Koleosho

[Mattster]

Mattster you honestly can’t be watching the game if you didn’t think he was an issue today.

I point you back to the post you quoted.

[Goalposts]

Id go along with the koelsho potential if he could persistently beat a man - or consistently deliver a cross - or consistently look up and read the game . If he could mix it up between coming inside and going outside - if he consistently had a final ball..

For me he does nothing consistently well - or shows signs of being able to do some of the above consistently well.

[Shaun1983]

No point arguing, he's got a target on his back now. No way was he an issue today and yet he's the one with a thread created purely to bash him.

Says it all.

Where I was sat he was getting lots of unnecessary abuse from fans. When he was near the wing people shouting of him and calling him a lazy cnut and telling him to get off the field. Nothing like getting behind your player eh?

[me01jh]

I said it on the match day thread, he looks like a competition winner; speed boat without a driver. He looks completely lost.

Most managers would be licking their lips at the prospect of having Koleosho, Benson, Flemming & Hannibal in their squads but we are yet to see anything of value this season.

[Silkyskills1]

Just not good enough for this level of football.

[colne-claret]

I love the way our so called fans support the players

Happy new year Row X

[Woodleyclaret]

Played well but why our cm particularly Brownhill didn't support him is a mystery
Once again our slowly slowly game cost us lost points

[The Shire Claret]

Hart was past his best when he came here, Berisha we hardly saw to form an opinion, Weghorst didn't want to be here and no one ever rated Darko in the first place... So try again.

I don’t need to try again - when Joe Heart came here everyone was buzzing and though we were getting one of the best keepers going and he didn’t produce the goods

That’s just one

Luca is frustrating to watch at the moment but in my opinion you are well off on the most over rated player ever

Well off

[The Shire Claret]

You’re on the wind up I’m sure

His potential is non existent, he’s got worse with age and experience. His one advantage against many, his pace, he doesn’t use, and when he does, his end product is terrible.

I said last year that when he got injured it was a blessing in disguise, because it gave Odobert the chance to play who is 10x the player. It’s just a shame we don’t have much better to pick from at the moment.

Joe Hart and Wout - both full internationals for their respective countries, will naturally come with some expectations
Darko - another bad signing and he wasn’t over rated, it was pretty even with who thought he was good/bad
Berisha - at a time where we hardly ever signed any form of ‘flair’ player, and played well for Albania at the turf, never got a chance but file him along the Vydra’s of the world who got better the less he played.

He’s 21 and and might as well retire by the sounds of it

Like Trafford last season … some fans have zero patience

[claretspice]

I'm firmly with Mattster on this.

Firstly, I thought he did fine today. He lost the ball trying a bit hard a couple of times, and that seems to have stuck. But he also produced the two most penetrating passes of the first half to create decent openings (not a high bar but they were cracking passes), went on a solo run that drew a yellow card and the vast majority of his dribbles were successful. In the ten minutes before he was hooked he beat the full back and produced good crosses on the run twice, one of which was well headed away (but we lacked men in the box) and one of which created a half chance.

All of that was done whilst playing on his less favoured flank and without a hell of a lot of support from the crowd, and whilst dealing with really slow possession which at best gave him the ball once the defence had cut down his space, and at worst forced him to deal with a series of underhit passes which forced him to handle the ball on the retreat with a full back up his backside. We played to his weaknesses not his strengths.

I was really surprised Parker started with him on the right (not least as Anthony has looked more effective on the right, and did again today), really surprised they weren't swapped at half time or before just ti try something different, and stunned he was the first man subbed. He'd produced miles more than Anthony and Sarmiento combined. Unless prompted by injury it felt wrong in the context of the game but it also felt like a surprising move given we're talking about a young kid with lots of potential but whose confidence is visibly down right now.

[fidelcastro]

I don’t need to try again - when Joe Heart came here everyone was buzzing and though we were getting one of the best keepers going and he didn’t produce the goods

That’s just one

Luca is frustrating to watch at the moment but in my opinion you are well off on the most over rated player ever

Well off

You may have been excited by Hart signing, but I certainly wasn't.

I've been watching us for almost 37 years and I can't think of a more overrated player that we've had.

The only thing he has on his side is his age, but he'll have to adapt his style dramatically if he's ever going to be successful.

[The Shire Claret]

You may have been excited by Hart signing, but I certainly wasn't.

I've been watching us for almost 37 years and I can't think of a more overrated player that we've had.

