue that many of the released prisoners don’t have anywhere to live after being released, meaning that the reoffending rate is, by the minister in charge’s own admission, “really high”… (thus the whole early release concept is fundamentally flawed) - in which case I don’t think it’s wise for me to discuss the current overcrowding/accommodation challenges on here as it will probably stray in to areas that break forum rules.

Or the fact that there are not enough prison places to deal with our increasing prison population in the first place (which is an inevitable consequence of general population growth). In which case the answer is pretty obvious that more prisons, or expansion of existing prisons, should’ve taken place long before it reached this point. That is not a political point, just a fairly obvious statement that increasing demand needs to be met with increased supply.

[Row x]

they are totally different. for a burglary you have to enter a building or part of a building and then commit or attempt to commit a crime ( steal/GBH etc)

trespass on the other hand relates mainly (not fully) to residing on land without consent

I think you need to check the definition of burglary

Now unless the theft act has changed, the first line of the burglary definition is "enters as a trespasser"
And you don't have to commit or attempt to commit a crime,it also covers entering as a trespasser with the intention of committing certain crimes.

[Rileybobs]

My point is it appears they were just trespassing, in which case not committing a crime and therefore not a police matter. The farmer on the other hand… I’ve only read the Sun article though so if they were causing damage or committing theft then I stand corrected.

[Clovius Boofus]

I think you need to check the definition of burglary

Now unless the theft act has changed, the first line of the burglary definition is "enters as a trespasser"
And you don't have to commit or attempt to commit a crime,it also covers entering as a trespasser with the intention of committing certain crimes.

He'll be back with a response - after he's consulted Google.

[BigGaz]

People commit suicide in or out of prison there's no link that prison is pushing people that way. The very nature of why some people are in prison in the first place would suggest they aren't all there.

Is this one a troll?

It's impressive in that everything he's said so is either wrong, inflammatory or both. So much so that it has me doubting whether it's genuine or not.

If you're not on a wind up Jakub I'm willing to spend some time talking to you about offenders, offending and 'the system' but if you're doing it for a rise out of folk it'll be a waste of everyone's time.

It goes without saying though, there is a link between prison and suicide and you should probably be careful with that if it's a sincerely held belief.

[Jakubclaret]

Is this one a troll?

It's impressive in that everything he's said so is either wrong, inflammatory or both. So much so that it has me doubting whether it's genuine or not.

If you're not on a wind up Jakub I'm willing to spend some time talking to you about offenders, offending and 'the system' but if you're doing it for a rise out of folk it'll be a waste of everyone's time.

It goes without saying though, there is a link between prison and suicide and you should probably be careful with that if it's a sincerely held belief.

People commit suicide anywhere & everywhere it doesn't solely happen in prison. Of course statistically the ratio to the general population will be skewed but the people already in prison will have issues anyway whether in or out of prison. If you have the intent to top yourself it doesn't matter where you are. Newton cap viaduct caged off with the samaritan posters isn't a prison which was the go to place where I live.

[BigGaz]

You are 4 times more likely to kill yourself in prison Vs not Jakub. It's not a 'skewed' statistic.

I think I will leave it here because what I am working with is experience, studies and research and what you are working on are feelings, prejudice and The Sun.

[Jakubclaret]

You are 4 times more likely to kill yourself in prison Vs not Jakub. It's not a 'skewed' statistic.

I think I will leave it here because what I am working with is experience, studies and research and what you are working on are feelings, prejudice and The Sun.

That might be true but the people you are dealing with it cannot be ascertained whether they would have done it eventually anyway outside of prison that's the point I'm asserting.

[BigGaz]

Yeah it's a good point. You could be on to something - why stop there? Perhaps when people die of heart disease we should report it as lung cancer because who can really say whether it will have got them eventually.

[ClaretFelix]

I think you need to check the definition of burglary

Now unless the theft act has changed, the first line of the burglary definition is "enters as a trespasser"
And you don't have to commit or attempt to commit a crime,it also covers entering as a trespasser with the intention of committing certain crimes.

I think you might have to re read the definition of burglary yourself.....

[Row x]

I think you might have to re read the definition of burglary yourself.....

I don't think so

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/19 ... =serp_auto

[daveisaclaret]

Pretty rare and funny for someone to post a legislation.gov.uk link that proves their own post absolutely wrong. Fair play

[Row x]

Pretty rare and funny for someone to post a legislation.gov.uk link that proves their own post absolutely wrong. Fair play

I'm intrigued, which bit is wrong?
Being a trespasser
Or still committing the offence if it was with intent?

[ClaretFelix]

As PPP says "building or part of a building"

In no way does burglary refer to land

[RMutt]

I’m interested in how the farmer managed to tie up two fully grown men.
Did he have them at gunpoint?
I can’t imagine them just standing there and letting him get on with it. Was one just watching whilst the first was tied up?

[Row x]

As PPP says "building or part of a building"

In no way does burglary refer to land

Obviously, never said it did, just that you have to be a trespasser

[daveisaclaret]

Obviously, never said it did, just that you have to be a trespasser

You did correct ppp saying burglary means you need to enter a building to say he needs to look up the act, and then post the act which proves him spot on

[Devils_Advocate]

Obviously, never said it did, just that you have to be a trespasser

Thats not true, it states in the document you shared that you also have to have the intent to steal or cause grievous bodily harm so if someone trespassed into someone's home with no intent to steal or cause grievous bodily harm they would not have committed burglary

[Row x]

You did correct ppp saying burglary means you need to enter a building to say he needs to look up the act, and then post the act which proves him spot on

If you read the discussion, it came from someone saying trespassing isn't a crime.. I never suggested it referred to anything other than a building. PPP was suggesting you had to steal etc, I corrected him that intent was enough

[Row x]

Thats not true, it states in the document you shared that you also have to have the intent to steal or cause grievous bodily harm so if someone trespassed into someone's home with no intent to steal or cause grievous bodily harm they would not have committed burglary

You have to be a trespasser to commit burglary, which was my point
You can be a trespasser and not be a burglar

[daveisaclaret]

If you read the discussion, it came from someone saying trespassing isn't a crime.. I never suggested it referred to anything other than a building. PPP was suggesting you had to steal etc, I corrected him that intent was enough

It's fine to be wrong. I promise you don't have to argue your way out of this.

[Row x]

It's fine to be wrong. I promise you don't have to argue your way out of this.

I'm not, in either respect

[Jakubclaret]

Yeah it's a good point. You could be on to something - why stop there? Perhaps when people die of heart disease we should report it as lung cancer because who can really say whether it will have got them eventually.

You never know how things will turn out. You can't predict something that hasn't happened. I'm guessing the people who commit suicide generally speaking aren't happy people with a sound mind.

[Stonehouse]

What happened to the old sign “Trespassers will be Prosecuted “

[Bosscat]

76006BF_WEB_600.png (150.28 KiB) Viewed 1459 times

What happened to the old sign “Trespassers will be Prosecuted “

[NottsClaret]

I'm not too keen on vigilante justice as a rule, but on balance, with no injuries sustained - I'm declaring myself pro-farmer on this one.

Also, goes to show why you need to leave farmers well alone. 52 years old, and he catches, tackles and ties up a 20 year old and 17 year old. They're a different breed that lot. I'd put them above gypsies on a Top Trumps of civilian folk not to mess with.