You didn’t say immediate you said we didn’t create a single chance from open play in the 18 minutes after which is wrong, Anthony crossed the ball which led to two big chances in the same move.
So sorry that I disagree with the ‘positives’ outlined by you both, so I won’t be taking it on board, as I don’t agree. It’s not objective.
Very very strange.
Yes, in the 96th minute.123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 9:55 pmYou didn’t say immediate you said we didn’t create a single chance from open play in the 18 minutes after which is wrong, Anthony crossed the ball which led to two big chances in the same move.
In the 89th minute. I'll help you out, that's not in the 18 minutes afterwards either. And, as before, following a further 3 subs.123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 9:55 pmFoster also had a chance from open play to which the keeper saved.
So not from open play, then?123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 9:55 pmWe had a chance from a set piece which Anthony created, missed header by Roberts.
Not a single player had a goal contribution today. What's the relevance of that stat to today's performance?Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 10:12 pmVery very strange.
Apparantly we are all stupid because we arnt praising a winger in a team ranked 2nd in the league that only has 2 goal contributions.
The facts don’t lie he’s currently performing like a low table winger and all the data supports that thesis.
My original point was we looked more threatening when he went off, and you then threw 18 minutes in there just to suit your argument, you seem to have a real issue on here and on on X with people who have a different opinion to youMattster wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 10:13 pmYes, in the 96th minute.
Are you saying the 96th minute is within 18 minutes of the 63rd minute? Maths not your strong suit, clearly.
In the 89th minute. I'll help you out, that's not in the 18 minutes afterwards either. And, as before, following a further 3 subs.
So not from open play, then?
Our entire attack (including Anthony) bar Brownhill have attacking output more akin to lower end Championship players.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 10:18 pmGot nothing to do with today (where he was crap) but the whole season where he is statistically performing like a low end championship winger.
Because it was it took 18 minutes for us to create the next open play chance after Koleosho's substitution. I didn't throw it in there to suit, just stating the obvious when you've suggested we looked more threatening when he was taken off.123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 10:23 pmMy original point was we looked more threatening when he went off, and you then threw 18 minutes in there just to suit your argument, you seem to have a real issue on here and on on X with people who have a different opinion to you
I’ve taken Brownhill out as your correct he’s up there with the best.
This is quite staggering and worrying.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 10:48 pmI’ve taken Brownhill out as your correct he’s up there with the best.
Other than that the only other player performing at play off levels is Anthony. The player you picked out to say shouldn’t be playing ahead of Koleosho.
Koleosho:
Goals and assists - 178th
Big chance creation - 186th
Expected goals -169th
Expected assist - 68th
Anthony:
Goals and assists - 62nd
Big chance creation - 91st
Expected goals - 40th
Expected assist - 26th
Sarmiento:
Goals and assists - 136th
Big chance creation - 176th
Expected goals - 91st
Expected assist -208th
Flemming:
Goals and assists - 122nd
Big chance creation - doesn’t even rank
Expected goals - 151
Expected assist - 206th
Play off levels is a stretch at those numbers.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 10:48 pmI’ve taken Brownhill out as your correct he’s up there with the best.
Other than that the only other player performing at play off levels is Anthony. The player you picked out to say shouldn’t be playing ahead of Koleosho.
Which is why, IMO, SP is to be commended.
Any other forward signed will suffer the same from playing in this system.
He also had better creative players behind the out and out number 9CoolClaret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 11:20 pmWhich is why, IMO, SP is to be commended.
Some may say it shows he can't coach attacking football, but he had Solanke and Mitrovic score 30 goals in this division - I just think it's because we don't have the quality and he's doing well with what we have.
Because he knows that's the only way we stay up there. Get this last game of a mammoth 2 weeks out of the way & focus on transfers. Jan is now here so I'd hope he & the rest of the staff involved in recruitment are going to be going all out to get our best targets. The system is fine, but up top we really have nothing. It worked for Fulham & Bournemouth strikers, why won't it here? It has done so far without those quality strikers. Imagine where we'd be with an Austin or Tella who could score.Mattster wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 11:29 pmAny other forward signed will suffer the same from playing in this system.
Yes, Parker coached Fulham/ Bournemouth to have 30 goal a season strikers but he's prioritising solidarity now, he's clearly developed the out of possession / defensive side of his coaching, probably from his shadowing of Tuchel between being sacked by Brugge and being hired by us, but can't marry that with creating quantity or quality of chances.
His current system favours defenders and neuters attackers.
If these are our top players, with those statistics, it would be nearly impossible for us to be 2ndNewcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 10:48 pmI’ve taken Brownhill out as your correct he’s up there with the best.
Other than that the only other player performing at play off levels is Anthony. The player you picked out to say shouldn’t be playing ahead of Koleosho.