The only thing he has on his side is his age, but he'll have to adapt his style dramatically if he's ever going to be successful.

Don’t write him off just yet Mr Castro

[fidelcastro]

Don’t write him off just yet Mr Castro

Okay, but I'd love to know what you've seen that suggests he's going to get better.

[Overseascricketer]

Rubbish on the left. Rubbish on the right. He’s been here a year and a half and I don’t know what his strongest foot is. Not because he’s good on either because he’s not. Certainly looking like a winger we only paid a couple of million for. I’m going back some years but Kightly, Kacaniklic and Josh McQuoid were more effective than him.

I bet Pace is seriously regretting turning that big money bid down for him in the summer

[The Shire Claret]

Okay, but I'd love to know what you've seen that suggests he's going to get better.

For me the only thing he’s doing wrong is trying too hard and making bad choices becuase of it

He has work to do on his decision making absolutley

[agreenwood]

He’s clearly low on confidence, but I actually thought he did ok today.

Having so many young players seems to have desensitised some fans to voicing their displeasure with them. Several folk around me were booing and screaming at three separate players aged 22 or younger today.

It’s not helping.

[Jakubs Tash]

He’s not good enough - even at this level.

The people on here and other social media outlets (Blue tick accounts on Twitter/X) in the summer who were telling us he was going to “rip it up on the Championship” look ridiculous right now.

[claretspice]

He’s clearly low on confidence, but I actually thought he did ok today.

Having so many young players seems to have desensitised some fans to voicing their displeasure with them. Several folk around me were booing and screaming at three separate players aged 22 or younger today.

It’s not helping.

Completely agree with this, although I'd add that I was disappointed in Roberts during the first half. His distribution to Koleosho was awful and on one occasion, having had a chance to play Koleosho in with space against his full back, he underhit the pass horribly and forced Koleosho to retreat to receive it under pressure - and rather than holding out a hand to apologise, he berated Koleosho for not coming short. If the team plan was for Koleosho to pass up chances to attack his full back to come short then OK but it'd be a really odd plan, so it smacked of a senior player shifting blame onto a younger player rather than own his own mistakes.

[123EasyasBFC]

Thought he played well today and was the wrong player to take off.

Don't understand how Parker has managed to knock £20m+ off his value by constantly favouring a loan player and it's Koleosho that gets the stick.

We looked much more threatening when he came off imo, Anthony is much better on the right then koleosho. I cent understand when it clearly wasn’t working after 20 minutes why Parker didn’t switch them. Roberts and Anthony have formed a good understanding and we changed it today.

[Mattster]

We looked much more threatening when he came off imo, Anthony is much better on the right then koleosho. I cent understand when it clearly wasn’t working after 20 minutes why Parker didn’t switch them. Roberts and Anthony have formed a good understanding and we changed it today.

In the 17 minutes of the second half before he came off we had 3 open play shots on goal from inside the penalty area. Our next open play shot on goal came 18 minutes after he was subbed off.

[123EasyasBFC]

In the 17 minutes of the second half before he came off we had 3 open play shots on goal from inside the penalty area. Our next open play shot on goal came 18 minutes after he was subbed off.

That had nothing to do with koleosho, he wasn’t the only problem today the whole set up was but i can’t see how anyone watched today and thought koleosho played well

[jedi_master]

One of Koleosho’s biggest issues is that he has lost (at least) a yard of pace since his ACL. I think the pace he used to have meant that he was so electric you could look past his lack of technique and quality on the ball.

[Bowclaret]

Fickle bunch of “fans” we have. If he smokes one in the top corner on Saturday or scores a goal like he did against Leeds then the ones giving him s hit will be nowhere to be seen.

I see a cracking player, a little low on confidence but a player that’s got it and will only get better. He young, back from a terrible injury so here’s an idea - BACK HIM !

[Shaun1983]

Fickle bunch of “fans” we have. If he smokes one in the top corner on Saturday or scores a goal like he did against Leeds then the ones giving him s hit will be nowhere to be seen.

I see a cracking player, a little low on confidence but a player that’s got it and will only get better. He young, back from a terrible injury so here’s an idea - BACK HIM !

Well said. Get behind him instead of slagging him off and he may come good

[karatekid]

The kid has talent but unfortunately the coaching he is receiving is not bringing the best out of him. What do they work on in training with him as it isn’t working? They should be coaching him on when to release the ball after he beats a man and to look up and pick out a team mate before he puts the ball in the box.

[123EasyasBFC]

The kid has talent but unfortunately the coaching he is receiving is not bringing the best out of him. What do they work on in training with him as it isn’t working? They should be coaching him on when to release the ball after he beats a man and to look up and pick out a team mate before he puts the ball in the box.

Which is it the coaching that’s wrong, coaches can work on releasing the ball, running in behind, putting crosses into the box all they want and a player and decide to run into trouble

[Murger]

Struggling to see this so called potential. Even with so much space to run into, he always comes inside and run into trouble. Zero football nous.

[colne-claret]

Fickle bunch of “fans” we have. If he smokes one in the top corner on Saturday or scores a goal like he did against Leeds then the ones giving him s hit will be nowhere to be seen.

I see a cracking player, a little low on confidence but a player that’s got it and will only get better. He young, back from a terrible injury so here’s an idea - BACK HIM !

I’ve backed him all season but it’s the same thing every week… cut infield and run into opposition defenders. Players should be able to receive criticism without being told that we’re being fickle. I always remember Gifton Noel Williams scoring a hattick and I was buzzing for him, he was still absolute crap. I want Koleosho to succeed but I also suspect we’d have been better cashing in in the summer.

[claretspice]

That had nothing to do with koleosho, he wasn’t the only problem today the whole set up was but i can’t see how anyone watched today and thought koleosho played well

It had quite a bit to do with Koleosho because as I set out above, virtually every chance we created whilst Koleosho was on the pitch involved Koleosho, the one booking we forced as a result of breaking the lines was entirely Koleosho's work, and he produced the two best crosses we produced in the entirety of the second half despite only playing less than a third of it.

Once he went off, until Foster got into the game late on, we had no pace in the attacking third to speak of and that allowed Stoke to step up a yard, and grasp momentum.

The second half became a bit of a mess from our perspective. We went to a midfield three with Sarmiento off the left firstly, and that left Pires a bit exposed, so within 10 minutes we brought on Hannibal and Humphreys and changed the system again, before bringing on Foster to finally play with a front 2 with 15 minutes to play. The speed with which we went from plan A, to plan B and then plan C and even D suggested a lack of confidence in any single plan. Perhaps Foster isn't quite fit enough to do a full half an hour yet, but it felt like we were crying out for the pace of Koleosho down the left, with Flemming playing behind a striker in a slightly simpler 4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1 set up. We've not seen it yet at home.

[123EasyasBFC]

It had quite a bit to do with Koleosho because as I set out above, virtually every chance we created whilst Koleosho was on the pitch involved Koleosho, the one booking we forced as a result of breaking the lines was entirely Koleosho's work, and he produced the two best crosses we produced in the entirety of the second half despite only playing less than a third of it.

Once he went off, until Foster got into the game late on, we had no pace in the attacking third to speak of and that allowed Stoke to step up a yard, and grasp momentum.

The second half became a bit of a mess from our perspective. We went to a midfield three with Sarmiento off the left firstly, and that left Pires a bit exposed, so within 10 minutes we brought on Hannibal and Humphreys and changed the system again, before bringing on Foster to finally play with a front 2 with 15 minutes to play. The speed with which we went from plan A, to plan B and then plan C and even D suggested a lack of confidence in any single plan. Perhaps Foster isn't quite fit enough to do a full half an hour yet, but it felt like we were crying out for the pace of Koleosho down the left, with Flemming playing behind a striker in a slightly simpler 4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1 set up. We've not seen it yet at home.

Koleosho put in 5 crosses, none of them successful, Anthony put in 10 crosses 4 of them successful. We were 100% more dangerous when he wasn’t on the pitch

[fidelcastro]

Anyone scoring Koleosho a 7 today must've been at a different game and mistaken him for someone else!

[claretspice]

Koleosho put in 5 crosses, none of them successful, Anthony put in 10 crosses 4 of them successful. We were 100% more dangerous when he wasn’t on the pitch

The 10 includes set plays, for starters, amd successful just means we got first contact in the box. Most of the four will be from set plays when we had more men in the box. As for Koleosho's the two in the second half were symptomatic - they were both excellent balls in, and I think one forced a corner and one created a half chance from a half clearance, but on both occasions we had only one ir two players in the box so it was hardly surprising they weren't 'successful' in those terms.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Fickle bunch of “fans” we have. If he smokes one in the top corner on Saturday or scores a goal like he did against Leeds then the ones giving him s hit will be nowhere to be seen.