Koleosho:
Goals and assists - 178th
Big chance creation - 186th
Expected goals -169th
Expected assist - 68th
Anthony:
Goals and assists - 62nd
Big chance creation - 91st
Expected goals - 40th
Expected assist - 26th
Sarmiento:
Goals and assists - 136th
Big chance creation - 176th
Expected goals - 91st
Expected assist -208th
Flemming:
Goals and assists - 122nd
Big chance creation - doesn’t even rank
Expected goals - 151
Expected assist - 206th
I didn’t include Brownhill because as expected he’s right up there with there the best.LincsWoldsClaret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 11:48 pmIf these are our top players, with those statistics, it would be nearly impossible for us to be 2nd
I tend to agree with Parker developing his OOP tactics, but still not sure on ‘neuters attackers’. Countless examples yesterday and against Boro where we get into great areas and waste it. Here are a few screenshots from just the first half at Boro.Mattster wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 11:29 pmAny other forward signed will suffer the same from playing in this system.
Yes, Parker coached Fulham/ Bournemouth to have 30 goal a season strikers but he's prioritising solidarity now, he's clearly developed the out of possession / defensive side of his coaching, probably from his shadowing of Tuchel between being sacked by Brugge and being hired by us, but can't marry that with creating quantity or quality of chances.
His current system favours defenders and neuters attackers.
I don’t think we use him in the right way. It’s possibly true that he’s lost a bit of pace following his injury, but he’s still quicker than your average Championship full back. What we fail to do is to get him to threaten the space in behind the full back. Too often his starting position is deep or 5-10 yards off the back line, which is comfortable for a low or mid block. He’s required to either play a simple lay off from there or to try and beat the full back (and sometimes a midfielder too) with skill. I’d love to see that mixed up a bit and for him to get right on the full back and be given balls in behind a bit more.claretspice wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 8:44 amAll of these things can be true, at the same time: 1- Koleosho has been disappointing this season (albeit relative to over-inflated expectations which were based on some performances that had the benefit of being an unknown quantity last season, and made insufficient allowance for the fact that he's now a very young and inexperienced kid who is a marked man before his age because he played in the Premier League, and is still getting back to his best after a very serious injury); 2 - all our attacking players have been disappointing in the main, so at least a contributing factor must be the way Parker is setting us up, particularly at home; 3 - for all that, he was our brightest attacking player yesterday, and did some good stuff; 4 - whilst he was good and promising yesterday, he was still frustrating on occasions.
I do though want to challenge this theory that Roberts was right not to trust Koleosho in possession. That implies that Roberts was giving him good ball to start with. That is not correct as I saw it, and I was right in line with most of their interplay in the first half. Just about every single pass Roberts played to Koleosho was underhit and that is not Koleosho's fault.
On most of those occasions Koleosho wanted the pass to be played with pace so he could face up his full back and try and beat him down the outside. When the pass was underhit and behind Koleosho, he had to check and retreat and that gave the full back (who did not have to check) an advantage. There are wide players who are good with their back to goal (think Scott Arfield, or Gudmundson), and you might use that as a tactic to drag a full back forwards and create space for someone to spin into. But Koleosho is not that sort of player - he is a player whose strength is carrying the ball forwards and using his pace to exploit space. He isn't good with his back to goal and it is an area where he needs to improve - but we have to play to his strengths too.
I'd be amazed if that was deliberate - you want others creating space for Koleosho to exploit, not the other way round. Indeed a couple of passes from both Roberts and Egan Riley got nowhere near Koleosho because they were cut out well in front of Koleosho. All of which leads me to conclude the problem was Roberts' weight of pass, not Koleosho. Given Roberts did appear to be getting frustrated with Koleosho, that smacked of a senior pro taking out his frustration unfairly on a young kid, which would be a concern.
1) 6 players ahead of the ball but 2 are running away from goal and 2 are static.
1) there’s still 6 players ahead and obviously you don’t want them all making the same movement, so some dropping off, some static and some running in behind sounds pretty fine. A better weighted pass and Laurent probably squares it for a high xG chance.Mattster wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 9:25 am1) 6 players ahead of the ball but 2 are running away from goal and 2 are static.
2) It's not an easy pass. But Cullen being the only player making an attacking run in the box doesn't speak to a functioning system of chance creation. Also worth noting that Anthony (and others) repeatedly taking low quality shots like this boosts his xG (at the expense of the team) which Newcastle is praising him for.
3) I've watched this one back and it's nothing like you represent it in your description or the screenshot.
Here is Humphreys first touch if he was to cross it first time. Which would be very hard to execute and nothing like the screenshot you put up in terms of attackers positioning.
Screenshot 2025-01-02 091124.png
Here is his next touch if that's what you meant.
Screenshot 2025-01-02 090841.png
Assuming it got past the first defender the rest of the defence have got both Flemming and Anthony crossing lanes blocked off in comparison to the screenshot you put up.