I see a cracking player, a little low on confidence but a player that’s got it and will only get better. He young, back from a terrible injury so here’s an idea - BACK HIM !

I appreciate your sentiment Bowclaret but this is some of the underlying data around Koleosho this season.

Vitinho who played 3 times this season for Burnley has got more assists than Koleosho, one less goal and has created twice as many big chances.

People rightfully should be able to talk about his shocking form this season. He’s not just under performing, he’s producing at the very lowest level in this league. Il put where he ranks in the league below.

He ranks 178th in the league (out of 321) for goals and assists.

186th in the league for big chance creation.

169th for expected goals.

68th for expected assists.

You can defend him as much as you want but for a player that is valued at 20m plus, this is just simply not good enough.

[claretspice]

I appreciate your sentiment Bowclaret but this is some of the underlying data around Koleosho this season.

Vitinho who played 3 times this season for Burnley has got more assists than Koleosho, one less goal and has created twice as many big chances.

People rightfully should be able to talk about his shocking form this season. He’s not just under performing, he’s producing at the very lowest level in this league. Il put where he ranks in the league below.

He ranks 178th in the league (out of 321) for goals and assists.

186th in the league for big chance creation.

169th for expected goals.

68th for expected assists.

You can defend him as much as you want but for a player that is valued at 20m plus, this is just simply not good enough.

Yep he's a young kid finding his way back from serious injury and struggling s bit for confidence. That's the big picture and quite obviously the reaction of the crowd isn't helping.

Today though, he was fine, and in his time on the pitch, our most productive attacker. If we can't see the positives whe they're there and insist on accentuate the negatives, we're doing the kid a disservice and ourselves, because his success is our success.

[scamander]

The challenge he has (like many quick wingers) is to work on his decision making. He almost always cuts in which makes him predictable and easier to deal with. It's possible that Parker has told him to do this - we don't know.

Give him time and I think he will click.

[colne-claret]

Yep he's a young kid finding his way back from serious injury and struggling s bit for confidence. That's the big picture and quite obviously the reaction of the crowd isn't helping.

Today though, he was fine, and in his time on the pitch, our most productive attacker. If we can't see the positives whe they're there and insist on accentuate the negatives, we're doing the kid a disservice and ourselves, because his success is our success.

I feel like I watched a different game to you today if he was deemed as our best attacking player.

[claretspice]

I feel like I watched a different game to you today if he was deemed as our best attacking player.

It wasn't a high bar but in my opinion he was, and quite comfortably. Anthony, Sarmiento, Jay and Flemming weren't a factor on the game.

[taio]

20 years of age - very good potentia so with plenty of opportunity to learn and improve. As always, patience is necessary but a minority of people will castigate him at any opportunity. Not dissimilar to Trafford last season.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Yep he's a young kid finding his way back from serious injury and struggling s bit for confidence. That's the big picture and quite obviously the reaction of the crowd isn't helping.

Today though, he was fine, and in his time on the pitch, our most productive attacker. If we can't see the positives whe they're there and insist on accentuate the negatives, we're doing the kid a disservice and ourselves, because his success is our success.

I just didn’t see that today.

He had the worst possession stats on the pitch today for Burnley at 70% (lost the ball way too many times in promising areas). His final ball was really poor.

I feel like I’ve watched a different game if he was deemed our best attacking outlet.

[Walt]

I can't agree with a view that says Parker has knocked 20m off his value. He's doing that himself with poor performances. He's been given plenty of opportunities to perform and for 80% of it has been poor whether he's been left, or right.

You can debate Parker making right, or wrong decisions over selections or tactically, but Parker can't control a player's output. That's down to the individual to step up under pressure.

I've posted previously I do see potential in Koleosho and he needs patience. He also needs time out of the team in my opinion. Sadly, we're not blessed with great options so he's played more than I'm sure Parker would have done otherwise.

His cameo against Derby was good I thought. He looked lively and more confident, ok, he didn't create much, or score obviously but maybe that's how to get the best out of him for now and increase his confidence where he feels like he's made positive impacts. I thought he did that, livened the team up with his energy and direct approach.

I dont think he helps himself with his visible frustration whenever things don't go for him. Perhaps that's a sports psychology thing that would help alleviate pressure he applies to himself. No idea on that, as I'm a long way from being classed as knowledgeable about psychology.

We seem to be in another Trafford situation where the overexposure isn't doing him any good, he certainly gives it his all when he does play, so that's something positive. Also, he wants the ball and isn't hiding looking for easy options.

As many have said his confidence generally seems very low and as a consequence tries too hard to make things happen, usually resulting in a poor pass, or not passing trying to beat too many players.

I'm not for a minute saying he's going to be a Ronaldo (or comparing him like for like style of play wise) but when he was young and inexperienced he often overplayed it, or tried to do something special constantly. A bit of composure will hopefully come as it did with Ronaldo.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I thought he was really poor and was amazed he came back out for the 2nd half. I just don’t see this potential to improve. We need better attacking footballers than him for the second half of the season that much is obvious.

[blatherwickstattoos]

Said it last season even though people were singing his praises. He’s an headless chicken. Zero football brain

[Mattster]

That had nothing to do with koleosho, he wasn’t the only problem today the whole set up was but i can’t see how anyone watched today and thought koleosho played well

You said we looked "more threatening" when he was subbed off but we failed to create a single open play chance in the 18 minutes following his substitution when we'd created 3 in the 17 minutes prior. Shows you're talking nonsense and clearly have an agenda.

[claretspice]

I just didn’t see that today.

He had the worst possession stats on the pitch today for Burnley at 70% (lost the ball way too many times in promising areas). His final ball was really poor.

I feel like I’ve watched a different game if he was deemed our best attacking outlet.

I
Whoscored has his passing accuracy at 78%, well ahead of Rodriguez of starters snd Laurent if we include subs. But in any event, that's a daft stat for a player is to try and make things happen. His job is to put the ball at risk. And yes, clearly we have watched the game differently. Watch it back and I reckon you'll see three or four decent or better balls in (including those two ive referenced above) and two excellent through balls which created openings. I think with Koleosho, like McNeil a few years ago, we've reached the point where negativity has overwhelmed all objectivity about his performances. He's not meeting expectations and therefore he can do no right.

[agreenwood]

I
Whoscored has his passing accuracy at 78%, well ahead of Rodriguez of starters snd Laurent if we include subs. But in any event, that's a daft stat for a player is to try and make things happen. His job is to put the ball at risk. And yes, clearly we have watched the game differently. Watch it back and I reckon you'll see three or four decent or better balls in (including those two ive referenced above) and two excellent through balls which created openings. I think with Koleosho, like McNeil a few years ago, we've reached the point where negativity has overwhelmed all objectivity about his performances. He's not meeting expectations and therefore he can do no right.

Agreed. Thought he did some good things and some poor things today. Much like a lot of the starting XI.

We’re now at the point where he loses some elements of the crowd the moment he makes a mistake. You feel he can only redeem himself after that by scoring a goal of the season contender.

[taio]

Incredible that someone would try to compare such statistics

[DanH90]

Mattster, and Claretspice, you two seem like two of the people on here with good knowledge of football. But I really can’t understand how anyone can see today’s game and think Koleosho played well.
I counted 5 times in a 10 minute period in the first half where he lost the ball. Not through incisive, risky passes, but basic poor decision making and quality.
As others have said, I really don’t see the potential there. If he was going to become a top player worth 40m, surely he would have more than 1 goal and 0 assists (I think) in a poor Championship at his age. He’s got nothing other than pace (and actually I don’t even think he’s that electric)

[123EasyasBFC]

You said we looked "more threatening" when he was subbed off but we failed to create a single open play chance in the 18 minutes following his substitution when we'd created 3 in the 17 minutes prior. Shows you're talking nonsense and clearly have an agenda.

So the chance we had right at the end didn’t come from open play did it not?

[Mattster]

So the chance we had right at the end didn’t come from open play did it not?

Was that in the immediate aftermath of the substitution?

No, it was some 33 minutes after Koleosho was subbed off and after a further 3 substitutions.

[Mattster]

Mattster, and Claretspice, you two seem like two of the people on here with good knowledge of football. But I really can’t understand how anyone can see today’s game and think Koleosho played well.
I counted 5 times in a 10 minute period in the first half where he lost the ball. Not through incisive, risky passes, but basic poor decision making and quality.
As others have said, I really don’t see the potential there. If he was going to become a top player worth 40m, surely he would have more than 1 goal and 0 assists (I think) in a poor Championship at his age. He’s got nothing other than pace (and actually I don’t even think he’s that electric)

Claretspice has summarised the positive of his performance pretty well. If you're not going to take that on board and also get the number of goals scored by Koleosho wrong then there's little point wasting time trying to change your mind.