And again, hardly anyone in the box, despite the crosser being our left back. Hannibal and Brownhill nowhere to be seen despite supposed to be our most advanced midfielders.
4) We have 1 player in the box. Could he take up a better position? Yes. But ultimately Parker continues to choose to play Flemming out of position and this is the sort of thing that happens as a result. But since there's only 1 player in the box, if he takes up different position or makes a different run then so do the defenders. It's 1 player in the box that's the issue and this is something we see time and time again, so much so it must be a conscious choice by Parker.
I think your right, we are creating the chances and getting in the right areas on numerous occasions but it’s individual quality in the final third is letting us down.RVclaret wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 9:41 am1) there’s still 6 players ahead and obviously you don’t want them all making the same movement, so some dropping off, some static and some running in behind sounds pretty fine. A better weighted pass and Laurent probably squares it for a high xG chance.
2) okay not ‘easy’ (like his one for Brownhill’s big chance which happened to be a bobbler), but still a better player stays composed and plays it, there’s 2 chances, the screenshot I took through the gap or after another touch around the side, Cullen was clearly asking for it
3) Humphreys first touch was poor, a better one and the crossing chance is definitely on, to be fair he delivered a good one for Brownhill’s goal at Sheff, and this was a fairly similar position and situation!
4) it was a transitional move hence the other two were trying to catch up. Brownhill has been pretty good at actually getting in the box lately. Not absolutely identical but Foster’s goal against Spurs in the Prem where he ran right across the Spurs defence to tap in is the sort of simple movement needed there - in that case there was just Foster in the box.
4 decent enough openings there just off the top of my head, all coming from ‘patterns of play’. Second half Flemming decided to head one back to Brownhill when 1 on 1. He did the same yesterday chipping one to Sarmiento when they had a 2 on 1. It’s hardly Carrick-ball (Boro fans were getting sick of that after chucking away a 3 goal lead against Sheff Wed) but likewise I don’t feel it’s as ‘neutering attackers’. A bit more quality and composure needed, in my view.
The fact is we're bottom 6 for non-penalty xG and joint bottom for non-penalty xG per shot.
Agree, but this was mainly a problem of our own making with the mass exodus the week before. Not really sure why those deals weren't done earlier if we knew they wanted out.
I think there's both an element of it being the system, and it being what comes naturally to Koleosho. He's always had an instinct to want to drop off the full back and run at him, rather than behind him, and he's also tended to come inside off the right wing rather than attack the outside. He's never really made the sorts of instinctive runs that Tella made to receive a ball in behind or to stretch wide, and he doesn't attack the back post as he should either. Those are all things that as a young kid he needs to work on, but as we've said he's still very inexperienced.agreenwood wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 9:00 amI don’t think we use him in the right way. It’s possibly true that he’s lost a bit of pace following his injury, but he’s still quicker than your average Championship full back. What we fail to do is to get him to threaten the space in behind the full back. Too often his starting position is deep or 5-10 yards off the back line, which is comfortable for a low or mid block. He’s required to either play a simple lay off from there or to try and beat the full back (and sometimes a midfielder too) with skill. I’d love to see that mixed up a bit and for him to get right on the full back and be given balls in behind a bit more.
I don’t think the above is on Koleosho. He may not always execute very well, but I can’t believe he’s repeatedly defying his instructions by cutting back inside into traffic etc. It’s what he’s being asked to do and I don’t think it really utilises what he has the potential to be good at ie threatening with his pace a bit more and being direct.
It’s similar to Benson in the promotion season. He’s useless anywhere other than the final third and he struggled when we couldn’t get him on the ball high up the pitch. However, when we played to his strengths it was a joy to watch. I’m not comparing Benson and Koleosho’s skillset, just making the point that playing to someone’s strengths is key to turning a players season and form around.
It’s got to be down to he coaching staff Maatsen and Roberts always overlapped but Pires does it occasionally and that’s about it .claretspice wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 12:53 pmI think there's both an element of it being the system, and it being what comes naturally to Koleosho. He's always had an instinct to want to drop off the full back and run at him, rather than behind him, and he's also tended to come inside off the right wing rather than attack the outside. He's never really made the sorts of instinctive runs that Tella made to receive a ball in behind or to stretch wide, and he doesn't attack the back post as he should either. Those are all things that as a young kid he needs to work on, but as we've said he's still very inexperienced.
Yesterday, though, his runs weren't the problem. He was pointing for the ball outside regularly, and indeed shaping to make out to in runs directly in on goal, but either the ball never came or the pass forcedvhim backwards. Our build up was so slow and pedantic (or carelessly under hit) that it meant by the time Koleosho got the ball, the only places he could run were cul de sacs. It's far from the first time that has been a problem this season.